This topic is locked from further discussion.
not really, and you know that is also a dumb comparison.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
No it isn't. And quite frankly that's a stupid comparison. A better comparison would be what the US did to Native Americans.
worlock77
Continually encroaching into their territory. Violating agreed upon treaties. Denying citizenship. Restricting their ability to support themselves. Sounds like a pretty fair comparison to me.
Welcome to the history of the world. Enjoy your stay.
[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] not really, and you know that is also a dumb comparison.Darkman2007
Continually encroaching into their territory. Violating agreed upon treaties. Denying citizenship. Restricting their ability to support themselves. Sounds like a pretty fair comparison to me.
I never knew the Arabs of the West Bank were meant to get a citizenship. but we could solve it the way the US solved the Indian problem , that is, kill most of them and let the ones left live in peace. I think they would have something to do with it. and unlike the Americans , I actually have connections to that land, and historical right does mean something. That's insulting to Native Americans, saying they don't have a tie to North America? Give me a break. I'm also guessing you are Palestinian? Just saying, you're not special (no offense.) Lots of people who were pushed out of their land or lost their land due to a revolt have gone through hard times.[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] not really, and you know that is also a dumb comparison.LJS9502_basic
Continually encroaching into their territory. Violating agreed upon treaties. Denying citizenship. Restricting their ability to support themselves. Sounds like a pretty fair comparison to me.
Welcome to the history of the world. Enjoy your stay.Right, since historical precident totally justifies current happenings.
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]I never knew the Arabs of the West Bank were meant to get a citizenship. but we could solve it the way the US solved the Indian problem , that is, kill most of them and let the ones left live in peace. I think they would have something to do with it. and unlike the Americans , I actually have connections to that land, and historical right does mean something. That's insulting to Native Americans, saying they don't have a tie to North America? Give me a break. I'm also guessing you are Palestinian? Just saying, you're not special (no offense.) Lots of people who were pushed out of their land or lost their land due to a revolt have gone through hard times.Continually encroaching into their territory. Violating agreed upon treaties. Denying citizenship. Restricting their ability to support themselves. Sounds like a pretty fair comparison to me.
cslayer211
Uhhh........
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]I never knew the Arabs of the West Bank were meant to get a citizenship. but we could solve it the way the US solved the Indian problem , that is, kill most of them and let the ones left live in peace. I think they would have something to do with it. and unlike the Americans , I actually have connections to that land, and historical right does mean something. That's insulting to Native Americans, saying they don't have a tie to North America? Give me a break. I'm also guessing you are Palestinian? Just saying, you're not special (no offense.) Lots of people who were pushed out of their land or lost their land due to a revolt have gone through hard times.I think you misinterpreted the post....Continually encroaching into their territory. Violating agreed upon treaties. Denying citizenship. Restricting their ability to support themselves. Sounds like a pretty fair comparison to me.
cslayer211
Welcome to the history of the world. Enjoy your stay.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
Continually encroaching into their territory. Violating agreed upon treaties. Denying citizenship. Restricting their ability to support themselves. Sounds like a pretty fair comparison to me.
worlock77
Right, since historical precident totally justifies current happenings.
When two countries have an issue....I say leave them to deal with it. Period. There will always been problems like this. But since it's Israel/ME all the pseudo intellectuals of OT have to chime in with their worthless opinions. Leave the problem where it belongs....
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]I actually have connections to that land, and historical right does mean something.worlock77
I guess that answers my previous question. Sweet. I love the idea of being an English lord.
historical right matters because the non Jews did not want the Jews to live amongst them in Europe and the MIddle East , they made it quite clear, you can't change your perception whenever it suits you, if you do not want the Jews to live amongst you, don't complain when some of them want to go back to where their ancestors lived. as for your ties to England, do what you want, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Welcome to the history of the world. Enjoy your stay.LJS9502_basic
Right, since historical precident totally justifies current happenings.
When two countries have an issue....I say leave them to deal with it. Period. There will always been problems like this. But since it's Israel/ME all the pseudo intellectuals of OT have to chime in with their worthless opinions. Leave the problem where it belongs....Then perhaps you should leave your worthless opinion out of it as well.
