The A.I in TLOU ruins the whole game.

#1 Posted by gajbutler (125 posts) -

Playing it on the PS4 and I'm constantly frustrated by the A.I, partly down to the dumb enemy A.I but more so the friendly, which is more unwelcome than RE5 tbh. I hate companion A.I in games because it very rarely works, more often than not ruins the game and tbh I wish TLOU was all solo.

So I'm playing the game on grounded with no hud and you have no clue where the A.I is.. well they follow the exact same pattern unless alerted, which they change that pattern but switch to another one. It is so inconsistent though, I can do the same thing after each time I die, sometimes the enemy will spot me and sometimes they wont, even though they are in the same position and everything. You get that weird noise that slowly gets louder to indicate they can see you, but that is so dumb, they should be able to spot me instantly, a guy running around 20ft from you should be instantly recognisable. Sometimes that doesn't go off though and they randomly just spot you... again inconsistent.

The other weird thing is the A.I path finding is broken, they'll constantly run into things, they'll run into walls, get tripped up on the environment and I think the animation priority breaks them, they over animate to the point they look un natural and like zig zag a lot. I had one guy who spotted me even though he shouldn't have done (again inconsistent) and while running down the stair case he was running into the wall and the rails constantly, turning around for no reason, doing circles.......... just looks so crap.

What is up with the clickers as well? They are meant to spot things like radar does, yet they are only alerted by sound? I'm sorry but that isn't how it works, they click, the sound comes back to them and they get a picture from that. So when you're moving around infront of them, they should spot you! The whole concept is broken, it doesn't work and it takes me out of the game..

Finally onto the friendly A.I........... they are annoying, by the time I'm done with each combat/stealth section, I'm so pissed off by them that I don't care, I want to kill them off so I can play alone. They've killed any empathy I have for them, the story is dead to me now, not invested in it as a result of how annoying they are.

Frigging to have them constantly running like a spaz around the place, just needlessly running around and again they just over animate, it doesn't look realistic. It reminds me of when you see a soldier run in the latest BF games, a weird weightless animation, it is hard to put my finger on it, just something wrong with them.

They're always running into me, getting in my way, breaking my immersion by running into the enemy and being so loud. On grounded mode one hit and you're dead, to have them get in my way in a desperate time is so annoying, I constantly get shot or alert an enemy cause I cannot get out of the way as they're there. GRRRRRRRRRRRR!

They don't do anything either, if an NPC walks up behind me, they don't alert me even if they can clearly see it coming. If I'm in a combat situation they wont do the logical thing and shoot the enemy or whatever. No the best I'll get is they run up, punch the enemy, they'll then stand there and wait for me to shoot, the enemy ignores them...... like wtf? It all looks retarded, the A.I acts retarded.. probably the worst A.I I've experienced in years and I cannot believe they didn't bother to fix it in this so called remastered edition.

I cannot believe this won so many awards

#2 Posted by SoNin360 (5438 posts) -

I don't think it's nearly as bad as you're trying to make it out to be. The AI isn't state-of-the-art or anything, but overall I thought it was quite good. Friendlies don't get in the way too often, and they made the right decision by making it so they won't give away your position. Only rarely do they get so close to an enemy that the enemy should have spotted them. Maybe enemies do generally move in the same paths, but once you're spotted I think it's pretty impressive as to how tactfully they move around. They'll flank you, move cover to cover, and so forth.

I could try to address many of your other points, but I honestly don't feel like it. It just sounds like you're just very frustrated from playing on Grounded Mode. I didn't really have any complaints after playing the game on Normal and then Survivor. Comparatively, I would say the AI is better than most games out there. We aren't at a point where AI can be considered very realistic, but I still felt this game made me think carefully about my movements and try to figure out what the AI would do.

#3 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (11514 posts) -

@SoNin360

Well mastering a flawed system doesn't make it any less flawed. I experienced exactly what he's talking about and I wasn't even playing it on Grounded, I was on Survival Mode...

