Anti-Aliasing...whats the deal?

I just downloaded and played the Shogun 2 demo and noticed there was no option for AA (prob just because its the demo), but it made me wonder...why is AA even a option? It would make a hell of a lot more sense if every game just had a standard 4x AA built right into the formula. I mean, modern PC games look absolutely atrocious without AA imo, almost unplayable if visuals are a huge part of the game for you.

Does anyone know the actual technical reason why AA is a choice rather than a built in part of the game? I mean how hard is it for game developers to just make sure that edges are clean and not fuzzy, seems kind of sloppy to me.

because some people can't afford a high tech pc.mep69

[QUOTE="mep69"]because some people can't afford a high tech pc.chandlerr_360

Having an option to turn it on or off means people can adjust according to their performance level. If having AA off gains an extra god knows how many FPS, then why not have an option to turn it off? Having no option just forces people who don't even notice or care about AA to put up with it and suffer a potentially massive performance hit.

Being forced to use AA has only negatives. There is nothing positive about it.

I dont care for AA. Unless im getting 60+ fps, i dont bother turning it on. AF, on the other hand, i always max.

Its generally not built into games because of its high memory consumption wreaking havoc on integrated GPUs, especially laptops.

It's common for DEMOS, not to have complete access or no access at all to settings...

Anyway, not playing this, will wait for reviews, won't be fooled after Empire, if they only mention the words issues or bugs, no matter how important or not they are, I'm not getting, even if this is the sequel I wanted the most from the Total War series, but Empire was by far the worst game I ever bought (not because of the game itself, but I just couldn't play it because of bugs) and I avoided Napoleon when people said it was perfectly stable just to recently hear lots of complaints about bugs, lots of bugs, not as severe as Empire, but I won't risk it.

I mean, modern PC games look absolutely atrocious without AA imo, almost unplayable if visuals are a huge part of the game for you.chandlerr_360

You're overreacting to much here.. They look just fine without AA, especially at 1080p were jaggies ain't such a big deal. I honestly think your expectations need to lower down a bit.

Having the option to turn it off or on is a plus, and a big one at that for the majority that uses a mid-end PCs. Some games require it off if you want a good balance of FPS. It makes no sense to take out the choice.

AA is overrated imo. I haven't seen many games were it makes a large differnce.

AA is overrated imo. I haven't seen many games were it makes a large differnce.

James161324

Well, it actually is a pretty giant difference in imagine quality if you're resolution is 800 x 600, or 1024 x 768.

Try it out, the difference betwen non-AA, and AA at max. for games at 1024 or lower is like the difference betwen night and day.

You people are nuts.

Games without AA are ugly an unimmersive. Plain and simple. Nothign brings you out of the experience faster than a bunch of jaggy lines all over the place. Even a modest 2xAA can do wonders at high pixel densities. And that's the key there, pixel density. Resolution doesn't matter. Screen area/resolution matters.

Luckily modern PC hardware cna EASILY pull off 2x AA on most titles without much of an impact at all. It's not until you get past 4x AA or you're doing super sampling that performance starts to take a dive.

I just downloaded and played the Shogun 2 demo and noticed there was no option for AA (prob just because its the demo), but it made me wonder...why is AA even a option? It would make a hell of a lot more sense if every game just had a standard 4x AA built right into the formula. I mean, modern PC games look absolutely atrocious without AA imo, almost unplayable if visuals are a huge part of the game for you.

Does anyone know the actual technical reason why AA is a choice rather than a built in part of the game? I mean how hard is it for game developers to just make sure that edges are clean and not fuzzy, seems kind of sloppy to me.

chandlerr_360

i hope you are joking right? people with low end pcs that hardly play things at medium would be screwed with 4x aa, so no, there is not technical reason, only a logical reason. if you can activate it do so and stop being lazy.

[QUOTE="James161324"]

AA is overrated imo. I haven't seen many games were it makes a large differnce.

Lucianu

Well, it actually is a pretty giant difference in imagine quality if you're resolution is 800 x 600, or 1024 x 768.

Try it out, the difference betwen non-AA, and AA at max. for games at 1024 or lower is like the difference betwen night and day.

I'm sure it can be, but even at 1440 by 900 i can't notice much of a difference between No-2x aa v 8aa.

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]

[QUOTE="James161324"]

AA is overrated imo. I haven't seen many games were it makes a large differnce.

James161324

Well, it actually is a pretty giant difference in imagine quality if you're resolution is 800 x 600, or 1024 x 768.

Try it out, the difference betwen non-AA, and AA at max. for games at 1024 or lower is like the difference betwen night and day.

I'm sure it can be, but even at 1440 by 900 i can't notice much of a difference between No-2x aa v 8aa.

Maybe you're doing something wrong. The difference is usually massive!

You people are nuts.

Games without AA are ugly an unimmersive. Plain and simple. Nothign brings you out of the experience faster than a bunch of jaggy lines all over the place. Even a modest 2xAA can do wonders at high pixel densities. And that's the key there, pixel density. Resolution doesn't matter. Screen area/resolution matters.

Luckily modern PC hardware cna EASILY pull off 2x AA on most titles without much of an impact at all. It's not until you get past 4x AA or you're doing super sampling that performance starts to take a dive.

Kinthalis

I just downloaded and played the Shogun 2 demo and noticed there was no option for AA (prob just because its the demo), but it made me wonder...why is AA even a option? It would make a hell of a lot more sense if every game just had a standard 4x AA built right into the formula. I mean, modern PC games look absolutely atrocious without AA imo, almost unplayable if visuals are a huge part of the game for you.

Does anyone know the actual technical reason why AA is a choice rather than a built in part of the game? I mean how hard is it for game developers to just make sure that edges are clean and not fuzzy, seems kind of sloppy to me.

chandlerr_360

You people are nuts.

Games without AA are ugly an unimmersive. Plain and simple. Nothign brings you out of the experience faster than a bunch of jaggy lines all over the place. Even a modest 2xAA can do wonders at high pixel densities. And that's the key there, pixel density. Resolution doesn't matter. Screen area/resolution matters.

Luckily modern PC hardware cna EASILY pull off 2x AA on most titles without much of an impact at all. It's not until you get past 4x AA or you're doing super sampling that performance starts to take a dive.

Kinthalis

I don't know what's wrong with ya'll.

I honestly don't know what to say.

it's only available for cards supporting dx 10.1 and 11.

it's only available for cards supporting dx 10.1 and 11.

crazyfist36

It's common for DEMOS, not to have complete access or no access at all to settings...

Anyway, not playing this, will wait for reviews, won't be fooled after Empire, if they only mention the words issues or bugs, no matter how important or not they are, I'm not getting, even if this is the sequel I wanted the most from the Total War series, but Empire was by far the worst game I ever bought (not because of the game itself, but I just couldn't play it because of bugs) and I avoided Napoleon when people said it was perfectly stable just to recently hear lots of complaints about bugs, lots of bugs, not as severe as Empire, but I won't risk it.

DanielDust

Napoleon was nearly bug free and ran about 50% better for me personally then Empire did, I knwo you had a bad experience with Empire, but they did a great job with Napoleon and same with Shogun2 demo. The demo runs more like Napoleon then Empire for me no doubt about it.

CA really did learn there lesson with Empire and did a fantastic job on Napoleon. The whole empire thing was almost a blessing for CA as it made them step there game up and improve in the performance/bugs/ai departments.

With some engines it takes a few tries to get everything down right, this is the case for CA and there latest Total War games. I would suggest giving Napoleon a try and the Shogun2 demo, both run much better then Empire did. Napoleon was a HUGE step forward for CA imo fom a performance/bug perspective, maybe not from a gameplay or feature aspect, but as far as bugs and performance there is a bgi differnce between Empire and Napoleon.

Isn't that what comanies are suppose to do? Learn from there mistakes? CA has done that and the performance between Empire and Napoleon was like day and night, even with Napoleon looking better.

AA makes a huge difference...when you own a PC that can utilize it without slowdown. It's an option because there are many PC gamers who can't afford a minimum $1200 rig that takes advantage of AA.

AA is extremely taxing on performance, that's why. Especially on games with lots of vegetation such as Shogun 2.

Whether it's useful or not depends on the game. For example, I turn it off in L4D2 to keep the framerate above 60 in 1080p. Plus you can rarely notice it while you're fending off zombies

AA makes a huge difference...when you own a PC that can utilize it without slowdown. It's an option because there are many PC gamers who can't afford a minimum $1200 rig that takes advantage of AA.

Skullcandy

I use 4xMSAA + MLAA in all of my games. Crysis is the exception, I use 2xMSAA + MLAA for that game.

I can assure you that my rig costs much less than $1200! I game at 1600x900 by the way although I will be upgrading to a 1080p monitor in the next few days. Then I might settle for 2xMSAA or just MLAA alone in all my games.

[QUOTE="crazyfist36"]

it's only available for cards supporting dx 10.1 and 11.

DanielDust

I dont think it's the card, My system spec: i7920, 4gb ddr3, EVGA GTX 470 1280mb SC, and the AA drop down list just didnt have any options for me, everything else is on Ultra, I turned everything on/max and still got a decent FPS and 1920 x 1080. Could it be an issue with the driver?

Yeah I'll only really use AA if I have the horsepower to spare, butyeah I could just leave it off all the time, at 1920x1080 there is little jaggies at all naturally, moreso the higher you go.

Itll come in handy for racing games, but a lot of games now arent as jagged as before where its very noticeable. I think 2x/4x is good enough.

[QUOTE="mep69"]because some people can't afford a high tech pc.chandlerr_360

AA is one of the largest taxing feature actually, followed by draw distance. In fact, many games can be handled by average and lower PCs at full graphics with no AA, but once you turn up the AA, you'll meet the FPS lagdom. WoW, Rift, NFS: World. All of those I can run at full graphics, 4x AA with decent framerates. If I drop the AA, I run the at max FPS and if I raise the AA, they become unplayable (except WoW, but yeah.) Granted, I don't have a high end pc anymore -- it's glory days were about three to four years ago.

[QUOTE="chandlerr_360"]

I just downloaded and played the Shogun 2 demo and noticed there was no option for AA (prob just because its the demo), but it made me wonder...why is AA even a option? It would make a hell of a lot more sense if every game just had a standard 4x AA built right into the formula. I mean, modern PC games look absolutely atrocious without AA imo, almost unplayable if visuals are a huge part of the game for you.

Does anyone know the actual technical reason why AA is a choice rather than a built in part of the game? I mean how hard is it for game developers to just make sure that edges are clean and not fuzzy, seems kind of sloppy to me.

Stinger78

[QUOTE="Stinger78"][QUOTE="chandlerr_360"]

I just downloaded and played the Shogun 2 demo and noticed there was no option for AA (prob just because its the demo), but it made me wonder...why is AA even a option? It would make a hell of a lot more sense if every game just had a standard 4x AA built right into the formula. I mean, modern PC games look absolutely atrocious without AA imo, almost unplayable if visuals are a huge part of the game for you.

Does anyone know the actual technical reason why AA is a choice rather than a built in part of the game? I mean how hard is it for game developers to just make sure that edges are clean and not fuzzy, seems kind of sloppy to me.

Inconsistancy

I max out all other graphics options before I even consider turning AA on. And if I do it's never more then 2x or 4x. It's not the biggest change compared to other graphics options (resolution, texture quality, shadows, ect.) but it seems to have the biggest impact sometimes.

[QUOTE="DanielDust"][QUOTE="crazyfist36"]

it's only available for cards supporting dx 10.1 and 11.

luv2dance1984

I dont think it's the card, My system spec: i7920, 4gb ddr3, EVGA GTX 470 1280mb SC, and the AA drop down list just didnt have any options for me, everything else is on Ultra, I turned everything on/max and still got a decent FPS and 1920 x 1080. Could it be an issue with the driver?

I don't know what I am doing wrong man... I am running a Q9550 @ 3.6GHz, a GTX470 + GTX260 for PhysX (had power to spare and a 260 I wasn't using), and 8GB of RAM... And I can't get a decent framerate...

Zoomed out usually the game runs fine, but I zoom in even on a single unit and my FPS drops to like mid 20s... And then when there is an actual large battle going on... I am getting like 10 fps zoomed in or out... This is with most settings at ultra... I mean wtf it doesn't look that much better than Napoleon and I had that game maxed easily with room to spare (popping 8x aa)...

[QUOTE="Stinger78"][QUOTE="chandlerr_360"]

I just downloaded and played the Shogun 2 demo and noticed there was no option for AA (prob just because its the demo), but it made me wonder...why is AA even a option? It would make a hell of a lot more sense if every game just had a standard 4x AA built right into the formula. I mean, modern PC games look absolutely atrocious without AA imo, almost unplayable if visuals are a huge part of the game for you.

Does anyone know the actual technical reason why AA is a choice rather than a built in part of the game? I mean how hard is it for game developers to just make sure that edges are clean and not fuzzy, seems kind of sloppy to me.

Inconsistancy