Two Brothers Sentenced To Have Their Noses, and Ears Chopped OFF

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/22/pakistan.harsh.justice/index.html

Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) -- A court in Lahore, Pakistan, has ordered that two men have their noses and ears chopped off, after the two were convicted of doing the same to a young woman.

The anti-terrorism court also ordered that brothers Ammanat Ali, 29, and Sher Mohammed, 27, spend life in prison and pay 700,000 rupees ($8,300) in compensation to the victim, Punjab province chief prosecutor Chaudary Mohammed Jahangir said Tuesday.

The sentence was handed down Monday in accordance with Islamic law and the country's anti-terror laws, the prosecutor said.

The woman and her family had rejected an offer of marriage from Sher Mohammed, the officer who investigated the case said.

The two men attacked the woman, Fazeelat Bibi, 22, on September 28, in the village of Zafarkey, southwest of Lahore, Inspector Hakim Ali said. Along with their cousin Mohammed Ali and two other men, they hid, stopped Bibi on her way home from work, and strangled her with a wire, the officer said.

When they thought she was dead, they cut off her nose and ears, Ali said.

They mutilated her "to set an example," prosecutor Jahangir said.

Mohammed Ali, the cousin, was also arrested, while the two other men allegedly involved in the attack have not been, the inspector said.

The brothers were tried under anti-terror laws because the incident "created tyranny" in the district, Inspector Ali said.

The high court must confirm the sentence before it is carried out, and a doctor must determine that they can survive the punishment.

The high court has suspended similar sentences in the past.

is this the right thing to do? thoughts?

Although I don't believe religious law is a good way to run a country as it's usually too Draconian, in this case I'd have to agree with the Lahore court. The only way you can stop something as brutal as the disfigurement of women is to meet said crime with an equally brutal punishment. Prison time won't do it, the number of released convicts that go back to crime in this country should be proof enough of that, and monetary fines don't work either for similar reasons.

I bet we get a least 5 "OMG i lose complete faith in humanity" posts before this thread ends.

What can be more fair than reciprocal punishment?

Eye For an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth I guess.

Ears and noses are bad enough, but also the EARS! that's too much...

Eye For an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth I guess.

Snipes_2

if everyone did eye for an eye the whole world would be blind ;)

Cool. As long as it's legal over there, I have not bad feelings about that. I hope they aren't going to just put them right back on the street afterward though.guynamedbilly

nope their getting life in prison too

I think that it's fair and it sends a message to other criminals to think twice before they do that kind of stuff.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Eye For an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth I guess.

cornholio157

if everyone did eye for an eye the whole world would be blind ;)

You either have studied Ghandi, or died a lot in Modern Warfare 2 :P

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Eye For an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth I guess.

cornholio157

if everyone did eye for an eye the whole world would be blind ;)

good quote. i dont know who its by, but i recognize it.

Yay, vengeance...:roll:

[QUOTE="cornholio157"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Eye For an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth I guess.

effena

if everyone did eye for an eye the whole world would be blind ;)

You either have studied Ghandi, or died a lot in Modern Warfare 2 :P

i actually just watch the history channel alot :P havent gotten MW2 yet

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Eye For an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth I guess.

cornholio157

if everyone did eye for an eye the whole world would be blind ;)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/22/pakistan.harsh.justice/index.html

Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) -- A court in Lahore, Pakistan, has ordered that two men have their noses and ears chopped off, after the two were convicted of doing the same to a young woman.

The anti-terrorism court also ordered that brothers Ammanat Ali, 29, and Sher Mohammed, 27, spend life in prison and pay 700,000 rupees ($8,300) in compensation to the victim, Punjab province chief prosecutor Chaudary Mohammed Jahangir said Tuesday.

The sentence was handed down Monday in accordance with Islamic law and the country's anti-terror laws, the prosecutor said.

The woman and her family had rejected an offer of marriage from Sher Mohammed, the officer who investigated the case said.

The two men attacked the woman, Fazeelat Bibi, 22, on September 28, in the village of Zafarkey, southwest of Lahore, Inspector Hakim Ali said. Along with their cousin Mohammed Ali and two other men, they hid, stopped Bibi on her way home from work, and strangled her with a wire, the officer said.

When they thought she was dead, they cut off her nose and ears, Ali said.

They mutilated her "to set an example," prosecutor Jahangir said.

Mohammed Ali, the cousin, was also arrested, while the two other men allegedly involved in the attack have not been, the inspector said.

The brothers were tried under anti-terror laws because the incident "created tyranny" in the district, Inspector Ali said.

The high court must confirm the sentence before it is carried out, and a doctor must determine that they can survive the punishment.

The high court has suspended similar sentences in the past.

is this the right thing to do? thoughts?

weezyfb

they should be tortured

that is really bad

i hate people from the middle east they give indians(peoples ignorance of linking india to iran/iraq/pakistan) a bad name

i am indian(never been there and dont really look like one and my names mark lol)

my dad was born in punjab my mom somewhere else

oh this isnt really mattering but since im bored ill share with you my grandma was born in (what is today pakistan but back then still india)[she was born in 1929]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Eye For an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth I guess.

cornholio157

if everyone did eye for an eye the whole world would be blind ;)

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Eye For an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth I guess.

cornholio157

if everyone did eye for an eye the whole world would be blind ;)

I was Referring to the mentality they use, not my own Philosophy.

they should be tortured

that is really bad

i hate people from the middle east they give indians(peoples ignorance of linking india to iran/iraq/pakistan) a bad name

i am indian(never been there and dont really look like one and my names mark lol)

my dad was born in punjab my mom somewhere else

oh this isnt really mattering but since im bored ill share with you my grandma was born in (what is today pakistan but back then still india)[she was born in 1929]

batman_is_aweso

I hate how certain people act like everybody in the Middle East is some kind of lunatic running around trying to kill everybody. You are no different.

I thought the dark ages were over

Sounds painful. *shivers*XDXDXDXDXDXDXD

No, it's not the right thing to do. But I can't say I feel sorry for them.

Rupees are a real currency?

*Ahem* Anyway, there is such a thing as cruel and unusual punishment. The legal system has no justification for resorting to the same level as the criminals it convicts.

Rupees are a real currency?

*Ahem* Anyway, there is such a thing as cruel and unusual punishment. The legal system has no justification for resorting to the same level as the criminals it convicts.

Theokhoth

The reason why punishments in Islamic countries are so harsh is because they set an example. That way, people will not perform said action. I am of the opinion that many Western countries give you mere slaps on the wrist for committing crime and that is why our criminal systems are so ineffective.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Rupees are a real currency?

*Ahem* Anyway, there is such a thing as cruel and unusual punishment. The legal system has no justification for resorting to the same level as the criminals it convicts.

shoryuken_

The reason why punishments in Islamic countries are so harsh is because they set an example. That way, people will not perform said action. I am of the opinion that many Western countries give you mere slaps on the wrist for committing crime and that is why our criminal systems are so ineffective.

Having said that, I'm glad the US isn't like that, but I won't fault another country that is.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Rupees are a real currency?

*Ahem* Anyway, there is such a thing as cruel and unusual punishment. The legal system has no justification for resorting to the same level as the criminals it convicts.

shoryuken_

The reason why punishments in Islamic countries are so harsh is because they set an example. That way, people will not perform said action. I am of the opinion that many Western countries give you mere slaps on the wrist for committing crime and that is why our criminal systems are so ineffective.

Wow, it sets an example. That would be great except for the people they use to set that example. They just get mutilated or tortured to death.

Western countries do not just slap convicts on the wrist and our systems are not so ineffective as to call for "setting examples" by resorting to the levels of murderous criminals. The primary contributor to crime is the lack of education.

[QUOTE="shoryuken_"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Rupees are a real currency?

*Ahem* Anyway, there is such a thing as cruel and unusual punishment. The legal system has no justification for resorting to the same level as the criminals it convicts.

guynamedbilly

The reason why punishments in Islamic countries are so harsh is because they set an example. That way, people will not perform said action. I am of the opinion that many Western countries give you mere slaps on the wrist for committing crime and that is why our criminal systems are so ineffective.

Having said that, I'm glad the US isn't like that, but I won't fault another country that is.

A dead man won't kill again, but a barbaric legal system can kill anyone it wants.

Wow, it sets an example. That would be great except for the people they use to set that example. They just get mutilated or tortured to death.

Western countries do not just slap convicts on the wrist and our systems are not so ineffective as to call for "setting examples" by resorting to the levels of murderous criminals. The primary contributor to crime is the lack of education.

Theokhoth

What do you propose these men do for completely ruining this woman's life then? Community service?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Wow, it sets an example. That would be great except for the people they use to set that example. They just get mutilated or tortured to death.

Western countries do not just slap convicts on the wrist and our systems are not so ineffective as to call for "setting examples" by resorting to the levels of murderous criminals. The primary contributor to crime is the lack of education.

shoryuken_

What do you propose these men do for completely ruining this woman's life then? Community service?

Are the only two options for these men "horrific mutilation" and "community service"? If not, then I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable middle-ground.

A dead man won't kill again, but a barbaric legal system can kill anyone it wants.

Theokhoth

When Islamic law is properly implemented, it is not a barbaric system at all. Criminals are tried by a judicial court and given the appropriate punishment for their actions. I'm not going to comment on the current state of Islamic countries because that is a discussion in itself.

I think that letting people off easily for serious crimes such as rape, murder, etc. is the real crime and only serves to strengthen the mindset that people can get away with those kinds of things.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

A dead man won't kill again, but a barbaric legal system can kill anyone it wants.

shoryuken_

When Islamic law is properly implemented, it is not a barbaric system at all. Criminals are tried by a judicial court and given the appropriate punishment for their actions. I'm not going to comment on the current state of Islamic countries because that is a discussion in itself.

I think that letting people off easily for serious crimes such as rape, murder, etc. is the real crime and only serves to strengthen the mindset that people can get away with those kinds of things.

Some people don't define "appropriate punishment" as stooping to their level and doing to them what they do to other people.

Who gets off easy? You're making it seem like there are only two possibilities: either they get off easy or they get brutally maimed and impaired for life. There are more, sane options. Chopping off a nose and the ears of criminals is never, ever appropriate.

A dead man won't kill again, but a barbaric legal system can kill anyone it wants.

Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

A dead man won't kill again, but a barbaric legal system can kill anyone it wants.

guynamedbilly

And what's to stop "the law" from being whatever the system wants? Do you honestly think a system where people are cruelly and unusually punished will adhere to any rational standard or basis of law, or that it will hesitate to change it? Define a "criminal" as a man who drinks too many glasses of water in a day; does he deserve the same treatment? He will in the eyes of that kind of system.

It's cruel, it's unusual, it's barbaric, and it's inhumane.

And what's to stop "the law" from being whatever the system wants? Do you honestly think a system where people are cruelly and unusually punished will adhere to any rational standard or basis of law, or that it will hesitate to change it? Define a "criminal" as a man who drinks too many glasses of water in a day; does he deserve the same treatment? He will in the eyes of that kind of system.

It's cruel, it's unusual, it's barbaric, and it's inhumane.

Theokhoth

In this specific case, I don't think the punishment is cruel or unusual. They definitely deserved what they got. It's not like the criminal system mandates that every criminal is either horribly tortured or mutilated or sent to death. This is an extreme case which is why those punishments must be utilized.

I don't know why the brothers thought this would be a good punishment for a girl who turned down one of them. How the heck did they even conjured something like this up? What were they thinking?

well the brothers themselves believe this is ok to do otherwise they wouldn't have done it to someone else...so I don't care.

[QUOTE="shoryuken_"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

A dead man won't kill again, but a barbaric legal system can kill anyone it wants.

Theokhoth

When Islamic law is properly implemented, it is not a barbaric system at all. Criminals are tried by a judicial court and given the appropriate punishment for their actions. I'm not going to comment on the current state of Islamic countries because that is a discussion in itself.

I think that letting people off easily for serious crimes such as rape, murder, etc. is the real crime and only serves to strengthen the mindset that people can get away with those kinds of things.

Some people don't define "appropriate punishment" as stooping to their level and doing to them what they do to other people.

Who gets off easy? You're making it seem like there are only two possibilities: either they get off easy or they get brutally maimed and impaired for life. There are more, sane options. Chopping off a nose and the ears of criminals is never, ever appropriate.

So then you actually believe a life in prison where everything required for survival and, in the case of most Western countries, even thrive intellectually and physically is provided for you at the expense of the people you wronged is just?

I lol'd at the city name... GodofBigMacs

What's so funny about it?

I lol'd at the city name... GodofBigMacs