Now look, when the AI is in its Alerted/search state, they don't tactfully hunt you down.... They all simply move towards you at the same time, like they know exactly where you are until they eventually stumble across you. Which wouldn't be an issue if they would respond when I throw a brick or bottle to get them to move away, they're behavior is completely inconsistant, maybe they'l check it out, maybe they wont, its far too unreliable to gamble with such a limited resources, speaking of which, theres this one scene in a bar with bottles all over the counter that you can't pick up but if you knock one over, it will alert the enemies. this one scene has these 3 AIs standing in a group having a conversation (it was just outside a bookshop) so I fire one arrow into one of their heads, and you know the other two did ? They just walk away, they' didn't change states or anything they witness their collegue get impaled in the eye by an arrow so they just decide to walk away casually, and it wasn't a one time thing, It literally always happens, inside the book shop, when I go upstairs, They all Go Up Stairs, when go Down stairs they all go there too, The AI is not, clever, not even alil bit, thall just follow you "subconsiously" untill you get spotted. Trying to outsmart them is like trying to fool a retard, they're just too dumb to fall for an elaborate strategy.

Don't even get me started on the Infected they were never particular interesting to begin with, Survival Mode only made them worse.

#4 Posted by gajbutler (125 posts) -

I can stand outside a building and throw a brick on the street, they hear it and react but their path finding doesn't let them leave the building, they just stand in one spot and comment; yet if I threw it inside the building, they would do a search...

This game is terrible.

#5 Posted by MethodManFTW (25657 posts) -

I liked it a ton, but yeah, if you don't like it, don't waste your time playing.

#6 Posted by Fred_Flatulence (50 posts) -

It was a quite distracting during the graveyard bit. Bill literally bumping into a clicker & his loud footsteps..

#7 Posted by coasterguy65 (5922 posts) -

The enemy AI is really stupid in the game. I've sat there and just watched enemy AI run past me, and even had them crouch down beside me hiding behind the same barrier....yet not even act like I am there. I still remember the one part where you are sneaking through a warehouse and there are catwalks on the second floor. I watched on of the guards run around the catwalks over and over. Passing me buy numerous times.

Of course the AI was pretty stupid in Uncharted 3 also. So I guess it shouldn't have been much of a surprise.

Sure the friendly AI is pretty stupid also, but at least you aren't penalized when Ellie runs up to enemies.

#8 Edited by yokofox33 (29516 posts) -

One of the numerous reasons I stopped playing the game. Didn't like it.

#9 Posted by SolidTy (42796 posts) -

I got a Platinum in The Last of Us game and I had no trouble. Bummer dude.

To get the Platinum, you have to beat the game four times, twice on the hardest settings at the time.

It should be noted however that I have a long and storied game history and I've played thousands of games on the hardest settings so I'm sure my standards and experiences are very different than you. Good luck.

#10 Posted by RicanV (144 posts) -

Why did you have to beat the game four times?

#11 Edited by SolidTy (42796 posts) -

SolidTy (QUOTED MYSELF FROM ABOVE): I got a Platinum in The Last of Us game and I had no trouble. Bummer dude.

To get the Platinum, you have to beat the game four times, twice on the hardest settings at the time.

It should be noted however that I have a long and storied game history and I've played thousands of games on the hardest settings so I'm sure my standards and experiences are very different than you. Good luck.

@RicanV said:

Why did you have to beat the game four times?

You have 91 posts. Incredible. You became a moderator after demonstrating 91 posts to the people up stairs...bravo my man. I've been here since 2005 and that's the lowest count I've seen yet for any moderator. It says you only joined in Nov 2011 as well, basically 2012 and 2013 were your years to shine. Impressive.

On with the answer though.

I assume you are talking to me, yah about beating it four times?

If you want the Platinum, and that's a big IF, then Naughty Dog has it set up for you to beat it four times to get that e-reward. I did it in a competition with RL friends. We decided on it before the game even released. It turned out it was a tougher Platinum which made it sweeter as some of those RL friends opted out.

