Why do you reject God and/or His Prophet Muhammad?

Judaism and Islam are COMPLETELY different. Judaism and Christianity are more similar to each other, historically. Islam came out of nowhere, while the other two religions basically continued from one another.

Macanada

[QUOTE="michaelP4"][QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]Secondly I want to know why western atheists believe what they believe, maybe it'll change my stance on things who knows.Vagal_Fiddle_6

[QUOTE="soldier-dark"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Actually it was to retake the holy land that had been taken over by the Muslims. It wasn't a counter. And chessmaster is right. Theo had the dates wrong.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Zathic"][QUOTE="nimatoad2000"]Islam is very violent religion. in the quaran it says something along the lines of " their is only one god, and muhammad is the only prophet, and those who do not accept this must be extinguished"nimatoad2000

[QUOTE="soldier-dark"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

And you aren't understanding what I'm saying: the roots of the three religions does not equal how the religions are now; perhaps if they were founded at the same time this would be true, but they are not, and since the beliefs of the Messiah and how he affects God are very, very crucial to the beliefs of all three religions, they cannot possibly be worshipping the same God.

Yes, they disagree on what God wants, and yes, they disagree on God's qualities; but it's God's wants and qualities that make Him God in the first place.

Theokhoth

And they became different gods when they began to disagree on what the God that spoke to Abraham actually said.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="MotherSuperior"] If you absolutely know of God, please share your knowledge with everyone.MotherSuperior

Strawman; I never said I did. I'm saying that for you to say nobody does is self-refuting--and immature. Children typically can't recognise that there are people in the world who may know something they don't.

When you have something substantial to say, I won't chop up your posts.

So you don't know that God exists?

Sure. I just can't prove it.

Damn.

Sucks, duhinit?

Surely I thought you could provide that knowledge.

No you didn't.

I guess my statement that nobody knows still stands true.

Nope. If you changed your statement to "nobody can prove it," it would make significantly more sense. As it stands, however, you are in fact claiming omniscience.

I'm quite aware of the fact that some people know things that I don't know.

Good, then you shouldn't have this big a problem acknowledging that there might be somebody who knows God exists among the seven billion people in the world besides yourself.

However by the same token, since it's impossible to know for a fact that God exists

Another omniscience claim.

, that knowledge is something that everyone alive will never learn.

[QUOTE="soldier-dark"][QUOTE="nimatoad2000"]Islam is very violent religion. in the quaran it says something along the lines of " their is only one god, and muhammad is the only prophet, and those who do not accept this must be extinguished"nimatoad2000

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Some people say Christianity only exists due to Egyptian paganism, but that doesn't mean we all worship Horus.

If you look into it, you find that the three are distinguishable. Jesus is the main key.

Theokhoth

It is in Christianity, too. . .

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]Judaism and Islam arent that much different, christianity is a bit away from both as worshipping a human as God is a deadly sin in both judaism and Islam.soldier-dark

It is in Christianity, too. . .

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="soldier-dark"] They all believe they are following the god that spoke to Abraham. This is why I consider it the same god in all religions.soldier-dark

And they became different gods when they began to disagree on what the God that spoke to Abraham actually said.

I hate it when people do this. If two people are in a room, and one says aliens exist, and the other says they don't, only one of them can be correct.

In other words: no, it isn't a matter of perception; either one of us is right, or we're both wrong and someone else is right. Chalking it up to perception and interpretation and preference is a waste of time.

[QUOTE="nimatoad2000"][QUOTE="soldier-dark"] I would suggest not going around trying to argue this when you yourself know that your quoting something roughly. It all has to do with translation and interpretation.Vagal_Fiddle_6

Hmm? Many people in different countries converted from Islam to Christianity or Judaism, and what did they recieve? DEATH THREATS, THREATS TO HURT THEIR FAMILY, ETC. Google it if you want.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]Judaism and Islam arent that much different, christianity is a bit away from both as worshipping a human as God is a deadly sin in both judaism and Islam.soldier-dark

It is in Christianity, too. . .

Because Islam is no more valid than any of the other umpty ump religions out there.

They all think they're right, they all have the same amount of evidence and they all lack quantifiable, physical proof to back their claims.

RadBooley

[QUOTE="soldier-dark"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

And they became different gods when they began to disagree on what the God that spoke to Abraham actually said.

Theokhoth

I hate it when people do this. If two people are in a room, and one says aliens exist, and the other says they don't, only one of them can be correct.

In other words: no, it isn't a matter of perception; either one of us is right, or we're both wrong and someone else is right. Chalking it up to perception and interpretation and preference is a waste of time.

