My simplest reason to believe in an afterlife.

Been a while since we had a decent topic about religion. Yer neckbearded brains might rust so here I go to keep'em fresh.


First thing first, everything that's gonna be discussed here is a 'supernatural' thing. Which is something we humans may or may never get to know. So it's all gonna be a 'probability' matter.

First scenario; there is NO afterlife:


Right we get down to business right off the bat. I spent my life believing that there'll be a heaven and hell after this life and I'll be judged according to my actions. If I'd done good, I'll go to heaven and if I do bad, I'll get a free ticket to hell. I die. Missing on all most of the fun that people around me would be having. Will I regret it? no. Because I'll simply disappear. Everything about me would be more dead than Petra (I apologize for the AoT reference). I will simply end there. Meaning, I won't even be able to regret it. That would be a total 'dead end' from all sides.

Another sub-scenario. There is an afterlife but not the one that I've known. There is no heaven and hell and there is no judgement day. I'm simply born again as a human or as something else. Now if I'm born as a human again, I will know that I've been betrayed. Now it'll be my time to enjoy. If I'm born as something else, then it'd be a mix of being born as a human again or it'll simply be dying if I'm born as an animal or something because then I wouldn't know my past self or even if I knew, I'll try to have a blast with that new life.

Second scenario; There is an Afterlife:

I lived my life being as virtuous as possible. I avoided bad things and stuff. Now if I die, and there is this heaven and hell I always believed in. I will not regret my life on Earth not the least bit. Now some of you might say, what about the people who did right things but never believed? it's obvious. If this much is true about those religion then surely the rest will be true as well. Why would God accept your good deeds when you never believed in Him? just a simple question. If everything we know from the religious books turns out to be right then what's there to be questioned? You may bash at God for this but the fact will be a fact once it's proven. Your arguments will all be invalid.

Question: Was I ever in for a loss to believe in an afterlife?


Absolutely not. Not in anyway as you see. It's all a probability theory. Of course it was way more than what I wrote here, but no matter which probability I assumed, I could simply not see why I shouldn't believe in an afterlife.

Question: Why do I believe that the world's gonna end one day?


Because science that's why. Most of you neckbeards know it better than me.

Question: Why do I even believe in a religion?


The only thing I can say about this in my OP is, I have come prepared. Bring on your questions.

Confession:

I wrote the OP before and it was fairly lengthy. But then my internet got disconnected as soon as I clicked the 'create the topic' button. So I may edit more things or just keep adding it in the thread. Bye!

mhmmm..

I didn't read the OP because of the length but this made me laugh.

Well, if reincarnation exists then you probably won't remember it, so you will have to make the choice to believe in Heaven all over again. For all you know, you might have already reincarnated and you still have no answers.

But what you say makes sense, it's just not for me. I choose to live my life without fear and worries about a god who might punish me for not loving him enough. If heaven and hell don't exist, then I will have enjoyed my life to the fullest (again, we're talking about faith and religion, I still try to do good, but for myself and other, not a god) and I'll have no regrets. If there is a god and he sends me to eternal damnation because he's disappointed at me, he's no father of mine and I wouldn't want to be in his company anyway. So win/win, I guess...

Why don't you just say, "Pascal's wager, that's why." It would have been much more succinct than what you typed.

For a supreme being, the Christian God sure is insecure...

It's even simpler than that:

"From God we came and to him we shall return." It's symmetry.

I will not accept the deceit that I'm untrue. I belong to God. Regardless of all else. Including me.

Silly alternative persona sickness is pretty bad here in GS OT.

And there be quite a few downsides to the belief of an afterlife. Check out the middle east. Read about the Crusades. Pretty easy conjecture.

Explain?

God, I am sorry, but the amount of stupidity in this is unbearable.

- "Missing on all most of the fun that people around me would be having. Will I regret it? no." HUH? It is not impossible to have fun/enjoy life while also living up to the "standards" required to go into what many believe to be heaven. Even if you believe you can't personally live a NORMAL life "just in case", you really aren't terrified at the idea that there may not be an afterlife, and you are wasting possibly the ONLY life you have? That is pretty pathetic.

- "Now if I'm born as a human again, I will know that I've been betrayed...I'll try to have a blast with that new life." How the hell would you know? If reincarnation is real, if when anything/one dies we are "born" again, then you would have had a past life and would know NOW that there is no afterlife because you are living another life at this moment.

- "If everything we know from the religious books turns out to be right then what's there to be questioned?" You are talking about a situation in which religion/God cannot be confirmed until you die. So we are really talking about some mischievous being, who asks people to blindly believe in his will, and if you don't - even though SO much flies in the face of such beliefs - then you are fucked? The whole idea of "you better believe in religion, because if it IS true then you'll be sorry if you didn't!" is moronic and EXACTLY the sort of manipulative thinking that many religions create to spark fear and get people to follow them.

- "Why would God accept your good deeds when you never believed in Him? just a simple question." Another warped and ridiculous view of God. If THIS God you speak of exists, then you realize he is a huge asshole right?

God, I am sorry, but the amount of stupidity in this is unbearable.

- By saying 'fun' I meant to say that kinky shit that most of the kewl kids are into today. Underage sex, beers, alcohol consumption etc.. as a religious person (not so much tho), I have my fair share of fun in life. Try to broaden your spectrum on how you view things. It's not the ONLY life. Not now at least when we don't know. Especially if this IS the ONLY life, then I'll just die and no trace of it would remain. Therefore, nothing pathetic in it.

-"How the hell would you know?" do you even read? First thing in my OP was "it's a matter of probability" so ALL of it is "How the hell would we know?". As far as science goes, science tells us that THIS earth had a beginning. Therefore, no other civilization or the past us existed here. Or even if they did..... doesn't it all points out to an actual God? I stand corrected.

- I have my reasons to believe in my religion. This was just one of the most SIMPLEST reasons I could give you to justify my belief. Exactly my point, what if religion is really real? being religious only takes a part from you in this Earth. Just the part which we humans too consider 'immoral' or 'crimes'. At times religion is also stern, but it all has it's own reasons to. If you'd actually study Islam you would know. The problem is, most people don't. Even if the God is manipulative.... still a God. What are you?

-I knew someone would say this. In fact, I actually concurred that almost 90% of the atheists on this site will say this. Why? because they never actually studied what's religion. Did you?

The son becomes the father and the father the son.

@i_return said:

@wis3boi said:

I understand humans are afraid of not knowing and will make shit up to make themselves warm and fuzzy

Potassium. Your opinion is general.

1400 years ago actually... and do you have the proof that it was actually written by a human? because from what I've seen, a mere human can't write all that.

Tell me pls.

Could mere humans write all that?

It was written by many people who were supposedly just the hand that writes the word of their god... Whatever that means. Some books were even just letters written to other people. And who could have written it if not people?

EDIt: We're talking about the Bible, right? That's the only "holy" book that I've read entirely. Very interesting actually.

@Motokid6 said:

@i_return said:

1400 years ago actually... and do you have the proof that it was actually written by a human? because from what I've seen, a mere human can't write all that.

Tell me pls.

And that's far from being the largest novel ever written.

=O Jesus wrote War And Peace??

@Motokid6: I understood what you meant, I just thought it would be funny to turn it around. Apparently, it wasn't XD

@Motokid6: Unfortunately I have to agree, especially since most of the religious people I know picks and chooses which parts they follow, taking what they like as word of God and what they don't like as "something someone wrote". Then I know a few whose interpretation of said word of God is that everything is acceptable, as long as they repent afterwards...those are the scary ones in my opinion.

there may be an after life but the bible version of it is almost certainly bullshit.

just take hell for example.

why would a morally superior being roast you alive for eternity for breaking a few rules?

that's like me taking my dogs in the backyard and dousing them in gasoline for shitting in the floor.

if there can never be redemption what purpose does it serve other than revenge?

the whole concept is exactly the kind of braindead shit a bronze age sheep fucker would come up with.

and what if you pick the wrong religion?

Yea this is what frustrates me.

My father's a Mormon. Whenever I bring up anything to speak on, if it wanders into territory that challenges his points or I corner him, show hypocrisy, etc, he immediately comes out with the "well, that's not what Ibelieve" line. Every time. It's impossible to argue with him, because he's always moving the goalposts to suit his argument. The way I see it, how can you even hold a position when it's constantly tailored on the fly? How is it possible to cherry pick the word of God?

I don't bother with him anymore. We can't watch debates, nothing because at some point, to his convenience, "that's not what he believes".

There is no proof or evidence that there is an afterlife. All of the knowledge we have is in the brain and brain dies when we die

@wis3boi said:

Neil, with all his scientific knowledge and awesomeness is just as inept at proving there isn't a God.

why would anyone do that

I dunno. It just seems hilarious whenever someone retorts with "Science, bitch!" like that disproves God in any way.

While I am a very religious person I understand that no arguments via an internet forum are going to change anyone's ideas of religion. It's better just to agree to disagree and move on.

that had nothing to do with my response to his nonsense

People do "good" and "bad" things to get into heaven based on the belief in the afterlife, which for most, requires an instruction manual such as the bible or quran. The instruction manuals are philosophical, not factual, and held to the same fallible criteria that causes people to follow them in the first place.

Fear. That is what the carrot does best. And fear can make people do crazy things. So someone who might otherwise never kill someone might just do it if the fear of their "afterlife" is greater than the fear of the realm of man.

This is just Pascal's Wager. I remember having a lot of fun tearing it apart in a first year philosophy class.

Anyway, what if the god Varnax the Colossal exists, and he embraces all of his faithful *and* non-believers under his wing, but who punishes infidels who believe in other gods or afterlives?

Suddenly, believing in religions is a terrible idea. Also, since Varnax is exactly as likely to exist as any other god, and since there are an infinite number of possible gods like Varnax...statistically speaking, you're utterly screwed no matter what you do.

So, logically speaking, it doesn't really matter what you belive, since you're basically certain to be wrong.

Having said that, you should still aim to live a decent life, since laws *do* exist and will havr repercussions if you misbehave.

You can't disprove something that doesn't exist.

See: russle's teacup

Stop reading here. Sure you are not a neckbeard?

Pascal's wager is probably the worst argument for christianity that christians take seriously.

Teapot. But honestly, burden of proof swings both ways. If you're going to tell someone, scientifically, that there is no God, you better damned well prove it, and you can't. No one can. Which is why you cannot say God doesn't exist as a factual statement. You can believe he doesn't exist based on scientific evidence explaining everything around you, but science has NEVER been able to explain why things exist. They've only been able to explain how they got there. Science never will, either. For every question it answers, it creates a new question. Also, God need not exist in the sense that we commonly know in the bible. If the bible ever where written by man as the Word of God, it's gone through so many hands during that time that we really can't know what to believe in a theological sense.

I think any atheist who isn't completely stupid will acknowledge the possibility that a god exists, while continuing to operate on the assumption that there is no god due to the absence of evidence of one.

@Planeforger: I've been saying that for years now but never used an example quite as clear as you have. Might steal it now XD
@MirkoS77: Well, even if you can't have a proper discussion with him, at least he seems to be one of the polite ones, so be thankful for at least that =P

To suppose that existence is purposed ("why things exist") is a rather anthropomorphic leap of logic, isn't it?

@TheWalkingGhost: I'm a young handsome man. Sure I'm not.

I was talking about Quran. Bible has been fabricated according to Quran. It's not in it's real form. But Quran is. If you read Quran you'll know.

see my reply to the above person.

@korvus said:

@Motokid6 said:

@i_return said:

1400 years ago actually... and do you have the proof that it was actually written by a human? because from what I've seen, a mere human can't write all that.

Tell me pls.

And that's far from being the largest novel ever written.

=O Jesus wrote War And Peace??

what the hell is even that?

Why could nobody write the Quran? It's not very long or even that well written.

"It's not very long."

So because it's concise humans could write it but if it was 2 thousands pages of scattered bullshit humans couldn't write it?

"or even that well written."

You can't say Quran isn't "well written" without giving any proof. Unless you have a degree in Arabic language which you don't. Arabs would know better than non-Arabs if a book written in their native language is well written or not. Non-believers accused our prophet of sorcery just hearing Quranic verses so I say it's common knowledge that Quran is indeed very well written.

You still haven't given a reason why humans couldn't write it.

I'm not going to waste my life on one of the gazillion religions out there, because there might be a teeny tiny chance that I've happened to pick the right one and that there might be a heaven. No I'm going to grab this life and live it to the fullest without being hindered by religion's dogma.

What I'd have to lose by sticking to a religion? My whole friggin LIFE, that's what.