So I was arguing with a conservative today @ school

Here was his arguements:

• FDR, Woodrow Wilson were one of the worst presidents in history
• Republicans were responsible for the roaring 20's but NOT for the depression
• FDR didnt do anything to alleviate the depression
• We were winning the war in Iraq and Afghanastan until Obama went in office
• Give tax cuts to the rich so they can make jobs to stimulate the economy
• Eliminate Social Security and medicare
• The Democratic presidents started every war the US has been into

I could not reason with him...who believes in this crap? (No offense)

I believe that giving tax cuts to the rich might stimulate the economy and make jobs but you can't guarantee how they will spend their money. Spending it though in general will stimulate the economy. The rest of his points I do not agree with

Oh, your first encounter with a conservative?

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

Oh, your first encounter with a conservative?

Necrifer

Just my first real arguement with one

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

Pirate700

There were a couple more that I agreed with but the rest are nowhere near true.

Here was his arguements:

• FDR, Woodrow Wilson were one of the worst presidents in history
• Republicans were responsible for the roaring 20's but NOT for the depression

Repubs are now getting blamed for everything. lol

• FDR didnt do anything to alleviate the depression
• We were winning the war in Iraq and Afghanastan until Obama went in office

So quitting a war isn't losing? Thats a loss to me. What happens when you quit Call of Duty in the middle of an online match? It counts as a loss, does it not?

• Give tax cuts to the rich so they can make jobs to stimulate the economy

True. They provide jobs to people and with less taxes on them, they can employ more people. Don't hate just because they are rich

• Eliminate Social Security and medicare

Can't say anything since my mom's on Social Security. Medicare? Yeah get rid of the Obama reforms...

• The Democratic presidents started every war the US has been into

Nope, thats false...

I could not reason with him...who believes in this crap?

DroidPhysX

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

Pirate700

Based on 10 years of evidence.. The tax breaks caused two things for the rich.. The rich got richer.. And the middle class shrank.. This seems to be a complete contradiction of the idea.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

Here was his arguements:

• FDR, Woodrow Wilson were one of the worst presidents in history
• Republicans were responsible for the roaring 20's but NOT for the depression

Repubs are now getting blamed for everything. lol

• FDR didnt do anything to alleviate the depression
• We were winning the war in Iraq and Afghanastan until Obama went in office

So quitting a war isn't losing? Thats a loss to me. What happens when you quit Call of Duty in the middle of an online match? It counts as a loss, does it not?

• Give tax cuts to the rich so they can make jobs to stimulate the economy

True. They provide jobs to people and with less taxes on them, they can employ more people. Don't hate just because they are rich

• Eliminate Social Security and medicare

Can't say anything since my mom's on Social Security. Medicare? Yeah get rid of the Obama reforms...

• The Democratic presidents started every war the US has been into

Nope, thats false...

I could not reason with him...who believes in this crap?

bbkkristian

It is sad that blind partisanship exists, which is why you should go to

The Democrats did get us into the Civil War, the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, though.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

sSubZerOo

Based on 10 years of evidence.. The tax breaks caused two things for the rich.. The rich got richer.. And the middle class shrank.. This seems to be a complete contradiction of the idea.

It is sad that blind partisanship exists, which is why you should go to

Former_Slacker

Is that post meant to be ironic?

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

sSubZerOo

Based on 10 years of evidence.. The tax breaks caused two things for the rich.. The rich got richer.. And the middle class shrank.. This seems to be a complete contradiction of the idea.

This, wages have been stagnant since the 1980s and jobs have been shipped overseas. All while the cost of living rises.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

Here was his arguements:

• FDR, Woodrow Wilson were one of the worst presidents in history
• Republicans were responsible for the roaring 20's but NOT for the depression

Repubs are now getting blamed for everything. lol

• FDR didnt do anything to alleviate the depression
• We were winning the war in Iraq and Afghanastan until Obama went in office

So quitting a war isn't losing? Thats a loss to me. What happens when you quit Call of Duty in the middle of an online match? It counts as a loss, does it not?

• Give tax cuts to the rich so they can make jobs to stimulate the economy

True. They provide jobs to people and with less taxes on them, they can employ more people. Don't hate just because they are rich

• Eliminate Social Security and medicare

Can't say anything since my mom's on Social Security. Medicare? Yeah get rid of the Obama reforms...

• The Democratic presidents started every war the US has been into

Nope, thats false...

I could not reason with him...who believes in this crap?

bbkkristian

.. Yet the past 10 years jobs have been shrinking not growing.. All when the rich have gained immense wealth.. Clearly your idea does not match with reality.. that the richer the rich are, does not mean jobs are created what so ever.. In fact some of the best times in history economically when the US was growing such as after World War 2.. The Gap between middle class and the elite were extremely small compared to today.

