Can you define piracy if you give a game a chance and it turns out to be trash?

I look at piracy and see a bunch of demos being played, the good games sell good the shit games get there demos played but never finished.

I look at piracy and see a bunch of demos being played, the good games sell good the shit games get there demos played but never finished.

Travis_Odell

No.

If you aren't willing to pay for the product, you have no right to use it. If I see a game I'm not sure if it will be good, I may take reviews into consideration, but in the end, I can patiently wait for the game to be priced cheap and pick it up for $5-10. If I end up enjoying the game, great. If I don't like it, it was only a few bucks and it's nothing that burned a hole in my wallet when I paid for it.

I see your point, but no, I don't think you can.

There is nothing an hour of research and, in the case of doubt, a week of waiting won't tell you.

Just get to know your reviewers, your peers (i.e. us, your fellow posters on the forums and our preferences and if theyre similiar to yours), your own preferences, sources, etc.

If a product has a shady launch, research the developer and publisher; see if they have a history of supporting their product well.

That's why we have reviews and news about the game. There is no excuse to pirate a game. The worst kind of pirates are the ones that pirate a game because they heard it was a bad product. If it's a bad game, then don't play it, it's as simple as that.

I used to think like that when I was younger (well, also because getting legal PC games in Panama was almost impossible).But now, I think that's stupid.

For some reason developers still offer demos of their games. And even if there isn't a demo you can check reviews from reviewers or other people or watch Youtube or even watch some live streams and see for yourself if the game is something you like or not.

Pirating a game is bad. What if you don't like the game but played like half of it? Are you going to pay it in the end or not?

Theft is theft. The quality of what you're stealing is irrelevant.

I would say that most pirates definition of a "demo" is the entire campaign. They will play through it, beat it, and then realize that don't want to spend money on a game that have completed.

I used to think like that when I was younger (well, also because getting legal PC games in Panama was almost impossible).But now, I think that's stupid.

For some reason developers still offer demos of their games. And even if there isn't a demo you can check reviews from reviewers or other people or watch Youtube or even watch some live streams and see for yourself if the game is something you like or not.

Pirating a game is bad. What if you don't like the game but played like half of it? Are you going to pay it in the end or not?

Miroku32

I would say that most pirates definition of a "demo" is the entire campaign. They will play through it, beat it, and then realize that don't want to spend money on a game that have completed.

JangoWuzHere

Could be but i will say for a 5 hour campaaign with a tacked on multiplayer it's not hard to think that way huh?

[QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"]

I would say that most pirates definition of a "demo" is the entire campaign. They will play through it, beat it, and then realize that don't want to spend money on a game that have completed.

Travis_Odell

Could be but i will say for a 5 hour campaaign with a tacked on multiplayer it's not hard to think that way huh?

If you wait for reviews, then you would know it's a short game with tacked on multiplayer. You don't need to pirate it to figure that out.

[QUOTE="Travis_Odell"]

[QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"]

I would say that most pirates definition of a "demo" is the entire campaign. They will play through it, beat it, and then realize that don't want to spend money on a game that have completed.

JangoWuzHere

Could be but i will say for a 5 hour campaaign with a tacked on multiplayer it's not hard to think that way huh?

If you wait for reviews, then you would know it's a short game with tacked on multiplayer. You don't need to pirate it to figure that out.

I was just thinking we needed another piracy thread.

Theft is theft. The quality of what you're stealing is irrelevant.

Starshine_M2A2

That's why we have reviews and news about the game. There is no excuse to pirate a game. The worst kind of pirates are the ones that pirate a game because they heard it was a bad product. If it's a bad game, then don't play it, it's as simple as that.

JangoWuzHere

[QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"]

[QUOTE="Travis_Odell"]

Could be but i will say for a 5 hour campaaign with a tacked on multiplayer it's not hard to think that way huh?

Travis_Odell

If you wait for reviews, then you would know it's a short game with tacked on multiplayer. You don't need to pirate it to figure that out.

[QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"]

That's why we have reviews and news about the game. There is no excuse to pirate a game. The worst kind of pirates are the ones that pirate a game because they heard it was a bad product. If it's a bad game, then don't play it, it's as simple as that.

Elann2008

[QUOTE="Elann2008"][QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"]

That's why we have reviews and news about the game. There is no excuse to pirate a game. The worst kind of pirates are the ones that pirate a game because they heard it was a bad product. If it's a bad game, then don't play it, it's as simple as that.

Travis_Odell

what does that have to do with anything?

Theft is theft. The quality of what you're stealing is irrelevant.

Starshine_M2A2

Nothing is actually stolen though. I still don't put piracy on the same level as theft, they just aren't the same thing. 

They can still sell the game after pirating, someone will buy it if it's worth being purchased.

I should say it like this, I understand why people do it but I don't condone it.

What does being honest have to do with anything?Travis_Odell

[QUOTE="Starshine_M2A2"]

Theft is theft. The quality of what you're stealing is irrelevant.

jer_1

Nothing is actually stolen though. I still don't put piracy on the same level as theft, they just aren't the same thing. 

They can still sell the game after pirating, someone will buy it if it's worth being purchased.

I should say it like this, I understand why people do it but I don't condone it.

So just because you don't get caught doing it... it isn't theft? People have no morals.Elann2008

Copyright infringement is copyright infringement; copies don't deprive a rightful owner of their property, it is not theft.Inconsistancy

[QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"]

I would say that most pirates definition of a "demo" is the entire campaign. They will play through it, beat it, and then realize that don't want to spend money on a game that have completed.

Travis_Odell

Could be but i will say for a 5 hour campaaign with a tacked on multiplayer it's not hard to think that way huh?

it's relative. would you call a guy from China B ( the dirt poor china) a pirate if he pirates a 60$ game meanwhile his yearly salary is probably less ?

it's relative. would you call a guy from China B ( the dirt poor china) a pirate if he pirates a 60$ game meanwhile his yearly salary is probably less ?

ciorlandenis

So just because you don't get caught doing it... it isn't theft? People have no morals.Elann2008

Making people pay for things they don't enjoy is moral to you?

Why do you care? Let people do what they want, especially if it works for you. You've got a bunch of idiots here who are happy to pay for games only to find out they're terrible or simply they don't like them. They talk about reviews and previews, like any of that matters when reviewers are paid off or simply have sh1t taste. I wish reviews were a guarantee of a game quality so I didn't have to waste money on games like Skyrim, Bioshock Infinite or Far Cry 3.ampiva

Unless you've not played a particular genre, you should be able to judge a game just by looking at it. 

I remember when we used to have actual demos for this kind of thing.  Game-play videos don't really cut it and reviews are a joke.  While I've never done it, I can see why some people may opt to get their own "demo" before plunking down their $60.  There really isn't anything that can replace trying something for yourself.

[QUOTE="Starshine_M2A2"]

Theft is theft. The quality of what you're stealing is irrelevant.

Inconsistancy

So taking something you haven't paid for is not stealing according to you?

Good luck with the jury...

There is no excuse to pirate a game.JangoWuzHere

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="Starshine_M2A2"]

Theft is theft. The quality of what you're stealing is irrelevant.

Starshine_M2A2

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="Starshine_M2A2"] So taking something that doesn't belong to you is not stealing then? Good luck with the jury...Starshine_M2A2

No, you are not correct.

When you purchase a game, you are purchasing a license to a copy. If you do not have a license, and you make/distribute a copy, you've committed copyright infringement. Either way, you do not deprive a rightful owner of their property.

"Copyright holders frequently refer to copyright infringement as theft. In copyright law, infringement does not refer to theft of physical objects that take away the owner's possession, but an instance where a person exercises one of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder without authorization.[6] Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft holding. For instance... "

-wikipedia

"Since the statutorily defined property rights of a copyright holder have a character distinct from the possessory interest of the owner of simple "goods, wares, [or] merchandise," interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The infringer of a copyright does not assume physical control over the copyright nor wholly deprive its owner of its use. Infringement implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud. Pp. 214-218."

-Dowling vs United States (1985) http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case=/us/473/207.html

[QUOTE="Starshine_M2A2"][QUOTE="Inconsistancy"] I'm not condoning it, I am simply correct you.Inconsistancy

No, you are not correct.

When you purchase a game, you are purchasing a license to a copy. If you do not have a license, and you make/distribute a copy, you've committed copyright infringement. Either way, you do not deprive a rightful owner of their property.

If you were purchasing a license to copy, there would be no such thing as piracy to begin with as it would mean anyone would have the legal right to copy and distribute without permission or purchase. And theft remains the acquisition of property without permission or purchase which equates to piracy. Quoting from Wikipedia and a vague, on the fence definition of copyright infringement does not help your case.Starshine_M2A2

He said a license to A copy. As in, the copy was already made and you're paying to get it.

Theft implies the intent to deprive the rightful owner of the good in question.

There's nothing "vague, on the fence", you're just terrible at reading comprehension ;)

There's nothing "vague, on the fence", you're just terrible at reading comprehension N30F3N1X

Am I? Oh dear I am sorry...

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]

[QUOTE="Starshine_M2A2"] Not necessary. I was correct to begin with. But I appreciate your feigned concern.Starshine_M2A2

No, you are not correct.

When you purchase a game, you are purchasing a license to a copy. If you do not have a license, and you make/distribute a copy, you've committed copyright infringement. Either way, you do not deprive a rightful owner of their property.

"Copyright holders frequently refer to copyright infringement as theft. In copyright law, infringement does not refer to theft of physical objects that take away the owner's possession, but an instance where a person exercises one of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder without authorization.[6] Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft holding. For instance... "

-wikipedia

"Since the statutorily defined property rights of a copyright holder have a character distinct from the possessory interest of the owner of simple "goods, wares, [or] merchandise," interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The infringer of a copyright does not assume physical control over the copyright nor wholly deprive its owner of its use. Infringement implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud. Pp. 214-218."

-Dowling vs United States (1985) http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case=/us/473/207.html

If you were purchasing a license to copy, there would be no such thing as piracy to begin with as it would mean anyone would have the legal right to copy and distribute without permission or purchase. And theft remains the acquisition of property without permission or purchase which equates to piracy.
Quoting from Wikipedia and a vague, on the fence definition of copyright infringement does not help your case.

When you purchase a game, what you're really doing is purchasing the right to initiate an agreement between you (the end user) and the copyright holder (generally the publisher).  You (generally) may copy it infinitely for personal use (necessary to the functioning of a computer), however you may not distribute a copy to another not covered under the license; and you certainly may not sell an unlicensed copy (bootlegging).

You may recognize the acronym EULA - End User License Agreement (you are the 'end user', you are agreeing with the copyright holder to a license). 

Here is an example of an EULA: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/wow_eula.html

The "vague, on the fence, definition" is a US Supreme Court decision, I thought it to be rather clear. "Interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud."

You (generally) may copy it infinitely for personal use (necessary to the functioning of a computer), however you may not distribute a copy to another not covered under the license; and you certainly may not sell an unlicensed copy (bootlegging).Inconsistancy

That's what I was getting at. I just don't agree that purchasing someone's work automatically gives you the right to copy it at will without their express permission.

Why do people use the "nothing is taken, they can still sell the game argument" ...?

By that logic it is ok for everyone to pirate it and no one buy it... What then?

And considering you are playing their game, you clearly have interest in it (and would be a sale if not a piece of f-cking sh-t).  Nothing peeves me more than 12 year old c-nts who argue "oh I wasn't even going to buy the game so its OK that I pirated it, no lost sale."

Larceny needs to be updated to the times as it is still based in common law from hundreds of years ago.  When you pirate, you deprive the developer/publisher of a sale, when you deprive them of a sale, you deprive them of money.  They need to update the law to include protection of intellectual property.  Make what would otherwise be a sale be considered property, thus piracy a direct deprivation of your property and protected under larceny.

I look at piracy and see a bunch of demos being played, the good games sell good the shit games get there demos played but never finished.

Travis_Odell

Why do people use the "nothing is taken, they can still sell the game argument" ...?

By that logic it is ok for everyone to pirate it and no one buy it... What then?

And considering you are playing their game, you clearly have interest in it (and would be a sale if not a piece of f-cking sh-t).  Nothing peeves me more than 12 year old c-nts who argue "oh I wasn't even going to buy the game so its OK that I pirated it, no lost sale."

Larceny needs to be updated to the times as it is still based in common law from hundreds of years ago.  When you pirate, you deprive the developer/publisher of a sale, when you deprive them of a sale, you deprive them of money.  They need to update the law to include protection of intellectual property.  Make what would otherwise be a sale be considered property, thus piracy a direct deprivation of your property and protected under larceny.

Squeets

When you steal a physical good, the would-be seller loses the ability to sell that item. When an item is copied, the would-be seller continues to have a copy they are capable of selling.

I don't know why you think it must be moved to a Theft crime, copyright infringement laws are more than sufficient, and often in violation of the 8th amendment with excessive fines several orders of magnitude out of value of the illicit copy's value.

Is it that you'd feel better calling pirates 'thieves' instead? Not sure how that would really change anything, and petty theft, as this generally would be (unless you're pirating Maya, or some other 3700$ program) often carries a much lower penalty.