[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"]I actually have connections to that land, and historical right does mean something.Darkman2007
I guess that answers my previous question. Sweet. I love the idea of being an English lord.
historical right matters because the non Jews did not want the Jews to live amongst them in Europe and the MIddle East , they made it quite clear, you can't change your perception whenever it suits you, if you do not want the Jews to live amongst you, don't complain when some of them want to go back to where their ancestors lived. as for your ties to England, do what you want, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.I've never had a problem with Jews living amongst me.
When two countries have an issue....I say leave them to deal with it. Period. There will always been problems like this. But since it's Israel/ME all the pseudo intellectuals of OT have to chime in with their worthless opinions. Leave the problem where it belongs....[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
Right, since historical precident totally justifies current happenings.
worlock77
Then perhaps you should leave your worthless opinion out of it as well.
I'm not presenting my opinion on what should happen. Sorry you cannot understand what you read. But hey...rage on and on like you do in most every thread.[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Welcome to the history of the world. Enjoy your stay.LJS9502_basic
Right, since historical precident totally justifies current happenings.
When two countries have an issue....I say leave them to deal with it. Period. There will always been problems like this. But since it's Israel/ME all the pseudo intellectuals of OT have to chime in with their worthless opinions. Leave the problem where it belongs....Chiming in with worthless opinions is what OT is all about. Plus calling people 'pseudo intellectuals' either implies a lack of self worth on your behalf. Or a serious superiority complex.
Either way you are being condecending.
When two countries have an issue....I say leave them to deal with it. Period. There will always been problems like this. But since it's Israel/ME all the pseudo intellectuals of OT have to chime in with their worthless opinions. Leave the problem where it belongs....[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
Right, since historical precident totally justifies current happenings.
tenaka2
Chiming in with worthless opinions is what OT is all about. Plus calling people 'pseudo intellectuals' either implies a lack of self worth on your behalf. Or a serious superiority complex.
Either way you are being condecending.
Good. Some people deserve that. Don't become one of them....[QUOTE="tenaka2"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] When two countries have an issue....I say leave them to deal with it. Period. There will always been problems like this. But since it's Israel/ME all the pseudo intellectuals of OT have to chime in with their worthless opinions. Leave the problem where it belongs....LJS9502_basic
Chiming in with worthless opinions is what OT is all about. Plus calling people 'pseudo intellectuals' either implies a lack of self worth on your behalf. Or a serious superiority complex.
Either way you are being condecending.
Good. Some people deserve that. Don't become one of them....I am missing your point, are you suggesting that people should not have opinions while posting in a debate forum?
Wouldn't that make for extremely bland topics?
historical right matters because the non Jews did not want the Jews to live amongst them in Europe and the MIddle East , they made it quite clear, you can't change your perception whenever it suits you, if you do not want the Jews to live amongst you, don't complain when some of them want to go back to where their ancestors lived. as for your ties to England, do what you want, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
I guess that answers my previous question. Sweet. I love the idea of being an English lord.
worlock77
I've never had a problem with Jews living amongst me.
and yet , you know that Jews were not welcome throughout history, just because you disagree with what was done, doesn't mean it didn't happen , I disagree with slavery, but that doesn't mean slavery didn't happen , or doesn't happen. heck sometimes it was not even hatred, it was just plain knowledge that Jews were outsiders. one has to simply face historical facts, things happen and consequences occured because of it.Good. Some people deserve that. Don't become one of them....[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]
Chiming in with worthless opinions is what OT is all about. Plus calling people 'pseudo intellectuals' either implies a lack of self worth on your behalf. Or a serious superiority complex.
Either way you are being condecending.
tenaka2
I am missing your point, are you suggesting that people should not have opinions while posting in a debate forum?
Wouldn't that make for extremely bland topics?
No. It's fine to have different points of view....though on some topics OT seems to have almost unanimously one point of view and they attack differing viewpoints. Which was my point. And then there are those insufferable users that just attack rather than discuss. Those are the ones I'm referring to in my above post. Come on dude....you know we don't always agree but we do discuss...no?[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] When two countries have an issue....I say leave them to deal with it. Period. There will always been problems like this. But since it's Israel/ME all the pseudo intellectuals of OT have to chime in with their worthless opinions. Leave the problem where it belongs....LJS9502_basic
Then perhaps you should leave your worthless opinion out of it as well.
I'm not presenting my opinion on what should happen. Sorry you cannot understand what you read. But hey...rage on and on like you do in most every thread.Yet you still felt it necessary to inject your douchebaggery into this thread.
I'm not presenting my opinion on what should happen. Sorry you cannot understand what you read. But hey...rage on and on like you do in most every thread.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
Then perhaps you should leave your worthless opinion out of it as well.
worlock77
Yet you still felt it necessary to inject your douchebaggery into this thread.
My mistake. You don't like to share douchebaggery when you're in a thread. It's all you and you're doing a hell of a job in OT. Kudos.[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] historical right matters because the non Jews did not want the Jews to live amongst them in Europe and the MIddle East , they made it quite clear, you can't change your perception whenever it suits you, if you do not want the Jews to live amongst you, don't complain when some of them want to go back to where their ancestors lived. as for your ties to England, do what you want, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.Darkman2007
I've never had a problem with Jews living amongst me.
and yet , you know that Jews were not welcome throughout history, just because you disagree with what was done, doesn't mean it didn't happen , I disagree with slavery, but that doesn't mean slavery didn't happen , or doesn't happen. heck sometimes it was not even hatred, it was just plain knowledge that Jews were outsiders. one has to simply face historical facts, things happen and consequences occured because of it.What the f*ck are you on about? I've never claimed that persecution of Jews didn't happen. I'm simply disputing the idea that your ancestors living in a particular place long ago give you rights over that land now.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Good. Some people deserve that. Don't become one of them....LJS9502_basic
I am missing your point, are you suggesting that people should not have opinions while posting in a debate forum?
Wouldn't that make for extremely bland topics?
No. It's fine to have different points of view....though on some topics OT seems to have almost unanimously one point of view and they attack differing viewpoints. Which was my point. And then there are those insufferable users that just attack rather than discuss. Those are the ones I'm referring to in my above post. Come on dude....you know we don't always agree but we do discuss...no?Yeah I know what you mean, to be honest I only asked because you reply seemed more aimed at users rather then the topic in hand. But I agree some topics are strictly divided, this being one of them. Supporting either side makes you a monster in the others eyes.
[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I'm not presenting my opinion on what should happen. Sorry you cannot understand what you read. But hey...rage on and on like you do in most every thread.LJS9502_basic
Yet you still felt it necessary to inject your douchebaggery into this thread.
My mistake. You don't like to share douchebaggery when you're in a thread. It's all you and you're doing a hell of a job in OT. Kudos.No, you're perfectly free to inject your douchebaggery in any thread you wish. Just don't b*tch that others are doing so.
No. It's fine to have different points of view....though on some topics OT seems to have almost unanimously one point of view and they attack differing viewpoints. Which was my point. And then there are those insufferable users that just attack rather than discuss. Those are the ones I'm referring to in my above post. Come on dude....you know we don't always agree but we do discuss...no?[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]
I am missing your point, are you suggesting that people should not have opinions while posting in a debate forum?
Wouldn't that make for extremely bland topics?
tenaka2
Yeah I know what you mean, to be honest I only asked because you reply seemed more aimed at users rather then the topic in hand. But I agree some topics are strictly divided, this being one of them. Supporting either side makes you a monster in the others eyes.
Hence I think it's best to let it be resolved the way countries often resolve issues like this. Will it be painless? No. But it will be finished eventually.My mistake. You don't like to share douchebaggery when you're in a thread. It's all you and you're doing a hell of a job in OT. Kudos.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
Yet you still felt it necessary to inject your douchebaggery into this thread.
worlock77
No, you're perfectly free to inject your douchebaggery in any thread you wish. Just don't b*tch that others are doing so.
That would be a full time job if I had to point it out every time I see you do it. I don't think I'm up to that task. Have fun insulting users you disagree with as always. Cheers.and yet , you know that Jews were not welcome throughout history, just because you disagree with what was done, doesn't mean it didn't happen , I disagree with slavery, but that doesn't mean slavery didn't happen , or doesn't happen. heck sometimes it was not even hatred, it was just plain knowledge that Jews were outsiders. one has to simply face historical facts, things happen and consequences occured because of it.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
I've never had a problem with Jews living amongst me.
worlock77
What the f*ck are you on about? I've never claimed that persecution of Jews didn't happen. I'm simply disputing the idea that your ancestors living in a particular place long ago give you rights over that land now.
bottom line, non Jews did not want Jews to live amongst them (some still don't , lets be honest), and made it quite clear, hence why some Jews are going to leave. again , don't change your perceptions based on what suits you , if the Jews are outsiders, then they will leave, its very simple, don't expect that if society changes all of a sudden , Jews will be utterly grateful and forget everything. and if my history doesn't matter, then we should just throw all Arabs out, since their history has no meaning either in this case[QUOTE="tenaka2"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No. It's fine to have different points of view....though on some topics OT seems to have almost unanimously one point of view and they attack differing viewpoints. Which was my point. And then there are those insufferable users that just attack rather than discuss. Those are the ones I'm referring to in my above post. Come on dude....you know we don't always agree but we do discuss...no?LJS9502_basic
Yeah I know what you mean, to be honest I only asked because you reply seemed more aimed at users rather then the topic in hand. But I agree some topics are strictly divided, this being one of them. Supporting either side makes you a monster in the others eyes.
Hence I think it's best to let it be resolved the way countries often resolve issues like this. Will it be painless? No. But it will be finished eventually.But without the support and intervention of the west things could get very messy indeed, wouldn't it eventually break down into all out war israel vs a number of me states?
Hence I think it's best to let it be resolved the way countries often resolve issues like this. Will it be painless? No. But it will be finished eventually.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]
Yeah I know what you mean, to be honest I only asked because you reply seemed more aimed at users rather then the topic in hand. But I agree some topics are strictly divided, this being one of them. Supporting either side makes you a monster in the others eyes.
tenaka2
But without the support and intervention of the west things could get very messy indeed, wouldn't it eventually break down into all out war israel vs a number of me states?
Maybe. Might end it quicker and all though. But I'm not adverse to countries getting involved per se but users trying to change how countries handle things. It's the proclamation that it's wrong that was most egregious. Sometimes it takes an operation to end a nagging pain so to speak.[QUOTE="tenaka2"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Hence I think it's best to let it be resolved the way countries often resolve issues like this. Will it be painless? No. But it will be finished eventually.LJS9502_basic
But without the support and intervention of the west things could get very messy indeed, wouldn't it eventually break down into all out war israel vs a number of me states?
Maybe. Might end it quicker and all though. But I'm not adverse to countries getting involved per se but users trying to change how countries handle things. It's the proclamation that it's wrong that was most egregious. Sometimes it takes an operation to end a nagging pain so to speak.But the nukes make it more complicated, if israel use them against countries they will be condemed, if other m.e. countries did manage to defeat israel they might get control of the nukes which could be even worse.
Personally I think both sides are at fault.
Maybe. Might end it quicker and all though. But I'm not adverse to countries getting involved per se but users trying to change how countries handle things. It's the proclamation that it's wrong that was most egregious. Sometimes it takes an operation to end a nagging pain so to speak.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]
But without the support and intervention of the west things could get very messy indeed, wouldn't it eventually break down into all out war israel vs a number of me states?
tenaka2
But the nukes make it more complicated, if israel use them against countries they will be condemed, if other m.e. countries did manage to defeat israel they might get control of the nukes which could be even worse.
Personally I think both sides are at fault.
I don't think nukes are an issue unless some unstable individual is in charge of a country. Most countries won't use them.[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] and yet , you know that Jews were not welcome throughout history, just because you disagree with what was done, doesn't mean it didn't happen , I disagree with slavery, but that doesn't mean slavery didn't happen , or doesn't happen. heck sometimes it was not even hatred, it was just plain knowledge that Jews were outsiders. one has to simply face historical facts, things happen and consequences occured because of it.Darkman2007
What the f*ck are you on about? I've never claimed that persecution of Jews didn't happen. I'm simply disputing the idea that your ancestors living in a particular place long ago give you rights over that land now.
bottom line, non Jews did not want Jews to live amongst them (some still don't , lets be honest), and made it quite clear, hence why some Jews are going to leave. again , don't change your perceptions based on what suits you , if the Jews are outsiders, then they will leave, its very simple, don't expect that if society changes all of a sudden , Jews will be utterly grateful and forget everything. and if my history doesn't matter, then we should just throw all Arabs out, since their history has no meaning either in this case- I'm not changing my perspective. Not sure why you keep stating that. And again, I've not claimed that persecution of Jews didn't happen.
- Except that Palestinians where actually there, in the present, when Jews came in driving them out with the claim that "this land is ours because it belonged to our ancestors".
[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] My mistake. You don't like to share douchebaggery when you're in a thread. It's all you and you're doing a hell of a job in OT. Kudos.LJS9502_basic
No, you're perfectly free to inject your douchebaggery in any thread you wish. Just don't b*tch that others are doing so.
That would be a full time job if I had to point it out every time I see you do it. I don't think I'm up to that task. Have fun insulting users you disagree with as always. Cheers.I don't b*tch that people are posting their opinion. You do. Slight difference there.
But I'm not adverse to countries getting involved per se but users trying to change how countries handle things. LJS9502_basic
Nobody here is "trying to change" sh*t. With the exception of, apparently, you, I doubt that anyone here is under any delusion that simply stating our opinion on a message board is going to have some world-altering geopolitical consequences.
bottom line, non Jews did not want Jews to live amongst them (some still don't , lets be honest), and made it quite clear, hence why some Jews are going to leave. again , don't change your perceptions based on what suits you , if the Jews are outsiders, then they will leave, its very simple, don't expect that if society changes all of a sudden , Jews will be utterly grateful and forget everything. and if my history doesn't matter, then we should just throw all Arabs out, since their history has no meaning either in this case[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
What the f*ck are you on about? I've never claimed that persecution of Jews didn't happen. I'm simply disputing the idea that your ancestors living in a particular place long ago give you rights over that land now.
worlock77
- I'm not changing my perspective. Not sure why you keep stating that. And again, I've not claimed that persecution of Jews didn't happen.
- Except that Palestinians where actually there, in the present, when Jews came in driving them out with the claim that "this land is ours because it belonged to our ancestors".
Im afraid that you are changing your perceptions, go back not too far back in time, and you will find that Jews were for the most part , seen as an outsider people. history has consequences, and you have to realize that, and the creation of a Jewish state was the result of that , deal with it, its history.
furthermore, no country wanted to accept the Jews when they needed help, the US , the UK and others only accepted limited amounts of Jews at best , and told the rest to turn back. now do I blame them? not really, no one wants to deal with hundreds of thousands of refugees, but if youre going to reject them , don't complain when they go to the one place they feel they can go to, and thats their former home.
so they were there, whats your point? if history doesn't matter, they had no more right to be there, than anybody else, after all , the Arabs themselves simply replaced the former rulers of the land , the Byzantine Romans, who replaced the Jews, if history is simply random , then nobody has a right to live anywhere, its as simple as that.
either history is important (because it is the basis for everything) , or not important, you can't have both.
That would be a full time job if I had to point it out every time I see you do it. I don't think I'm up to that task. Have fun insulting users you disagree with as always. Cheers.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
No, you're perfectly free to inject your douchebaggery in any thread you wish. Just don't b*tch that others are doing so.
worlock77
I don't b*tch that people are posting their opinion. You do. Slight difference there.
You're b*tching now. :lol:[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] bottom line, non Jews did not want Jews to live amongst them (some still don't , lets be honest), and made it quite clear, hence why some Jews are going to leave. again , don't change your perceptions based on what suits you , if the Jews are outsiders, then they will leave, its very simple, don't expect that if society changes all of a sudden , Jews will be utterly grateful and forget everything. and if my history doesn't matter, then we should just throw all Arabs out, since their history has no meaning either in this caseDarkman2007
- I'm not changing my perspective. Not sure why you keep stating that. And again, I've not claimed that persecution of Jews didn't happen.
- Except that Palestinians where actually there, in the present, when Jews came in driving them out with the claim that "this land is ours because it belonged to our ancestors".
Im afraid that you are changing your perceptions, go back not too far back in time, and you will find that Jews were for the most part , seen as an outsider people. history has consequences, and you have to realize that, and the creation of a Jewish state was the result of that , deal with it, its history. so they were there, whats your point? if history doesn't matter, they had no more right to be there, than anybody else, after all , the Arabs themselves simply replaced the former rulers of the land , the Byzantine Romans, who replaced the Jews, if history is simply random , then nobody has a right to live anywhere, its as simple as that. either history is important (because it is the basis for everything) , or not important, you can't have both.- No, I'm not. Not sure what your problem is there.
- They had the right to be there because they were there. They were, at the time, the ones born on the land, working the land, living off the land. That gave them the right to be there. Just as I think that Jews living in Israel now have the right to be there, not because of history, but because they are there. Land belongs to those who live upon it, those who work it and make it fruitful. Jews then did not have a right to the land, but that's done and cannot be changed. Jews now have a right to it because they have been living there and working the land for a few generations now. And Palestinians have a right to their land as well, which is why I oppose (and to be frank my particular oppositition doesn't amount to much) further Israeli settlements into Palestinian territory.
Im afraid that you are changing your perceptions, go back not too far back in time, and you will find that Jews were for the most part , seen as an outsider people. history has consequences, and you have to realize that, and the creation of a Jewish state was the result of that , deal with it, its history. so they were there, whats your point? if history doesn't matter, they had no more right to be there, than anybody else, after all , the Arabs themselves simply replaced the former rulers of the land , the Byzantine Romans, who replaced the Jews, if history is simply random , then nobody has a right to live anywhere, its as simple as that. either history is important (because it is the basis for everything) , or not important, you can't have both.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
- I'm not changing my perspective. Not sure why you keep stating that. And again, I've not claimed that persecution of Jews didn't happen.
- Except that Palestinians where actually there, in the present, when Jews came in driving them out with the claim that "this land is ours because it belonged to our ancestors".
worlock77
- No, I'm not. Not sure what your problem is there.
- They had the right to be there because they were there. They were, at the time, the ones born on the land, working the land, living off the land. That gave them the right to be there. Just as I think that Jews living in Israel now have the right to be there, not because of history, but because they are there. Land belongs to those who live upon it, those who work it and make it fruitful. Jews then did not have a right to the land, but that's done and cannot be changed. Jews now have a right to it because they have been living there and working the land for a few generations now. And Palestinians have a right to their land as well, which is why I oppose (and to be frank my particular oppositition doesn't amount to much) further Israeli settlements into Palestinian territory.
again ,yes you are, if youre not a Jew, then yes, youre essentially going against and yes, basically denying the attitude towards the Jews. and yes, its denial , if it wasn't you would know exactly why the Jews decided to leave, its utter dishonesty , its almost like an abusive relationship , where the husband is complaining why the wife has ran away after getting abuse for a long time, its pretty obvious. you (by you , I mean non Jews in general) , did not want the Jews among you, just because you change your mind every so often, doesn't mean the Jews will be your lapdogs and just follow along, eventually they will walk away, which most of them did.[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] Im afraid that you are changing your perceptions, go back not too far back in time, and you will find that Jews were for the most part , seen as an outsider people. history has consequences, and you have to realize that, and the creation of a Jewish state was the result of that , deal with it, its history. so they were there, whats your point? if history doesn't matter, they had no more right to be there, than anybody else, after all , the Arabs themselves simply replaced the former rulers of the land , the Byzantine Romans, who replaced the Jews, if history is simply random , then nobody has a right to live anywhere, its as simple as that. either history is important (because it is the basis for everything) , or not important, you can't have both.Darkman2007
- No, I'm not. Not sure what your problem is there.