The Trophy was beat it hard and you unlock Hard+. You beat Hard+ and then you unlock the Survivor difficulty and then you have to beat that and Survivor+. Required to get the Platinum. If you could play Survivor without unlocking it, then you would only have to beat the game twice. Once on Survivor and once on Survivor+. The Plus modes are harder but you keep your upgrades from the previous non-plus part of the game.

You can also unlock Survivor by beating it on Normal, but you still have to beat Normal+ as well. Either way you have to beat it twice on whatever setting to unlock Survivor and beat that twice with Survivor Plus.

There was things to collect and other stuff too. A lot to collect and upgrade actually (comics and conversations and upgrades and stuff) It was a tough little Platinum in comparison to what I expected from Uncharted 1-3 (I Platted those too).

I hope that answers it. I didn't get the Platinum recently, it was awhile back, but that's what I recall anyways. If you remember something or you got the Platinum a different way, please share. I don't remember everything I did as it feels long ago as I've played A LOT of games since then getting the TLOU Platinum.. :)

This process worked for me and I got the Platinum. I'm one of the few on my FR that did it which was cool.

#12 Edited by Fred_Flatulence (50 posts) -

I seem to notice fanboyism for this game here isn't anywhere near as bad as IGN. If you dare to dislike the game, your comments or threads will get removed..

#13 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (11514 posts) -

@RicanV

The Last Of Us also has a progression System That Can't be maxed out in a single playthrough and your progression doesn't not carry across difficulties, that means if you play on a different difficulty you lose all you upgrades and have to start all over.

More importantly, The Highger the difficulty you play on, the more times you might have to have to replay the game to get all the upgrades, this is due to the stupid gameplay plus artificially ramping up the difficulty by cutting resources, which makes clearing areas next to impossible which means you'l be leaving alot of upgrades behind, and the more upgrades you miss, the more times you might have to go through certain areas without finding all the upgrades because of the limited resouces, and the cycle will continue you like that all the way through the the game.

#14 Edited by thegamingjunkie (232 posts) -

NVM ~~~

Meh, it was fine for me. Agreed with @SoNin360

#15 Edited by SolidTy (42796 posts) -

@thegamingjunkie said:

@RicanV said:

Why did you have to beat the game four times?

No one said anyone had to do anything...

I'm puzzled by your repeated quote chain since I answered the question above? :(

I can only assume you want me to focus on the "WHY" I did played TLOU and got the Platinum? I did it for fun firstly.

When it comes to entertainment, no one has to do anything in this life.

Different strokes for different folks.

I never said I had to beat the TLOU four times. I didn't have to do it. I never said I did "have" to do it.

I simply said I got the Platinum and I described how to get the Platinum. If one desires that virtual no-prize, I laid out steps on how to accomplish it. I took his question on why I beat the game four times and answered it as to how one would go about getting a Platinum in TLOU.

If he is asking why I wanted the Platinum? Or if you are insinuating that question? I can answer "why". I got the Platinum in TLOU for fun as I enjoyed the game and I liked the idea of getting a Platinum in this particular game. It seemed like a cool game to Platinum.

I had some friends that wanted the Platinum TLOU prior to the game's release. We all tried to do it, and I set myself to getting this Plat, so my answer simply is friendly competition with RL friends. Something to talk with about each other among other topics.

Finally, why did you want to know and quote the above user about the TLOU Platinum? Are you trying for the TLOU Platinum yourself? I can relate to that, it was a tough one to get.

Happy Gaming, gamingjunkie! :)

#16 Edited by thegamingjunkie (232 posts) -

@SolidTy: LMFAO my apologies, I thought that dude was adressing the question to the dude that created this thread.

#17 Edited by thegamingjunkie (232 posts) -

@SolidTy: LMFAO my apologies, I thought that dude was adressing the question to the dude that created this thread. I wasn't aware you said that you beat it 4 times. I merely thought the dude that had problems with this game was the one that beated it 4 times plus, his question gave me a laugh.

