Why did Max Payne 2 sell so badly? (56K Haters warning, stay awayy!!)

A great game, better than its predecessor, it received some strong reviews so what went wrong?

The only thing I think might have strayed people from it was all the talk about the length of the game - 6 hours some said with no Multiplayer.

I've no idea but my friend told me that it doesn't look so different from the original.thusaha

Cutscenes looks better, more motion blur effects. Surely the graphics wouldn't be the reason. They were excellent!

We have to solve one of gamings great mysteries. It is like our version of the DaVinci Code!

Probably because it was too short, too easy and the storyline was not as captivating as in the first game.spierdalaj666

Agreed. I find it funny that I just started to play it again for PC. Im like half way done with it. I guess I wanted to see how off the max payne movie was. It was way off with a lot of stuff and didnt dive into the real inner demons max was facing when his family was killed.

Appeal? Perhaps?

You know, cop drama, comic-book style story presentation, "a film noir love story", 3rd person, etc. It all sounds like a fairly dull mix to be honest. It's definitely not the type of game I would normally follow with great interest, or be at the top of my wish list.

Of course, if the original Max Payne outsold the sequel considerably, then appeal likely didn't have as much to do with it. Fortunately, the appeal from the initial outset for me anyway is rather misplaced because these are terrific games!!! ;)

Probably because it was too short, too easy and the storyline was not as captivating as in the first game.spierdalaj666

I disagreed with all of that. Be gone.

I think it was because the game play was the same as the game play in the first one. On top of that the gameplay was never very good or interesting. Bullet time was a neat concept but the gun play never really worked that well.

People played the game for the story, the atmosphere and the novelty of it. There novelty was gone in the second game. The atmosphere was the same, the story had some new twists but was the same type and style.

Overall Max Payne for all the good elements was a game that grew old very quickly. I think people already had enough max payne to fill them up by the time the second one arrived.

I think it was because the game play was the same as the game play in the first one. On top of that the gameplay was never very good or interesting. Bullet time was a neat concept but the gun play never really worked that well.

Mazoch

Thats just blatantly wrong. If it wasn't good or interesting then the games together wouldn't have sold 7 million units and other games (ironically in particular The Matrix game) wouldn't have tried to copy the formula and style of Max Payne.

Few Third Person games possess the style and precision of Max Payne.

People played the game for the story, the atmosphere and the novelty of it. There novelty was gone in the second game. The atmosphere was the same, the story had some new twists but was the same type and style.

Overall Max Payne for all the good elements was a game that grew old very quickly. I think people already had enough max payne to fill them up by the time the second one arrived.

Mazoch

If that were the case then people wouldn't be rushing out to buy the likes of Halo 2 and GEOW.

I wouldn't regard any of the elements of Max Payne as novel either...

Actually Max Payne 1 & 2 are my favourite games.Back then i remember Rockstar stating something about piracy.But I'm not so sure though.Maybe a little more advertising was required.biltros

I think thats probably more likely. The second game came out a lot sooner than people thought - 2 years, whereas the first game took 5 years to make.

A great game, better than its predecessor, it received some strong reviews so what went wrong?

The only thing I think might have strayed people from it was all the talk about the length of the game - 6 hours some said with no Multiplayer.

biggest_loser

i enjoyed max payne 2. but only because i had not played max payne 1 (although i played the demo) or anything so this was a new type of gameplay, however most people who would go to buy max payne 2 might well have played the original, and the gameplay is near IDENTICAL to the first, the differences (shootdodge doesnt take up stuff/energy/bullet time whatever, bullet time gets marginally slower, cinematic kills which isnt even gameplay. thats all the ones i can think of) are minimal and pointless.

the sequel to a great game (or so i have heard) deserves better play, its the same freaking game with a neat touch or two and better graphics!

how can anyone really expect it to sell well??

i cannot comment on the story because

1. i dont know what it is from the original, just a tale of revenge it seems

2. the story in the mp2 confused the hell out of me (this may not have been a common problem, but i take a long time playing games, taking breaks in between and such so maybe this is why i found it difficult to keep up)

If it wasn't good or interesting then the games together wouldn't have sold 7 million units and other games (ironically in particular The Matrix game) wouldn't have tried to copy the formula and style of Max Payne.biggest_loser

7 million, that's impressive and wouldn't have guessed it. Any idea of the breakdown, in particular on the PC-side of sales? It really is mysterious if there was a steep drop after the original.

