Robbery Victim Charged With Murder

U.K. citizen Derek Grant is being charged with murder for killing the man who robbed his son at knife point. Patrick Bradley, the "victim," was confronted by Derek, who located him via an app ("Find My iPhone"), and attacked Derek by stabbing/ cutting him in the eye. Derek responded by defending himself with a knife he brought to protect himself, stabbing Bradley to death.

Article.

That sounds like premeditated murder. He had no reason to confront the man himself, should have just called the cops.

Ok, so what are your thoughts in this matter?

Snap son!

Not necessarily. To me it sounds like an angry father who wanted to confront the man who robbed his son at knife point by giving him a few words and taking back the phone. I don't think he intended for things to go as far as they did. You have to realize, this man's son was robbed at knife point.

@emil_fontz: Okay, so the deceased man robbed this guy's son at knife point. That doesn't help your argument - if anything, it simply gives this guy a motive to murder the robber.

In any case, we have a situation where a guy located a robber...and rather than doing the sensible thing and calling the police, he chose to confront the robber with a knife, and ultimately stabbed him to death (presumably multiple times).

It isn't too much of a stretch to say that he approached the robber with an intent to kill or seriously injure him. Charging him with murder seems like a good idea. Perhaps a jury will disagree with the charges, but it's certainly worth trying in a criminal trial.

If he got stabbed in the eye and had to fight back in self-defense, then the court is retarded for charging him.

TYT is stupid though, they bring up the Trayvon Martin case and start spouting a bunch of bullshit. Uh I hate these people sometimes.

@RadecSupreme: Courts don't charge people. You get charged then brought to court, where (typically) a jury decides whether or not the charges are stupid.

Well Grant certainly started the confrontation, but since Bradley was the one who attacked first, and was definitely trying to kill him, I'd say it's not murder.

That doesn't change anything, he still confronted this man and planned it beforehand. For all we know (the article is terrible, lol Mirror) the "thug" feared for his safety and lashed out so in truth he would be the one acting in self defense.

unless the father attacked, it would be unreasonable for him to fear for his safety to the point of trying trying to kill someone.

confronting a robber who had a knife is stupid and reckless, but that doesn't make it premeditated murder when the robber tries to kill him.

He is entitled to defend himself, but the situation could have been entirely avoided had he decided not to confront the attacker and instead go to the police.

I know people are debating the guilt of the father, but unless I missed something this part just seems wrong:

"His three sons were also accused of murder but their not guilty pleas were also accepted."

(from the linked article)

Although, I'm not sure why he brought all three of his sons to confront a violent criminal

@lostrib: Oh yeah, didn't see that bit.

I also missed the part where he pleaded guilty to culpable homicide. So I suppose the arguments of guilt or innocence don't really matter much anymore.

I don't really know anything about Scottish law, but I doubt he'll get a serious sentence for this, considering what happened. There are heaps of factors in his favour, so he may not even go to jail for this.

And apparently after that, at the confrontation, it was still the other guy who attacked first. Yeah, that isn't premeditated murder. That's a father being a fucking man, and taking out the trash when words didn't work. Good riddance to the dead piece of shit. I hope Derek gets out of those charges, though I don't have high hopes, being the UK and all.

@the_bi99man: Um, when words don't work, the correct thing to do is call the police.

If he did that, he wouldn't have been stabbed in the eye or charged with murder.

So many people advocating violence...I wonder how many of you would actually do the same thing this guy did...I'm betting not many since I refuse to believe you're all idiots...

@the_bi99man: "That's a father being a fucking man, and taking out the trash when words didn't work. Good riddance to the dead piece of shit. I hope Derek gets out of those charges, though I don't have high hopes, being the UK and all"

What a meat head you are, how can you protect your kids if you are in jail? He should have called the police simple, now he faces possible time in jail.

So in the video they cast some doubt on the story and say that the father may have started stabbing first or at least alluding to the fact that's what the police may have believed...either way...not enough information for me to make any judgement. If the father was stabbed first, though, clearly self defense and in my opinion the police/courts/DA have it wrong.

The fact that he brought the three sons makes me think that he didn't intend to murder Bradley, the thief. I don't think he'd want his sons to become murderers. I think he brought them along so that the particular son that was robbed could confront his "bully" while being protected by his father and brothers.

Yeah, it actually does. He stopped being a threat when he died.

LMAO. Anyhow, in my opinion, once someone physically offends someone else, their rights should be forfeited.

Especially when a knife or gun is in play. It's not hard for the blade to cut or penetrate at just the right depth, and in just the right spot, and you bleed to death. It only takes ONE cut or stab like that. If someone attacks you with a knife, they have just put your life in imminent danger and you have absolutely every logical right to respond with deadly force. In that situation, it is not possible for most people to have the self control to only stab or cut a "little bit" or enough to make the other person go away.

You have been assaulted with a deadly weapon. Your life is in imminent danger, you are injured, you are panicked, and you are FULL of adrenaline. When you fight back the other person is injured, panicked, and also believe their life to be in imminent danger and full of adrenaline as well… so their most natural response is to defend themselves in the same you are. They are not going to simply throw it down and run away, (if they do yeah it's a crime to pursue it farther) they are going to try to kill you, this time intentionally. (if they didn't intend to the first time)

The idea that if someone attacks you with a deadly weapon that you are not allowed to defend yourself and preserve your life in any fashion possible, is utterly absurd. When you attack someone with a weapon, never do so without realizing well in advance that by doing so you have also possibly forfeited your own life.

The only people who could really come close to even implementing a measured and limited self defense that goes in directly the opposite direction of absolutely all your instincts after being attacked with a deadly weapon would be trained soldiers. To expect a normal person on the street who was just attacked with a deadly weapon and is now full of adrenaline and in a panic to give a measured non-lethal response is absolutely stupid.

So, let me get this straight: 1. Bradley robbed Grant's son at knife point 2. Grant then tracked down Bradley and confronted him 3. Bradley stabbed Grant 4. Grant fought back and killed Bradley.

If this is the case a murder conviction seems unlikely. Maybe the grand jury will drop it down to lesser charges. Grant confronting Bradley seems foolish, he should've called the cops, but I think that's a judgment call issue rather than a crime (maybe he might've committed some crimes while confronting Bradley, but I'm not sure. I'm not a lawyer). If it was in self-defense Grant didn't commit murder, though maybe it could be manslaughter by imperfect self-defense if Grant continued to attack Bradley once Bradley was no longer a threat.

@thegerg: Just give it up Greg...for some people, anything short of extreme (and often unnecessary) measures just won't do and you'll never be able to convince them otherwise =/

So he was carrying a knife he bought with the intention on using it to stab someone and then tracked down the robber and then killed him?

Yes it's murder.

@thegerg: Not to mention scary. You never know whether some of those people are your neighbors, co-workers or acquaintances and when they'll snap and decide to let loose like it's a Hollywood movie...

@thegerg: Agreed. Not to mention the stabbing didn't even occur while the father was trying to protect the son (which would be completely acceptable in my book...although only the self-defense part as you mentioned, not the "stab until I got it out of my system") so the police should have been called, instead of that dumb move of going after the robber with a knife.

The man in question wasn't the victim of any crime though. His son was.

He's an idiot for confronting the man. He knew where he was and had proof he was the thief. The least he could've done was call the cops and meet them to confront the man together.

That said the thief is definitely a piece of shit, and started the fight, but he didn't start the confrontation.

This was an angry old man upset that his son got jumped so he took matters into his own hands. Is that wrong? Not entirely but he should have figured the guy'd get violent when he confronted him, and to confront him alone was an incredibly stupid decision. What if it turned out the thief was a 250 pound body builder who championed in boxing?

Should've called the cops. Is he a murderer? Not exactly, but he is incredibly stupid.

@Aljosa23: not justifying the man. but i know of too many cases where people have gone to the police with information of the person who robbed them through "find my iphone or ipad" and the police did absolutely nada.

This man was probably angry that this crook invaded his home and threaten his family. I hope this guy gets off.

Burglars and other criminals need to watch out. People are fighting back against these thugs. People are fed up of the broken justice system and feel like the only option is taking matters into your own hands. How about the police and courts start doing their jobs so they don't see anymore cases like this.

I'm kinda reminded of that case a while back where an old man lured two teenage burglars into his house and then basically carried out an execution-style shooting.

Thankfully, the sick **** was convicted of murder.

@PannicAtack: And the worst part is that the guy probably felt like a hero and patted himself on the back for doing everyone a favor. I wonder how people's ideas of what's right gets so twisted...

He probs shouldn't have murdered the guy to avoid the murder charge

Wtf are you even going on about? Violent crime is on a 5 decade low, and the US houses more people in prison then communist China.. The justice system is indeed broken but not in the way your suggesting it is..