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

Pirate700

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

chessmaster1989

That last part is very true. There is a plan with bipartisan support that would lower corporate taxes while eliminating corporate welfare in the works right now.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

Pirate700

Based on 10 years of evidence.. The tax breaks caused two things for the rich.. The rich got richer.. And the middle class shrank.. This seems to be a complete contradiction of the idea.

What does this have ANYTHING to do with my point? You said you do need to give tax cuts to the rich... I just pointed out that it doesn't matter.. What occured in the past 10 years has shown these things.. Not to mention a increasing government debt.. And yes something is wrong with the rich getting richer, because its destroying the middle class.. THE BACK bone of the UNITED STATES.. In which the US gained its super power.. The countries that are economically weak or unstable are the ones with vast wealth gaps between the poor and rich. ARE WE seeing a pattern here? Could it be that a countries success is built upon a healthy Middle Class?

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

Necrifer

There were a couple more that I agreed with but the rest are nowhere near true.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

chessmaster1989

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

Pirate700

I support this completely.

Edit: Although I'd assume most people in the upper class either inherit their wealth or make it off of the stock market. That and the fact that the bonuses and lavish pension plans CEOs receive far outweigh their salaries.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

Pirate700

I'm not familiar with specific tax brackets, but I'm all for breaking the tax brackets into smaller intervals.

Also would support eliminating the estate tax and possibly raising the tax rate on high income earners (>$1 million maybe). At the very least we need to raise the exemption level for the estate tax dramatically.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]

We DO need to give tax cuts to the rich. The rest on there not so much.

Pirate700

And they are in two different tax brackets already.. Your point? :| Regardless of how you would like to spin it.. There is obvious reasons why its good to be rich.. Even with taxes.. Or are you going to argue here its not worth making 10 million a year when you get taxed 50%.. And you should just stick to making 50k a year.. There is always reasons to make more money.. Taxes do not disuade any one from it.

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

Here was his arguements:

• FDR, Woodrow Wilson were one of the worst presidents in history
• Republicans were responsible for the roaring 20's but NOT for the depression

Repubs are now getting blamed for everything. lol

• FDR didnt do anything to alleviate the depression
• We were winning the war in Iraq and Afghanastan until Obama went in office

So quitting a war isn't losing? Thats a loss to me. What happens when you quit Call of Duty in the middle of an online match? It counts as a loss, does it not?

• Give tax cuts to the rich so they can make jobs to stimulate the economy

True. They provide jobs to people and with less taxes on them, they can employ more people. Don't hate just because they are rich

• Eliminate Social Security and medicare

Can't say anything since my mom's on Social Security. Medicare? Yeah get rid of the Obama reforms...

• The Democratic presidents started every war the US has been into

Nope, thats false...

I could not reason with him...who believes in this crap?

sSubZerOo

.. Yet the past 10 years jobs have been shrinking not growing.. All when the rich have gained immense wealth.. Clearly your idea does not match with reality.. that the richer the rich are, does not mean jobs are created what so ever.. In fact some of the best times in history economically when the US was growing such as after World War 2.. The Gap between middle class and the elite were extremely small compared to today.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]

bbkkristian

.. Yet the past 10 years jobs have been shrinking not growing.. All when the rich have gained immense wealth.. Clearly your idea does not match with reality.. that the richer the rich are, does not mean jobs are created what so ever.. In fact some of the best times in history economically when the US was growing such as after World War 2.. The Gap between middle class and the elite were extremely small compared to today.

You stated that the rich should have lower taxes because they create jobs and employ people, he proved your point wrong. Don't use strawmen please.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"] Not really, there are more efficient ways of stimulating the economy. If you want to give tax cuts to anyone, it should be to the middle and lower class, who almost certainly have a higher MPC (I don't have specific data on it which is why I say almost certainly). Business tax cuts would probably work better than upper class tax cuts honestly.sSubZerOo

And they are in two different tax brackets already.. Your point? :| Regardless of how you would like to spin it.. There is obvious reasons why its good to be rich.. Even with taxes.. Or are you going to argue here its not worth making 10 million a year when you get taxed 50%.. And you should just stick to making 50k a year.. There is always reasons to make more money.. Taxes do not disuade any one from it.

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

.. Yet the past 10 years jobs have been shrinking not growing.. All when the rich have gained immense wealth.. Clearly your idea does not match with reality.. that the richer the rich are, does not mean jobs are created what so ever.. In fact some of the best times in history economically when the US was growing such as after World War 2.. The Gap between middle class and the elite were extremely small compared to today.

Former_Slacker

You stated that the rich should have lower taxes because they create jobs and employ people, he proved your point wrong. Don't use strawmen please.

bbkkristian

Are you hands a bit full at the moment? I was hoping for an explaination as to why you agreed with getting rid of medicare....

Actually, the give the rich tax breaks kinda makes sense if they're gonna go out and hire more people or start up a business.

It is sad that blind partisanship exists, which is why you should go to

Former_Slacker

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]

Baconbits2004

Are you hands a bit full at the moment? I was hoping for an explaination as to why you agreed with getting rid of medicare....

