Students Told to Call 9-11 Hijackers Freedom Fighters

Personally I don't see how freedom fighters would want to kill innocent civilians so that throws that name out the window.Rattlesnake_8

Yet America fights for everyone's freedoms.

You really going to make me pull out statistics of casualities in the recent wars?

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] ...you are a dumb f*ck for even trying to make this a valid point. Seriously. Do I think it was a righteous act? Um no. But if someone did, and you were teaching that people do believe such things are justified, then their is no problem what so ever in what you are doing as a teacher. Certain people in the world do in fact believe the terrorists on 9/11 were freedom fighters. There is nothing wrong at all in trying to teach students that there are people who believe such things. God forbid we trying to teach the "other side of the story" no matter how much we personally might disagree with that perspective :roll: Anyone who can't understand that concept is simple minded and quite honestly a moron.

SaintLeonidas

...with each post I am beginning to believe the actual point of the arguments being made in this thread are well beyond your reach.

"Have you ever heard of people who sacrifice other humans as "spiritual fighters" let alone freedom fighters?" ...yes, there are Islamit's who believe such things. Do you honestly think other Muslims who do believe the US or 'western civilization' are a threat don't think they were freedom fighters? Do you happen to also live under a rock?

"Do you think people in the future will look back and say "you know, those terrorists were really freedom fighters"?"...again, that is not the point anyone is making. No one is saying they personally believe they are...seriously, not hard to comprehend:

#1 - Certain people do in fact believe those terrorists on 9/11 were 'freedom fighters' dying to preserve their beliefs.

#2 - Other people are teach the fact that is #1.

What part of that are you not getting? Someone saying "Hey...some people think terrorists were freedom fighters" =/= (in any way, shape or form) mean they also believe they were freedom fighters; and it does not mean they think the idea is justified. They are simply stating the fact that OTHERS do. 

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] K, we can all agree that an intelligent person can think from both perspectives. But there is always one more righteous to an individual in each culture or frame of mind, as in Lanza's case. Yes, we may teach students of other cultures such as the Aztecs who practiced human sacrifice, but civilized humans today believe that act is savage. Have you ever heard of people who sacrifice other humans as "spiritual fighters" let alone freedom fighters? Do you think people in the future will look back and say "you know, those terrorists were really freedom fighters"?lo_Pine

...with each post I am beginning to believe the actual point of the arguments being made in this thread are well beyond your reach.

"Have you ever heard of people who sacrifice other humans as "spiritual fighters" let alone freedom fighters?" ...yes, there are Islamit's who believe such things. Do you honestly think other Muslims who do believe the US or 'western civilization' are a threat don't think they were freedom fighters? Do you happen to also live under a rock?

"Do you think people in the future will look back and say "you know, those terrorists were really freedom fighters"?"...again, that is not the point anyone is making. No one is saying they personally believe they are...seriously, not hard to comprehend:

#1 - Certain people do in fact believe those terrorists on 9/11 were 'freedom fighters' dying to preserve their beliefs.

#2 - Other people are teach the fact that is #1.

What part of that are you not getting? Someone saying "Hey...some people think terrorists were freedom fighters" =/= (in any way, shape or form) mean they also believe they were freedom fighters; and it does not mean they think the idea is justified. They are simply stating the fact that OTHERS do. 

[QUOTE="Celldrax"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Teaching that there are other perspectives =/= justification.

worlock77

It wasn't the best choice of word. But as far as I know, 'freedom fighters' don't crash planes into buildings, or blow themselves up in an attempt to kill as many people as possible.

Except the 9/11 hijackers didn't attept to kill as many people as possible. If that was their goal they would not have struck so early in the morning when the WTC was relatively empty. No their goal was to cripple the US economy and military.

Well, I wasn't being 100% literal with the whole 'killing as many people as they can' part (apart from suicide bombers, probably). But eh....they choose to intentionally bring death to hundereds of innocent people, they're nothing more than scummy terrorists and murderers to me.

[spoiler] >perspectives [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

...with each post I am beginning to believe the actual point of the arguments being made in this thread are well beyond your reach.

"Have you ever heard of people who sacrifice other humans as "spiritual fighters" let alone freedom fighters?" ...yes, there are Islamit's who believe such things. Do you honestly think other Muslims who do believe the US or 'western civilization' are a threat don't think they were freedom fighters? Do you happen to also live under a rock?

"Do you think people in the future will look back and say "you know, those terrorists were really freedom fighters"?"...again, that is not the point anyone is making. No one is saying they personally believe they are...seriously, not hard to comprehend:

#1 - Certain people do in fact believe those terrorists on 9/11 were 'freedom fighters' dying to preserve their beliefs.

#2 - Other people are teach the fact that is #1.