[QUOTE="thusaha"]I've no idea but my friend told me that it doesn't look so different from the original.biggest_loser

Cutscenes looks better, more motion blur effects. Surely the graphics wouldn't be the reason. They were excellent!

We have to solve one of gamings great mysteries. It is like our version of the DaVinci Code!

Same like with the No One Lives forever series.

Some great game series just stops because some people would rather play generic stuff like Halo.

Personally, i consider Stranglehold to be a kind of Max Payne 3. Sure it dosnt have the dark themes, but i enjoyed the gameplay as much as Max Payne, so when we dont have a new max payne game then Stranglehold is a fine substitute.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"] If it wasn't good or interesting then the games together wouldn't have sold 7 million units and other games (ironically in particular The Matrix game) wouldn't have tried to copy the formula and style of Max Payne.Nitrous2O

7 million, that's impressive and wouldn't have guessed it. Any idea of the breakdown, in particular on the PC-side of sales? It really is mysterious if there was a steep drop after the original.

I just read that in the newspaper during a review of that movie with Mark Wahlberg of the same name *cough*

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"]Probably because it was too short, too easy and the storyline was not as captivating as in the first game.biggest_loser

I disagreed with all of that. Be gone.

i played max payne one on pc, and max payne two on xbox.

so that may have had something to do with it...

I was reffering to your comment "...a review of that movie with Mark Wahlberg of the same name...".Actually i agree with your review of the movie.A little off-topic but Ludacris playing Bravura??Anyway...biltros

Yes I realised eventually which was why I deleted that comment.

I'm glad you agree with the review. Thank you. That film was just a cash in on the brand name.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"]Probably because it was too short, too easy and the storyline was not as captivating as in the first game.Lach0121

I disagreed with all of that. Be gone.

i played max payne one on pc, and max payne two on xbox.

so that may have had something to do with it...

Yes try playing the PC version. I guess its a little late now though.

Why wouldn't you get it on PC?

[QUOTE="Lach0121"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"]Probably because it was too short, too easy and the storyline was not as captivating as in the first game.biggest_loser

I disagreed with all of that. Be gone.

i played max payne one on pc, and max payne two on xbox.

so that may have had something to do with it...

Yes try playing the PC version. I guess its a little late now though.

Why wouldn't you get it on PC?

i mean i can always get it cheap off of amazon.com... i mean it isnt that old.... duke nukem 3d yeah thats kinda old.

and the max payne movie wasnt really all that good, not to me, mark did ok as max, its just the movie seemed a little watered down compared to the games.

[QUOTE="biltros"]I was reffering to your comment "...a review of that movie with Mark Wahlberg of the same name...".Actually i agree with your review of the movie.A little off-topic but Ludacris playing Bravura??Anyway...biggest_loser

Yes I realised eventually which was why I deleted that comment.

I'm glad you agree with the review. Thank you. That film was just a cash in on the brand name.

And a pretty bad one at that too actually.

Max Payne was some great games, but not many people know of the games.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="biltros"]I was reffering to your comment "...a review of that movie with Mark Wahlberg of the same name...".Actually i agree with your review of the movie.A little off-topic but Ludacris playing Bravura??Anyway...mimic-Denmark

Yes I realised eventually which was why I deleted that comment.

I'm glad you agree with the review. Thank you. That film was just a cash in on the brand name.

And a pretty bad one at that too actually.

Max Payne was some great games, but not many people know of the games.

7 million people do.