Actually, the give the rich tax breaks kinda makes sense if they're gonna go out and hire more people or start up a business.

TSNAKE617

[QUOTE="Former_Slacker"]

It is sad that blind partisanship exists, which is why you should go to

testfactor888

But I hate Jon Stewart and don't find him funny :o

A lot of people don't.

I just thought I'd remove his face from my post.:P

[QUOTE="TSNAKE617"]

Actually, the give the rich tax breaks kinda makes sense if they're gonna go out and hire more people or start up a business.

bbkkristian

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]I don't mean just to stimulate the economy. I think SOME of the rich are taxed too much. I think we need to add another tax bracket. There is a HUGE difference between someone making six figures and someone making 20mil.

Pirate700

And they are in two different tax brackets already.. Your point? :| Regardless of how you would like to spin it.. There is obvious reasons why its good to be rich.. Even with taxes.. Or are you going to argue here its not worth making 10 million a year when you get taxed 50%.. And you should just stick to making 50k a year.. There is always reasons to make more money.. Taxes do not disuade any one from it.

A tax is not a punishment.. Its a duty every one does.. For obvious reasons the wealthyw ill pay more.. They hav ehte majority of wealth. To pay a flat tax means the governmetn would never be able to flourish.. FURTHERMORE they got this wealth through the system the US uses.. They owe a debt to society like we all do, and they have benefited from it the most..

Of course they should be taxed more but being taxed 40% when you're making six figures isn't nearly as fair as the same percentage when you're making millions. IMO, there needs to be a "super rich" bracket which there currently isn't. Someone making 300k is taxed the same percentage as someone making 100mil and that isn't right.

I agree.. The super rich are taxed too little..

[QUOTE="Baconbits2004"]

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]

bbkkristian

Are you hands a bit full at the moment? I was hoping for an explaination as to why you agreed with getting rid of medicare....

Actually, the give the rich tax breaks kinda makes sense if they're gonna go out and hire more people or start up a business.

TSNAKE617

Except it hasn't happened.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

And they are in two different tax brackets already.. Your point? :| Regardless of how you would like to spin it.. There is obvious reasons why its good to be rich.. Even with taxes.. Or are you going to argue here its not worth making 10 million a year when you get taxed 50%.. And you should just stick to making 50k a year.. There is always reasons to make more money.. Taxes do not disuade any one from it.

sSubZerOo

A tax is not a punishment.. Its a duty every one does.. For obvious reasons the wealthyw ill pay more.. They hav ehte majority of wealth. To pay a flat tax means the governmetn would never be able to flourish.. FURTHERMORE they got this wealth through the system the US uses.. They owe a debt to society like we all do, and they have benefited from it the most..

Of course they should be taxed more but being taxed 40% when you're making six figures isn't nearly as fair as the same percentage when you're making millions. IMO, there needs to be a "super rich" bracket which there currently isn't. Someone making 300k is taxed the same percentage as someone making 100mil and that isn't right.

I agree.. The super rich are taxed too little..

Someone making 300k is taxed the same percentage as someone making 100mil and that isn't right.

Pirate700

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"][QUOTE="TSNAKE617"]

Actually, the give the rich tax breaks kinda makes sense if they're gonna go out and hire more people or start up a business.

guynamedbilly

He forgot to add that Reagan won the cold war, but i'll give him points for effort.fidosim

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]My only two points are I think the wealthy are taxed too much. Making a lot of money doesn't mean you should be punished for it.

A tax is not a punishment.. Its a duty every one does.. For obvious reasons the wealthyw ill pay more.. They hav ehte majority of wealth. To pay a flat tax means the governmetn would never be able to flourish.. FURTHERMORE they got this wealth through the system the US uses.. They owe a debt to society like we all do, and they have benefited from it the most..

Of course they should be taxed more but being taxed 40% when you're making six figures isn't nearly as fair as the same percentage when you're making millions. IMO, there needs to be a "super rich" bracket which there currently isn't. Someone making 300k is taxed the same percentage as someone making 100mil and that isn't right.

Pirate700

I agree.. The super rich are taxed too little..

If the taxes were too much.. We would see the elite struggling.. But they are not.. They are in fact getting richer.. And the Middle class and poor are getting poorer.. If they were getting taxed so much, we wouldn't be this..

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

I agree.. The super rich are taxed too little..

sSubZerOo

If the taxes were too much.. We would see the elite struggling.. But they are not.. They are in fact getting richer.. And the Middle class and poor are getting poorer.. If they were getting taxed so much, we wouldn't be this..

[QUOTE="fidosim"]He forgot to add that Reagan won the cold war, but i'll give him points for effort.Sajo7

[QUOTE="Sajo7"][QUOTE="fidosim"]He forgot to add that Reagan won the cold war, but i'll give him points for effort.fidosim