#18 Edited by SolidTy (42796 posts) -

@thegamingjunkie said:

@SolidTy: LMFAO my apologies, I thought that dude was adressing the question to the dude that created this thread. I wasn't aware you said that you beat it 4 times. I merely thought the dude that had problems with this game was the one that beated it 4 times plus, his question gave me a laugh.

Oh lordy...I understand. It's all good! :P

#19 Posted by thegamingjunkie (232 posts) -
#20 Edited by SoNin360 (5438 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: Okay you make your case and feel very strongly about it, it seems. But I just didn't have any real problems with it. As I've said, games just aren't at a point where AI is going to be consistently amazing. I'd love some examples of good AI games. Because AI, especially when it comes to being "spotted", is almost never going to be entirely consistent. I still feel I was fighting fairly smart enemies. I don't remember them being completely oblivious if I killed a guy they were looking straight at or anything. And yeah, they do kind of just close in on you when they are alerted to your presence, but generally they do move cover-to-cover and flank you if possible.

#21 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (11514 posts) -

@SoNin360

Thats all I wanted.... For people to acknowledge that there were some issues.... Its really frustrating when I'm clearly struggling against something and people just don't see it.

Heres another interesting thing.... Obviously enemies have zones that they just can't cross, so throw a brick at a wall outside their zone and they won't coss that zone to investigate it, but getting spotted will make them get out their comfort zones... I can't tell yh just how many bricks and bottles I've lost to silly design flaws like this. :p

#22 Edited by SolidTy (42796 posts) -

@SoNin360 said:

@Lulu_Lulu: Okay you make your case and feel very strongly about it, it seems. But I just didn't have any real problems with it. As I've said, games just aren't at a point where AI is going to be consistently amazing.

I'd love some examples of good AI games.

Because AI, especially when it comes to being "spotted", is almost never going to be entirely consistent. I still feel I was fighting fairly smart enemies. I don't remember them being completely oblivious if I killed a guy they were looking straight at or anything. And yeah, they do kind of just close in on you when they are alerted to your presence, but generally they do move cover-to-cover and flank you if possible.

Yeah, this.

#23 Posted by porkchopxp (1153 posts) -

I can stand outside a building and throw a brick on the street, they hear it and react but their path finding doesn't let them leave the building, they just stand in one spot and comment; yet if I threw it inside the building, they would do a search...

This game is terrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

Sorry you didn't enjoy the game, you want hug?

#24 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (11514 posts) -

@SoNin360

BTW... the only AI thats ever really impressed me are those Chatter Box Application they use to make. Those where awesome !

#25 Edited by Notorious1234NA (510 posts) -

Well um most A.I. isn't um smart?

Think maybe too critical.

Every A.I. is robotic in its movements has a fixed pattern and that applies to Seth from SF4 as well.

#26 Posted by veggie530 (2872 posts) -

*shrug*

I enjoyed it. To each their own!

#27 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (11514 posts) -

@Notorious1234NA

Nope... Seth just Cheats !

#28 Edited by SaintSatan (685 posts) -

@gajbutler:

@gajbutler said:

Playing it on the PS4 and I'm constantly frustrated by the A.I, partly down to the dumb enemy A.I but more so the friendly, which is more unwelcome than RE5 tbh.

Worse than RE5? HAHAH REALLY?

I don't think we played the same game. Your game must be bugged or something. I only encountered bad friendly AI like twice or three times max throughout my play through and it made up about .00001% of the entire experience. As far as enemy AI the only time it was truly bad was when they were on stairs, which happened twice iirc.

#29 Posted by pyro1245 (745 posts) -

Need more shivs!

#30 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (11514 posts) -

@pyro1245

Shivs ? Man, even the Bricks and Bottles are scarce.

#31 Posted by bezza2011 (2408 posts) -

I honestly don't think it's as bad as people are making out and any games A.I can be nicked picked down to there path finders, end of the day the PS3 was limited and it's about making choices, I didn't find that the A.I took away from enjoyment of the game at all, and Ellie is probably the best A.I side-kick i've ever had in a game, I mean she actually kills enemies for once, in most other games there just there to keep the story going in cut scenes, and I never found that, she was in many positions to be spotted and they even said they had to make it so the enemies couldn't see her because the A.I wasn't up to the level they could achieve on the PS3, so it just made sense to keep the game flowing, the controls and gameplay are solid and the story is amazing, I've seen far worse A.I in games before this one, i'm not saying it's great but A.I is really young at this sort of level, at least they flank and cover unlike alot of games which get praised and no one comments about there A.I

#32 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (11514 posts) -

@bezza2011

You're right... Its not bad at all.... But cows think its the best thing ever, so it does need to get put in its place.

#33 Edited by ewalthour (684 posts) -

I have ragged on the remaster on this forum but the AI is pretty good. Anyone that has a problem thinking the partner characte rd get I'm the way probably aren't very good at playing videogames.

#34 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (11514 posts) -

@ewalthour

"I can do it therefor the game is perfect" Thats a summary of you logic. And its twisted.

#35 Posted by Fred_Flatulence (50 posts) -

I equate the AI in this game to my flatus

#36 Posted by yixingtpot (1398 posts) -

if the AI is so stupid then it should be easier to beat it on the hardest setting, it's a game... flawed and all it will never equate to reality. In reality you would have some stupid people, most are stupid.

#37 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (11514 posts) -

@yixingtpot

Its AI's simplicity that makes the game so hard. Especially when it comes to the infected.

#38 Edited by _Judas_ (721 posts) -

This is unfortunate for the thread starter. I've no quarrels with the A.I and I believe it works just like any other third-person shooter game, at times even better.

It is said that Naughty Dog decided to drop the fact that enemies react to Ellie because of reasons (don't remember), and yes, I agree that this sometimes create unfortunate episodes where Ellie is seen crashing into scavengers and even pushing Clickers away while scattering behind cover. I guess it could've worked better if you could give Ellie commands like "stay here!" or "follow me" and simple stuff like that. I remember one game, but sorry to say not the name of said game, where the friendly A.I was placed behind a cover that the enemies never came across.

I've only had great experiences with the A.I. The fact that the enemies should spot you immediately when spotted is something I have pondered over, and some games does this but they also get trashed for being unfair(Oblivion, is one I remember). The reason for the sound or noise is to make it easier I would assume. One has to understand that a healthy human being should be able to see across 50 feet area of room and easily spot a crouching man running to safety, right? Right!

This A.I and stealth system is something that can easily be enhanced. What TLOU does right, is that when you are spotted, they don't "forget" you, like they do in (some) other games. There is a funny video on YouTube showing an animation of an episode in Skyrim; a guard gets shot in the back, turns around and yells "Who's there". After 5 seconds of "looking around" he concludes ; "Hmph, must have been the wind"... lol

The A.I in games is difficult to get perfect. I agree on some of your points: when one is spotted, one is spotted. You never partially spot someone, BUT you can be uncertain what you saw. If you ever played Paintball or Softgun battles, you understand how easily you can get sidetracked by "something you saw", especially in large, woodland scenarios.

The A.I is very impressive none the less. If you dry-fire your weapon (no bullets left), the enemies behind cover will stand up and utter a cocky statement ("haha, he's empty" , "hear that? Go and get him"), which gives you the oppertunity to switch weapon and pop them. They will also coordinate amongst themselves regarding your weapon choice ("He's got a rifle! Flank him!" , "Run up and grab him!" etc .etc. ).

I'm sorry to hear that you're so disappointed, I am very happy with the GAMEPLAY of this fantastic experience that is The Last of Us.

#39 Edited by ooole (26 posts) -

@yixingtpot:

That makes no sense, just because a game is hard it doesn't mean it has a good AI or vice versa.

The BS excuse of all games have bad AI is false... First, there are games from the 90's with better stealth gameplay and better AI than TLOU. Second, even if all games had bad AI it wouldn't be an excuse, specially when you have people claiming this to be the best game of all time.