Steve Jobs to Obama in 2010: You're a 1-Term President (biography)

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/obama-presidency/steve-jobs-obama-2010-youre-1-term-president

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/steve-jobs-biography-obama_n_1022786.html

"You're headed for a one-term presidency," he told Obama at the start of their meeting, insisting that the administration needed to be more business-friendly. As an example, Jobs described the ease with which companies can build factories in China compared to the United States, where "regulations and unnecessary costs" make it difficult for them.

Apple CEO offered to design political ads for President Obama's 2012 campaign despite being highly critical of the administration's policies

He does need to do more in order to have another term.

what a coold dead man.

Hmmm... so Obama needs to let companies build and operate sweat shops in this country in order for him to get re-elected?Engrish_Major

Also needs to let them dump toxic waste in rivers and pump as much smog into the atmosphere as they please. I don't know about anyone else but cheap products and corporate profits are more important than the environment.

/sarcasm

I'm all for capitalism...also for policies that allow people and companies to prosper...but there are things that should be regulated. There are negative ramifications to allowing certain kinds of behaviors and ensuring safety in these areas trump profit.

Hmmm... so Obama needs to let companies build and operate sweat shops in this country in order for him to get re-elected?Engrish_Major

This whole 'factory thing' reminds me of this story....

Not sure if anyone remembers good ol' Joe Biden back in 2009.... [from article]

Standing in a shuttered General Motors plant in Wilmington, Del., Vice President Biden proclaimed that a half-billion-dollar Department of Energy loan would transform the idled site into a production line for electric cars.

"Folks, we're making a bet," Biden said on Oct. 27, 2009. "We're making a bet on the future, we're making a bet on the American people, we're making a bet on the market, we're making a bet on innovation."

The announcement that the plant would re-open followed a heavy lobbying push by Delaware politicians from both parties, who cited the news as a sign of industry's turnaround.

Of course, the plant never reopened and the company, Fisker, opened up it's factory in Finland. Why is it, that a company that is so involved with the government (financially) STILL can't get a factory going here in the good old U.S. of A?

Article I referenced: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-cars-finland/story?id=14770875&page=3

I already loathed Steve Jobs but it gets worser by the week. First that 'I want to destroy the andriod thieves' statement and now this.
Seems the claims about Steve Jobs being extremely immoral were actually true, how long will it take before people realize that Steve Jobs isn't a innovative genious but simply a master in marketing.

He deserves a big round of applause for his sweater and sneakers though, that scored so much point in the general public.

^ Steve Jobs and his company uses inhumane sweat shops to build their products. That's exactly why I brought it up.Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]^ Steve Jobs and his company uses inhumane sweat shops to build their products. That's exactly why I brought it up.Planet_Pluto

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]^ Steve Jobs and his company uses inhumane sweat shops to build their products. That's exactly why I brought it up.Engrish_Major

Yeah, he said it's easier in China. He said there is too much regulation here. It would appear that even an administration favorite, like the Fisker company I mentioned, would agree with Jobs.

Planet_Pluto

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

Yeah, he said it's easier in China. He said there is too much regulation here. It would appear that even an administration favorite, like the Fisker company I mentioned, would agree with Jobs.

Engrish_Major

Well, if it's that cut-and-dry to you, I guess you'll be fine with a perpetually increasing number of people unemployed here. I guess having no job is better for a person that a job that doesn't pay as much as people think it should.

Planet_Pluto

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

Yeah, he said it's easier in China. He said there is too much regulation here. It would appear that even an administration favorite, like the Fisker company I mentioned, would agree with Jobs.

Planet_Pluto

The issue is since these conditions are allowed in China, and since certain trade agreements were enacted in the last decade, it really does boil down to being so cut and dry. There are improvements to policy in the US that can be made of course, but no matter what we do here it will always be cheaper in China and other countries like it.