- They had the right to be there because they were there. They were, at the time, the ones born on the land, working the land, living off the land. That gave them the right to be there. Just as I think that Jews living in Israel now have the right to be there, not because of history, but because they are there. Land belongs to those who live upon it, those who work it and make it fruitful. Jews then did not have a right to the land, but that's done and cannot be changed. Jews now have a right to it because they have been living there and working the land for a few generations now. And Palestinians have a right to their land as well, which is why I oppose (and to be frank my particular oppositition doesn't amount to much) further Israeli settlements into Palestinian territory.
again ,yes you are, if youre not a Jew, then yes, youre essentially going against and yes, basically denying the attitude towards the Jews. and yes, its denial , if it wasn't you would know exactly why the Jews decided to leave, its utter dishonesty , its almost like an abusive relationship , where the husband is complaining why the wife has ran away after getting abuse for a long time, its pretty obvious. you (by you , I mean non Jews in general) , did not want the Jews among you, just because you change your mind every so often, doesn't mean the Jews will be your lapdogs and just follow along, eventually they will walk away, which most of them did.By conflating me personally with non-Jewish folks from decades before I was born you're essentially charging me with arguments I've never made, posititions I've never taken, and views I've never held. If you insist upon doing so then further conversation with you is entirely pointless.
again ,yes you are, if youre not a Jew, then yes, youre essentially going against and yes, basically denying the attitude towards the Jews. and yes, its denial , if it wasn't you would know exactly why the Jews decided to leave, its utter dishonesty , its almost like an abusive relationship , where the husband is complaining why the wife has ran away after getting abuse for a long time, its pretty obvious. you (by you , I mean non Jews in general) , did not want the Jews among you, just because you change your mind every so often, doesn't mean the Jews will be your lapdogs and just follow along, eventually they will walk away, which most of them did.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
- No, I'm not. Not sure what your problem is there.
- They had the right to be there because they were there. They were, at the time, the ones born on the land, working the land, living off the land. That gave them the right to be there. Just as I think that Jews living in Israel now have the right to be there, not because of history, but because they are there. Land belongs to those who live upon it, those who work it and make it fruitful. Jews then did not have a right to the land, but that's done and cannot be changed. Jews now have a right to it because they have been living there and working the land for a few generations now. And Palestinians have a right to their land as well, which is why I oppose (and to be frank my particular oppositition doesn't amount to much) further Israeli settlements into Palestinian territory.
worlock77
By conflating me personally with non-Jewish folks from decades before I was born you're essentially charging me with arguments I've never made, posititions I've never taken, and views I've never held. If you insist upon doing so then further conversation with you is entirely pointless.
Im not blaming you on a personal level , but what I am blaming you for pretty much ignoring history , by pretty much saying "well, society did not want the Jews, it tried to exterminate them several times, so what, who cares, they had no right to leave". again , its a matter of historical consequence, you can't just wash your hands of history and pretend like nothing happend.again ,yes you are, if youre not a Jew, then yes, youre essentially going against and yes, basically denying the attitude towards the Jews. and yes, its denial , if it wasn't you would know exactly why the Jews decided to leave, its utter dishonesty , its almost like an abusive relationship , where the husband is complaining why the wife has ran away after getting abuse for a long time, its pretty obvious. you (by you , I mean non Jews in general) , did not want the Jews among you, just because you change your mind every so often, doesn't mean the Jews will be your lapdogs and just follow along, eventually they will walk away, which most of them did.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
- No, I'm not. Not sure what your problem is there.
- They had the right to be there because they were there. They were, at the time, the ones born on the land, working the land, living off the land. That gave them the right to be there. Just as I think that Jews living in Israel now have the right to be there, not because of history, but because they are there. Land belongs to those who live upon it, those who work it and make it fruitful. Jews then did not have a right to the land, but that's done and cannot be changed. Jews now have a right to it because they have been living there and working the land for a few generations now. And Palestinians have a right to their land as well, which is why I oppose (and to be frank my particular oppositition doesn't amount to much) further Israeli settlements into Palestinian territory.
worlock77
By conflating me personally with non-Jewish folks from decades before I was born you're essentially charging me with arguments I've never made, posititions I've never taken, and views I've never held. If you insist upon doing so then further conversation with you is entirely pointless.
don't bother man ive had the same argument he will never accept what isreal is doing is wrong. u can see how he twist and puts words in your mouth.[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] again ,yes you are, if youre not a Jew, then yes, youre essentially going against and yes, basically denying the attitude towards the Jews. and yes, its denial , if it wasn't you would know exactly why the Jews decided to leave, its utter dishonesty , its almost like an abusive relationship , where the husband is complaining why the wife has ran away after getting abuse for a long time, its pretty obvious. you (by you , I mean non Jews in general) , did not want the Jews among you, just because you change your mind every so often, doesn't mean the Jews will be your lapdogs and just follow along, eventually they will walk away, which most of them did.Allthishate
By conflating me personally with non-Jewish folks from decades before I was born you're essentially charging me with arguments I've never made, posititions I've never taken, and views I've never held. If you insist upon doing so then further conversation with you is entirely pointless.
Im not blaming you on a personal level , but what I am blaming you for pretty much ignoring history , by pretty much saying "well, society did not want the Jews, it tried to exterminate them several times, so what, who cares, they had no right to leave". again , its a matter of historical consequence, you can't just wash your hands of history and pretend like nothing happend. the argument i had with him he tried to use gas chambers as a counter argument and is trying to claim u cant like jews unless u like isreal totally boggles the mind tbh.
right because they just simply walked into Palestine and lived peacefully? offtopics full of this.[QUOTE="GrayF0X786"]
[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]
However, I'm not in any way opposed to the idea of Jews simply living in what they regard as their ancestral homeland.
br0kenrabbit
Maybe we should ask the Canninites what we should do with their land. Oh wait...the Jews killed ALL OF THEM.
That's different. Big J didn't like the Cananites.[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] again ,yes you are, if youre not a Jew, then yes, youre essentially going against and yes, basically denying the attitude towards the Jews. and yes, its denial , if it wasn't you would know exactly why the Jews decided to leave, its utter dishonesty , its almost like an abusive relationship , where the husband is complaining why the wife has ran away after getting abuse for a long time, its pretty obvious. you (by you , I mean non Jews in general) , did not want the Jews among you, just because you change your mind every so often, doesn't mean the Jews will be your lapdogs and just follow along, eventually they will walk away, which most of them did.Darkman2007
By conflating me personally with non-Jewish folks from decades before I was born you're essentially charging me with arguments I've never made, posititions I've never taken, and views I've never held. If you insist upon doing so then further conversation with you is entirely pointless.
Im not blaming you on a personal level , but what I am blaming you for pretty much ignoring history , by pretty much saying "well, society did not want the Jews, it tried to exterminate them several times, so what, who cares, they had no right to leave". again , its a matter of historical consequence, you can't just wash your hands of history and pretend like nothing happend.I'm not ignoring history. Goddamn, I feel like I'm arguing with my grandmother here. Thick as a goddamn brick wall.
[QUOTE="Allthishate"][QUOTE="worlock77"]Im not blaming you on a personal level , but what I am blaming you for pretty much ignoring history , by pretty much saying "well, society did not want the Jews, it tried to exterminate them several times, so what, who cares, they had no right to leave". again , its a matter of historical consequence, you can't just wash your hands of history and pretend like nothing happend. the argument i had with him he tried to use gas chambers as a counter argument and is trying to claim u cant like jews unless u like isreal totally boggles the mind tbh. if you hate a country, yes, you hate the people within it, its not had to understand, if you want to discuss government policy, thats something else, but there is no point in a discussion when there is hatred involved. the comment about Gas chambers was misunderstood by you, I was saying that there are people who think that unless they put the Jews in Gas chambers (ie kill them) , they can do and say, whatever they want.By conflating me personally with non-Jewish folks from decades before I was born you're essentially charging me with arguments I've never made, posititions I've never taken, and views I've never held. If you insist upon doing so then further conversation with you is entirely pointless.
Allthishate
Im not blaming you on a personal level , but what I am blaming you for pretty much ignoring history , by pretty much saying "well, society did not want the Jews, it tried to exterminate them several times, so what, who cares, they had no right to leave". again , its a matter of historical consequence, you can't just wash your hands of history and pretend like nothing happend.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]
By conflating me personally with non-Jewish folks from decades before I was born you're essentially charging me with arguments I've never made, posititions I've never taken, and views I've never held. If you insist upon doing so then further conversation with you is entirely pointless.
worlock77
I'm not ignoring history. Goddamn, I feel like I'm arguing with my grandmother here. Thick as a goddamn brick wall.
if your response to it is basically "so what?" then yes, it is ignoring in a way. though frankly , the average Jew does not care wheter you (or anyone else) agrees with the creation of a Jewish state or not.Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment