KotOR2 with TSLCM and Obsidian

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#1 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

Finally decided to play KotoR2 with the TSLCMThere are still many known cut contents to be restored, but after finishing the game, I dont think all those unrealized materials will make the game any better (still applaud to the mod community).

The overall gaming experience isreally mixed~

for the narrative, I feel that Obsidian tried too hard to emulate that of Planescape Torment, and its impossible not for me to compare the two; KotoR2 is inevitably pale. The dev teams does tell a nice story of light/dark knights of force, but is nowhere near as sophisticated and inspiring than Nameless Ones journey.

My biggest issue with the game is the emphasis of solo gameplay. KotoR2 is a cLassic party adventure CPRG (with DC and saving throw in a galaxy far far away); of course player can decide to solo such games (a popular practice for some Baldurs Gate veterans), but the games are designed for party gameplay.

With cut contents, some missions or segments (HK factory, fighting handmaiden sisters and such) require us not only to solo PC, but also NPC companions.

The whole end game section is the worst: its a long and tedious solo dungeon clawing (no party battle whatsoever), featuring four boss fights (two of them fought by lone companions). At that stage of the game, my PC literally is able to force wave through all the goons without losing any HP; only the finale battle poses some challenge. I was wondering why any game developer would think this kind endgame is good for a party RPG?

Then, after some thinking, I come to the conclusion that Obsidian simply put story over gameplay when they made the game. Many cut contents are addressing narrative events or character relationships. This is a story about a Jedi exile who by himself and upset or restore the balance of galaxyits good for a comic, novel, or even a movie, but definitely not a good one for a party RPG.

NWN2->MotB, F:NV, and AP are all excellent RPGs, and I consider Obsidian as the best current RPG developer because of them. Even Dungeon Siege 3 manages to bring something new to ARPG. KotOR2 is the least impressive (downright disappointing at times) effort from them~

#2 Posted by JangoWuzHere (17466 posts) -

Okay...I don't get your comparisons to Planescape Torment. You were setting your expectations way to high if you were expecting narrative detail on the same level as Torment.

Also Kotor 2 came out like 8 years ago. I don't see the point in criticizing a came that came out so long ago.

#3 Posted by 190586385885857957282413308806 (13084 posts) -

Okay...I don't get your comparisons to Planescape Torment. You were setting your expectations way to high if you were expecting narrative detail on the same level as Torment.

Also Kotor 2 came out like 8 years ago. I don't see the point in criticizing a came that came out so long ago.

JangoWuzHere
He brought it up because a few weeks ago the final fanmade patch came out that restores a lot of content and fixes a crap ton of bugs. The game is more complete now than it was 8 years ago.
#4 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

Okay...I don't get your comparisons to Planescape Torment. You were setting your expectations way to high if you were expecting narrative detail on the same level as Torment.

Also Kotor 2 came out like 8 years ago. I don't see the point in criticizing a came that came out so long ago.

JangoWuzHere

why I bring it up now, see smerlus's post; I've been waiting for TSLCM to complete to play the game~

as for Torment comparison, it's not about "expectation"; I didn't expect the game to match Torment in anyway, but as I play through the game, it's just so obvious to me that the dev team emulate Torment's narrative to design the game.

a mysterious nobody severed from his/her past, and then go on a self-searching journey, picking up friends and foes in the past, revisiting all the places that has been. the journey eventually leads to a decision to become what kind of self.

it just reminds me of Torment when I played the game, which didn't happen when I played Obsidian's other games~

#5 Posted by eggdog1234 (831 posts) -

Not sure if you played the game before the restored content but it really makes a huge difference. TSL is a broken and unfinished game but it is also one of my all time favorite rpgs. I am not a huge star wars fan but I do like the lore and TSL is the only piece of star wars media that discusses jedi, sith and the force in such an existential way and that is a big part of why I love it. I also really like the party interaction. I think Kreia is a wonderful tool to roleplay a character off of. I agree that the game has no balance in that you are a god almost from the beginning and you only get more powerful. I am sorry the game didn't jive with you because I have had such good times in TSL and Kreia, Sion and Nihilus are among the baddest of the bad in the Sith order.

#6 Posted by kozzy1234 (35361 posts) -

I definatly disagree, to me KOTOR2 is one of Obsidians best games and slightly more enjoyable than KOTOR1 imo.

#7 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

I definatly disagree, to me KOTOR2 is one of Obsidians best games and slightly more enjoyable than KOTOR1 imo.

kozzy1234

I do think KotOR2 is overall better than KotoR1, but it's irrelvent here since I only concern Obsidian's own works here.

as I mentioned in my first post, KotOR2 is the least impressive game from Obsidian, and the only one that I have a degree of disappointment while playing. It's certainly superior to Dungeon Siege 3, but I won't put it above NWN2->MotB, F:NV, and AP.

for one thing, KotoR2 is the only Obsidian game that let me feel dragging on and just want to finish it for good~ especially that's the last impression of the game -- the whole endgame section just a long and tedious solo dungeon crawling...I wish I could've skipped all the fighting and just get to the conversations with Sion and Keira~

#9 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

Not sure if you played the game before the restored content but it really makes a huge difference. TSL is a broken and unfinished game but it is also one of my all time favorite rpgs. I am not a huge star wars fan but I do like the lore and TSL is the only piece of star wars media that discusses jedi, sith and the force in such an existential way and that is a big part of why I love it. I also really like the party interaction. I think Kreia is a wonderful tool to roleplay a character off of. I agree that the game has no balance in that you are a god almost from the beginning and you only get more powerful. I am sorry the game didn't jive with you because I have had such good times in TSL and Kreia, Sion and Nihilus are among the baddest of the bad in the Sith order.

eggdog1234

it's not that the game didn't "jive" with me...I didn't have a wonderful time playing it, but the quality of the gameplay just decress drastically when I was closer to the endgame.

party interaction, NPC influence and overall quest design are all top notch, and I enjoyed them immensely as did I to all Obsidian's games...but when reaching the endgame, the solo obession and broken game balance just took me out of the game~~:

from a game narrative perspective, the endgame is adequate, rounding out the exile story, but considering gameplay...well, there's only force wave to reach the confrontation with Kreia, even Sion fight is a joke (and of course this is on the hardest difficulty~)

from a gameplay perspective, Nihilus should be twice as powerful as Kreia since we fight him with party, but no, it's a cake walk boss fight, and as a source of hunger so powerful that can obliterate planets...he deserves a better boss fight design~

this is the only Obsidian game that I see a huge incongruency between narrative (story, character development and such) and gameplay (combat and level design).