Need more help with something important

I think the other thread is not needed now that I have figured out which story I want to focus on, which is the rehab for the dead story I wrote about in the other thread. I really appreciate all the help you guys gave me on the other story and I have written it all down, but I think I want to focus on this idea for now. The other important thread was getting too long and it wasn't focused on what I wanted it to focus on. So here I will post an update of the story so far for those who didn't read the other thread, and overall i think gathering all the info here is better than having it spread across several pages don't you? Anyway here is the main story so far, feel free to comment and post ideas. I would love to see them:)

A young girl around 12 or so is in a public bathroom when she see's the bathroom door bang open and 2 boys enter, one older boy dragging a younger one to a stall. They start fighting in the stall and she hears the young boy scream, She tries to help, but gets there too late. The young boy is already badly injured and after her encounter with the older boy she manages to injure him but is also very badly injured too. After a while she slumps in a corner and her vision goes black. She wakes up in a snowy forest and no memory of anything except her own death. As she wanders through the forest she finds the 2 boys from the bathroom walking in a daze like her. They all start to explore the forest when they come across a bunch of kids outside a building. This is the rehab center for the dead, where people or in this case kids go after they die if they have done enough bad deeds in their life. Everyone loses their memory when they arrive, and the whole idea of this place is that each kid goes through various treatments like reinacting their own deaths to try and find alternatives to what they did. Eventually as the film goes on you find out more about the 3 main characters and why they ended up in the bathroom and why they all killed each other.

For those from the other important thread notice how it is 3 main characters now and not 4, I thought that 4 was a bit much. 3 is more of a good balence, also saves me writing too much. I want this story to be about characters who are not good people, but they are likeable and come from a sympathetic and tragic background. Their backstory and how it gets discovered at the rehab center ia vital to the story. Also some of you may remember the depressing ending I posted where the girl dies in the rehab place and wakes up in a coffin, one person said that making her a ghost would be creepy. I don't think that would work, I think I have put enough suffering on these characters and I think having there be some kind of ending that has a bit of hope should be important. However if you have an idea for an ending that is sadder then go ahead and post it. Anyway, the new ending is the young boy and girl run away from the rehab grounds and find a group of kids who did the same thing because they didn't want to remember their bad past. The 2 main kids are interested, but the boy gets scared and leaves while the girl stays to talk to the kids. The boy leaves because the only way he and her could live with the other kids is for them to die at the rehab place and he is too scared to do that. Later though he gets worried when the girl doesnt arrive back, eventually though she comes from the forest and he is glad to see her. When he calls her name she doesnt even remember him, and when he realizes what she did and why she has no memory he is at first shocked. He then asks her if she wants to go somewhere he thinks she would like. She says yes and follows him to the place where the kids with no memories live.

See I can do happy endings when I want to:D Go ahead and tell me what you think of this new story update.

I like it a lot, although I'd need a bit more info on the ins and outs of the story to really be able to give meaningful suggestions for how it should go.

One thought that came to mind, though, is maybe making the characters a little older than you're currently proposing. You describe the place as being somewhere that someone goes "if they have done enough bad deeds in their life". It'd seem a little strange for a 12-year-old girl to have already done tons of bad deeds in her life, although you might have something in mind that I'm unaware of. It seems like it'd be difficult to give someone who's only 12 an interesting backstory, too.

I like it a lot, although I'd need a bit more info on the ins and outs of the story to really be able to give meaningful suggestions for how it should go.GabuEx

Understandable, if it helps you should think of this story as a mixture between that film Wristcutters, with the childhood relationship of Let the right one in. It is pretty much a film about death and how kids deal with it at a time when they just want to have fun and live life. I know that sounds a bit vague, but I am hoping this will turn into something. I just need to develop the backstory of the 3 main characters and how and why they decided to do what they did that lead to their deaths at the start of the film. I think a backstory that is sympathetic and tragic, but something that doesn't make any of the main characters except maybe the young boy seem totally good or innocent.

Understandable, if it helps you should think of this story as a mixture between that film Wristcutters, with the childhood relationship of Let the right one in. It is pretty much a film about death and how kids deal with it at a time when they just want to have fun and live life. I know that sounds a bit vague, but I am hoping this will turn into something. I just need to develop the backstory of the 3 main characters and how and why they decided to do what they did that lead to their deaths at the start of the film. I think a backstory that is sympathetic and tragic, but something that doesn't make any of the main characters except maybe the young boy seem totally good or innocent.

Film-Guy

I haven't seen either films, unfortunately, so that unfortunately doesn't clear much up. :P

I made an edit with a few preliminary thoughts, though, which I unfortunately did not do in time for you to see it.

I like it a lot, although I'd need a bit more info on the ins and outs of the story to really be able to give meaningful suggestions for how it should go.

One thought that came to mind, though, is maybe making the characters a little older than you're currently proposing. You describe the place as being somewhere that someone goes "if they have done enough bad deeds in their life". It'd seem a little strange for a 12-year-old girl to have already done tons of bad deeds in her life, although you might have something in mind that I'm unaware of. It seems like it'd be difficult to give someone who's only 12 an interesting backstory, too.

GabuEx

Making them a bit older is a good idea, but I think that it is not exactly a bunch of bad deeds she did or he did. It is more about the one worst deed which lead to their deaths. You are right about the backstory issue though, might be a bit tough to write a really interesting backstory for a 12 year old. What age do you think could work better?

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]

Understandable, if it helps you should think of this story as a mixture between that film Wristcutters, with the childhood relationship of Let the right one in. It is pretty much a film about death and how kids deal with it at a time when they just want to have fun and live life. I know that sounds a bit vague, but I am hoping this will turn into something. I just need to develop the backstory of the 3 main characters and how and why they decided to do what they did that lead to their deaths at the start of the film. I think a backstory that is sympathetic and tragic, but something that doesn't make any of the main characters except maybe the young boy seem totally good or innocent.

GabuEx

I haven't seen either films, unfortunately, so that unfortunately doesn't clear much up. :P

I made an edit with a few preliminary thoughts, though, which I unfortunately did not do in time for you to see it.

I recommend both of them, Wristcutters is like a more depressing Garden State, but with Will Arnett instead of Zack Braff.

Making them a bit older is a good idea, but I think that it is not exactly a bunch of bad deeds she did or he did. It is more about the one worst deed which lead to their deaths. You are right about the backstory issue though, might be a bit tough to write a really interesting backstory for a 12 year old. What age do you think could work better?

Film-Guy

I dunno, I'm thinking maybe something like 16 or 17. Maybe even a little older - the main thing is that I have found it very difficult to make children interesting characters in a story, as it's usually extremely difficult to give them depth without making them seem like they should be older. Although, the same could be said about the characters Romeo and Juliet, and nobody seems to care there - the extent to which a reader will forgive technical stuff in your story is directly proportional to how good the story is. ;) For that reason, I suppose you might not need to be too concerned when it comes to minor points of plausibility.

One other thought that I had is maybe you could actually start the story in the forest instead of showing her death to the reader as the start of the story. And then slowly piece together exactly what happened as the story progresses. My favorite kind of story is that where the reader is forbidden from knowing anything that the main character doesn't know - that tends to make the story have much more interest, as you really get involved with the main character as the full picture finally starts to come into focus for them.

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]

Making them a bit older is a good idea, but I think that it is not exactly a bunch of bad deeds she did or he did. It is more about the one worst deed which lead to their deaths. You are right about the backstory issue though, might be a bit tough to write a really interesting backstory for a 12 year old. What age do you think could work better?

GabuEx

I dunno, I'm thinking maybe something like 16 or 17. Maybe even a little older - the main thing is that I have found it very difficult to make children interesting characters in a story, as it's usually extremely difficult to give them depth without making them seem like they should be older. Although, the same could be said about the characters Romeo and Juliet, and nobody seems to care there - the extent to which a reader will forgive technical stuff in your story is directly proportional to how good the story is. ;) For that reason, I suppose you might not need to be too concerned when it comes to minor points of plausibility.

One other thought that I had is maybe you could actually start the story in the forest instead of showing her death to the reader as the start of the story. And then slowly piece together exactly what happened as the story progresses. My favorite kind of story is that where the reader is forbidden from knowing anything that the main character doesn't know - that tends to make the story have much more interest, as you really get involved with the main character as the full picture finally starts to come into focus for them.

I like your idea of having her wake up in the forest first and not know anything. That way the story is more about the backstory, which also means I have to make it more interesting. The mystery behind it might work in favor for me though I can see people being confused by what is going on at first. I also dont really know how I would explain that she is dead at the start of the film, showing or implying her death in the bathroom made it more apparent. The reason I chose childern for the story though is the innosense that alot of them have when it comes to the world and how they view life. That way the story has an interesting, almost naive view of the rehab place and life since it is from the kid's perspective. I can see what you are saying though, making kids interesting is tough. 28 weeks later tried to and failed miserably while films like Pan's labyrinth and Leon the professional do much better.

I was thinking of actually combining the first and second story from the other important thread, remember the one about the kid who is bored with how dull his life is so he retreats into an almost fantasy world but later he meets the homeless girl who he has a relationship with? Even though I was thinking of taking out the fantasy part, I think that making that story I posted about earlier the backstory for this story could be good. Then again that might be trying to cram too much into one film, I may want to save that other idea for later rather than merge the 2 stories together.Film-Guy

What would the combined story look like? I'm not sure if I follow.

I like your idea of having her wake up in the forest first and not know anything. That way the story is more about the backstory, which also means I have to make it more interesting. The mystery behind it might work in favor for me though I can see people being confused by what is going on at first. I also dont really know how I would explain that she is dead at the start of the film, showing or implying her death in the bathroom made it more apparent. The reason I chose childern for the story though is the innosense that alot of them have when it comes to the world and how they view life. That way the story has an interesting, almost naive view of the rehab place and life since it is from the kid's perspective. I can see what you are saying though, making kids interesting is tough. 28 weeks later tried to and failed miserably while films like Pan's labyrinth and Leon the professional do much better.

Film-Guy

Well, I think that could be fine, then... I'm not sure how exactly you wanted the rehab center place to work, so if it'd be hard to tell the reader that she's dead without saying so at the start, that'd be fine - I just think it'd be much more impactful if she's all confused about where she is, and then all of a sudden she has a "holy crap" moment where she realizes she's dead. I think that could be a very powerful scene.

And yes, I'm certainly not saying that making an interesting child character is impossible - just way more difficult, as your average kid doesn't have nearly the scars in life that make for a fleshed out character that your average adult tends to have. If you think you can make it work, by all means.

maybe have an emotional scene where the main characters find out that they are dead.

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]I was thinking of actually combining the first and second story from the other important thread, remember the one about the kid who is bored with how dull his life is so he retreats into an almost fantasy world but later he meets the homeless girl who he has a relationship with? Even though I was thinking of taking out the fantasy part, I think that making that story I posted about earlier the backstory for this story could be good. Then again that might be trying to cram too much into one film, I may want to save that other idea for later rather than merge the 2 stories together.GabuEx

What would the combined story look like? I'm not sure if I follow.

To be honest I am not totally sure. It was just a thought, doubt it would work. I think I need to keep the ideas seperate.

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]

I like your idea of having her wake up in the forest first and not know anything. That way the story is more about the backstory, which also means I have to make it more interesting. The mystery behind it might work in favor for me though I can see people being confused by what is going on at first. I also dont really know how I would explain that she is dead at the start of the film, showing or implying her death in the bathroom made it more apparent. The reason I chose childern for the story though is the innosense that alot of them have when it comes to the world and how they view life. That way the story has an interesting, almost naive view of the rehab place and life since it is from the kid's perspective. I can see what you are saying though, making kids interesting is tough. 28 weeks later tried to and failed miserably while films like Pan's labyrinth and Leon the professional do much better.

GabuEx

Well, I think that could be fine, then... I'm not sure how exactly you wanted the rehab center place to work, so if it'd be hard to tell the reader that she's dead without saying so at the start, that'd be fine - I just think it'd be much more impactful if she's all confused about where she is, and then all of a sudden she has a "holy crap" moment where she realizes she's dead. I think that could be a very powerful scene.

And yes, I'm certainly not saying that making an interesting child character is impossible - just way more difficult, as your average kid doesn't have nearly the scars in life that make for a fleshed out character that your average adult tends to have. If you think you can make it work, by all means.

I agree that a scene where the characters find out they are dead could be great, I just dont know how it could be done without spelling it out. I was thinking that they might find out at the rehab center, and then maybe they see how they die and the backstory part starts there. I don't think what happened to the kids is really scars in the way I think you mean, with adults they carry alot of emotional baggage. I think that maybe having something seemingly innocent happen where as a joke the older boy see's that the young boy is friendly with the girl and maybe he plays a prank on one of them or both of them. Something childish that gets out of hand, and the story later would not so much be about their emotional scars, but how they manage to find friendship even when all this messed up stuff is happeneing to them. Using their child nature and how naive they are in terms of what they know about the world could work very well. Maybe one of the rehab center treatments is a gathering where all the kids and the rehab workers discuss death and such, which with adults would be deep and involving, but here I could use the kids and how naive they are to make the scene more funny in a dark way, but also sad too. That could be the scene where they find out that they are dead and they can never see their friends again. Could be really emotional if done well.

I agree that a scene where the characters find out they are dead could be great, I just dont know how it could be done without spelling it out. I was thinking that they might find out at the rehab center, and then maybe they see how they die and the backstory part starts there. I don't think what happened to the kids is really scars in the way I think you mean, with adults they carry alot of emotional baggage.

Film-Guy

Yeah, emotional baggage is what I meant.

I think that maybe having something seemingly innocent happen where as a joke the older boy see's that the young boy is friendly with the girl and maybe he plays a prank on one of them or both of them. Something childish that gets out of hand, and the story later would not so much be about their emotional scars, but how they manage to find friendship even when all this messed up stuff is happeneing to them. Using their child nature and how naive they are in terms of what they know about the world could work very well. Maybe one of the rehab center treatments is a gathering where all the kids and the rehab workers discuss death and such, which with adults would be deep and involving, but here I could use the kids and how naive they are to make the scene more funny in a dark way, but also sad too. That could be the scene where they find out that they are dead and they can never see their friends again. Could be really emotional if done well.

Film-Guy

I think that sounds great. :)

You should keep me notified if you happen to do anything with this... it sounds like a really neat story that I'd love to see fleshed out.

Oh dude I just remembered that I forgot to reply to your PM a while back. Sorry about that :cry: Anyway yeah I'm liking this. Are you postponing the novel then?freek666

The novel unfortunatly is going to be postponed for a while. I will still keep all I have written and the ideas, but for now I want to focus on this movie. What do you think though about the idea of the the idea of doing a few scenes that show the kids reinacting their deaths so they can see what they could have done to prevent them? All the rehab activities that are usually for adults like the discussion circle and such have death as an overall theme, and most kids don't take it seriously. Could be funny and sad to show a few scenes of the kids realizing that they are dead and will never see their friends and family ever again. The backstory issue is probably eh biggest problem though, the rehab activities isn't a big problem since I can take the activities from films like one flew over the cuckoos nest or A girl interuptted or something and mix those with the theme of death in a dark comedy with alot of tragic drama mixed in.

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]

I agree that a scene where the characters find out they are dead could be great, I just dont know how it could be done without spelling it out. I was thinking that they might find out at the rehab center, and then maybe they see how they die and the backstory part starts there. I don't think what happened to the kids is really scars in the way I think you mean, with adults they carry alot of emotional baggage.

GabuEx

Yeah, emotional baggage is what I meant.

I think that maybe having something seemingly innocent happen where as a joke the older boy see's that the young boy is friendly with the girl and maybe he plays a prank on one of them or both of them. Something childish that gets out of hand, and the story later would not so much be about their emotional scars, but how they manage to find friendship even when all this messed up stuff is happeneing to them. Using their child nature and how naive they are in terms of what they know about the world could work very well. Maybe one of the rehab center treatments is a gathering where all the kids and the rehab workers discuss death and such, which with adults would be deep and involving, but here I could use the kids and how naive they are to make the scene more funny in a dark way, but also sad too. That could be the scene where they find out that they are dead and they can never see their friends again. Could be really emotional if done well.

Film-Guy

I think that sounds great. :)

You should keep me notified if you happen to do anything with this... it sounds like a really neat story that I'd love to see fleshed out.

Glad you like it. This idea at first was just the rehab for the dead concept and most thought it was too ambitious. Which to be fair it was. Now that I have actually added more of a story to it I think it has tons of potential. I dont want to sound cheesy, but there are few feelings for me as great as getting good feedback from my stories, I feel that if I don't do something with these ideas I would oh I dunno go insane or something. If I make this idea a reality I will be sure to update you guys on it:P

More good news though, I have finally thought of a backstory for the characters:D I would love to know your opinions on it. Anyway this is the basic story, the young girl's backstory is that she comes from parents who don't really care about her. They don't give her anything , help her, or even speak to her. She is so lonely in the house by herself most of the time that she decides to run away with some money to live off for a while. She lives in a park and eventually meets the young boy who she recognizes from school. He feels sorry for her so he stays with her for a while and keeps her company.

The older boy, who shouldn't be that much older I think, see's them hanging out and gets jealous. He knows them both from school and had a crush on her for a while and seeing them together really pisses him off. He starts to pretend to like the boy and hang out with him so he can keep her away from the girl. Later on when she runs low on money he offers to give her alot of money if she can take the boy to a nearby bathroom and ask him something important. Shes agree's and when she is with the boy she takes him near the bathroom and at first she can't think of anything to ask him, then she decides to ask him why he is hanging out with her. He tells her it is because he likes her. She is a bit surprised at first, then gets cold feet and leads him away from the bathroom where inside the older boy is slumped on the ground looking close to tears. This leads to the bathroom scene where they all die, she is washing her face and this is when the older boy drags the younger one in and tries to attack him.

That is what I have so far, I want to add some more conflict that makes the characters more interesting but this is what I have so far.

Glad you like it. This idea at first was just the rehab for the dead concept and most thought it was too ambitious. Which to be fair it was. Now that I have actually added more of a story to it I think it has tons of potential. I dont want to sound cheesy, but there are few feelings for me as great as getting good feedback from my stories, I feel that if I don't do something with these ideas I would oh I dunno go insane or something. If I make this idea a reality I will be sure to update you guys on it:P

Film-Guy

Oh, I totally know what you mean about getting good feedback.

More good news though, I have finally thought of a backstory for the characters:D I would love to know your opinions on it. Anyway this is the basic story, the young girl's backstory is that she comes from parents who don't really care about her. They don't give her anything , help her, or even speak to her. She is so lonely in the house by herself most of the time that she decides to run away with some money to live off for a while. She lives in a park and eventually meets the young boy who she recognizes from school. He feels sorry for her so he stays with her for a while and keeps her company.

Film-Guy

Hmm, it's a good start, but to be honest if that's the full extent of what the viewer sees that kinda seems like a gag-me-with-a-spoon sob story that could have a tendency to come across as emotionally manipulative and one-sided. To have parents who don't even speak to their kid seems... well, a little extreme. What I think might be better is to make it somewhat half-and-half - the parents are incompetent, but not evil, and the kid doesn't have that good a life, but blew things out of proportion nonetheless. I think it would make for a much more sympathetic backstory if the kid was at least somewhat at fault rather than a perfect angelic victim.

The older boy, who shouldn't be that much older I think, see's them hanging out and gets jealous. He knows them both from school and had a crush on her for a while and seeing them together really pisses him off. He starts to pretend to like the boy and hang out with him so he can keep her away from the girl. Later on when she runs low on money he offers to give her alot of money if she can take the boy to a nearby bathroom and ask him something important. Shes agree's and when she is with the boy she takes him near the bathroom and at first she can't think of anything to ask him, then she decides to ask him why he is hanging out with her. He tells her it is because he likes her. She is a bit surprised at first, then gets cold feet and leads him away from the bathroom where inside the older boy is slumped on the ground looking close to tears. This leads to the bathroom scene where they all die, she is washing her face and this is when the older boy drags the younger one in and tries to attack him.

Film-Guy

Seems a little extreme for the older boy to murder the younger one basically just because the younger one is hanging out with a girl he likes, don't you think? It seems as though there should be more for the older boy to hate the younger one about.

More good news though, I have finally thought of a backstory for the characters:D I would love to know your opinions on it. Anyway this is the basic story, the young girl's backstory is that she comes from parents who don't really care about her. They don't give her anything , help her, or even speak to her. She is so lonely in the house by herself most of the time that she decides to run away with some money to live off for a while. She lives in a park and eventually meets the young boy who she recognizes from school. He feels sorry for her so he stays with her for a while and keeps her company.Film-Guy

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]

Glad you like it. This idea at first was just the rehab for the dead concept and most thought it was too ambitious. Which to be fair it was. Now that I have actually added more of a story to it I think it has tons of potential. I dont want to sound cheesy, but there are few feelings for me as great as getting good feedback from my stories, I feel that if I don't do something with these ideas I would oh I dunno go insane or something. If I make this idea a reality I will be sure to update you guys on it:P

GabuEx

Oh, I totally know what you mean about getting good feedback.

More good news though, I have finally thought of a backstory for the characters:D I would love to know your opinions on it. Anyway this is the basic story, the young girl's backstory is that she comes from parents who don't really care about her. They don't give her anything , help her, or even speak to her. She is so lonely in the house by herself most of the time that she decides to run away with some money to live off for a while. She lives in a park and eventually meets the young boy who she recognizes from school. He feels sorry for her so he stays with her for a while and keeps her company.

Film-Guy

Hmm, it's a good start, but to be honest if that's the full extent of what the viewer sees that kinda seems like a gag-me-with-a-spoon sob story that could have a tendency to come across as emotionally manipulative and one-sided. To have parents who don't even speak to their kid seems... well, a little extreme. What I think might be better is to make it somewhat half-and-half - the parents are incompetent, but not evil, and the kid doesn't have that good a life, but blew things out of proportion nonetheless. I think it would make for a much more sympathetic backstory if the kid was at least somewhat at fault rather than a perfect angelic victim.

The older boy, who shouldn't be that much older I think, see's them hanging out and gets jealous. He knows them both from school and had a crush on her for a while and seeing them together really pisses him off. He starts to pretend to like the boy and hang out with him so he can keep her away from the girl. Later on when she runs low on money he offers to give her alot of money if she can take the boy to a nearby bathroom and ask him something important. Shes agree's and when she is with the boy she takes him near the bathroom and at first she can't think of anything to ask him, then she decides to ask him why he is hanging out with her. He tells her it is because he likes her. She is a bit surprised at first, then gets cold feet and leads him away from the bathroom where inside the older boy is slumped on the ground looking close to tears. This leads to the bathroom scene where they all die, she is washing her face and this is when the older boy drags the younger one in and tries to attack him.

Film-Guy

Seems a little extreme for the older boy to murder the younger one basically just because the younger one is hanging out with a girl he likes, don't you think? It seems as though there should be more for the older boy to hate the younger one about.

I agree with pretty much everything, I can totally see how this backstory could be too one sided. I think the ideal backstory would be one that sets up the characters in a more negative or grey way rather than all mushy and sentamental. Looking at the backstory I wrote is sounds too black and white. Having the 3 main characters have a more conflicted and non mushy relationship in life would be a good contrast to their relationship in death that tries to redeem that friendship that they lost or never really had.

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]More good news though, I have finally thought of a backstory for the characters:D I would love to know your opinions on it. Anyway this is the basic story, the young girl's backstory is that she comes from parents who don't really care about her. They don't give her anything , help her, or even speak to her. She is so lonely in the house by herself most of the time that she decides to run away with some money to live off for a while. She lives in a park and eventually meets the young boy who she recognizes from school. He feels sorry for her so he stays with her for a while and keeps her company.ayanami_rei

Does seem that way, should have thought more about this backstory before I typed it.

The beginning reminds me of Silent Hill a bit too much. :? Also, I would have liked the ending of her waking up in a coffin, like have it where her eyes snap open and that be the end or something. *Shrugs.* o_O And why exactly does the older boy take the younger one into a stall to beat him up? :? Sounds too much like he's forcing himself on to him.ayanami_rei

The reason the older boy beats up the young way is what I am trying to explain in the backstory. I like the coffin ending, but it seems too much like a horror film or thriller ending for this type of story.

[QUOTE="ayanami_rei"]The beginning reminds me of Silent Hill a bit too much. :? Also, I would have liked the ending of her waking up in a coffin, like have it where her eyes snap open and that be the end or something. *Shrugs.* o_O And why exactly does the older boy take the younger one into a stall to beat him up? :? Sounds too much like he's forcing himself on to him.Film-Guy

The reason the older boy beats up the young way is what I am trying to explain in the backstory. I like the coffin ending, but it seems too much like a horror film or thriller ending for this type of story.

I like the coffin ending, but it seems too much like a horror film or thriller ending for this type of story.

Film-Guy

I have to say that I don't really like the coffin ending at all, but then again I'm a sap and I can't stand endings that are just totally bleak and depressing with no redeeming quality whatsoever. They make me feel like I wasted my time, but many other people love those kinds of endings for some reason I can't understand. :P So, your choice, really.

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]

[QUOTE="ayanami_rei"]The beginning reminds me of Silent Hill a bit too much. :? Also, I would have liked the ending of her waking up in a coffin, like have it where her eyes snap open and that be the end or something. *Shrugs.* o_O And why exactly does the older boy take the younger one into a stall to beat him up? :? Sounds too much like he's forcing himself on to him.ayanami_rei

The reason the older boy beats up the young way is what I am trying to explain in the backstory. I like the coffin ending, but it seems too much like a horror film or thriller ending for this type of story.

I can see how it would work, but it almost seems cruel to have the story end that way as apposed to the other ending which is happier but still tragic. I don''t want to coffin ending to seem too random and sad. Heck and this is coming from a guy who is considering putting a rape scene in one of my stories. The story is dark, but what makes it interesting to me is how these kids deal with it in their own more naive way. I don't know, its a tough choice.

Sounds great. When I first heard about this in your other thread I wasn't really feelin it, but now I'd totally go see it. I really hope you can get it made. ;)KLAX42

Thanks, I admit that I barely had a story in that other thread. I was still doing tons of work and hopefully it will pay off:P

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]

I like the coffin ending, but it seems too much like a horror film or thriller ending for this type of story.

GabuEx

I have to say that I don't really like the coffin ending at all, but then again I'm a sap and I can't stand endings that are just totally bleak and depressing with no redeeming quality whatsoever. They make me feel like I wasted my time, but many other people love those kinds of endings for some reason I can't understand. :P So, your choice, really.

A dark or sad ending only works when it fits the theme of the film well. For example The Descent only works well with the sad ending, same with One Flew over the cuckoo's nest. It all depends on the story and theme of it, if I throw in a sad ending out of nowhere like the coffin ending it would be ironic in the context of the film but it could be seen as almost tasteless.

So who is directing?X360PS3AMD05

Me of course silly:P

if you do get this movie made you know you got to come and tell us first so we can know about it first right? I mean if your going to be a big director then we shoud at least realise it was our Film_Guy

anyways I like this idea for the story very creepy and it kinda reminds me of that Robin Williams movie I saw where he died and along with his kids and then after that the story really started. However you are kind of implying there is no heaven but there is an afterlife and this is the version of Hell you have come up with. perhaps it would be a little comforting to the viewer to not subtly imply in the movie that there is a heaven but really state that there is. I'm thinking a crashing down statement of why these kids dont get to go there.

Unless your plan is for them to end up there but it seems that they go to some other place from what you said

if you do get this movie made you know you got to come and tell us first so we can know about it first right? I mean if your going to be a big director then we shoud at least realise it was our Film_Guy

anyways I like this idea for the story very creepy and it kinda reminds me of that Robin Williams movie I saw where he died and along with his kids and then after that the story really started. However you are kind of implying there is no heaven but there is an afterlife and this is the version of Hell you have come up with. perhaps it would be a little comforting to the viewer to not subtly imply in the movie that there is a heaven but really state that there is. I'm thinking a crashing down statement of why these kids dont get to go there.

Unless your plan is for them to end up there but it seems that they go to some other place from what you said

Serraph105

I will make sure that you guys know if any of my films do well, though if I ever do make it big you might not believe me later on:P I don't think this place is really a heaven or hell, it is more like a purgatory if anything. There is a part actually when the main girl character dies at the rehab place and thinks she will wake up alive, this is part of the ending actually, but it turns out she wakes up in a coffin and is trapped. She dies because she wants to forget her memories so she and the young boy can live with the other children who chose to not remember their pasts. She realizes that for most kids who die and do a bad deed the rehab center is a sort of endless cycle, if they die there they will probably wake up in a coffin or something and just die again and end up in the same place. A bit depressing, but it is made a bit less sad when the boy is at first shocked that the girl chose to die so she can forget what she did, then the film would end with them running into the forest to live with the other kids who chose to forget their pasts. I dont want this story to be religous, it is in a way a view of life and death from a childs point of view.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

if you do get this movie made you know you got to come and tell us first so we can know about it first right? I mean if your going to be a big director then we shoud at least realise it was our Film_Guy

anyways I like this idea for the story very creepy and it kinda reminds me of that Robin Williams movie I saw where he died and along with his kids and then after that the story really started. However you are kind of implying there is no heaven but there is an afterlife and this is the version of Hell you have come up with. perhaps it would be a little comforting to the viewer to not subtly imply in the movie that there is a heaven but really state that there is. I'm thinking a crashing down statement of why these kids dont get to go there.

Unless your plan is for them to end up there but it seems that they go to some other place from what you said

Film-Guy

I will make sure that you guys know if any of my films do well, though if I ever do make it big you might not believe me later on:P I don't think this place is really a heaven or hell, it is more like a purgatory if anything. There is a part actually when the main girl character dies at the rehab place and thinks she will wake up alive, this is part of the ending actually, but it turns out she wakes up in a coffin and is trapped. She dies because she wants to forget her memories so she and the young boy can live with the other children who chose to not remember their pasts. She realizes that for most kids who die and do a bad deed the rehab center is a sort of endless cycle, if they die there they will probably wake up in a coffin or something and just die again and end up in the same place. A bit depressing, but it is made a bit less sad when the boy is at first shocked that the girl chose to die so she can forget what she did, then the film would end with them running into the forest to live with the other kids who chose to forget their pasts. I dont want this story to be religous, it is in a way a view of life and death from a childs point of view.

It doesnt have to be religious but you dont want your viewer (and there are a lot of religious people out there) to be so chilled that they dont end up enjoying the movie. I dont spend a lot of time thinking about this though and Im sure you do so you probably know better than I do. I like how she has to make a tough choice so she can be happy at the end. I would say that is a very good idea because everybody seems to like it when a person overcomes so serious (or heck even not so serious) adversity.

Since it is about three characters make sure the charcter development is strong and emotional and the viewer cares about each character before the end and I would say you will have an extreamly winning movie on your hands. Don't do like Harry Potter and cut out the interactions and growth (if its even possible to have growth) just to get in all the exciting moments either make sure you do it right.

I also forgot to mention something, I am also filming my first short movie while I write this movie:D the short movie is being made with a bunch of friends of mine and it is basically about 2 scam artist friends who start a phone psychic service. Problem is, some of their predictions start to actually happen. This is very low budget and it is primarily a comedy, but there will be some drama as well. It will be done before May of this year:DFilm-Guy

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="Serraph105"]

if you do get this movie made you know you got to come and tell us first so we can know about it first right? I mean if your going to be a big director then we shoud at least realise it was our Film_Guy

anyways I like this idea for the story very creepy and it kinda reminds me of that Robin Williams movie I saw where he died and along with his kids and then after that the story really started. However you are kind of implying there is no heaven but there is an afterlife and this is the version of Hell you have come up with. perhaps it would be a little comforting to the viewer to not subtly imply in the movie that there is a heaven but really state that there is. I'm thinking a crashing down statement of why these kids dont get to go there.

Unless your plan is for them to end up there but it seems that they go to some other place from what you said

Serraph105

I will make sure that you guys know if any of my films do well, though if I ever do make it big you might not believe me later on:P I don't think this place is really a heaven or hell, it is more like a purgatory if anything. There is a part actually when the main girl character dies at the rehab place and thinks she will wake up alive, this is part of the ending actually, but it turns out she wakes up in a coffin and is trapped. She dies because she wants to forget her memories so she and the young boy can live with the other children who chose to not remember their pasts. She realizes that for most kids who die and do a bad deed the rehab center is a sort of endless cycle, if they die there they will probably wake up in a coffin or something and just die again and end up in the same place. A bit depressing, but it is made a bit less sad when the boy is at first shocked that the girl chose to die so she can forget what she did, then the film would end with them running into the forest to live with the other kids who chose to forget their pasts. I dont want this story to be religous, it is in a way a view of life and death from a childs point of view.

It doesnt have to be religious but you dont want your viewer (and there are a lot of religious people out there) to be so chilled that they dont end up enjoying the movie. I dont spend a lot of time thinking about this though and Im sure you do so you probably know better than I do. I like how she has to make a tough choice so she can be happy at the end. I would say that is a very good idea because everybody seems to like it when a person overcomes so serious (or heck even not so serious) adversity.

Since it is about three characters make sure the charcter development is strong and emotional and the viewer cares about each character before the end and I would say you will have an extreamly winning movie on your hands. Don't do like Harry Potter and cut out the interactions and growth (if its even possible to have growth) just to get in all the exciting moments either make sure you do it right.

That is one of the reasons I want to avoid a depressing ending like the coffin one, though the ending I mentioned does use the coffin. I think that putting a viewer through a film where kids are hurt in emotional and physical ways would make them want to see something happy. Sorta like the ending of Let the right one in, if that film had a sad ending it would not be as good. The ending I thought up for this film is happy yet sad at the same time, I think a good way to describe it is bittersweet. What do you think of the endings I mentioned? The characters interactions are crucial to the film though, the young boy and girl are a big part but the other older boy is just as important. He has to be both threatening and vulnerable at the same time. He isnt that much older than them, but he still has the need to have some kinda of power of them. I think an important scene in the film would be showing him as a kid like them who wants acceptance and friendship like everyone does. That is why the backstory is so vital, it sets up why the characters did what they did and it makes them likeable yet they are still not exactly good kids. That is the only part that is really troubling me, there is a fine line between a story between kids that is sweet and touching like let the right one in, and my idea I posted earlier which just sounded like a bad made for TV drama.

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]I also forgot to mention something, I am also filming my first short movie while I write this movie:D the short movie is being made with a bunch of friends of mine and it is basically about 2 scam artist friends who start a phone psychic service. Problem is, some of their predictions start to actually happen. This is very low budget and it is primarily a comedy, but there will be some drama as well. It will be done before May of this year:DSerraph105

I am working on casting right now and am getting the script done. It probably wont be longer than 20 or 30 minutes or so at max, then I will se if I can take the film to a student film festival or something if it turns out well. There is also a plot point where a man tries to stop the main characters from doing more predictions because he works for an agency that sets up psychic hoaxs for magicians and psychics around the world, they of course dont and instead they try to stage a big event that looks like they predicted it. This of course goes bad and that is when the drama starts to happen. I may even make a cameo in it, but I will be doing all the writing, directing and probably most of the other non acting stuff too. Should be fun hopefully, I will post updates on how it goes on my blog:D

That is one of the reasons I want to avoid a depressing ending like the coffin one, though the ending I mentioned does use the coffin. I think that putting a viewer through a film where kids are hurt in emotional and physical ways would make them want to see something happy. Sorta like the ending of Let the right one in, if that film had a sad ending it would not be as good. The ending I thought up for this film is happy yet sad at the same time, I think a good way to describe it is bittersweet. What do you think of the endings I mentioned? The characters interactions are crucial to the film though, the young boy and girl are a big part but the other older boy is just as important. He has to be both threatening and vulnerable at the same time. He isnt that much older than them, but he still has the need to have some kinda of power of them. I think an important scene in the film would be showing him as a kid like them who wants acceptance and friendship like everyone does. That is why the backstory is so vital, it sets up why the characters did what they did and it makes them likeable yet they are still not exactly good kids. That is the only part that is really troubling me, there is a fine line between a story between kids that is sweet and touching like let the right one in, and my idea I posted earlier which just sounded like a bad made for TV drama.

I love the idea that you feel for the kids through their backstory even though they are not good kids kinda like in Naruto (pardon the comparison if you dont like that show) where you meet these really evil people and then they spend like two or so episodes explaining as to why they are like that and its really quite tragic and by the end you feel for them.

as for your other endings I didnt stick around the thread long enough to here them sorry about that.

btw how do you picture this film's color schemes I picture this film as very gray not black and white but more like Sweeny Todd kinda gothic. do you have a different take on it or am I on track?

[QUOTE="Film-Guy

That is one of the reasons I want to avoid a depressing ending like the coffin one, though the ending I mentioned does use the coffin. I think that putting a viewer through a film where kids are hurt in emotional and physical ways would make them want to see something happy. Sorta like the ending of Let the right one in, if that film had a sad ending it would not be as good. The ending I thought up for this film is happy yet sad at the same time, I think a good way to describe it is bittersweet. What do you think of the endings I mentioned? The characters interactions are crucial to the film though, the young boy and girl are a big part but the other older boy is just as important. He has to be both threatening and vulnerable at the same time. He isnt that much older than them, but he still has the need to have some kinda of power of them. I think an important scene in the film would be showing him as a kid like them who wants acceptance and friendship like everyone does. That is why the backstory is so vital, it sets up why the characters did what they did and it makes them likeable yet they are still not exactly good kids. That is the only part that is really troubling me, there is a fine line between a story between kids that is sweet and touching like let the right one in, and my idea I posted earlier which just sounded like a bad made for TV drama.

Serraph105

I love the idea that you feel for the kids through their backstory even though they are not good kids kinda like in Naruto (pardon the comparison if you dont like that show) where you meet these really evil people and then they spend like two or so episodes explaining as to why they are like that and its really quite tragic and by the end you feel for them.

as for your other endings I didnt stick around the thread long enough to here them sorry about that.

btw how do you picture this film's color schemes I picture this film as very gray not black and white but more like Sweeny Todd kinda gothic. do you have a different take on it or am I on track?

Color wise I think the snowy forest scenes at the rehab place would look very stark yet beautiful. If you have seen pictures of the Swedish Lapland then you will know what I mean. I was thinking though of doing the backstory in color but have the rehab scenes in black and white or the other way around. Heck black and white might make the whole film look good in a unique and interesting way. The backstory of the kids is a way to find out why and what they did that lead to their deaths and their relationships with each other is very important and maybe black and white would compliment that. I still don't know what I am going to do with the backstory, that part is essential but so far nothing has come to me backstory wise. All I know is that I want the backstory to show these kids as being generally nice kids who make a few dumb decisions like kids will do so you feel for them but you also understand that they are not exactly good kids either. The scenes at the rehab place are important because they set up their relationship for the rest of the film. The older boy for example is going to be very interesting to write.

This movie idea is what I want to call my pitching idea. If my short movies do well and I ever raise the funds to make a feature, this is probably my first choice for a feature. Also if the short films go really well and I get a call from a studio or something else that will most likely never happen I will mention this. The short film I am doing now though is going really well, I will try and post clips of it on youtube for you guys to see once I get some scenes done. After I do this short film though my next project is a horror comedy about a man who is so obsessed by horror films and their icons like freddie and jason that he tries to become one in real life. Things go bad though when he discovers a group that does that same thing except they re create and create horror scenes in real life by kidnapping people off the street.

I got inspired to do this after that film Behind the mask: The rise of Leslie vernon came out. Unfortunatly though I had the idea a year or so before that film came out, though the ideas and their execution are very different. I have an idea for a part in the film where the main guy starts to drift away from horror films and he rents a romantic comedy or something and is hunted as a traitor by the group. I love horror films so if the first short film goes well then maybe this one will too. Back on the film idea of this topic though, if I raise the money to do this I would love to film in Sweden. I have an odd facination with that country for some reason I cant explain. I already have a name for my production company though, Innersloth:D You may have seen a user here once with that name, well that was probably me a while ago. I have had that term in my head for years now.

Sweden pwns :PX360PS3AMD05

Ever since I went there a few years ago I have wanted to go back. Hopefully if things go well with these short movies I can make this movie idea into a feature once I work out the backstory and other elements more. The Laplands would be perfect to shoot a film like this. If I do end up doing well I wont forget that you guys helped me out. Though if I get famous you may not believe me when I say that I am a director of a famous film:P I am going to England in May though, and Europe has some great film festivals where I can screen this film to get some recognition. if I can get this first short movie done and this movie idea in this thread turned into a good screenplay I will be set by May:P

Sounds like a cool idea, it's definately original. I like the "not good people, but they are likeable" plot, but it'll be difficult to work with.blackngold29

Writing flawed characters shouldn''t be too tough, writing flawed kid characters though is a different story. I don't like it when a film is too black and white with its characters. I like writing characters that are like the characters in that book series A Song of ice and fire. Nobody in really good or bad but just different shades of grey.