To everyone who is pro trump's wall....

Do you guy's understand the if approved the wall would take decades to build and that the next president easily cancel the project?

Most people already know that the wall isn't going to be built overnight. But at the same time, even if the president loses in 2020 and the next president signs an EO halting construction minutes after they are sworn in, that won't change the fact that almost two years worth of construction still took place.

Now, if the next administration wants to try and tear down what has already been built, they are going to have to defend that decision when they are trying to get reelected and their opponent is calling them weak on border security. Even though a lot of people don't want the wall, very few people are demanding that we tear down the sections of the wall that have already been in place for years.

So nice of the conservatives to like to waste money. They haven't been fiscally responsible in decades.

lol "easily"

Two years won't do much. It will take years just to build the roads needed for it.

@horgen: it will take longer than that just to aquire the rights to even make roads to the land.

Yup.

@ad1x2: nothing has not been built yet. Only prototypes. Try again.

I'm still loving the fact that they are all goal post moving once they found out it actually won't be concrete, that tall, or nearly as long as they once thought. Or even a wall, by definition. And that even if any of it starts.

So then why is this worth causing a partial shutdown over? It's either a end of the world, must take a stand to the very end no matter what or it's all for show. I don't care about the wall, whether it is built or not, because I do understand that it's a trivial matter when you get down to it. What isn't trivial is that some services for people's food might get disrupted. I'm not on food stamps but I do know what it's like to go hungry, so I do hope this hill is worth dying on for some of you.

@CreasianDevaili: blame trump for that. He vetoed the republicans bill to pay for the government before the new year. He said it homself this is his shutdown.

He can say what he wants but there are more people/entities/sides than just Trump and Co. I'm just saying if it's such a non issue why do you think it's worth a partial government shutdown over?

it's not really a "non-issue" politically speaking. and prior to the shutdown the Senate passed a CR (that included border security funding) but the House wouldn't bring it to a vote because the President wasn't going to sign it. Now, as I understand it, the House has passed that same CR sending it to the Senate, but Mitch McConnell won't bring it to a vote because the president wont sign it. So it would seem Trump is a bit of a sticking point, because he doesn't want to look like he's caving on a big component of his original campaign...and because Anne Coulter was mean on twitter

@CreasianDevaili: again. Ask trump . he is the cause of it.

Wall will never happen. Can’t wait until we move onto real problems.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/asians-now-outpace-mexicans-in-terms-of-undocumented-growth/432603/

So when do we start asking for a dome instead?

But we're all a player in the ring, regardless. We both agree trump is a big baby and is trying to get his way. Seemingly a larger amount of voters currently agree with that as well, so 2020 is a shoe in to get Trump out of office? So according to you he's being a dick with an issue that will be instantly reversed within two years, which means other than where the fence is already up not much will be changed.

So give him the wall if it's not a real threat. If it is a threat, then what was the point of saying it isn't one?

I know it's not a "non-issue". I'm just baffled by the threads such as these, and the news articles and segments, that all seem to bash their own heads against the wall. If something is worth causing so many to go without pay and cost those who get help with their food to do without said help, the last thing I'd wanna broadcast is that "it doesn't even matter!".

Seems batshit insane, to me.

lol. We all know why. (Racism against Mexicans fuels a lot of this).

I always wondered how a 100ft wall with 10ft thickness could be built 3000miles at a low price of only $20 billion. What about all the technology they have to deploy on this new wall? That can't be cheap...

Also, if trump were that serious about the wall, why didn't he add it to the first bill, the one he cut taxes for the billionaires, or in the military budget? Both of these happened before the midterms and trump could have gotten things done with the majority Republicans. Why is he going through this after the house flipped? Seeing how much Republicans wanted those tax cuts and that huge military bill, I think trump could have got his wall back then

It's worth the risk. I'm willing to take all risks to get that wall built and finished. I'll keep voting Republican if I have to. I abandoned the Democratic party in favor of the wall.

@tarnalia: well your made the wrong choice.

Most people are against this and voted in a Democrat majority congress knowing full well they are not going to vote this in. With no backing from Congress how is the wall going to be built?

@CreasianDevaili: again it's trump causing this. That and the republicans.

Think about it one moment, a veto can be over overrided with a 2/3 of congress voting for it. Congress can override trump stopping the government...but the McConnell is blocking the vote to happen so to not embarrass the president. He was also the same man who blocked the wall from being funded for the past 2 years.

And They are many republican Senators who want to start the government agein can because of the ass that leads the Senate and because of the ass in the oval office.

@horgen: Even if nothing gets built prior to 2020 due to logistic issues, my second paragraph addresses the parts of the wall/barrier that are already up, such as the part Jim Acosta showed in his video stating that we don’t need a wall. Despite the amount of people that don’t want a wall, tearing down what is already up will cost money, may not make Democrats look strong on border security, and may even bring more accusations of them being in favor of open borders.

I will say that if the president wants the wall so much he should have declared an emergency a long time ago instead of shutting down the government. Democrats would probably go to court to block it, but he would still use that to his advantage by saying he’s being blocked from fulfilling his campaign promises once again just like when the courts blocked him from getting rid of DACA and Congress blocked him from repealing the ACA.

Yeah and that's sort of the whole problem I have right now, is this "nothing-burger" issue--an issue that, in the past, would normally just be squabbled over for years--has actually shut down our government for a record-setting amount of time.

How fracking stupid are we and the people we elect?

I mean we squabbled for YEARS over Bill Clinton and his infidelity before it went fruitlessly to trial or whatever, but it didn't shut down the government at least!

And now they're one-upping each other by A.) suggesting we cancel the state of the union, and B.) in retaliation for said suggestion, canceling a publicly-funded summit trip to three countries for the opposing party.

FFS I graduated high school 16+ years ago and swore I'd never subject myself to that kind of needless nonsense drama again but here I am watching some of the oldest politicians in the world act like the cast of Mean Girls.

Swear to god we need to have like a public option of no-confidence in ALL OUR POLITICIANS so we can just start over. I'd be so happy to get rid of them all and get some actual humans in there.

It's a threat to the eco system and it increases spending at a time when he gifted his buddies less tax.....ie decreased revenue.

I see no point in tearing down the wall that is already there. I wouldn't oppose strengthening if there is a need for it as well. Sorry I meant fence.

You mean a democratic majority held House, Congress is both chambers and The Senate is Republican.

@HoolaHoopMan: The Simpsons did have Trump as president (or was it just a candidate), so maybe we get a dome like in the movie.

@Jacanuk: Dude . don't try. Most Senate seats open were from state majority republican. They were nevwr going to lose those seats. In the house the turn over rate was so bad They took 240 seats. Anyone who is pro trump or republican would never vote democrats in like that.

@ad1x2: again. None of the wall has not been built. It's legally impossible to build it now because thw ok from congress needs be given. All thay was built was prototypes.

What you are refering to are fence that were in place way before this wall nonsense came up.

None of the wall has been started to be built.

There are some people against the wall that actually believe we should tear down the fence that is already up. That was what I was talking about in regards to some Democrats possibly taking it a step further than simply halting construction of the wall if they retake power in 2021. We already have politicians that want to abolish ICE and don’t have a plan for assigning their duties to other agencies.

Like I said above, there are people against the wall that want what we already had up long before Trump took office torn down. It may not be a large amount of people, but there are out there and some of them are loud about it, with claims that it is immoral to keep it up. No borders, no walls isn’t just a slogan to put on a sign during an anti-Trump protest to them.

@ad1x2: dude No. No one is calling for taking down the fence. Hell, no democrat is for an open border.

Sorry but you have no ground on this.

And the issue against ice has vality to it.

Call them out on it. I'm pretty sure there are good numbers on showing the effect of the fence that is already there. It makes sense in densely populated areas. Just because one feel more at home in the left wing, doesn't mean you can't point out stupid things said and done by left wing.

The other side isn't running on a platform of tearing down existing fences. Quit manufacturing these stances in your head. There's always going to be someone out there that adheres to fringe ideas, but that has little bearing on the actual outcomes of the parties and what their platforms include.

Whoa there. The left platform is not open borders nor tearing down walls. In fact what passed the House had money for border security and a lot of it. No one is talking about tearing existing fencing down.

Just respond with far right ideas.

I could start compiling some Steve King quotes and label them 'The Republican Platform'. Hell, he's even a congressman.

ad1x2 maybe want them gone?

Go for it :P

Just remember that they must still abide the ToU here when you post them.

This guy was the deputy chair of the DNC last year and just got elected as the Minnesota Attorney General. If you don’t read Spanish, that shirt translates into “I don’t believe in borders.”

You can argue that the opinion is his alone and the vast majority of Democrats don’t believe the same thing and I will agree with you. However, when you are that high up the chain what you say can easily be reflected as the view of the party as a whole.

The reality is that there are some Democrats that want open borders no matter how fringe the opinion is among them at this time. It’s only an amount of time before some of them get elected to office if they haven’t been already.

Saying that people want to tear down what is already up may have been a little premature of me since it is hard to find examples that don’t belong to people that have no power to do so at this time through legal means. I will admit defeat on defending that point I made for now.

Bolded: Great, end of story then. So glad we can put this behind us.

@ad1x2: get it in your head that some does not equal all and it can only happen if a majority want it....you know how democracies and republics work.

@dreman999: @HoolaHoopMan: I was told by multiple posters that NO Democrat was calling for open borders and I counter by showing the former deputy chair of the DNC wearing a shirt calling for open borders. You can say that it isn’t a popular view among Democrats, but to say that nobody on the left believes in open borders is just as false as people saying that no one on the right believes that climate change is fake.

In a two party system, there will always be people with views in your party that you find undesirable. It's the nature of a big tent party in which the coalition government is made prior to the election rather than after.

I’ve said something similar to what you said and was called alt-right and other names as a result. The funny thing about everything from my point of view is I said several times on this forum I was against the wall and was still called those things.

The thing that made me actually want to see the wall go up? Last year when migrants from the caravan tried to rush the border and were stopped by border patrol agents firing tear gas. No, I don’t want the wall simply because it would stop the next attempt to rush the border. I wouldn’t mind seeing the wall built because when the agents used tear gas they were called every name in the book to include racist and many of those insults carried on to the White House. Don’t have to worry about being criticized for using tear gas if the wall stops them next time.

The point of my post that you quoted was to be a rebuttal to the numerous posters that claimed that there were zero Democrats that were in favor of open borders. While I acknowledge that it is a fringe position, the fact that I was able to find a photo of the former deputy chair of the DNC wearing a shirt calling for open borders makes the claim that no Democrats want open borders false.

To be fair, I automatically excluded far-left liberals and random people on social media with things like #resist in their profiles because they obviously wouldn’t be a representation of the Democratic party as a whole. But someone as high up as a senior member of the DNC should know that their opinion would automatically be applied to others in their party even if it is in reality their opinion alone.

@ad1x2: dude don't try to be coy you're going to look dumb. Getting one person out of a group and taking their fat person's extreme ideals and leave me for the entire group is not a coherent way to get consensus. You pulling one guy from the Democratic party that's okay for open borders like me pulling one person of the republic party who is an extreme racist and saying the entire party is racist.

We're going to go ahead and say this one more time so you can understand the Democratic party the majority of the Democratic Party does not want open borders. Being at the majority does not want it it would mean that the Democratic party does not want open borders. It does not matter if one or few of them wanted it the majority of the Democratic Party does not want it means that the Democratic party doesn't want it.

Stop trying to use that lame strawman excuse it just makes you dumb.

That's kind of my point, though - the person you photoed is a single chairman with a fringe view in a big tent party. And his view has no power or role in the party's policy efforts.

For an example of something similar this week from the opposing party see Steve King. Steve King has been pretty disgusting for a while, but I don't advocate voting against the Republican party because of his views - they won't be implemented and they're not a threat. I advocate voting against them because of the policies they're actually implementing/moving to implement, LOL.

I mean, if you want to vote against the Democrats because of this guy and his zero-chance-of-being-implemented policy that's fine, I guess. I just thought you had more legitimate reasons - ones I disagree with but are nonetheless actual factors in how we run the country.

@dreman999: Did I ever say that the majority of Democrats want open borders? I said some people want open borders, but apparently I said that the majority of them want it according to you.