TOR lost 400k subscriptions since February, 1.3mil active subs right now

So? Most MMOs take a dive after the first few months. They stablize after 3-4 months and then stay pretty steady if the developer keeps releasing content.

Same happened with Rift and that game is still very active.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

So? Most MMOs take a dive after the first few months. They stablize after 3-4 months and then stay pretty steady if the developer keeps releasing content.

Same happened with Rift and that game is still very active.

K4ss3r

There has been 2 large patches and the game has been out for a little over 4 months.

I still don't get why people get so excited about a MMO losing subs. I mean TORtanic...really? Does it make you feel good inside to see another PC exclusive in a negative light?

I really don't get it...I want all pc games to do well even if I don't like the game.

But whatever.....

BSC14

By the time they make this game free to play no one is going to care. Star Trek Online anyone?SKaREO

If it were not for SWTOR a lot of people on this forum would be really bored....well I guess they could find something else to bash every day.

If it were not for SWTOR a lot of people on this forum would be really bored....well I guess they could find something else to bash every day.

BSC14

[QUOTE="BSC14"]

I still don't get why people get so excited about a MMO losing subs. I mean TORtanic...really? Does it make you feel good inside to see another PC exclusive in a negative light?

I really don't get it...I want all pc games to do well even if I don't like the game.

But whatever.....

Miroku32

[QUOTE="Miroku32"][QUOTE="BSC14"]

I still don't get why people get so excited about a MMO losing subs. I mean TORtanic...really? Does it make you feel good inside to see another PC exclusive in a negative light?

I really don't get it...I want all pc games to do well even if I don't like the game.

But whatever.....

Gooeykat

the best thing about SWTOR was being a jerk to Jorgan. Otherwise the game sucked.

By the time they make this game free to play no one is going to care. Star Trek Online anyone?SKaREO

[QUOTE="SKaREO"]By the time they make this game free to play no one is going to care. Star Trek Online anyone?sSubZerOo

They need 500k to be profitable, good luck with that!

Most MMO's aren't single player games in disguise.shakmaster13

Man, i couldn't have said it better myself!

I was part of the 400K since February. The game is great....or at least above average from level 1 through 50. Bioware put a ton of work into the stories, voice acting, and cutscenes. Its a solid RPG. However, this game seriously stinks as a MMO.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="SKaREO"]By the time they make this game free to play no one is going to care. Star Trek Online anyone?Baranga

They need 500k to be profitable, good luck with that!

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="SKaREO"]By the time they make this game free to play no one is going to care. Star Trek Online anyone?Baranga

They need 500k to be profitable, good luck with that!

They already made more than their desired profits with boxed sales alone. People subbing is just a bonus for them

The game has a decent foundation, but if it wants to remain in competitive, or even a fun game, its gonna have to get some much needed improvements.

The sound is one thing lately that has been broken in it for a while. Channels cutting in, and out. Can't even hear certain things, its quite ridiculous.

I enjoy the game, and think it could be a great game, but it seems as if Bioware is ignoring some of the most blatant of issues. With Diablo III coming out in a week, and a few other games happening, and me getting a little more focused on my music... I haven't been playing SWTOR that much. Not enough to warrant the $15 a month x2.. Especially when the devs are ignoring a game breaking problem that has went on for a month now. (among other things)

I will hand over the leader of the guild position to my friend in the game, and my gf, and I will suspend our accounts for a few months. Until they get some of these issues fixed. I have seen a few improvements since launch, but lately its just not that great. I don't see the point in paying monthly for a game I am hardly playing atm. (we can always come back IF they fix these issues, but right now, its disappointing)

They already made more than their desired profits with boxed sales alone. People subbing is just a bonus for themwis3boi

The game reportedly cost over $200 million to make. How do you figure they have already made a profit from box sales alone?

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]They already made more than their desired profits with boxed sales alone. People subbing is just a bonus for them-wildflower-

The game reportedly cost over $200 million to make. How do you figure they have already made a profit from box sales alone?

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] .. The game will not be going free to play any time soon.. Anything beyond a few hundred thousand is considered a huge success in the MMORPG franchise.. A MMO does not need millions of subscriptions to sustain themselves.. wis3boi

They need 500k to be profitable, good luck with that!

They already made more than their desired profits with boxed sales alone. People subbing is just a bonus for them

They said before the game was released they need like 1 million subscribers to break even or something.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

They need 500k to be profitable, good luck with that!

Cloud567kar

They already made more than their desired profits with boxed sales alone. People subbing is just a bonus for them

They said before the game was released they need like 1 million subscribers to break even or something.

you know whats funniest about all this.. square enix will have an mmo fossils old with more subscribers than swtor will if this trend continues

you know whats funniest about all this.. square enix will have an mmo fossils old with more subscribers than swtor will if this trend continues

ionusX

They already have almost 3x this much... I don't think they need much luck.FPSfan1985

They need 500k to keep it running but "it's not the kind of thing we would write home about".

500k to keep it running just means that they cover their variable and non-sunk fixed costs. You don't know how long at 500k it would take for the game to profitable.

[QUOTE="FPSfan1985"]They already have almost 3x this much... I don't think they need much luck.Baranga

They need 500k to keep it running but "it's not the kind of thing we would write home about".

Actually what it says in that article is that 500k subscribers would be 'substantially profitable', which is hardly the same as just paying the bills. Essentially, if the article says that if they can keep 500k subscribers the game would be a success, if they can keep 1 million it would be "a very profitable business". So right now they are well above what they'd need to be 'very profitable'.

Again, 1.3 million is very good for an MMO including SWTOR. The real question is if they can hold onto the subscribers or if they will keep dropping. If they keep losing 100k every month or two, they are going to start to be in real trouble half a year from now. If they can stabilize the numbers over the next couple of months, the game could be a very solid success for EA. Basically it's still much to early call it one way or the other.

Just more and more issues for EA. Shares dropped to there 10 year low. The future is grim

EA is what needs to die. They suc and want to shovel crap out the door and make a profit for doing nothing to the fan base that supports it.

I hope they continue the trend or learn that they need quality. It's still crap no matter how great the hype or package is.

This is why all the hate they took a great name and fanbase and they put it thru their crap process and expected gold.

I hope that people will learn that money speaks volumes and I will not support their stuff any longer.

EA is not helping the companies that are putting out great stuff and will support it correctly.

There is only so much gaming money to be had and they aren't worth the fanbase they have.

I hope they change their ways back to great products and great support.

This isn't the first game they have beaten into the ground for the money.

I played swtor till ME3 came out and even tried getting back into it in April. These are the things Tor failed at...

- Gear, It's too easy to get and stats/set bonuses were horrible. I decked out my 2 50s i raided with in columni and rakata gear in 2 weeks. The artwork was just awful and to the genius who decided to make aug gear to be the best cheers.

- Rep Heroic FP, easiest one is Taral V (Esseles, MP was way harder than the Imperial equivalents) you also needed a pretty decently geared tank to run the other ones.

- Had it with the nerfs, my op laughable healing then later on **** dps. Same thing with my healing commando. Apparently, if your not wielding a saber your on the chopping block.

- BWs half ass combat log.

- No real rewards - in PvP Illum is pretty much dead. Space combat is dull it revolves around dodging lasers and rocks, very disappointed in this.

I can say one very good thing about this game is when your new and like star wars lore 1-50 is fun depending on the class, although you can reach 50 in 1 week (1 planet a day about 6hrs after Balmorra/Talus).

ToR will probably be my last MMO, now gonna wait for D3 and Simcity..

I played swtor till ME3 came out and even tried getting back into it in April. These are the things Tor failed at...

- Gear, It's too easy to get and stats/set bonuses were horrible. I decked out my 2 50s i raided with in columni and rakata gear in 2 weeks. The artwork was just awful and to the genius who decided to make aug gear to be the best cheers.

- Rep Heroic FP, easiest one is Taral V (Esseles, MP was way harder than the Imperial equivalents) you also needed a pretty decently geared tank to run the other ones.

- Had it with the nerfs, my op laughable healing then later on **** dps. Same thing with my healing commando. Apparently, if your not wielding a saber your on the chopping block.

- BWs half ass combat log.

- No real rewards - in PvP Illum is pretty much dead. Space combat is dull it revolves around dodging lasers and rocks, very disappointed in this.

I can say one very good thing about this game is when your new and like star wars lore 1-50 is fun depending on the class, although you can reach 50 in 1 week (1 planet a day about 6hrs after Balmorra/Talus).

ToR will probably be my last MMO, now gonna wait for D3 and Simcity..

antics101

Agreed. I enjoy the realm of star wars it was set in, I found that fun for a bit....but those planet designs and layouts.....ughhh...gross. Also, what killed it for me was the incredibly lack of social options and activities. I come from 3 years old LotrO where there are speech bubbles, tons of great emotes, group social events, play made music and instruments, etc. SWTOR felt very shallow compared to LotrO even though SWTOR's combat was a bit more fun, IMO.

They should had just made KOTOR 3.

They should had just made KOTOR 3.

mitu123

on ME3's engine. With real time combat, and sweet dynamic melee combat..../drools. I don't care what anyone says or thinks about the ME series, once I saw how the games were set up, I dreamed of a KotoR set up like them.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

They should had just made KOTOR 3.

wis3boi

on ME3's engine. With real time combat, and sweet dynamic melee combat..../drools. I don't care what anyone says or thinks about the ME series, once I saw how the games were set up, I dreamed of a KotoR set up like them.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

They should had just made KOTOR 3.

mitu123

on ME3's engine. With real time combat, and sweet dynamic melee combat..../drools. I don't care what anyone says or thinks about the ME series, once I saw how the games were set up, I dreamed of a KotoR set up like them.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

They should had just made KOTOR 3.

mitu123

on ME3's engine. With real time combat, and sweet dynamic melee combat..../drools. I don't care what anyone says or thinks about the ME series, once I saw how the games were set up, I dreamed of a KotoR set up like them.

While The Old Republic has only 1.3 millions subscribers, such a number is huge if they are able to retain it for a year or two.

Remember, the key phrase is this: Monthly subscription.

Die! die! die! die! die!

l-lord

If this game does fail then the guys who worked on it will no doubt loe their jobs. They have families to feed. All the guys here who want nothing more than for it to die and close down are pretty ignorant.

Fair enough if the game sucks but even then, I would only wish the best for them. The job market is so tough right now that if it did fail then their kids would suffer amongst other things.

Seriously you all need to grow up and take a look at reality.

If this game does fail then the guys who worked on it will no doubt loe their jobs. They have families to feed. All the guys here who want nothing more than for it to die and close down are pretty ignorant.

Fair enough if the game sucks but even then, I would only wish the best for them. The job market is so tough right now that if it did fail then their kids would suffer amongst other things.

Seriously you all need to grow up and take a look at reality.

HyperWarlock

Worst excuse to keep a POS going. If what is being done is not working why continue to support it. The ones who are working will find another job - the good always do.

Anybody that is really good have more then likely already moved on to another project only the no loads are left. Reality is that if the ship is sinkiing the smart rats have already jumped. Only the dumb ones stay till it sinks.

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]They already made more than their desired profits with boxed sales alone. People subbing is just a bonus for themwis3boi

The game reportedly cost over $200 million to make. How do you figure they have already made a profit from box sales alone?

I've actually read a few articles that claim the $200 million price tag, considering the number of teams involved and the game's lengthy development cycle etc., is a low-ball, conservative, estimate. At any rate, going with your figure and assuming the game cost around $100 million, I still wouldn't think that have made their money back from box sales. Even if they sold 2.5 million copies at $60 a crack (and that is a BIG IF).

Game is still pretty fun for me. I shall continue to play.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

They should had just made KOTOR 3.

wis3boi

on ME3's engine. With real time combat, and sweet dynamic melee combat..../drools. I don't care what anyone says or thinks about the ME series, once I saw how the games were set up, I dreamed of a KotoR set up like them.

Are you implying Kotor with combat similar to Jedi Academy?

Because that would be awesome.

I guess thats what happens when a game gets hyped as a WoW killer, like every other MMO in recent memory. Sadly, I hope the same doesn't happen to GW2 but it will.

[QUOTE="mitu123"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

on ME3's engine. With real time combat, and sweet dynamic melee combat..../drools. I don't care what anyone says or thinks about the ME series, once I saw how the games were set up, I dreamed of a KotoR set up like them.

Ravenshout

While The Old Republic has only 1.3 millions subscribers, such a number is huge if they are able to retain it for a year or two.

Remember, the key phrase is this: Monthly subscription.

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"] That would be like a million times better, I wonder why they didn't go with that...or make it like their 1st one for that matter.jhalter1

While The Old Republic has only 1.3 millions subscribers, such a number is huge if they are able to retain it for a year or two.

Remember, the key phrase is this: Monthly subscription.

The flip side is that if the game is subscription driven, $15 a month means that the player spends $180 a year on that game. That the equivilent of three full cost titles every year (in addition to the initial cost of the game and any additional expansions).

[QUOTE="mitu123"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

on ME3's engine. With real time combat, and sweet dynamic melee combat..../drools. I don't care what anyone says or thinks about the ME series, once I saw how the games were set up, I dreamed of a KotoR set up like them.

antics101

I dont know if there is some hidden majority of players which do not represent forum posters but for the time I have been involved in MMOs (about 6 years) if all our opinions and disapointments matches the customer base as a whole I wouldnt be surprised if developers in all their wisdom and intelligence soon start to say:

'people just dont like MMOs like they used to'..

lol

SEANMCAD

Well I think it is going to come back full circle to the sandbox MMO's of the early days. I mean if you think about it before World of Warcraft it was pretty much dominated by sandbox MMO's which kept most people away because they can have high learning curves. Warcraft comes along and brings the themepark ride in and the kids and "casuals" hop on board and play.

Fast forward 7-8 years now, those kids are now older and the "casuals" are getting bored of the same old same old and want change while most of us early sandbox MMO vets are sitting by waiting for the next MMO title that isn't a themepark. Sadly we have been waiting for awhile haha.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

They should had just made KOTOR 3.

Maroxad

on ME3's engine. With real time combat, and sweet dynamic melee combat..../drools. I don't care what anyone says or thinks about the ME series, once I saw how the games were set up, I dreamed of a KotoR set up like them.

Are you implying Kotor with combat similar to Jedi Academy?

Because that would be awesome.

Yea, at least for melee. Plus, I had always had a dream of KotoR 3 alowign me to pick a class and stick with it. What if I don't want to be a jedi? That sorta thing. Like ME3 style class slection. Use the classes from SWTOR maybe. Make jedi the ultimate melee users or supporters, and like a trooper the ultimate ranged damage dealer

[QUOTE="jhalter1"][QUOTE="Ravenshout"] It is because MMOs generally make more money than your one-time-purchase single-player games. None of Bioware games has ever reached 10 million sales.

While The Old Republic has only 1.3 millions subscribers, such a number is huge if they are able to retain it for a year or two.

Remember, the key phrase is this: Monthly subscription.

Mazoch

The flip side is that if the game is subscription driven, $15 a month means that the player spends $180 a year on that game. That the equivilent of three full cost titles every year (in addition to the initial cost of the game and any additional expansions).

To expand a bit on this. When a publisher sells a retail game through GameStop or online through STEAM, the game will normally sell for $60. However the retailer takes ~25% of that money so suddenly the publisher gets more like $45 pr. game. (If it?s a console title, remove another $10-12 to the console company).

Revenues collected from subscribers or through micro transactions go 100% to the publisher running the game.

For example; imagine you release a 'normal' game and sell 1.000.000 copies on the PC @ $60. That means that you'd get approx 40 million in revenue. On the console it would be more like 30 million. Hopefully that should be enough to cover the cost of developing the game.
Now imagine an MMO that sells 1.000.000 copies. It would also earn 40 million in initial revenues. However imagine if just 200.000 of those people subscriber to the game. The first year, the subscription revenues would equal 36.000.000. The second year the revenues would be 72 million, then 108 million after three years. And remember that 200k is not that big a subscription number for an MMO. Now take those numbers again and consider how much you?d make with a million subscribers. In five years you could make revenues of almost a billion dollars.

So sure, you need to pay for servers and a small dev team to continue development and maintenance on the MMO, but it?s not that much compared to the cost of a full scale game development team, and the revenues more than make up for it.

There's are obviously not real world numbers as lots of other factors would play in. It does hoever illustrate why MMO's are so tempting for game developers.

If this game does fail then the guys who worked on it will no doubt loe their jobs. They have families to feed. All the guys here who want nothing more than for it to die and close down are pretty ignorant.

Fair enough if the game sucks but even then, I would only wish the best for them. The job market is so tough right now that if it did fail then their kids would suffer amongst other things.

Seriously you all need to grow up and take a look at reality.

HyperWarlock