[QUOTE="RadBooley"]

Because Islam is no more valid than any of the other umpty ump religions out there.

They all think they're right, they all have the same amount of evidence and they all lack quantifiable, physical proof to back their claims.

Vagal_Fiddle_6

I did. I've been following it, actually.

However, reading the thread didn't change my conclusion.

Look, let's take the Bible. People will take the same version of it, yet they claim it's saying different things. It's still the same bible, but they think it means different things. Same with the interpretation of God's words to Abraham.soldier-dark

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="Zathic"] Islam is not a violent religion don't take hear-say from your friends (or whoever) as truth or you will come off looking ignorant as you have.Zathic

[QUOTE="MotherSuperior"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Strawman; I never said I did. I'm saying that for you to say nobody does is self-refuting--and immature. Children typically can't recognise that there are people in the world who may know something they don't.

Theokhoth

When you have something substantial to say, I won't chop up your posts.

So you don't know that God exists?

Sure. I just can't prove it.

Damn.

Sucks, duhinit?

Surely I thought you could provide that knowledge.

No you didn't.

I guess my statement that nobody knows still stands true.

Nope. If you changed your statement to "nobody can prove it," it would make significantly more sense. As it stands, however, you are in fact claiming omniscience.

I'm quite aware of the fact that some people know things that I don't know.

Good, then you shouldn't have this big a problem acknowledging that there might be somebody who knows God exists among the seven billion people in the world besides yourself.

However by the same token, since it's impossible to know for a fact that God exists

Another omniscience claim.

, that knowledge is something that everyone alive will never learn.

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"][QUOTE="nimatoad2000"] my dad has read the quaran many times, in farsi, so nothing gets ruined in the translation.. it says if you do not believe, you must die.. in iran they kill people if you do not believe.. argue that.Macanada

Hmm? Many people in different countries converted from Islam to Christianity or Judaism, and what did they recieve? DEATH THREATS, THREATS TO HURT THEIR FAMILY, ETC. Google it if you want.

He did not say every Muslim is violent. If a religion commits significant amounts of violence (and the only way a religion can do anything is when believers act in it's name), saying it is violent seems like a fair statement.Gallion-Beast

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="soldier-dark"] That's up to personal perception. I would still consider it the same god, but people having different interpretations on it.soldier-dark

I hate it when people do this. If two people are in a room, and one says aliens exist, and the other says they don't, only one of them can be correct.

In other words: no, it isn't a matter of perception; either one of us is right, or we're both wrong and someone else is right. Chalking it up to perception and interpretation and preference is a waste of time.

Yes, and many interpretations amount to a load of ****. There's one interpretation that says the Garden was in Atlantis; there's another that says the prophet Daniel was a modern-day man who went back in time and invented CD's; the fact that an interpretation exists does not and can not by any conceivable rule of logic make it automatically equal to any and every other. This kind of postmodern garbage is parasitic in that all it encourages is intellectual dishonesty and lazy thinking; "Oh, you have your way and I have mine, so let's all stop trying to improve/find the truth of the matter, 'cuz we're all right!"

[QUOTE="Gallion-Beast"] He did not say every Muslim is violent. If a religion commits significant amounts of violence (and the only way a religion can do anything is when believers act in it's name), saying it is violent seems like a fair statement.LJS9502_basic

True, but you've got to admit, he has got a point.

How many violent Buddhist monks are out there? :P

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="MotherSuperior"] Chopping up my posts again, I see.

When you have something substantial to say, I won't chop up your posts.

So you don't know that God exists?

Sure. I just can't prove it.

Damn.

Sucks, duhinit?

Surely I thought you could provide that knowledge.

No you didn't.

I guess my statement that nobody knows still stands true.

Nope. If you changed your statement to "nobody can prove it," it would make significantly more sense. As it stands, however, you are in fact claiming omniscience.

I'm quite aware of the fact that some people know things that I don't know.

Good, then you shouldn't have this big a problem acknowledging that there might be somebody who knows God exists among the seven billion people in the world besides yourself.

However by the same token, since it's impossible to know for a fact that God exists

Another omniscience claim.

, that knowledge is something that everyone alive will never learn.

MotherSuperior

No, you just kept insulting me and saying you were done with the discussion. . .

Instead, I choose to include every word so people can read your foolishness.

Goody; I did the nice thing by eliminating most of yours.

Anyway, I guess you're right that a person could personally know that God exists, but that would be purely opinionated or delusional thinking. Not factual knowledge.

Factual knowledge is not based on universal proof, so no, it wouldn't necessarily be based on opinion or delusion (a delusion is when the facts go the opposite way. . .).

[QUOTE="Infinite-Zr0"][QUOTE="nimatoad2000"]Islam is very violent religion. in the quaran it says something along the lines of " their is only one god, and muhammad is the only prophet, and those who do not accept this must be extinguished"Wolf-Man2006

The Crusades were only done by people who called themselves Christians.

Anyway, I believe in the one God, that Jesus was the son of God, and that the Bible is the word of God. I reject Allah and his Prophet Muhammad for that reason.

[QUOTE="soldier-dark"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

I hate it when people do this. If two people are in a room, and one says aliens exist, and the other says they don't, only one of them can be correct.

In other words: no, it isn't a matter of perception; either one of us is right, or we're both wrong and someone else is right. Chalking it up to perception and interpretation and preference is a waste of time.

Theokhoth

Yes, and many interpretations amount to a load of ****. There's one interpretation that says the Garden was in Atlantis; there's another that says the prophet Daniel was a modern-day man who went back in time and invented CD's; the fact that an interpretation exists does not and can not by any conceivable rule of logic make it automatically equal to any and every other. This kind of postmodern garbage is parasitic in that all it encourages is intellectual dishonesty and lazy thinking; "Oh, you have your way and I have mine, so let's all stop trying to improve/find the truth of the matter, 'cuz we're all right!"

[QUOTE="Wolf-Man2006"]

[QUOTE="Infinite-Zr0"] You've never heard of the Christian Crusades?Vagal_Fiddle_6

The Crusades were only done by people who called themselves Christians.

Anyway, I believe in the one God, that Jesus was the son of God, and that the Bible is the word of God. I reject Allah and his Prophet Muhammad for that reason.

Because God has nothing to do with science. All science should be credited to man (and woman)

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="soldier-dark"] Look, let's take the Bible. People will take the same version of it, yet they claim it's saying different things. It's still the same bible, but they think it means different things. Same with the interpretation of God's words to Abraham.soldier-dark

Yes, and many interpretations amount to a load of ****. There's one interpretation that says the Garden was in Atlantis; there's another that says the prophet Daniel was a modern-day man who went back in time and invented CD's; the fact that an interpretation exists does not and can not by any conceivable rule of logic make it automatically equal to any and every other. This kind of postmodern garbage is parasitic in that all it encourages is intellectual dishonesty and lazy thinking; "Oh, you have your way and I have mine, so let's all stop trying to improve/find the truth of the matter, 'cuz we're all right!"

That's fine, but they way they're reading it may be completely wrong. Both people can look into space and disagree on the existence of aliens, but only one can be right.

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"][QUOTE="Wolf-Man2006"]

The Crusades were only done by people who called themselves Christians.

Anyway, I believe in the one God, that Jesus was the son of God, and that the Bible is the word of God. I reject Allah and his Prophet Muhammad for that reason.

Macanada

Because God has nothing to do with science. All science should be credited to man (and woman)

[QUOTE="Gallion-Beast"] He did not say every Muslim is violent. If a religion commits significant amounts of violence (and the only way a religion can do anything is when believers act in it's name), saying it is violent seems like a fair statement.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Macanada"]

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]Why would God's word have grave scientific flaws??LJS9502_basic

Because God has nothing to do with science. All science should be credited to man (and woman)

Yes, the way you said it sounds much better and understandable :P

Rejecting Muhammad as a prophet does not mean one is rejecting God.

LJS9502_basic

In my opinion it seemed like he was saying that every Muslim is violent or is taught to do violent things through the Koran. Just because people say they do things for a religion doesn't mean the religion had anything to do with it. Many times people who do terrible things in the name of religion do it for their own personal gain and twist the religion to fit their needs.Zathic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Gallion-Beast"] He did not say every Muslim is violent. If a religion commits significant amounts of violence (and the only way a religion can do anything is when believers act in it's name), saying it is violent seems like a fair statement.Gallion-Beast

[QUOTE="Zathic"]In my opinion it seemed like he was saying that every Muslim is violent or is taught to do violent things through the Koran. Just because people say they do things for a religion doesn't mean the religion had anything to do with it. Many times people who do terrible things in the name of religion do it for their own personal gain and twist the religion to fit their needs.Gallion-Beast

Exactly. What benefit would someone have to blow themselves up other than what religion promises them in the afterlife? It all relates to religion.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="Zathic"] Islam is not a violent religion don't take hear-say from your friends (or whoever) as truth or you will come off looking ignorant as you have.Zathic