I'm sixteen getting my first car soon. i love cars that have upgradablity. i havent drove a am yet but drove the 3000gt this weekend and loved it. Had great pickup and awsome handling. Im manily going to make apperance upgrades not performance upgrades. which in your opinion is the better car, and what is a good price to pay for one.
Mitsubishi 3000gt or Pontiac Trans Am
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Neither. You're obviously interested in these vehicles because of their emotional appeal for you personally. Otherwise, you would have done the research and realized that they are both subpar cars. Both have various mechanical flaws, some of which can't be corrected without serious investment because they're inherent flaws in the the chassis or engine. That's not to say that they're horrible cars; the assertion that any vehicle is simply "horrible" is dubious at best, and outright ignorant at worst, and sometimes even a little ethnocentric. My point is, neither car is exceptional, and I would be extremely thorough when considering one of either of the models. First and foremost because of their price and ownership history. Both are cars purchased by people who want sports cars, but don't have the income for them. How do you think most of these people drove? When you test drive, drive it hard, I'm talking about taking the RPMs up to no less than 4000 before each shift. In fact, if I were considering a high mileage sports car, I would get a diagnostics interface, which vary in price. It's $50-300 for a product that pays dividends in the long-run.
If you're interested in modifying a car, I would suggest a Civic, Jetta, Celica, or other late model sport coupe/sedan. You're 16. You need to be realistic. To decide if you want either of these cars, I would suggest finding make/model specific forums, which will give you a wealth of informaton concerning upgrades, manufacturing defects, etc. (for example, I drive a Jetta 1.8T. I discuss the 1.8T engine on VW Vortex, not Gamespot). Hobby-specific websites and communities are key.
The problem with 3000GTs specifically relates to the power to weight ratio and front to back ratio (in terms of weight). The 3000GT is probably one of the heaviest entry-level sports cars of the 90's - and one of the most underpowered and inadequately engineered; a Mazda RX-7 it is not. I assume you're talking about the SL and not the VR4. For the record, the VR4 is even worse, especially if it still has stock turbos on it...
Point is, my VW owns. Even with the downpipe that needs to be replaced.
BMW. 3-Series, they just own. E21, E30, E36, E46, they're styling is just , ultimate.....GTA_dudeHahahaha. I was telling him to be cost-efficient, and you go telling him to buy a BMW? An old BMW or Porsche is an awesome deal, until you have to order parts from the Krauts. That's why you buy VW-Audi. Unlike Porsche, Mercedes, and BMW, they don't rape you, err...as hard.
Hahahaha. I was telling him to be cost-efficient, and you go telling him to buy a BMW? An old BMW or Porsche is an awesome deal, until you have to order parts from the Krauts. Wtf you talking about? BMW's arn't as expensive to maintain as people say they are. Actually, they are very cheap to maintain. Actually, they cost less then the 3000GT and a Trans Am. And Krauts? Once again, what are you talking about? I dont order parts from there.....I've done quite alot of work on my car, but I didn't have to put alot of money into it......[QUOTE="GTA_dude"]BMW. 3-Series, they just own. E21, E30, E36, E46, they're styling is just , ultimate.....YourChaosIsntMe
Were both cars base V6 models? The 3000GT non-VR4's are FWD, which is... well, while far less awesome than RWD, it's also a lot easier and safer for somebody to learn on. If you go into a turn too hot, understeer is much easier for somebody to handle than oversteer.I'm sixteen getting my first car soon. i love cars that have upgradablity. i havent drove a am yet but drove the 3000gt this weekend and loved it. Had great pickup and awsome handling. Im manily going to make apperance upgrades not performance upgrades. which in your opinion is the better car, and what is a good price to pay for one.
ramee321
[QUOTE="YourChaosIsntMe"]Hahahaha. I was telling him to be cost-efficient, and you go telling him to buy a BMW? An old BMW or Porsche is an awesome deal, until you have to order parts from the Krauts. Wtf you talking about? BMW's arn't as expensive to maintain as people say they are. Actually, they are very cheap to maintain. Actually, they cost less then the 3000GT and a Trans Am. And Krauts? Once again, what are you talking about? I dont order parts from there.....I've done quite alot of work on my car, but I didn't have to put alot of money into it...... First, don't get too serious man. BMWs are expensive to maintain when you need to replace parts, provided you're going to put a BMW certified part in the vehicle. I don't consider third-party parts a legitimate factor in maintenance costs. Manufacturer certified (or at least accepted industry-wide) or it isn't going in my car. They only cost less if you can pull your own used parts and install them yourself. Simply by the very nature of BMW dealers and certified third-party shops/tuners, they are more expensive to maintain than either a Mitsubishi or Pontiac. You can have a Trans Am worked on for less than $40 an hour labor fees from a reputable shop.[QUOTE="GTA_dude"]BMW. 3-Series, they just own. E21, E30, E36, E46, they're styling is just , ultimate.....GTA_dude
Most people are not you and I. Most people will simply choose to bring their vehicle to a shop. A BMW or an old Porsche is only cheap to maintain if you can maintain it yourself; be realistic, we're the exception, not the rule. But, that point is moot. An old BMW or a new Jetta is still a better option than a Trans Am, regardless of the minor cost increase.
Yes, I know that you don't order parts from "there." That isn't the point. The company which ultimately owns the products - whether they are manufactured in Germany by the company or a subsidiary, or in Mexico by a sub-contractor, is based in Germany. I didn't mean that as a simplistic statement. My car has parts manufactured all over the world, though primarily in Mexico, Germany, and U.S. Then it is assembled in Mexico. Regardless of this, VW-Audi (and BMW) operate on the Euro, which affects pricing for vehicles and parts in the U.S. (well, not so much now as 10 months ago).
I disagree on Porsche. Porsche is in the same category. All of the manufacturers have or had exorbitantly priced super cars (BMW M1, M2 and M3 GTR, Porsche 911/C. GT, M-B McLaren, Audi R8, Bugatti (VW) Veyron). The vast majority of vehicles in Porsche's history belies your statement that Porsche are something different. 922, 924, 944, 928, Boxster, Cayman. In fact, the 944 Turbo is my next car. The 944 is a contender in that class, or was while it was still in production.
[QUOTE="YourChaosIsntMe"]Hahahaha. I was telling him to be cost-efficient, and you go telling him to buy a BMW? An old BMW or Porsche is an awesome deal, until you have to order parts from the Krauts. Wtf you talking about? BMW's arn't as expensive to maintain as people say they are. Actually, they are very cheap to maintain. Actually, they cost less then the 3000GT and a Trans Am. And Krauts? Once again, what are you talking about? I dont order parts from there.....I've done quite alot of work on my car, but I didn't have to put alot of money into it...... When you say BMW's do you mean just the 3 series or all BMWs because i know the for a fact the 7 series are a very costly for even the most minor problems.[QUOTE="GTA_dude"]BMW. 3-Series, they just own. E21, E30, E36, E46, they're styling is just , ultimate.....GTA_dude
First, don't get too serious man. BMWs are expensive to maintain when you need to replace parts, provided you're going to put a BMW certified part in the vehicle. I don't consider third-party parts a legitimate factor in maintenance costs. Manufacturer certified (or at least accepted industry-wide) or it isn't going in my car. They only cost less if you can pull your own used parts and install them yourself. Simply by the very nature of BMW dealers and certified third-party shops/tuners, they are more expensive to maintain than either a Mitsubishi or Pontiac. You can have a Trans Am worked on for less than $40 an hour labor fees from a reputable shop.[QUOTE="GTA_dude"][QUOTE="YourChaosIsntMe"] Wtf you talking about? BMW's arn't as expensive to maintain as people say they are. Actually, they are very cheap to maintain. Actually, they cost less then the 3000GT and a Trans Am. And Krauts? Once again, what are you talking about? I dont order parts from there.....I've done quite alot of work on my car, but I didn't have to put alot of money into it......YourChaosIsntMe
Most people are not you and I. Most people will simply choose to bring their vehicle to a shop. A BMW or an old Porsche is only cheap to maintain if you can maintain it yourself; be realistic, we're the exception, not the rule. But, that point is moot. An old BMW or a new Jetta is still a better option than a Trans Am, regardless of the minor cost increase.
Yes, I know that you don't order parts from "there." That isn't the point. The company which ultimately owns the products - whether they are manufactured in Germany by the company or a subsidiary, or in Mexico by a sub-contractor, is based in Germany. I didn't mean that as a simplistic statement. My car has parts manufactured all over the world, though primarily in Mexico, Germany, and U.S. Then it is assembled in Mexico. Regardless of this, VW-Audi (and BMW) operate on the Euro, which affects pricing for vehicles and parts in the U.S. (well, not so much now as 10 months ago).
I disagree on Porsche. Porsche is in the same category. All of the manufacturers have or had exorbitantly priced super cars (BMW M1, M2 and M3 GTR, Porsche 911/C. GT, M-B McLaren, Audi R8, Bugatti (VW) Veyron). The vast majority of vehicles in Porsche's history belies your statement that Porsche are something different. 922, 924, 944, 928, Boxster, Cayman. In fact, the 944 Turbo is my next car. The 944 is a contender in that class, or was while it was still in production.
Damn, that guy just put him on blast...Magna_Man109lol yea that was a good post.
Wtf you talking about? BMW's arn't as expensive to maintain as people say they are. Actually, they are very cheap to maintain. Actually, they cost less then the 3000GT and a Trans Am. And Krauts? Once again, what are you talking about? I dont order parts from there.....I've done quite alot of work on my car, but I didn't have to put alot of money into it...... First, don't get too serious man. BMWs are expensive to maintain when you need to replace parts, provided you're going to put a BMW certified part in the vehicle. I don't consider third-party parts a legitimate factor in maintenance costs. Manufacturer certified (or at least accepted industry-wide) or it isn't going in my car. They only cost less if you can pull your own used parts and install them yourself. Simply by the very nature of BMW dealers and certified third-party shops/tuners, they are more expensive to maintain than either a Mitsubishi or Pontiac. You can have a Trans Am worked on for less than $40 an hour labor fees from a reputable shop.[QUOTE="GTA_dude"][QUOTE="YourChaosIsntMe"] Hahahaha. I was telling him to be cost-efficient, and you go telling him to buy a BMW? An old BMW or Porsche is an awesome deal, until you have to order parts from the Krauts.
YourChaosIsntMe
Most people are not you and I. Most people will simply choose to bring their vehicle to a shop. A BMW or an old Porsche is only cheap to maintain if you can maintain it yourself; be realistic, we're the exception, not the rule. But, that point is moot. An old BMW or a new Jetta is still a better option than a Trans Am, regardless of the minor cost increase.
Yes, I know that you don't order parts from "there." That isn't the point. The company which ultimately owns the products - whether they are manufactured in Germany by the company or a subsidiary, or in Mexico by a sub-contractor, is based in Germany. I didn't mean that as a simplistic statement. My car has parts manufactured all over the world, though primarily in Mexico, Germany, and U.S. Then it is assembled in Mexico. Regardless of this, VW-Audi (and BMW) operate on the Euro, which affects pricing for vehicles and parts in the U.S. (well, not so much now as 10 months ago).
I disagree on Porsche. Porsche is in the same category. All of the manufacturers have or had exorbitantly priced super cars (BMW M1, M2 and M3 GTR, Porsche 911/C. GT, M-B McLaren, Audi R8, Bugatti (VW) Veyron). The vast majority of vehicles in Porsche's history belies your statement that Porsche are something different. 922, 924, 944, 928, Boxster, Cayman. In fact, the 944 Turbo is my next car. The 944 is a contender in that class, or was while it was still in production.
Lol, your the one who took my first post serious, you did edit that quote twice.... And any car is expensive to work on if you go to a certified place to work on it (Dealers are a ***** if you take your car to one, any car). And Trans Ams are only cheap because they've been so popular and there are sooo many aftermarket parts from them. But either way, unless your getting a crappy 3rd gen, it will still cost you more to purchase the car then it would to buy an E36 (I've looked at them), and they are still not that reliable. Odds are you'd have to take the trans am to the shop enough times to where it would cost you the same as a bmw your describing. And alot of shops (Or atleast here) dont care what your car is, they'll work on it anyway for the same labor price.And who says I'm not putting certified parts on my car? Some parts are, some arn't. It all depends on whether or not it matters. Like, head gasket with head bolts, dealer parts, fuel filter, autozone, camshaft position sensor, off the internet. Most parts are from the dealer though, I just got them cheaper then they would sell them. And I'd imagine if your putting alot of thought into your first car and you expect to modify it, you'd do alot of work yourself, and it would be a really good opportunity to learn about working on cars too.
And yah, each has its own higher priced car, but thats not my point, I was talking about a certain class of cars. Cheap, small, front engine, 4 seater sport coupes/sedans that are Realistically in the price range for a first car. The 928/944 are the closest to this class (And they are also hella cheap), I give you that, but they are still not in the car class I was talking about. And the 928/944 compared to the 3000GT, I'd probably go with the 3000GT. 944's also are the worst porsche ever made, other then the 914.
And I'm interested in the M2 you mentioned?
First, don't get too serious man. BMWs are expensive to maintain when you need to replace parts, provided you're going to put a BMW certified part in the vehicle. I don't consider third-party parts a legitimate factor in maintenance costs. Manufacturer certified (or at least accepted industry-wide) or it isn't going in my car. They only cost less if you can pull your own used parts and install them yourself. Simply by the very nature of BMW dealers and certified third-party shops/tuners, they are more expensive to maintain than either a Mitsubishi or Pontiac. You can have a Trans Am worked on for less than $40 an hour labor fees from a reputable shop.[QUOTE="YourChaosIsntMe"]
[QUOTE="GTA_dude"] Wtf you talking about? BMW's arn't as expensive to maintain as people say they are. Actually, they are very cheap to maintain. Actually, they cost less then the 3000GT and a Trans Am. And Krauts? Once again, what are you talking about? I dont order parts from there.....I've done quite alot of work on my car, but I didn't have to put alot of money into it......GTA_dude
Most people are not you and I. Most people will simply choose to bring their vehicle to a shop. A BMW or an old Porsche is only cheap to maintain if you can maintain it yourself; be realistic, we're the exception, not the rule. But, that point is moot. An old BMW or a new Jetta is still a better option than a Trans Am, regardless of the minor cost increase.
Yes, I know that you don't order parts from "there." That isn't the point. The company which ultimately owns the products - whether they are manufactured in Germany by the company or a subsidiary, or in Mexico by a sub-contractor, is based in Germany. I didn't mean that as a simplistic statement. My car has parts manufactured all over the world, though primarily in Mexico, Germany, and U.S. Then it is assembled in Mexico. Regardless of this, VW-Audi (and BMW) operate on the Euro, which affects pricing for vehicles and parts in the U.S. (well, not so much now as 10 months ago).
I disagree on Porsche. Porsche is in the same category. All of the manufacturers have or had exorbitantly priced super cars (BMW M1, M2 and M3 GTR, Porsche 911/C. GT, M-B McLaren, Audi R8, Bugatti (VW) Veyron). The vast majority of vehicles in Porsche's history belies your statement that Porsche are something different. 922, 924, 944, 928, Boxster, Cayman. In fact, the 944 Turbo is my next car. The 944 is a contender in that class, or was while it was still in production.
Lol, your the one who took my first post serious, you did edit that quote twice.... And any car is expensive to work on if you go to a certified place to work on it (Dealers are a ***** if you take your car to one, any car). And Trans Ams are only cheap because they've been so popular and there are sooo many aftermarket parts from them. But either way, unless your getting a crappy 3rd gen, it will still cost you more to purchase the car then it would to buy an E36 (I've looked at them), and they are still not that reliable. Odds are you'd have to take the trans am to the shop enough times to where it would cost you the same as a bmw your describing. And alot of shops (Or atleast here) dont care what your car is, they'll work on it anyway for the same labor price.And who says I'm not putting certified parts on my car? Some parts are, some arn't. It all depends on whether or not it matters. Like, head gasket with head bolts, dealer parts, fuel filter, autozone, camshaft position sensor, off the internet. Most parts are from the dealer though, I just got them cheaper then they would sell them. And I'd imagine if your putting alot of thought into your first car and you expect to modify it, you'd do alot of work yourself, and it would be a really good opportunity to learn about working on cars too.
And yah, each has its own higher priced car, but thats not my point, I was talking about a certain class of cars. Cheap, small, front engine, 4 seater sport coupes/sedans that are Realistically in the price range for a first car. The 928/944 are the closest to this class (And they are also hella cheap), I give you that, but they are still not in the car class I was talking about. And the 928/944 compared to the 3000GT, I'd probably go with the 3000GT. 944's also are the worst porsche ever made, other then the 914.
And I'm interested in the M2 you mentioned?
So you would trust some American auto work shop to work on a foreign car? Is that even possible? I only ask because my folks only take their BMW to the certified BMW workshop because they believe they are the only ones who can really work on the car besides those High mod places like Alpina,Dinan etc etc.[QUOTE="GTA_dude"]Lol, your the one who took my first post serious, you did edit that quote twice.... And any car is expensive to work on if you go to a certified place to work on it (Dealers are a ***** if you take your car to one, any car). And Trans Ams are only cheap because they've been so popular and there are sooo many aftermarket parts from them. But either way, unless your getting a crappy 3rd gen, it will still cost you more to purchase the car then it would to buy an E36 (I've looked at them), and they are still not that reliable. Odds are you'd have to take the trans am to the shop enough times to where it would cost you the same as a bmw your describing. And alot of shops (Or atleast here) dont care what your car is, they'll work on it anyway for the same labor price.[QUOTE="YourChaosIsntMe"] First, don't get too serious man. BMWs are expensive to maintain when you need to replace parts, provided you're going to put a BMW certified part in the vehicle. I don't consider third-party parts a legitimate factor in maintenance costs. Manufacturer certified (or at least accepted industry-wide) or it isn't going in my car. They only cost less if you can pull your own used parts and install them yourself. Simply by the very nature of BMW dealers and certified third-party shops/tuners, they are more expensive to maintain than either a Mitsubishi or Pontiac. You can have a Trans Am worked on for less than $40 an hour labor fees from a reputable shop.
Most people are not you and I. Most people will simply choose to bring their vehicle to a shop. A BMW or an old Porsche is only cheap to maintain if you can maintain it yourself; be realistic, we're the exception, not the rule. But, that point is moot. An old BMW or a new Jetta is still a better option than a Trans Am, regardless of the minor cost increase.
Yes, I know that you don't order parts from "there." That isn't the point. The company which ultimately owns the products - whether they are manufactured in Germany by the company or a subsidiary, or in Mexico by a sub-contractor, is based in Germany. I didn't mean that as a simplistic statement. My car has parts manufactured all over the world, though primarily in Mexico, Germany, and U.S. Then it is assembled in Mexico. Regardless of this, VW-Audi (and BMW) operate on the Euro, which affects pricing for vehicles and parts in the U.S. (well, not so much now as 10 months ago).
I disagree on Porsche. Porsche is in the same category. All of the manufacturers have or had exorbitantly priced super cars (BMW M1, M2 and M3 GTR, Porsche 911/C. GT, M-B McLaren, Audi R8, Bugatti (VW) Veyron). The vast majority of vehicles in Porsche's history belies your statement that Porsche are something different. 922, 924, 944, 928, Boxster, Cayman. In fact, the 944 Turbo is my next car. The 944 is a contender in that class, or was while it was still in production.
Dub_c6969
And who says I'm not putting certified parts on my car? Some parts are, some arn't. It all depends on whether or not it matters. Like, head gasket with head bolts, dealer parts, fuel filter, autozone, camshaft position sensor, off the internet. Most parts are from the dealer though, I just got them cheaper then they would sell them. And I'd imagine if your putting alot of thought into your first car and you expect to modify it, you'd do alot of work yourself, and it would be a really good opportunity to learn about working on cars too.
And yah, each has its own higher priced car, but thats not my point, I was talking about a certain class of cars. Cheap, small, front engine, 4 seater sport coupes/sedans that are Realistically in the price range for a first car. The 928/944 are the closest to this class (And they are also hella cheap), I give you that, but they are still not in the car class I was talking about. And the 928/944 compared to the 3000GT, I'd probably go with the 3000GT. 944's also are the worst porsche ever made, other then the 914.
And I'm interested in the M2 you mentioned?
So you would trust some American auto work shop to work on a foreign car? Is that even possible? I only ask because my folks only take their BMW to the certified BMW workshop because they believe they are the only ones who can really work on the car besides those High mod places like Alpina,Dinan etc etc. Lol, I only trust myself and my dad to even touch my car. Cause anyone else working on your car doesn't actually care for the car, they only care about the money they're making.And you know, basically every car is exactly the same with only minor differences. If you can work on one, you can work on them all, doesn't matter what country it came from. Yeah, the quality and experiences differs from place to place, but that also includes dealers. Sometimes the dealers dont know **** about the cars they are working on, the people actually doing the work on the cars can be the same kinda people you'd find working on your car at Pep Boys.....
But then again, some of the dealers can be better then another shop. I guess it all goes off of who you want to trust. I've talked to guys at the BMW dealership here in Phoenix the other day, and I knew more about my car then they did. Seriously, those guys in the parts department where idiots, I was asking for a part and I was just talking over their heads or something. A guy who I work with is going to school to work at a dealership, and he just barely finished school, I was talking to him about a problem with my car a few months ago, and he had no clue what to do (I fixed the problem easily though without his help, I just wanted to see if he would know).
Edit: But dont take this as a way of me telling you to not go where ever your use to going to get your car fixed, cause I dont care what your doing. If its working fine, then just stick with the same shop. I'm just saying, non certified places arn't that bad
[QUOTE="Dub_c6969"][QUOTE="GTA_dude"] Lol, your the one who took my first post serious, you did edit that quote twice.... And any car is expensive to work on if you go to a certified place to work on it (Dealers are a ***** if you take your car to one, any car). And Trans Ams are only cheap because they've been so popular and there are sooo many aftermarket parts from them. But either way, unless your getting a crappy 3rd gen, it will still cost you more to purchase the car then it would to buy an E36 (I've looked at them), and they are still not that reliable. Odds are you'd have to take the trans am to the shop enough times to where it would cost you the same as a bmw your describing. And alot of shops (Or atleast here) dont care what your car is, they'll work on it anyway for the same labor price.So you would trust some American auto work shop to work on a foreign car? Is that even possible? I only ask because my folks only take their BMW to the certified BMW workshop because they believe they are the only ones who can really work on the car besides those High mod places like Alpina,Dinan etc etc. Lol, I only trust myself and my dad to even touch my car. Cause anyone else working on your car doesn't actually care for the car, they only care about the money they're making. And you know, basically every car is exactly the same with only minor differences. If you can work on one, you can work on them all, doesn't matter what country it came from. Yeah, the quality and experiences differs from place to place, but that also includes dealers. Sometimes the dealers dont know **** about the cars they are working on, the people actually doing the work on the cars can be the same kinda people you'd find working on your car at Pep Boys..... But then again, some of the dealers can be better then another shop. I guess it all goes off of who you want to trust. I've talked to guys at the BMW dealership here in Phoenix the other day, and I knew more about my car then they did. Seriously, those guys in the parts department where idiots, I was asking for a part and I was just talking over their heads or something. A guy who I work with is going to school to work at a dealership, and he just barely finished school, I was talking to him about a problem with my car a few months ago, and he had no clue what to do (I fixed the problem easily though without his help, I just wanted to see if he would know).Ok i see what you saying. I wish i could tell my parents that but its only certified for them.And who says I'm not putting certified parts on my car? Some parts are, some arn't. It all depends on whether or not it matters. Like, head gasket with head bolts, dealer parts, fuel filter, autozone, camshaft position sensor, off the internet. Most parts are from the dealer though, I just got them cheaper then they would sell them. And I'd imagine if your putting alot of thought into your first car and you expect to modify it, you'd do alot of work yourself, and it would be a really good opportunity to learn about working on cars too.
And yah, each has its own higher priced car, but thats not my point, I was talking about a certain class of cars. