Whats So Bad About Health Packs?

If you use health packs, you have to balance it. You have to play over and over to find out probable health levels of players at different all these different parts of the game, and you need to work out how many health packs you need to put in, and you need to work out where to put them. You also need to balance it through all your difficulty levels.

With a shield, you don't. Developers are hardworking people, but they will cut every corner they can.

i think it's just that the idea of health packs reviving a player's gunshot wounds is too ridiculous. as someone noted, regenerating health could be seen as bullets having hit the body armor and the player recovering from the impact. also, it makes devs have to scratch their heads over where the health packs are best located, so eliminating health packs gives them one less thing to worry about. some players don't like health packs because they don't like it when their health is dwindling and health packs aren't around at that point.fireandcloud

It could be the same idea for health packs to - the health is symbolizing your external conditions as opposed to internal. Regenerating health is simply ridiculous. Health packs are unrealistic - but much they are much more realistic than regenerating health and it also adds extra layers of strategy to games. It's completely stupid to have infinite health in a single fight (or many fights). And the worst part is that it makes all games that use this health system too easy.

[QUOTE="fireandcloud"]i think it's just that the idea of health packs reviving a player's gunshot wounds is too ridiculous. as someone noted, regenerating health could be seen as bullets having hit the body armor and the player recovering from the impact. also, it makes devs have to scratch their heads over where the health packs are best located, so eliminating health packs gives them one less thing to worry about. some players don't like health packs because they don't like it when their health is dwindling and health packs aren't around at that point.GodLovesDead

It could be the same idea for health packs to - the health is symbolizing your external conditions as opposed to internal. Regenerating health is simply ridiculous. Health packs are unrealistic - but much they are much more realistic than regenerating health and it also adds extra layers of strategy to games. It's completely stupid to have infinite health in a single fight (or many fights). And the worst part is that it makes all games that use this health system too easy.

i don't disagree. but i have to keep a suspension of disbelief to get through games without breaking immersion. i just have to...

Health was handled best in Medal Of Honour: Pacific Assault. Press a button to staunch the flow of blood, then call for a medic to bandage you up. Made complete sense in the context of the game, and you didn't have to run around looking for health packs every five seconds.

I don't like this trend of 'regenerating' health in games, because for me it is just 'magic' auto-healing, and it just feels stupid in games that are supposed to be a bit more realistic. You can try and colour it any way you like, but at the end of the day it is auto-healing, plain and simple. That kind of thing may be fine in an SF setting (like the Crysis nano-suit patching you up), but for more realistic settings I don't think it should be used.

Unfortunately the rot has already set in.

Both health systems are unrealistic but it's only a game anyway.

Who needs realism anyways.lenson

Operation Flashpoint, Stalker, the Rainbow Six series (up to Raven Shield), and various other games that use realism to its advantage.

Lets not mention realism - there's no realistic way to recover from bullet wounds in a matter of seconds. You might get away with this in a sci-fi game but that makes up a niche and we're talking about general terms here.

It's worth noting that in games like Half Life 2 most of the health packs are not static. If you're running around on 80-90 health you're far less likely to find more health, however if you're low then you're increasingly likely.

One argument in favour of health packs is it gives the developers another way by which they can control the difficulty of a particular section.

Ultimately the inclusion of auto regenerating health in modern FPS is probably just down to new games copying Halo.

Ultimately the inclusion of auto regenerating health in modern FPS is probably just down to new games copying Halo.

jollyriot2k1

Not really. The health system between COD4 and Halo is quite different.

The former you just recharge whereas in Halo you can still lose those health bars if they don't recover from taking damage in time.

[QUOTE="lenson"]Who needs realism anyways.GodLovesDead

Operation Flashpoint, Stalker, the Rainbow Six series (up to Raven Shield), and various other games that use realism to its advantage.

Well you can't heal yourself in those games anyway

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

[QUOTE="lenson"]Who needs realism anyways.Lonelynight

Operation Flashpoint, Stalker, the Rainbow Six series (up to Raven Shield), and various other games that use realism to its advantage.

Well you can't heal yourself in those games anyway

i think that was his point. he was saying that these games try to be as realistic as possible, so they don't use health packs or a regen system. except stalker - you can heal yourself in stalker.

I like the STALKER system the most.aliblabla2007

I like it too because you can carry medical supplies with you & use it when you want/need to. I've always hated running around in an FPS with low health & hoping that there would be health around the next corner. I think the health regeneration is good for FPSs with no inventory system & especially for the FPSs that don't have quicksave.

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]I like the STALKER system the most.Herrick

I like it too because you can carry medical supplies with you & use it when you want/need to. I've always hated running around in an FPS with low health & hoping that there would be health around the next corner. I think the health regeneration is good for FPSs with no inventory system & especially for the FPSs that don't have quicksave.

in terms of storing health packs, i think other games have done that before stalker. f.e.ar., for sure; i think there were others as well. didn't quake or quake 2 or something feature that first?

[QUOTE="Herrick"]

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]I like the STALKER system the most.fireandcloud

I like it too because you can carry medical supplies with you & use it when you want/need to. I've always hated running around in an FPS with low health & hoping that there would be health around the next corner. I think the health regeneration is good for FPSs with no inventory system & especially for the FPSs that don't have quicksave.

in terms of storing health packs, i think other games have done that before stalker. f.e.ar., for sure; i think there were others as well. didn't quake or quake 2 or something feature that first?

Yeah, I was gonna comment on that. Quake 2 didn't do it, but the System Shock games did.

[QUOTE="fireandcloud"][QUOTE="Herrick"]

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]I like the STALKER system the most.fatshodan

I like it too because you can carry medical supplies with you & use it when you want/need to. I've always hated running around in an FPS with low health & hoping that there would be health around the next corner. I think the health regeneration is good for FPSs with no inventory system & especially for the FPSs that don't have quicksave.

in terms of storing health packs, i think other games have done that before stalker. f.e.ar., for sure; i think there were others as well. didn't quake or quake 2 or something feature that first?

Yeah, I was gonna comment on that. Quake 2 didn't do it, but the System Shock games did.

oh, right. i knew there was one...

Being able to save at any instant is much easier than having auto-healing. Moreover, saving and reloading disrupts the playing experience.

I was only able to finish AC by running into circles while re-generating in the final battles.

[QUOTE="Herrick"]

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]I like the STALKER system the most.fireandcloud

I like it too because you can carry medical supplies with you & use it when you want/need to. I've always hated running around in an FPS with low health & hoping that there would be health around the next corner. I think the health regeneration is good for FPSs with no inventory system & especially for the FPSs that don't have quicksave.

in terms of storing health packs, i think other games have done that before stalker. f.e.ar., for sure; i think there were others as well. didn't quake or quake 2 or something feature that first?

I remember Unreal had something really neat for restoring health. You could carry around the seeds for the healing plants in your inventory, then 'plant' them whenever you wanted and wait for the tree to grow then use it to heal. That was pretty innovative for the time.

But yeah, System Shock allowed you to carry around health packs in the inventory as well.

its unrealistic, but what i find annoying about health packs is that when your running low on health you cant find them when u need itSimplySkilled

true but what if ur playing on hardest difficulty 3 shots and ur dead not enough time to run around and get a health pack (ULL be dead by then)SimplySkilled

ok for those kindof games its cool to have healthpacks such as fear and maxp. i dont like healthpacks in games such as moha series.SimplySkilled

You go walking in the street....do you encounter a bunch of first aid kits lying around? Hell no. So health packs are just as ridiculous as a shield. I think a shield is a better idea, but you have to modify the gameplay to ensure that its not too easy to just hide and wait till the shield comes back. Such as better AI...or more open space..siddhartha211

I like health packs and regen. Maybe they could mix both of them together!

I think they did that in the first Halo game, so it can be done.

I think Crysis and Halo did the auto regeneratiog health thing the best.Lonelynight

Crysis and Halo 1 did.. Not the other Halo's.. The fact they completely omitted the health bars was rediculous.. They need to add it back, that wa sa nice feature in the original halo.

You go walking in the street....do you encounter a bunch of first aid kits lying around? Hell no. So health packs are just as ridiculous as a shield. I think a shield is a better idea, but you have to modify the gameplay to ensure that its not too easy to just hide and wait till the shield comes back. Such as better AI...or more open space..siddhartha211

Regeneration is just as rediculous, I didn't realize I was Wolverine capable of regenerating health.. And the fact of the matter is alot of games like CoD2 which takes place during WW2.. You had no body armor.. And body armor wears and tears..

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]I like the STALKER system the most.Herrick

I like it too because you can carry medical supplies with you & use it when you want/need to. I've always hated running around in an FPS with low health & hoping that there would be health around the next corner. I think the health regeneration is good for FPSs with no inventory system & especially for the FPSs that don't have quicksave.

yes, this works well - also i like Stalker becuase it counts food as something that helps health (not many games do this - i can only think of RTCW, also to an extent Deus Ex and Chrome), but more than that it differentiates between being healthy and hungry - at certain points you have to EAT something or you start tiring - medical kits don't do the trick

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"][QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

[QUOTE="lenson"]Who needs realism anyways.fireandcloud

Operation Flashpoint, Stalker, the Rainbow Six series (up to Raven Shield), and various other games that use realism to its advantage.

Well you can't heal yourself in those games anyway

i think that was his point. he was saying that these games try to be as realistic as possible, so they don't use health packs or a regen system. except stalker - you can heal yourself in stalker.

I'm pretty sure GodLovesDead simply meant that there are games that have successfully implemented realism in general and that there are many people that like realism. He wasn't specifically talking about medkits or regen.

As for healing yourself in those games, it's possible in Operation Flashpoint/Armed Assault and STALKER.

In STALKER you got the medkits, bandages and food that you can carry around. Also, the health renegerates but it does so extremely slowly. If you use mods, you can also sleep to regenerate health.

In OFP/ARMA there are medics and red cross tents/vehicles that can heal you. You must be in close proximity to a medic or red cross tent/vehicle, then you'll be able to use the actions menu to start healing. Healing takes about 15 seconds. Both the medic and the patient can't do anything while the healing process is happening.

Personally I think that regeneration combined with medkits AND medics from OFP/ARMA would make the most realistic system. Regeneration could simulate the near loss of consciousness when a bullet hits your body and doesn't kill you. Regeneration doesn't regenerate hitpoints but instead it regenerates something like "morale". Also, it should regenerate it much slower then currently happends in games. When you take damage you will lose more morale then hitpoints. When you lose "morale" the screen becomes a bit blurry. The less morale you got, the more blurry it will become. If you lose too much morale, you will go into shock, you freeze up and go prone or crouch automatically. Or you could even lose consciousness, screen goes black and you fall. Morale could regenerate but very slowly if you go into shock. A medic could restore the morale but can not restore the lost hitpoints. This regen thing would fit perfectly for a proper body armor system, where there is a chance that the bullet does not penetrate the armor.

There could also be a small chance of bleeding when you get hit. A player would be able to carry a medkit that he can use to stop the bleeding. A medic would be able to carry many medkits or maybe an infinite amount. Like I said before, it's not possible to heal lost hitpoints because that's not realistic.

Health packs can slow the pace of the game and break up the action far to much. In games today, unless you want to make your shooter a more survival game, health packs really don't have any place.

Why have devs seemed to completly abandon them recently, regenerating health makes games to easy.Mike1234234

Because in real life health packs don't litter battlefields. In war games they try to make them more realistic so some developers went with the regenerating health approach so you don't have health packs looking out of place all over the maps.

I don't mind self-regeneration in single-player, but I think it ruins the multiplayer game. COD1 multiplayer (with health packs off) was much better than COD2 (with the regeneration). It's simply lame to headshot someone or burst them in the chest, but they run away and hide before you finish the job. It's much more enjoyable and tense if you there's no way you're getting your health back. Plus, it's quite exciting to take out the last few enemies when you only have a sliver of life left.

I'm not entirely against healing, but I think the way it's handled in Tribes is much better than a self-regen or health pack system. You essentially have a "medic" option (regen pack) that can heal yourself or others. And, everyone has a single -use health pack they can use at any time.

Regen definitely makes for repetitive games. You always enter an area with the exact same health (100). And they all become a silly game of hide, heal, seek and repeat. I do like variety in games, so I'd be happy if at least half the games had healthpacks or some kind of variety of health that you have.pseudodog07

So you don't like any of the games released in 2007-08?(assuming you don't like 'repetitive' games)

[QUOTE="pseudodog07"]Regen definitely makes for repetitive games. You always enter an area with the exact same health (100). And they all become a silly game of hide, heal, seek and repeat. I do like variety in games, so I'd be happy if at least half the games had healthpacks or some kind of variety of health that you have.Kuyt19

So you don't like any of the games released in 2007-08?(assuming you don't like 'repetitive' games)

No, variety is OK as long as healthpacks are still used for half the games IMO. But, I don't rank Crysis or COD4 over games like Stalker, Bioshock, HL2 or any of the other great healthpack games. I think Far Cry and COD1 still have superior gameplay to those too.