What part of that are you not getting? Someone saying "Hey...some people think terrorists were freedom fighters" =/= (in any way, shape or form) mean they also believe they were freedom fighters; and it does not mean they think the idea is justified. They are simply stating the fact that OTHERS do. 

SaintLeonidas

Ok. Again, you can argue, argue and argue. But if you were to pick a side which would you choose?lo_Pine

The point is, "Sides" are meaningless in history.

It happened, the people who did it probbably believed they were doing it for good reasons. They believed they were fighting for freedom.
Is it possible other people agree with them, and also think they were fighting for freedom?

It doesn't matter what i think, or what you think.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Celldrax"]

It wasn't the best choice of word. But as far as I know, 'freedom fighters' don't crash planes into buildings, or blow themselves up in an attempt to kill as many people as possible.

Celldrax

Except the 9/11 hijackers didn't attept to kill as many people as possible. If that was their goal they would not have struck so early in the morning when the WTC was relatively empty. No their goal was to cripple the US economy and military.

Well, I wasn't being 100% literal with the whole 'killing as many people as they can' part (apart from suicide bombers, probably). But eh....they choose to intentionally bring death to hundereds of innocent people, they're nothing more than scummy terrorists and murderers to me.

[spoiler] >perspectives [/spoiler]

And from their perspective the same thing can be said the the United States.

No, I agreed previously with the fact that there's nothing wrong with teaching other perspectives. But the question that arises is which is more right?lo_Pine

That is a moot point. It is simply a matter of perspective that can, and has, been debated for hundreds or even thousands of years. It is practically the basis for every conflict between man. One side will always consider their beliefs to be the "right" beliefs, the least we can do is not let that bias cloud our view of the world and try to at least teach and understand what and why others believe the things they do. A lot more can be solved through understanding than through total bias. 

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"]Ok. Again, you can argue, argue and argue. But if you were to pick a side which would you choose?Nibroc420

The point is, "Sides" are meaningless in history.

It happened, the people who did it probbably believed they were doing it for good reasons. They believed they were fighting for freedom.
Is it possible other people agree with them, and also think they were fighting for freedom?

It doesn't matter what i think, or what you think.

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] No, I agreed previously with the fact that there's nothing wrong with teaching other perspectives. But the question that arises is which is more right?SaintLeonidas

That is a moot point. It is simply a matter of perspective that can, and has, been debated for hundreds or even thousands of years. It is practically the basis for every conflict between man. One side will always consider their beliefs to be the "right" beliefs, the least we can do is not let that bias cloud our view of the world and try to at least teach and understand what and why others believe the things they do. A lot more can be solved through understanding than through total bias. 

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] No, I agreed previously with the fact that there's nothing wrong with teaching other perspectives. But the question that arises is which is more right?lo_Pine

That is a moot point. It is simply a matter of perspective that can, and has, been debated for hundreds or even thousands of years. It is practically the basis for every conflict between man. One side will always consider their beliefs to be the "right" beliefs, the least we can do is not let that bias cloud our view of the world and try to at least teach and understand what and why others believe the things they do. A lot more can be solved through understanding than through total bias. 

Why do you keep asking questions that are completely irrelevant to the subject?

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] No, I agreed previously with the fact that there's nothing wrong with teaching other perspectives. But the question that arises is which is more right?lo_Pine

That is a moot point. It is simply a matter of perspective that can, and has, been debated for hundreds or even thousands of years. It is practically the basis for every conflict between man. One side will always consider their beliefs to be the "right" beliefs, the least we can do is not let that bias cloud our view of the world and try to at least teach and understand what and why others believe the things they do. A lot more can be solved through understanding than through total bias. 

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

That is a moot point. It is simply a matter of perspective that can, and has, been debated for hundreds or even thousands of years. It is practically the basis for every conflict between man. One side will always consider their beliefs to be the "right" beliefs, the least we can do is not let that bias cloud our view of the world and try to at least teach and understand what and why others believe the things they do. A lot more can be solved through understanding than through total bias. 

worlock77

Why do you keep asking questions that are completely irrelevant to the subject?

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

That is a moot point. It is simply a matter of perspective that can, and has, been debated for hundreds or even thousands of years. It is practically the basis for every conflict between man. One side will always consider their beliefs to be the "right" beliefs, the least we can do is not let that bias cloud our view of the world and try to at least teach and understand what and why others believe the things they do. A lot more can be solved through understanding than through total bias. 

SaintLeonidas

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] Do you believe that after thousands of years of conflict over cultural bias that the nature of man will change, in your lifetime?lo_Pine

Why do you keep asking questions that are completely irrelevant to the subject?

The one everybody except you has been discussing in this thread.

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Why do you keep asking questions that are completely irrelevant to the subject?

worlock77

The one everybody except you has been discussing in this thread.

I never thought I'd have a conversation with an inanimate object, but then again I'd never have thought brick walls could use the internet.

I never thought I'd have a conversation with an inanimate object, but then again I'd never have thought brick walls could use the internet.

SaintLeonidas

[QUOTE="Celldrax"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Except the 9/11 hijackers didn't attept to kill as many people as possible. If that was their goal they would not have struck so early in the morning when the WTC was relatively empty. No their goal was to cripple the US economy and military.

worlock77

Well, I wasn't being 100% literal with the whole 'killing as many people as they can' part (apart from suicide bombers, probably). But eh....they choose to intentionally bring death to hundereds of innocent people, they're nothing more than scummy terrorists and murderers to me.

[spoiler] >perspectives [/spoiler]

And from their perspective the same thing can be said the the United States.

I know. We're right, they're wrong, and vice versa. And that's probably the only conclusion we can keep returning to...

You've got to love those far left and far right nutjobs.  Anyone that can justify murder is a special kind of person. 

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

I never thought I'd have a conversation with an inanimate object, but then again I'd never have thought brick walls could use the internet.

lo_Pine

"We"

That's cute

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

I never thought I'd have a conversation with an inanimate object, but then again I'd never have thought brick walls could use the internet.

wis3boi

"We"

That's cute

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] We don't know who you're talking to.lo_Pine

"We"

That's cute

adorable

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

 

"We"

 

 

That's cute

wis3boi

adorable

I'm amazed they have anything this sophisticated in Texas.

What they're essentially teaching kids is objectivity and critical thinking.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"]Ok. Again, you can argue, argue and argue. But if you were to pick a side which would you choose?lo_Pine

The point is, "Sides" are meaningless in history.

It happened, the people who did it probbably believed they were doing it for good reasons. They believed they were fighting for freedom.
Is it possible other people agree with them, and also think they were fighting for freedom?

It doesn't matter what i think, or what you think.

There is no "more right" answer.
It's essentially two different cultures, each with slightly different values being more important.

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

The point is, "Sides" are meaningless in history.

It happened, the people who did it probbably believed they were doing it for good reasons. They believed they were fighting for freedom.
Is it possible other people agree with them, and also think they were fighting for freedom?

 

It doesn't matter what i think, or what you think.

Nibroc420

There is no "more right" answer.
It's essentially two different cultures, each with slightly different values being more important.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] It is possible that each fighting side has people agreeing with them, but the question is which is more right?lo_Pine

There is no "more right" answer.
It's essentially two different cultures, each with slightly different values being more important.

they were not freedom fighters, they were a bunch of morons, but i'm still not gonna bend over and believe the official story of 9/11.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] Do you believe that after thousands of years of conflict over cultural bias that the nature of man will change, in your lifetime?lo_Pine

Why do you keep asking questions that are completely irrelevant to the subject?

You are either trolling or you are absolutely beyond the bounds of what the definition of "retarded" encompasses.

Pick one or the other.... Although I would like to believe that you are a mix of both options.

They were neither "terrorists" nor "freedom fighters".

"CIA recruits" would probably be closer to the mark.

They were neither "terrorists" nor "freedom fighters".

"CIA recruits" would probably be closer to the mark.

Stesilaus

Click here. 

What is your opinion of this style of "teaching?"

kingkong0124

I don't see anything wrong with exploring a sensitive topic and viewing it from the other side. The best way to understand an enemy (and hopefully kill him) is to play his part so you know how he behaves.

Teacher should be dismissed.LJS9502_basic

On what grounds?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Teacher should be dismissed.worlock77

On what grounds?

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Teacher should be dismissed.chessmaster1989

On what grounds?

Yeah, you're right. Teachers really shouldn't encourage students to think critically or to consider things from outside of their comfort zone. A nation of dullards is what we need.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

On what grounds?

worlock77

Yeah, you're right. Teachers really shouldn't encourage students to think critically or to consider things from outside of their comfort zone. A nation of dullards is what we need.

lol at the comments in the link.

"mer! whatever happened to teaching facts in history class!!! mer!!!"

:lol:

history class... facts.... good one.

lol at the comments in the link.

"mer! whatever happened to teaching facts in history class!!! mer!!!"

:lol:

history class... facts.... good one.

Riverwolf007

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"] Telling students not to call terrorism terrorism and genocide genocide. Not what I'd want in a teacher.chessmaster1989

Yeah, you're right. Teachers really shouldn't encourage students to think critically or to consider things from outside of their comfort zone. A nation of dullards is what we need.

Is calling it "ethnic cleansing" somehow inaccurate? Seems to me like splitting hairs here.

I'd consider losing the teacher, tbh.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

On what grounds?

worlock77

Yeah, you're right. Teachers really shouldn't encourage students to think critically or to consider things from outside of their comfort zone. A nation of dullards is what we need.

I assume you're one of those people who believes evolution should be taught alongside intelligent design for the sake of "critical thinking". You're either a hypocrite or a f*cking idiot.