Something I learned from Pope and people's reactions

And that's that haters will hate you no matter what you do.

Why are people so pissed off that Pope encourages Christians to no longer hold a grudge against gays? Why are they so pissed off that Pope says evolution and big band are consistent with God's teachings? Why? I just don't understand. Why do some people hate others even though others don't hate them? I honestly can't think of anyone but the most depraved soul to be such a person. What are people trying to accomplish by bashing Christianity and it's likes? Why are they trying to say that religion is evil even though much worse has been done by irreligious people? Where's this hate coming from? I can't see any other reason but jealousy. People think that they are somehow inferior because they're not religious so they try to make every other person forsake his religion. Why can't you just go your own way and I go my own way?

Isn't world peace what we all seek? And tell me. Right now who is standing in the way of world peace? Is it Christians and Pope or is it people who hate Christians and Pope? Who is fueling a religious war? Tell me. If a war breaks out right now between followers of religions and atheists who is to be blamed? Why can't you just let us be and we let you be? Why do you want other people's creeds abolished?

It's silly yeah

Come down here to the Bible belt and let it be known that you're an atheist. Then let's talk about being held in contempt. As I've said before, I've lost business deals because I don't belong to a church. I'm verbally condemned to hell on a regular basis.

And instead of raising money for the hungry and downtrodden, what do the local churches focus on? Putting these signs up on the courthouse:

And if you think that isn't just to rile up the non-religious, you should really read the local discourse online and in the local papers.

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I'm tired of catering to the minority and listening to these gutless, godless cowards!

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love it or leave it commie

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You non-believers better get your shit straight before you end up left behind. You're head comes off just as easy as everyone else that claims they know what's going on. The only difference is your afterlife isn't going to be what you think it'll be.

I challenge you to pray in Jesus' name for a while and see where your heart is and where it needs to be.

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Gladly most non believers are accepting

@br0kenrabbit: Just out of curiosity, why would you want to live in a place that openly discriminates against you for your lack of beliefs? I would want to leave if for no other reason than to avoid giving the locals who constantly bash me my money. I know I wouldn't want to live in some town that supports the KKK, for example.

Once thing you have to realize about the Pope is he is the leader of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church may be the largest denomination of Christianity but it isn't the only denomination. Some denominations even openly state that the Pope is going to Hell because his very position is considered blasphemy.

Certain denominations of Christianity do not allow compromise when it comes to accepting what may be a sin. Some denominations even prohibit becoming friends with people who don't worship like you do. I know of a few that require you to attempt to convert nonbelievers and if they refuse then you are required to shun them.

You also have to consider that a verbal minority will be louder than a silent majority. Believe it or not, not all Christians think the world is only 6,000 years old and Satan planted dinosaur bones to create doubt among believers that would question why the Bible doesn't mention dinosaurs.

I grew up here, my roots are here, my family is here. My parents are aging and someone has to keep the horse farm going...it's been in the family for four generations. My sister has 4 kids, my brother is a drunk. If I don't do it, no one will.

I refuse to be ran off. I learned how to aggressively defend myself both physically and verbally long, long ago. I am not one who can be intimidated, I do the intimidating. If someone starts on me about "The Bible says this, The Bible says that," I've educated myself enough (by learning Greek and Hebrew and reading the REAL Bible) that I've often brought people to tears by beating them over their heads with their ignorance of their own faith. It's a defense mechanism, and one that I wield without reserve.

In short: they can kiss my brown puckered asshole.

@br0kenrabbit: Makes sense when you put it that way. I guess from personal experience I just try to avoid hostile situations, but my roots aren't dug in nearly as deep so I can get away from areas that have people who want to call me an Uncle Tom for my career choices.

There are people here who don't like me, but the people I care to associate with will tell you I'm about the nicest person they've ever met. I will bend over backward for people if they have done me no wrong and expect nothing in return. But I do hold grudges, and if you're one of the people I have a grudge against, I make no secret about it whatsoever.

I'm pretty outspoken, and I will straight-up tell someone they are shit if they are shit. I call things as I see them (the farm boy in me) and if things get hostile, I'm right there. It's been many, many years since I've been in an actual physical confrontation, but that's mostly because I can be so intimidating. Once people figure I just might kick their ass they have a way of finding an exit.

Really the only people who bother me now are people who haven't met me. Those who knock on my door to invite me to church (despite my large and unmissable 'no-trespassing' and 'no soliciting' signs), for instance. I will converse politely with them, explain my position and take the opportunity to quiz them on their knowledge (I like to see if they know what they're talking about, usually they don't), point out my signs and tell them not to come back, and typically that's that.

But every once and again, the firebrand-type show up. The type who won't let me go without taking their pamphlets, or who won't leave my property until they get their spiel off, or who stand there after me asking them to leave and tell me that I'm hellbound. Then I get real hostile, real fast.

I have grabbed motherfuckers by the hair and threw them off my property, I've belted my gun and started counting, when my dog was still alive I had quite a bit of fun with him, pretending to barely be able to hold him back. My ultimate goal here is that churches start telling people "canvass the neighborhood, expect for THAT house. That dude will send you to meet Jesus today."

@br0kenrabbit said:

Come down here to the Bible belt and let it be known that you're an atheist. Then let's talk about being held in contempt. As I've said before, I've lost business deals because I don't belong to a church. I'm verbally condemned to hell on a regular basis.

And instead of raising money for the hungry and downtrodden, what do the local churches focus on? Putting these signs up on the courthouse:

And if you think that isn't just to rile up the non-religious, you should really read the local discourse online and in the local papers.

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I'm tired of catering to the minority and listening to these gutless, godless cowards!

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love it or leave it commie

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You non-believers better get your shit straight before you end up left behind. You're head comes off just as easy as everyone else that claims they know what's going on. The only difference is your afterlife isn't going to be what you think it'll be.

I challenge you to pray in Jesus' name for a while and see where your heart is and where it needs to be.

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yeah, and that sucks.

However, once you make CHRISTIANS out to be the enemy, then you're begging them to fight back.

It's like, suppose you were a black man living in the 1960's in predominantly white USA. Sucks, right? However, what's more effective at instituting change for the better? Someone who takes the high ground like Martin Luther King, or an angry black man with a "**** whitey" attitude? When you're in the minority, treating the other side as the enemy because of who they are (rather than their actions) does not typically tend to turn out well. Do you want to know why an atheist like me has such a problem with people "dissing" Christians? Because I hate religious persecution too. I want religious persecution to go away. And whenever I see an atheist hating on Christians for being Christians, I see someone fueling the moral backlash against religious tolerance. Someone who claims to be against religious persecution would sort of have to be an idiot to engage in behavior that only results in the religious majority pushing back harder.

See, here's the thing...while some Christians don't allow compromise, some atheists vilify compromise as well. That is to say, if you're a Christian who holds a grudge against gays, then they hate you. However, if you do compromise and end up accepting gays, then they STILL hate you just as much because refusing to take every word of your holy text at literal face value somehow makes you a hypocrite.

But the bottom line is that for those people, they will ALWAYS hate you as long as you're a Christian. That's now no longer an attack against what you DO, that's an attack against who you ARE.

Agree with geezer and ad1x2

To a large degree

I can see how it comes off that I hate all Christians, but I really don't. Many of my friends and especially my family are Christians. There are, however, two types of Christians I do hate.

1. The hypocritical. These are the types who condemn homosexuality, yet are on their second or third marriage. They pick-and-choose what aspects of their faith should be enforced, and this isn't Christianity at all. They're just using quotes from the Bible to backup their bigotry. It isn't because "the Bible says," it's because "I hate this, and I found this in The Bible, so there."

2. Those who use their faith as a banner. These are the people I quoted above in my first response to this thread. They're better than me 'because'. This isn't Christianity, either...it's misplaced pride.

It's just around here (East Tennessee), and in all the other places I've lived (North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Ontario Canada) those two aspects seem to go hand-in-hand with the 'religious'. They're too ignorant and proud to see their own hypocrisy.

And as anyone who's read my posts enough on this forum knows, I hate hypocrites as much as I can hate anyone.

@alim298: While I agree with the sentiment that everybody (even atheists) should embrace the idea of religions becoming more progressive, you are making quite a few assumptions about the personality and motives of people you don't even though, which ironically, is where things start to go wrong. Don't judge people, help them understand if you can (and if they're willing to be helped) but if you have a confrontational attitude from the start, confrontation is all you're going to get.

@br0kenrabbit: Somehow I pictured a sign in your front yard saying "You're trespassing because you love Jesus? Come on it, I'll arrange a meeting with Him for you" and it did not seem out of place at all =P

I have no hate for religious people, but I do have some problems with their beliefs (otherwise I probably wouldn't be an atheist). Sticking to Christianity here, since it was the religion I was raised in, I normally have trouble befriending Christians who are really devoted (although I have no trouble being pleasant and socialize with them, unless they get in my face).

If they are Bible riders then they're normally out of contact with reality and have enough prejudice to drown themselves and anyone around them in, which ironically makes them act the opposite of what their precious bible tells them to; if they are a bit more progressive and don't take the bible as 100% truth, then they are normally easier to talk to, but the pick-and-choose attitude that they are so fond of is very irritating....in the end the truth in the bible is confined to the parts that they agree with (stuff like br0kenrabbit mentioned...."My third wife agrees that gays are going to hell") and they use it to spread the hate. Then you have those who use religion to ease their conscience...one of my neighbors would cheat on her husband often, spend her days drinking and smoking, gossiping and slandering, stealing whenever she could, beating her kids to ease the anger but she'd say to anyone who would listen that her conscience was at peace because she would "wash her sins away every Sunday at mass"....the almighty power of the Sunday cookie...

@korvus

There are actually quite a few religious people I can tolerate just fine. These are the people who hold themselves to their beliefs and don't worry about others. The way it should be.

Unfortunately, religion in the US just isn't like that for the most part: they want their fingers in everybody's vagina.

@br0kenrabbit: Fingering for God. Sounds like the name of a charity.

I'm on it. :-p

Hmm you can't just expect someone to just let you go ahead and believe whatever you want. Think about it this way. They want to save you from the hellfire. It's not some joke where, okay I do this, you do that. Of course they are not to force you to accept their religion. But please try to understand what their intentions are. If you accept the word of God, then you know that his words are perfect. I'm not a Christian, but I acknowledge that there are still remnants of the truth in the Bible, that perhaps people did not mistranslate or fabricate. And also the previous books, such as the Psalms of David, the Torah and the Gospel.

The belief involves calling to others to accept the word of God. Yet again, not by force, but by arguing in the manner which is most honorable. I can understand that it may annoy you sometimes if they keep talking about it. In my case, I am careful to not get to the point of annoying them. I pick my moments wisely. At the same time, I am also on the quest for the truth. So let us all strive for this noble goal!

world peace will never come.
the one standing in world's peace is us. ALL OF US.
that includes you,me,my religion and your religion

This is exactly what I expect, in matters religious or otherwise as long as I'm not affecting their lives with my beliefs. Just like I don't approach religious people and try to convince them to abandon their God. I'm fairly certain that your God (whichever it may be) will not be a new concept for whoever you approach...if people are searching for God they'll make their own mind about which to choose and how religious they want to be; we don't need to try and be converted by everyone.

That being said, I'm not too terribly upset when approached by religious people who try to convert me as long as they stop when I say "thank you for the nice thought, but I'm not interested". I understand that it's coming from a good place even though the delivery is sometimes more insulting than anything else...that being said, my soul is mine to do what I please with it.

Because deep down in almost every single human being, there's what would certainly be referred to nowadays as a bigoted and intolerant man, existing in various proportions of course. I understand your dismay, which seems to be coming from the notion that if we remedy and settle the sources of dispute and contention between people then we should be getting along flawlessly. Any further disagreement or lack of tolerance would be rendered irrational, lacking any real grounds for justifying its existence. While it may seem so, further consideration will reveal that its not all that irrational after all. In reality, the origin of all dispute and antagonism between people is constituted in two things: expediency and ideology, even though the two could be lumped together as "human nature" but that in my opinion would be of no practical use. The former constituent of that antagonism between individual can, although not necessarily easily or often, be remedied. The latter however is truly irremediable. It is a status quo that has governed human civilization since its inception. Different ideologies compete against each other for perpetuation and supremacy. It is necessary therefore to try and abolish other ideologies to the extent of one single ideology's ability. All of this is constituted of course in the adherents of these ideologies; after all, ideologies are abstract notions that are the products of human minds and can only materialize through followers. Atheist would like to see the entire world being atheist, theists would want nothing more than a God-fearing world in ceaseless and perpetual prayer. Naturally the two are as far compatible with each other as can be.

And to answer your question as of who is fueling a religious war: it is the historical inability of either sides to abolish the other.

@korvus: Well, there is no such thing as 'which' God tbh cuz there is only one. But yeah... totally get you bro. I'm just saying that religion is not something to be taken so lightly like it's some kind of hobby or something. It literally will affect all of us regardless of whether we choose to believe in it or not. Now, I know that you will ask me about my insistence on 'fairy tales' as the truth, but well, that is up to you to find out whether they truly are fairy tales or not. Anyways, I end my statement here and wish you the best in this life with the sincere hope that you will continue to seek the truth :)

@BboyStatix: I won't question your faith; it's something that's important to you and part of who you are, so I have no right to question it or mock it...I've had my fair share of religious discussions here in GS but they've always been about me wanting to know more and not about proving someone else's ideas and beliefs wrong. I know what you mean about there only being one God, I was merely referring to the fact that if you're not already part of a specific religion then you have a great deal of choice for which God you believe to be real; whether anyone is right or not on their choice, I cannot say. I guess what matters is that the choice is right for them.

Let me guess, Stalin and Mao? The same typical bullshit argument the religious come up with to somehow distract from the fact that millions of people have died at the hands of the religious... for distinctly religious reasons (especially recently with Muslims extremists).

The whole point of people saying "religion is evil" isn't because it as an entity is doing things, it's that it can so easily inspirepeople to do things they normally might not consider doing, because their religious authority (whether priest or God) tells them to. And did you ever think that it was maybe not the religion they were talking about but the organized institutions that they are labeling as evil?

Hmm....religious conflicts are estimated at less than 7%.....but keep on believing....it's just another example of why people will never get along. Kudos.

@br0kenrabbit said:

Come down here to the Bible belt and let it be known that you're an atheist. Then let's talk about being held in contempt. As I've said before, I've lost business deals because I don't belong to a church. I'm verbally condemned to hell on a regular basis.

And instead of raising money for the hungry and downtrodden, what do the local churches focus on? Putting these signs up on the courthouse:

And if you think that isn't just to rile up the non-religious, you should really read the local discourse online and in the local papers.

__________________________________________________________________

I'm tired of catering to the minority and listening to these gutless, godless cowards!

__________________________________________________________________

love it or leave it commie

__________________________________________________________________

You non-believers better get your shit straight before you end up left behind. You're head comes off just as easy as everyone else that claims they know what's going on. The only difference is your afterlife isn't going to be what you think it'll be.

I challenge you to pray in Jesus' name for a while and see where your heart is and where it needs to be.

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come here, let me love you.

Do you also happen to know the % of conflicts started due to lack of religion?

How is that any different from people being inspired by some authority following any nonreligious ideology or line of thinking to commit any number of atrocities? That's a very legitimate question. In what way is religion supposedly inspiring others to do bad shit different from elitism, fascism, colonialism, chauvinism, xenophobia, imperialism etc etc inspiring people to do bad shit?

ethnic nationalism ding ding ding.

number one killer in human history

edit: although perhaps im being too brash

Pretty hilarious how many believe in a made up place like like hell.

I give no care what someone believes or how someone behaves so long as they are not harming others or forcing their beliefs upon others. Be what you want to be, ignore the folks that have been brainwashed, and let the anger you feel go.

Why would anyone be mad? I think it's great the Pope is starting to encourage his followers to begin rooting their beliefs and viewpoints in reality as opposed to their own interpretations of scripture.

i agree, it's about time that these priests can marry these little boys and bugger them right out in the open instead of having to hide their love.

It baffles me how this simple notion escapes so many people nowadays. Religion is a creed, an ideology like the countless ideologies that have existed and exist at the present time. There's nothing exclusive to religion that would render it more capable of inciting violence and inspiring others to wage bloody wars of mass murder and ravaging. An infinite number of wars have been instigated and many a genocide have been carried out in the name of whatever that you can momentarily think of, yet religion gets the flak, the lion share of it at least.

Personally I believe that the explanation of this phenomenon is twofold. First is the fact that its the nature of religion, the prevalent and historically relevant ones at least, to entail and attempt to impose what are currently regarded as antiquated notions of virtue. In other words, religion is perceived as standing in the way of licentiousness, incontinence, intemperance, lewdness, indolence and many other wonderful things of modern civilization. Second, it has to do with the fact that right now western civilization is largely the hegemon civilization with the claim for supremacy. At any specific epoch its always the hegemon of that epoch that dictates the opinion of what is terrible and what is not. The larger part of western civilization seems to have had a traumatic and fairly recent experience with religion and therefore its the source of the larger part of discourse and conflict that has to do with religion; it is its origin. If in some alternate reality the USSR won the cold war and was currently the hegemon of the present epoch of that alternate reality, you'd find out that the most rebuked and ostracized notion would be "private property".

Do you really view the west with such disdain?

You are exactly right. No matter what you do, someone will hate you for it. Are you religious? Someone will hate you because you're not a member of their religion. Are you an atheist? Someone will hate you because you're godless. Do you do a lot to help others? Someone will hate you because you enable poor behavior. Do you do nothing? Someone will hate you because you're selfish.

Just do what you think is right, keep learning and growing so you better understand what you think is right and why you think it is so, and defend actions when necessary so that, perhaps, others will grow.

Even within the same church, there is conflict about what is right and wrong. There is currently a large shift occurring in the US protestant community regarding the role of the church and each Christian in it. The older portion is largely in the Moral Majority's viewpoint that it should be in the political social activism realm. The younger portion is largely in the view that it has no business in social politics and should be more in the business of personal and organizational service to others.

As for me, I intentionally sought out a church that is very active in both service and discussion/debate. It fits me well.

As with most things on the internet, people just attack shit (and each other) for an ego boost.

What's funny is nobody realizes what the Pope said has been the Catholic Church's official position on the subject matter for decades. It's rather silly everyone is going around acting like this is newsworthy...

That's one way to look at it. Another would be that I make these things the target of my disdain wherever they exist and in whatever proportion, even in my own self. Truth be told, these things among other expressions of demoralization are found pretty much everywhere, but their profusion in the western world remains exceptional I guess. It certainly could be argued that the western world is responsible for their current prevalence and volume.

I'm fully aware of the fact that such a view of these things is quite antiquated nonetheless.

i learned how to launder mob money from him.

it's nice we can all get something from religion isn't it?

Well, you know, one aspect of personal freedom is that you will be exposed to things you don't agree with. I don't understand why people have such a hard time just worrying about themselves.

view it with disdain, write about it with a thesaurus

the ali way

We can more or less agree on that much, for the time being at least.

You never run out do you

unfair

It took a lot of moderation to not comment about brokenrabbit's habit of beating people to tears with knowledge

ever read /r/worldnews, or /r/news? Or even just turn on a tv...the pope could take a shit and hit the front page. He isn't groundbreaking, he's just friendly. Nothing's changed except character and his organization is still a criminal one. The big bang/evolution news one is just the icing on the cake, showing people will lap up anything he does that sounds remotely nice or new, even if it's been the church's position for decades.

Actually there is one thing that separates religion from all other forces and it has nothing to do virtue or hegemony. And the inverse of that attribute is an essential pillar of modern liberal democracy.

That may very well be true but its kind of irrelevant to what we're discussing here: religion's alleged [exclusive] ability to incite violent behavior in individuals.

Thank you! I've been saying for -years- that Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington created the universe but nobody ever believed me. Thank you, pope!

-Byshop

"hater's will hate you no matter what you do". Yep. I guess "hating" becomes habitual and overpowering. Though I think people overuse the term hater to the point where things that aren't really hate are considered "hate".

These things are not new to Pope Francis. I'm not really sure what you mean by "holding a grudge against gays", but Pope's for a while have encouraged that homosexual persons (Church documents referring to homosexuality use the term homosexual as an adjective not as a noun, they say "homosexual persons" or "persons with homosexual tendencies", not "homosexuals" because the emphasis here is that they are people - hence created in the image and likeness of God) be "accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2358). Previous pope's likewise accepted evolution saying that it does not conflict with the faith, and they have accepted the Big Bang theory (one of the scientists who first proposed this Big Bang Theory - Msgr. Georges Lemaitre - was actually a priest).