We can't compete (cost wise) with a 3rd world (practically) country that allows sweat shop working conditions and practically no environmental/worker protections (at least none that can't be avoided with bribes)...unless of course that is what you propose to bring to the US. Companies will always go the path of least resistance when the profit motive is their primary perogative.

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

Well, if it's that cut-and-dry to you, I guess you'll be fine with a perpetually increasing number of people unemployed here. I guess having no job is better for a person that a job that doesn't pay as much as people think it should.

Engrish_Major

General Electric much?

Planet_Pluto

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

General Electric much?

Engrish_Major

Regarding General Electric, I was just referencing Obama appointing Immelt to some sort of Jobs Czar type position, shortly before GE sent some MORE jobs overseas. This, amongst all the criticism against GE for paying no taxes. Boo hoo hoo.

I have never said anything against green energy. I just think the way we go about it is so half-@ssed it's beyond comedy.

Regarding General Electric, I was just referencing Obama appointing Immelt to some sort of Jobs Czar type position, shortly before GE sent some MORE jobs overseas. This, amongst all the criticism against GE for paying no taxes. Boo hoo hoo.

Planet_Pluto

It's just a nugget that allows us a small glimpse into his real character.Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

I have never said anything against green energy. I just think the way we go about it is so half-@ssed it's beyond comedy.

Regarding General Electric, I was just referencing Obama appointing Immelt to some sort of Jobs Czar type position, shortly before GE sent some MORE jobs overseas. This, amongst all the criticism against GE for paying no taxes. Boo hoo hoo.

Engrish_Major

I just included in response to your comment about imagine if a Democrat said something like that. Having the head of GE in an advisory position, pretty much makes him part and parcel of the administration so, in a way, a Democrat has, in fact, said something like that (with actions if not words).

Planet_Pluto

I just included in response to your comment about imagine if a Democrat said something like that. Having the head of GE in an advisory position, pretty much makes him part and parcel of the administration so, in a way, a Democrat has, in fact, said something like that (with actions if not words).

Planet_Pluto

I just remembered the horrible state of the working environment in the Chinese Apple hardware production factories, there are employees dieing as a result.

Just trowing it out there...

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

I just included in response to your comment about imagine if a Democrat said something like that. Having the head of GE in an advisory position, pretty much makes him part and parcel of the administration so, in a way, a Democrat has, in fact, said something like that (with actions if not words).

Jandurin

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

I just included in response to your comment about imagine if a Democrat said something like that. Having the head of GE in an advisory position, pretty much makes him part and parcel of the administration so, in a way, a Democrat has, in fact, said something like that (with actions if not words).

Engrish_Major

oh look, my comment that does not consist of what was said on the 10-o-clock news is not being addressed, maybe i sould have dumbed it down to a party line that is entierly factually false: we don' gone and lost jobes because asians are smaller than 'merkins and take less food to run, we gots to get dem asains bigger and we need to invest in shrink rays!

I just remembered the horrible state of the working environment in the Chinese Apple hardware production factories, there are employees dieing as a result.

Just trowing it out there...

rastotm

oh look, my comment that does not consist of what was said on the 10-o-clock news is not being addressed, maybe i sould have dumbed it down to a party line that is entierly factually false: we don' gone and lost jobes because asians are smaller than 'merkins and take less food to run, we gots to get dem asains bigger and we need to invest in shrink rays!

surrealnumber5

oh look, my comment that does not consist of what was said on the 10-o-clock news is not being addressed, maybe i sould have dumbed it down to a party line that is entierly factually false: we don' gone and lost jobes because asians are smaller than 'merkins and take less rood to run, we gots to get dem asains bigger and we need to invest in shrink rays!surrealnumber5

My original point in this thread was that people just jump to such extremes. Jobs said (paraphrase) ya gotta loosen up alittle to let business grow and immediately people are saying HE WANTS SWEAT SHOPS IN THE USA!

Your post is only useful if people want to have a reasonable, non-emotional discussion. Good luck.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]oh look, my comment that does not consist of what was said on the 10-o-clock news is not being addressed, maybe i sould have dumbed it down to a party line that is entierly factually false: we don' gone and lost jobes because asians are smaller than 'merkins and take less rood to run, we gots to get dem asains bigger and we need to invest in shrink rays!Planet_Pluto

My original point in this thread was that people just jump to such extremes. Jobs said (paraphrase) ya gotta loosen up alittle to let business grow and immediately people are saying HE WANTS SWEAT SHOPS IN THE USA!

Your post is only useful if people want to have a reasonable, non-emotional discussion. Good luck.

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]oh look, my comment that does not consist of what was said on the 10-o-clock news is not being addressed, maybe i sould have dumbed it down to a party line that is entierly factually false: we don' gone and lost jobes because asians are smaller than 'merkins and take less rood to run, we gots to get dem asains bigger and we need to invest in shrink rays!Engrish_Major

My original point in this thread was that people just jump to such extremes. Jobs said (paraphrase) ya gotta loosen up alittle to let business grow and immediately people are saying HE WANTS SWEAT SHOPS IN THE USA!

Your post is only useful if people want to have a reasonable, non-emotional discussion. Good luck.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]oh look, my comment that does not consist of what was said on the 10-o-clock news is not being addressed, maybe i sould have dumbed it down to a party line that is entierly factually false: we don' gone and lost jobes because asians are smaller than 'merkins and take less rood to run, we gots to get dem asains bigger and we need to invest in shrink rays!Planet_Pluto

My original point in this thread was that people just jump to such extremes. Jobs said (paraphrase) ya gotta loosen up alittle to let business grow and immediately people are saying HE WANTS SWEAT SHOPS IN THE USA!

Your post is only useful if people want to have a reasonable, non-emotional discussion. Good luck.

I was referring to Surreal's previous post (the one prior to the one I quoted).

Planet_Pluto

Until minimum wage and safety regulations are eliminated, Apple will not shift manufacturing jobs to America.

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]oh look, my comment that does not consist of what was said on the 10-o-clock news is not being addressed, maybe i sould have dumbed it down to a party line that is entierly factually false: we don' gone and lost jobes because asians are smaller than 'merkins and take less rood to run, we gots to get dem asains bigger and we need to invest in shrink rays!BrianB0422

My original point in this thread was that people just jump to such extremes. Jobs said (paraphrase) ya gotta loosen up alittle to let business grow and immediately people are saying HE WANTS SWEAT SHOPS IN THE USA!

Your post is only useful if people want to have a reasonable, non-emotional discussion. Good luck.

More importantly, I wonder how many other companies, beyond Apple, would get things moving here.

meh.. if jobs knew everything i suppose he'd still be alive...

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]oh look, my comment that does not consist of what was said on the 10-o-clock news is not being addressed, maybe i sould have dumbed it down to a party line that is entierly factually false: we don' gone and lost jobes because asians are smaller than 'merkins and take less rood to run, we gots to get dem asains bigger and we need to invest in shrink rays!BrianB0422

My original point in this thread was that people just jump to such extremes. Jobs said (paraphrase) ya gotta loosen up alittle to let business grow and immediately people are saying HE WANTS SWEAT SHOPS IN THE USA!

Your post is only useful if people want to have a reasonable, non-emotional discussion. Good luck.

maybe people should aspire to be more than factory workers... just sayin.. /end elitism. comp_atkins

Obama is doomed he went after pot shops when he said he would not, going against things he was elected for, he is a one term president.

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

I just remembered the horrible state of the working environment in the Chinese Apple hardware production factories, there are employees dieing as a result.

Just trowing it out there...

surrealnumber5

I'm assuming you are referring to the part of the survey where they show numbers on improvement of economic conditions?

First of all it's about a improvement of economic conditions where they live, consider the following:
China, who had horrid economic conditions for years shows a improvement in economic conditions thanks to a booming economy. The survey indicates this by asking Chinese wether they feel a improvement in the economic conditions where they live in. Many of them will say, Yes there is a improvement but that does not mean that they are positive about the working circumstances in general. The reverse is true for America.

Furthermore the quality of the survey is below par, the method that the survey used in China consist out of landline telephone and face to face questioning while in America they asked by cellular telephone and landline telephone. The difference between a face to face question and a question through telephone is significant, i'm sure you'll agree.

Aside from that the survey does not account for sociological differences between China and America, which a extremely important factor when measuring things like these.

Simply said, a survey that is intresting to read but poses no value as it is very unreliable.

Obama is doomed he went after pot shops when he said he would not, going against things he was elected for, he is a one term president.

Santesyu

I do think that Obama is doomed though. I think that, as always, we'll have Cool-aid drinking R's who would vote against him no matter what. And we'll have Cool-aid drinking D's that would vote for him no matter what. But, as they say, it's going to come down to the independents who don't particularly care that much about every day, party politics.

The question for these people (at least in my theory) is basically, "How is MY life going right now?" For myself, I've managed to stay gainfully employed during this whole mess (actuallymanaged to get a better jobwith better benefits than the one I had at the start of the Great Recession). However, just knowing that my industry has had TONS of lay-offs keeps me from becoming comfortable.Also, despite our household income and our savings, it's almost impossible for us to get a mortgage to purchase our first home.

Then, I think about all of the people out therewho have been unable to find a job in years, and I can't see many of them voting for Obama for a secondterm (despite the fact thatunemployment insurancekeeps getting extended).

Then there isthe fact that even those who are employed have seen big hits to their 401k's, etc.

Too many people without work (or enough work). Too many people losing orlost their homes. Too many people have a bad feeling about where we are.

A lot of the above isn't Obama's fault. That is, not solely his fault. But for the"average person" (whatever that is), the state of the nation is a completemess, and I don't predict people voting for more of the same.

I guess in short, people tend to vote to keep the status quo when they are "fat and happy." Far too few people are "fat and happy" right now. I could be wrong, but that's what I think.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

I just remembered the horrible state of the working environment in the Chinese Apple hardware production factories, there are employees dieing as a result.

Just trowing it out there...

rastotm

I'm assuming you are referring to the part of the survey where they show numbers on improvement of economic conditions?

First of all it's about a improvement of economic conditions where they live, consider the following:
China, who had horrid economic conditions for years shows a improvement in economic conditions thanks to a booming economy. The survey indicates this by asking Chinese wether they feel a improvement in the economic conditions where they live in. Many of them will say, Yes there is a improvement but that does not mean that they are positive about the working circumstances in general. The reverse is true for America.

Furthermore the quality of the survey is below par, the method that the survey used in China consist out of landline telephone and face to face questioning while in America they asked by cellular telephone and landline telephone. The difference between a face to face question and a question through telephone is significant, i'm sure you'll agree.

Aside from that the survey does not account for sociological differences between China and America, which a extremely important factor when measuring things like these.

Simply said, a survey that is intresting to read but poses no value as it is very unreliable.

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] http://www.gallup.com/poll/150224/Chinese-Rate-Job-Market-Better-Americans.aspx

surrealnumber5

I'm assuming you are referring to the part of the survey where they show numbers on improvement of economic conditions?

First of all it's about a improvement of economic conditions where they live, consider the following:
China, who had horrid economic conditions for years shows a improvement in economic conditions thanks to a booming economy. The survey indicates this by asking Chinese wether they feel a improvement in the economic conditions where they live in. Many of them will say, Yes there is a improvement but that does not mean that they are positive about the working circumstances in general. The reverse is true for America.

Furthermore the quality of the survey is below par, the method that the survey used in China consist out of landline telephone and face to face questioning while in America they asked by cellular telephone and landline telephone. The difference between a face to face question and a question through telephone is significant, i'm sure you'll agree.

Aside from that the survey does not account for sociological differences between China and America, which a extremely important factor when measuring things like these.

Simply said, a survey that is intresting to read but poses no value as it is very unreliable.

That's true, happiness is subjective to personal view...I think the point is if someone was eeking out an existence and half starving to death for most their life...even a moderate improvement in their life could be perceived as a very happy turn of events. This would hold true even if that improvement was nothing more than slave like wages and a hut to live in.

That's hard to compare against a different person who lives in a first world country, though. Take a person who may be making $20,000 less due to recession. They probably aren't too happy now and are feeling very stressed with mounting bills/ect. However, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you swapped that persons situation with the guy in the mud hut he would be even more unhappy.

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] http://www.gallup.com/poll/150224/Chinese-Rate-Job-Market-Better-Americans.aspx

surrealnumber5

I'm assuming you are referring to the part of the survey where they show numbers on improvement of economic conditions?

First of all it's about a improvement of economic conditions where they live, consider the following:
China, who had horrid economic conditions for years shows a improvement in economic conditions thanks to a booming economy. The survey indicates this by asking Chinese wether they feel a improvement in the economic conditions where they live in. Many of them will say, Yes there is a improvement but that does not mean that they are positive about the working circumstances in general. The reverse is true for America.

Furthermore the quality of the survey is below par, the method that the survey used in China consist out of landline telephone and face to face questioning while in America they asked by cellular telephone and landline telephone. The difference between a face to face question and a question through telephone is significant, i'm sure you'll agree.

Aside from that the survey does not account for sociological differences between China and America, which a extremely important factor when measuring things like these.

Simply said, a survey that is intresting to read but poses no value as it is very unreliable.

Still that survey poses no indications of Chinese being happier, it only states that they are content with the changes that are happening. Furthermore my main point was not about opinions of happyness, it was about the validity of the survey

You are free to believe that survey as I am free to believe that the survey is false, by your logic neither one of us is right untill we personally ask alot of Chinese people. Even if we do this my sociological argument still stands, Chinese people are inclined to keep their emotions to themselves and tend to refrain from complaining in public which is completely opposite to Americans. With surveys like these it's always important to realize that there is a difference between actual feelings and expressed feelings.

So, as I said before, the survey has no value and people still die while producing apple hardware in China. In the meantime the man partially responsible for those deaths tells the American president that starting a bussiniss in China is so much easier, he almost states that we should take China as a example.
IMO a ridicolous comparison.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

I'm assuming you are referring to the part of the survey where they show numbers on improvement of economic conditions?

First of all it's about a improvement of economic conditions where they live, consider the following:
China, who had horrid economic conditions for years shows a improvement in economic conditions thanks to a booming economy. The survey indicates this by asking Chinese wether they feel a improvement in the economic conditions where they live in. Many of them will say, Yes there is a improvement but that does not mean that they are positive about the working circumstances in general. The reverse is true for America.

Furthermore the quality of the survey is below par, the method that the survey used in China consist out of landline telephone and face to face questioning while in America they asked by cellular telephone and landline telephone. The difference between a face to face question and a question through telephone is significant, i'm sure you'll agree.

Aside from that the survey does not account for sociological differences between China and America, which a extremely important factor when measuring things like these.

Simply said, a survey that is intresting to read but poses no value as it is very unreliable.

Renevent42

That's true, happiness is subjective to personal view...I think the point is if someone was eeking out an existence and half starving to death for most their life...even a moderate improvement in their life could be perceived as a very happy turn of events. This would hold true even if that improvement was nothing more than slave like wages and a hut to live in.

That's hard to compare against a different person who lives in a first world country, though. Take a person who may be making $20,000 less due to recession. They probably aren't too happy now and are feeling very stressed with mounting bills/ect. However, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you swapped that persons situation with the guy in the mud hut he would be even more unhappy.