[QUOTE="mimic-Denmark"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="biltros"]I was reffering to your comment "...a review of that movie with Mark Wahlberg of the same name...".Actually i agree with your review of the movie.A little off-topic but Ludacris playing Bravura??Anyway...biggest_loser

Yes I realised eventually which was why I deleted that comment.

I'm glad you agree with the review. Thank you. That film was just a cash in on the brand name.

And a pretty bad one at that too actually.

Max Payne was some great games, but not many people know of the games.

7 million people do.

That number should be much higher based on the quality of those games.

Imagine the movie was called halo :)

maybe some new console came out and people abandoned the pc and lost out on max payne 2.crazyfist36

It was released on Xbox and Playstation 2 as well.

*Taps crazyfist36 on shoulder*

Excuse me sir, ahem, yes I believe JokeSchool1004 is just down the far corridor. Yes that way. Right down there.

I just finished playing both of them (again) and I have to say that the 2nd is not as good (in translation: I don't like it as much) as the first game. Reasons:

-In MP1 you could follow your track on the news, on TV or radio, who you killed and so on. That was a neat feature and I was always looking forward to the next breaking news. ("Max Payne at large")

-In the first the atmosphere is more "noir"-like, probably because they left the comic strips in black-white, and did not add the blue and other colors like in MP2.

-Humor in MP1 was original and more conservatory, not ruining the overall noir atmosphere (scattered pieces like the Captain Baseball-bat Boy, or the moment when he had one of his dream sequences and the mesages on the table said: Max, you're in a comic book strip or Max, you're in a videogame | I ROFLed every time when I saw this, you have to see it to understand) Though, MP2 has it's funny moments, mainly with the TV shows (Lords and Ladies, Adress Unknown, Captain Dick something...; by the way I've seen them all), but it's more like their trying to copy those memorable moments from the first one.

-Mona Sax looks like a whore. Well, this is about tastes, mainly, but I didn't understand how you can get in love with such a person. Also made me hate Max Payne himself, betraying his wife... How could he?! I mean the developers made the game solely on this relation (Sax-Payne), gets kind of boring with time how he's always searching her for answers and all.

-In the second there were no V addicts or occult elements, and thw world is pretty generic. Also Mafia has a small role - not so good for a noir game.

Generally speaking the games are both great. The difference is that MP2 is closer to what we'd call a commercial product and MP1 - an artistic product.Gameplay is practicaly identical, with minor tweaks in the 2nd.

I just finished playing both of them (again) and I have to say that the 2nd is not as good (in translation: I don't like it as much) as the first game. Reasons:

-In MP1 you could follow your track on the news, on TV or radio, who you killed and so on. That was a neat feature and I was always looking forward to the next breaking news. ("Max Payne at large")

-In the first the atmosphere is more "noir"-like, probably because they left the comic strips in black-white, and did not add the blue and other colors like in MP2.

-Humor in MP1 was original and more conservatory, not ruining the overall noir atmosphere (scattered pieces like the Captain Baseball-bat Boy, or the moment when he had one of his dream sequences and the mesages on the table said: Max, you're in a comic book strip or Max, you're in a videogame | I ROFLed every time when I saw this, you have to see it to understand) Though, MP2 has it's funny moments, mainly with the TV shows (Lords and Ladies, Adress Unknown, Captain Dick something...; by the way I've seen them all), but it's more like their trying to copy those memorable moments from the first one.

-Mona Sax looks like a whore. Well, this is about tastes, mainly, but I didn't understand how you can get in love with such a person. Also made me hate Max Payne himself, betraying his wife... How could he?! I mean the developers made the game solely on this relation (Sax-Payne), gets kind of boring with time how he's always searching her for answers and all.

-In the second there were no V addicts or occult elements, and thw world is pretty generic. Also Mafia has a small role - not so good for a noir game.

Generally speaking the games are both great. The difference is that MP2 is closer to what we'd call a commercial product and MP1 - an artistic product.Gameplay is practicaly identical, with minor tweaks in the 2nd.

regnumekal

I just finished playing both of them (again) and I have to say that the 2nd is not as good (in translation: I don't like it as much) as the first game. Reasons:

-In MP1 you could follow your track on the news, on TV or radio, who you killed and so on. That was a neat feature and I was always looking forward to the next breaking news. ("Max Payne at large")

regnumekal

MP2 used a similar device in that the TV shows represented what was happening in the game, like the Soap Opera showing the characters betrayling one another, etc.

-In the first the atmosphere is more "noir"-like, probably because they left the comic strips in black-white, and did not add the blue and other colors like in MP2.

regnumekal

MP2 is just as Noir but it takes a different angle. Where the first game was a revenge story, MP2 focuses mostly on the Femme Fatale convention of Noir through Mona Sax. Love stories are rarely touched upon in games and when they are it normally involves D Cups. At least this was much more mature.

-Humor in MP1 was original and more conservatory, not ruining the overall noir atmosphere (scattered pieces like the Captain Baseball-bat Boy, or the moment when he had one of his dream sequences and the mesages on the table said: Max, you're in a comic book strip or Max, you're in a videogame | I ROFLed every time when I saw this, you have to see it to understand) Though, MP2 has it's funny moments, mainly with the TV shows (Lords and Ladies, Adress Unknown, Captain Dick something...; by the way I've seen them all), but it's more like their trying to copy those memorable moments from the first one.

regnumekal

I don't think it recycles jokes. I already explained what I thought about the purpose of the TV shows this time around.

-Mona Sax looks like a whore. Well, this is about tastes, mainly, but I didn't understand how you can get in love with such a person. Also made me hate Max Payne himself, betraying his wife... How could he?! I mean the developers made the game solely on this relation (Sax-Payne), gets kind of boring with time how he's always searching her for answers and all.

regnumekal

I think he loves her because he knows what she feels. He doesn't have that with anyone else in his life. Mona's sister Lisa was murdered and he reflects on that saying:

"I couldn't tell whether it was Mona or her sister, the
           body was a mess. The sick bastard had really gotten a
           kick out of it. Seeing her lying there got me thinking
           about another woman's body on another bed. Got me
           thinking about a fallen cradle."

They know each others pain. But I also think its the temptation for a cop to be on the other side of the law etc. 

-In the second there were no V addicts or occult elements, and thw world is pretty generic. Also Mafia has a small role - not so good for a noir game.

Why would there be? V is dead. Its all about the Mafia really.

Who do you think attacks the restaurant? Vlads ties to the mob. The Cleaners are essentially gangsters.

[QUOTE="regnumekal"]

The difference is that MP2 is closer to what we'd call a commercial product and MP1 - an artistic product.Gameplay is practicaly identical, with minor tweaks in the 2nd.

regnumekal

I don't know what you mean by that. I really don't. A commerical product? I'm pretty sure MP1 actually got more hype and adveritising than MP2...so yeah...I think that sounds like something you just made up....maybe?

The tweaks to bullet time make a huge difference to how you play from the first game IMO.

I just finished playing both of them (again) and I have to say that the 2nd is not as good (in translation: I don't like it as much) as the first game. Reasons:

-In MP1 you could follow your track on the news, on TV or radio, who you killed and so on. That was a neat feature and I was always looking forward to the next breaking news. ("Max Payne at large")

regnumekal

MP2 used a similar device in that the TV shows represented what was happening in the game, like the Soap Opera showing the characters betrayling one another, etc.

-In the first the atmosphere is more "noir"-like, probably because they left the comic strips in black-white, and did not add the blue and other colors like in MP2.

regnumekal

MP2 is just as Noir but it takes a different angle. Where the first game was a revenge story, MP2 focuses mostly on the Femme Fatale convention of Noir through Mona Sax. Love stories are rarely touched upon in games and when they are it normally involves D Cups. At least this was much more mature.

