What came first: the Atheist or the Believer ???

Forget about the chicken or the egg, this question is more detrimental

what do you think came first?

Jay Leno.

I don't understand... believer?

Jay Leno.

carrot-cake

Trying waaaaaaaay too hard with this thread.

that totally depends on what history of man's origins you take. A believer (of almost any religion) will say the believer because that is what their religion teaches. Like in the Bible, Adam believed in God first, not too familiar with other texts but I think the concept is usually similar. Atheists will of course say the atheist came first, and using their version of history to back that up.

I say atheist, we are not born believing. Belief is something that is institutionalized, and it depends on where and to whom you are born to.

that totally depends on what history of man's origins you take. A believer (of almost any religion) will say the believer because that is what their religion teaches. Like in the Bible, Adam believed in God first, not too familiar with other texts but I think the concept is usually similar. Atheists will of course say the atheist came first, and using their version of history to back that up.

bachilders

[QUOTE="carrot-cake"]

Jay Leno.

BreakTheseLinks

but but.... O'Brien Hair > Leno Chin

:cry:

[QUOTE="BreakTheseLinks"][QUOTE="carrot-cake"]

Jay Leno.

_R34LiTY_

but but.... O'Brien Hair > Leno Chin

:cry:

[QUOTE="BreakTheseLinks"][QUOTE="carrot-cake"]

Jay Leno.

_R34LiTY_

but but.... O'Brien Hair > Leno Chin

:cry:

that totally depends on what history of man's origins you take. A believer (of almost any religion) will say the believer because that is what their religion teaches. Like in the Bible, Adam believed in God first, not too familiar with other texts but I think the concept is usually similar. Atheists will of course say the atheist came first, and using their version of history to back that up.

bachilders

But he was taught to believe in God, after his creation. So he was created an atheist first.:P

Who came first? He with less endurance.

How could anybody vote Believer? Babies aren't born thinking god exists and the first organisms on this planet weren't even smart enough to comprehend a god. Of course the Atheist came first, how could you even question something like that?

How could anybody vote Believer? Babies aren't born thinking god exists and the first organisms on this planet weren't even smart enough to comprehend a god. Of course the Atheist came first, how could you even question something like that?

XileLord

Atheist because you don't know about any religion when you're born.

idunno but I cant help but imagine early man stumbling across fire and putting up his hands and going "DONE! I'm done, im tired of thinking...some big man in the sky made this. End of story"

idunno but I cant help but imagine early man stumbling across fire and putting up his hands and going "DONE! I'm done, im tired of thinking...some big man in the sky made this. End of story"

mrbojangles25

[QUOTE="XileLord"]

How could anybody vote Believer? Babies aren't born thinking god exists and the first organisms on this planet weren't even smart enough to comprehend a god. Of course the Atheist came first, how could you even question something like that?

ColonelWilks

[QUOTE="ColonelWilks"][QUOTE="XileLord"]

How could anybody vote Believer? Babies aren't born thinking god exists and the first organisms on this planet weren't even smart enough to comprehend a god. Of course the Atheist came first, how could you even question something like that?

XileLord

[QUOTE="ColonelWilks"][QUOTE="XileLord"]

How could anybody vote Believer? Babies aren't born thinking god exists and the first organisms on this planet weren't even smart enough to comprehend a god. Of course the Atheist came first, how could you even question something like that?

XileLord

As Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, and a belief in a god would have to have been developed after the acquisition of sufficient human mental faculties, I'd think it's a safe bet that the earliest humans lacked a belief in a god.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

idunno but I cant help but imagine early man stumbling across fire and putting up his hands and going "DONE! I'm done, im tired of thinking...some big man in the sky made this. End of story"

SolidSnake35

interesting.

my thought is that God started off as a theory that people liked enough to make popular. Faith requires so little effort and explains so much, it eases an incredible amount of burden off potentially-troubled people. Especially leaders. Tribe comes up to Chieftan and asks "Why no rain, Og Tog?" and Chieftan Og Tog says "Ummm...God. You pissed him off. Go sacrifice someone" Its far easier to admit that you pissed off some invisible man in the sky than to accept the fact that, well, youre suffering through a drought and you and everyone you know is going to die. it offers hope when there should be none and asks for nothing in return (well, maybe a sacrificial virgin here and there)

*btw, before anyone gets pissed, I am talking about earily beliefs in God and Gods, not Christianity or modern religion.

You might as well ask who believes in God. The believer. ;)

Well believer, even the cavemen believed in a bigger power. (Fire freaked them out.) bbkkristian

As Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, and a belief in a god would have to have been developed after the acquisition of sufficient human mental faculties, I'd think it's a safe bet that the earliest humans lacked a belief in a god.

Barbariser

I agree with this mostly, but I disagree with labeling atheism as such. I think atheism is a conscious denial of the existence of god, not simply a lack of belief in one, and therefore the believer came first. First humans evolved from a point where they didn't believe in god because of their mental capcity (or lack thereof), to a point where they felt they needed to explain their existence through stories of gods (believer), and then to a point where they refuted such stories (atheists).

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]Well believer, even the cavemen believed in a bigger power. (Fire freaked them out.) ColonelWilks

[QUOTE="Barbariser"]

As Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, and a belief in a god would have to have been developed after the acquisition of sufficient human mental faculties, I'd think it's a safe bet that the earliest humans lacked a belief in a god.

theone86

I agree with this mostly, but I disagree with labeling atheism as such. I think atheism is a conscious denial of the existence of god, not simply a lack of belief in one, and therefore the believer came first. First humans evolved from a point where they didn't believe in god because of their mental capcity (or lack thereof), to a point where they felt they needed to explain their existence through stories of gods (believer), and then to a point where they refuted such stories (atheists).

If theist means "belief in god" then adding the prefix "a" to it would hence alter its definition to "no belief in god". I don't know what kind of lexical gymnastics you'd have to perform to switch that to "belief that god does not exist".

[QUOTE="ColonelWilks"][QUOTE="bbkkristian"]Well believer, even the cavemen believed in a bigger power. (Fire freaked them out.) bbkkristian

Well actually, it's quite possible Adam didn't know about God for a while.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Barbariser"]

As Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, and a belief in a god would have to have been developed after the acquisition of sufficient human mental faculties, I'd think it's a safe bet that the earliest humans lacked a belief in a god.

Barbariser

I agree with this mostly, but I disagree with labeling atheism as such. I think atheism is a conscious denial of the existence of god, not simply a lack of belief in one, and therefore the believer came first. First humans evolved from a point where they didn't believe in god because of their mental capcity (or lack thereof), to a point where they felt they needed to explain their existence through stories of gods (believer), and then to a point where they refuted such stories (atheists).

If theist means "belief in god" then adding the prefix "a" to it would hence alter its definition to "no belief in god". I don't know what kind of lexical gymnastics you'd have to perform to switch that to "belief that god does not exist".

My point is that there is a distinct difference between one who lacks a belief in god and one who has arrived at the conclusion that there is no god. One is simply a lack of belief that can be brought about by a mind that cannot comprehend the idea of god, a mind that has never been exposed to the idea of god, or a number of different situations ranging from happenstance to an intellectual journey. Frankly,I think it's insulting to people who fall into the latter category to lump them in with people who fall into the former. I believe that atheism deserves just as much respect as any other belief system, and that terming it as you do serves to hinder that cause. You can wallow in semantics as much as you please, but as I stated I believe atheism to be not simply a lack of belief in a god but a conscious denial of the existence of a god. If you want to get really technical, both theism and atheism describe much more than a simple belief or non-belief, as anyone with the cognitive abilites to self-apply the terms is obviously on a high enough level that their position requires at least some conscious thought. The generic believer and non-believer are far more suited to cover one who does or does not believe in a god.

Can you actually be an atheist if there isn't the opposing belief to not believe?LJS9502_basic

The atheist for sure, though I couldn't quite consider it conscious atheism at its conception. t3hrubikscube

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Can you actually be an atheist if there isn't the opposing belief to not believe?Danm_999

[QUOTE="t3hrubikscube"]The atheist for sure, though I couldn't quite consider it conscious atheism at its conception. l4dak47

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Can you actually be an atheist if there isn't the opposing belief to not believe?LJS9502_basic