The path to the perfect RTS

The basic idea of an RTS game is a fight over resources that can be used to produce units that can be used to fight over the resources; do while alive=true

The first RTS where this concept was take to its limit was Total Annihilation, and the subset of gamers who wanted the raw RTS experience as defined above, embraced it, never able to look at another "RTS" game the same. There were other good games out there that were called RTS, but they were more like massive fighting games(starcraft), toy soldier games(AOE 2).
It took 10 years to get a sequel out, but the supreme commander project had a number of problems. Thankfully Chris Taylor(the lead designer) didn't compromise gameplay for hardware requirements. This did create the problem that even 5 years later an average gaming pc will begin to die in larger games. Some of you may say this is because of bad programming, but I will counter that substituting 3D simulation of every projectile with a random number generator does not count as code optimization. The second problem that supcom had was that it was too difficult for 9/10 people to learn, by 2007 gamers got too used to the game taking care of them in the brain department and idolizing their hand/eye coordination (console games are the epitome here). Balancing issues and multiplayer lobby connection problems were also there, but were eventually all resolved, with the Forged Alliance expansion, multiple patches, death of GPGNET and revival/rebalancing on FAF.
With the epic failure that Supcom 2 was gaming publishers have effectively stated that they don't believe a game as difficult as Supcom FA will ever be made again. Perhaps Planetary Annihilation, that decided to forego getting a publisher have the right idea, but that project is still just beginning.
Today we have the greatest RTS available to us in Supcom FA and any chances that something better will ever be made again are very slim. Any self respecting gamer, who would like to begin to pretend they are playing RTS should learn Supcom FA, your computer should finally be good enough to run it.
Here are some gameplay examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnn-qTByUKI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAgcp69HMXs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbRvci4DuMQ

Not really sure what you are trying to say, but yeah...I love TA and SupCom (1, not 2...though 2 was ok, not as bad as everyone says).

I want to see RTSs return to the fundamentals, and refine them. Not that I want to halt any advancement or new directions RTSs are heading, but the best RTS past and present have always had a solid core gameplay experience.

It's like a grilled cheese sandwich made by the best chef in the world: sure, on the outside it is just two slices of bread with cheese, grilled in a pan; but deep down, the fundamentals are so amazing, so stuffed with the best cheese int he world, layered on fresh brioche, then pan fried in truffle butter, that it lends an amazing experience.

All great things are such, imo; the quality of the game is determined by the quality of its most basic, simplest component

Not sure what you mean. The UEF faction has the mech marine, mongoose, titan and percival. All have their role in the game.

If by infantry you mean toy soldiers that have historically accurate uniforms, then you probably can't beat the total war series, but that is not at all the kind of game I am talking about here, it doesn't fit the definition of RTS as written in the opening post.

The Westwood Command & Conquer games, Dawn of War Warhammer 40k and Age of Empires as well as Empire Earth all did their job pretty well in my opinion.

The Westwood Command & Conquer games, Dawn of War Warhammer 40k and Age of Empires as well as Empire Earth all did their job pretty well in my opinion.

Justforvisit

Also, Command and Conquer has been in the 'suck' state for quite some time now.

Total Annihilation and SupCom are average at best. You don't even mention Dune II once in your lengthy OP. You called StarCraft a massive fighting game for Christ's sake. Obviously not a true RTS fan if you don't give credit where it's due.SKaREO

Not really sure what you are trying to say, but yeah...I love TA and SupCom (1, not 2...though 2 was ok, not as bad as everyone says).

I want to see RTSs return to the fundamentals, and refine them. Not that I want to halt any advancement or new directions RTSs are heading, but the best RTS past and present have always had a solid core gameplay experience.

It's like a grilled cheese sandwich made by the best chef in the world: sure, on the outside it is just two slices of bread with cheese, grilled in a pan; but deep down, the fundamentals are so amazing, so stuffed with the best cheese int he world, layered on fresh brioche, then pan fried in truffle butter, that it lends an amazing experience.

All great things are such, imo; the quality of the game is determined by the quality of its most basic, simplest component

mrbojangles25

That was unusually descriptive. :?

I think I'll go make me a sandwich....

[QUOTE="SKaREO"]Total Annihilation and SupCom are average at best. You don't even mention Dune II once in your lengthy OP. You called StarCraft a massive fighting game for Christ's sake. Obviously not a true RTS fan if you don't give credit where it's due.DilliDalli

Now you are just making a fool of yourself SkaREO. You really have no clue about supcom fa. For example TLO, who was pretty good at both SC2 and supcom FA, has stated supcom FA is about 10 times as complex.

The thing that is so hard to understand for the average gamer, when they step into Supcom FA is that the economy is based on rates. Your comment about lack of scarcity highlights this misunderstanding, there is a scarcity in rates of resource income. The mass rate income is a function of map control and reinvestment of mass into mass extraction(there is definitely a limit here for any map). The power income is a function of infrastructure. The completely unique resource of build capacity is what allows you control over the relative rates of the 3 resources being streamed to the different projects. All this in real time on top of intense micro, massive maps and unparalleled tactical variety. I understand that you can't possibly understand what I am talking about, because it takes players weeks just to begin to understand how to control their eco. I would just like request that you don't refer to this game as specifically made for little children, its insulting, while most of the players who plays this game competitively are computer programers, university students, military, etc. We really don't get any kids wanting to play with us.

For those interested in seeing what this game is like, with their own eyes, and not base their opinion, on noobs that wander the forums, check out the immortals trophy tournament on FAF. It is being casted by a number of people on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg7EdfzxtVE

SupCom FA is the greatest RTS i have ever played. also, World In Conflict was pretty cool too, but in a whole different way.

e: honorary mention to Homeworld.