-Humor in MP1 was original and more conservatory, not ruining the overall noir atmosphere (scattered pieces like the Captain Baseball-bat Boy, or the moment when he had one of his dream sequences and the mesages on the table said: Max, you're in a comic book strip or Max, you're in a videogame | I ROFLed every time when I saw this, you have to see it to understand) Though, MP2 has it's funny moments, mainly with the TV shows (Lords and Ladies, Adress Unknown, Captain Dick something...; by the way I've seen them all), but it's more like their trying to copy those memorable moments from the first one.

regnumekal

I don't think it recycles jokes. I already explained what I thought about the purpose of the TV shows this time around.

-Mona Sax looks like a whore. Well, this is about tastes, mainly, but I didn't understand how you can get in love with such a person. Also made me hate Max Payne himself, betraying his wife... How could he?! I mean the developers made the game solely on this relation (Sax-Payne), gets kind of boring with time how he's always searching her for answers and all.

regnumekal

I think he loves her because he knows what she feels. He doesn't have that with anyone else in his life. Mona's sister Lisa was murdered and he reflects on that saying:

"I couldn't tell whether it was Mona or her sister, the
           body was a mess. The sick bastard had really gotten a
           kick out of it. Seeing her lying there got me thinking
           about another woman's body on another bed. Got me
           thinking about a fallen cradle."

They know each others pain. But I also think its the temptation for a cop to be on the other side of the law etc. 

-In the second there were no V addicts or occult elements, and thw world is pretty generic. Also Mafia has a small role - not so good for a noir game.

regnumekal

Why would there be? V is dead. Its all about the Mafia really.

Who do you think attacks the restaurant? Vlads ties to the mob. The Cleaners are essentially gangsters.

The difference is that MP2 is closer to what we'd call a commercial product and MP1 - an artistic product.Gameplay is practicaly identical, with minor tweaks in the 2nd.

regnumekal

I don't know what you mean by that. I really don't. A commerical product? I'm pretty sure MP1 actually got more hype and adveritising than MP2...so yeah...I think that sounds like something you just made up....maybe?

The tweaks to bullet time make a huge difference to how you play from the first game IMO.

MP2 used a similar device in that the TV shows represented what was happening in the game, like the Soap Opera showing the characters betrayling one another, etc. biggest_loser

I don't think that soap opera can compare with the news that's directly showing what have you done. Two different concepts: world fame or individual interpretation.

MP2 is just as Noir but it takes a different angle. Where the first game was a revenge story, MP2 focuses mostly on the Femme Fatale convention of Noir through Mona Sax. Love stories are rarely touched upon in games and when they are it normally involves D Cups. At least this was much more mature. biggest_loser

Maybe, but that has nothing with colors. I don't mind the storyline, I'm saying that there's no original atmosphere. Personally, don't know about others, I identify "noir" with "lack "of colors.

I don't think it recycles jokes. I already explained what I thought about the purpose of the TV shows this time around.

biggest_loser

The hidden purpose of the jokes is obvious, and it was used in the same manner in both games, but only in the 1st I actually laughed, that considering the fact that just some time ago Max Payne loses both - his wife and his kid.

I think he loves her because he knows what she feels. He doesn't have that with anyone else in his life. Mona's sister Lisa was murdered and he reflects on that saying:

"I couldn't tell whether it was Mona or her sister, the
           body was a mess. The sick bastard had really gotten a
           kick out of it. Seeing her lying there got me thinking
           about another woman's body on another bed. Got me
           thinking about a fallen cradle."

They know each others pain. But I also think its the temptation for a cop to be on the other side of the law etc. biggest_loser

I don't think he loves her though, just searching for a person to forget... or to remember...

Why would there be? V is dead. Its all about the Mafia really.

Who do you think attacks the restaurant? Vlads ties to the mob. The Cleaners are essentially gangsters.biggest_loser

Yes, V's dead! That's the point. You don't see junkies, nor mobsters. Just some cleaners... Yes, they may be gangsters, but I'm talking about the Italian Mafia. In the first there's Gognitti, Lupini, those brothers and the Don, also Don's trio. Vlad on the other hand, is a member of the inner circle, that doesn't really count. Again this is about atmosphere and environment.

I don't know what you mean by that. I really don't. A commerical product? I'm pretty sure MP1 actually got more hype and adveritising than MP2...so yeah...I think that sounds like something you just made up....maybe?

The tweaks to bullet time make a huge difference to how you play from the first game IMO.

biggest_loser

Look dude, I'm talking about art. Like in real life: there's for example Rembrandt's painting (this is art) and then there's a photo which is even better in details, realism and light. But the sad thing is that this photo isn't art. It's just not art...a mere picture...

I love Max Payne 2 also. It's awesome. I'm almost embarassed to say it, but it is easily in my top 10 games ever.

I played the sequel first, but recently played MP1.

In terms of design MP2 is exactly what a sequel should be: it fixes the faults of the first game while it keeps the good stuf and stays true to the essentials.

I guess the story of the first one might be better since it was first, but, technically MP2 is superior, and it is defintley the better product when taken as a whole.

And the game still looks good.

What has always been impressive to me is how cleanly the game runs; the engine and world design is beautifully optimized, especially for a cross platformer.

I don't know why it didn't sell well. Perhaps because it was marketed to consolers as a John Woo action title (remember the TV commercials?), which it isn't exactly.

Here's my input:

Sequels to anything are usually garbage, especially sequels to stories that are great. That said Max Payne was great. It was a pinnacle in gaming history. Max Payne was so good, that when Max Payne 2 came out, I refused to buy it. I still refuse to buy it. It doesn't make sense that there'd be a sequel to begin with. The ending to Max Payne was priceless and was in no need for a sequel.

I didn't buy Max Payne 2 because Max Payne the original is timeless.

Here's my input:

Sequels to anything are usually garbage, especially sequels to stories that are great. That said Max Payne was great. It was a pinnacle in gaming history. Max Payne was so good, that when Max Payne 2 came out, I refused to buy it. I still refuse to buy it. It doesn't make sense that there'd be a sequel to begin with. The ending to Max Payne was priceless and was in no need for a sequel.

I didn't buy Max Payne 2 because Max Payne the original is timeless.

xNJN

lol?

Here's my input:

Sequels to anything are usually garbage, especially sequels to stories that are great. That said Max Payne was great. It was a pinnacle in gaming history. Max Payne was so good, that when Max Payne 2 came out, I refused to buy it. I still refuse to buy it. It doesn't make sense that there'd be a sequel to begin with. The ending to Max Payne was priceless and was in no need for a sequel.

I didn't buy Max Payne 2 because Max Payne the original is timeless.

xNJN

hey biggestloser theres your answer.thinking like this led to the downfall of max payne 2.

Here's my input:

Sequels to anything are usually garbage, especially sequels to stories that are great. That said Max Payne was great. It was a pinnacle in gaming history. Max Payne was so good, that when Max Payne 2 came out, I refused to buy it. I still refuse to buy it. It doesn't make sense that there'd be a sequel to begin with. The ending to Max Payne was priceless and was in no need for a sequel.

I didn't buy Max Payne 2 because Max Payne the original is timeless.

xNJN

Wow...That is insensible to the extreme.

Sequels to anything are usually garbage, especially sequels to stories that are great.

xNJN

That's actually not true for games. Many of the greatest games of all time are sequels; in fact, they often surpass the original.

TF2, BG2, Front Page Sports: Football Pro '95, Fallout 2, Dune 2, WC2, Diablo 2, SS2, Doom 2, Quake 2, HL2, NOLF2, Links 386, Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast (which, admittedly, is actually Dark Forces 3, I guess), Sam & Max Season 2, Unreal Tournament 2004 *pretends 2003 never happened*, and many, many more. And yes, MP2 did MP one better, imho.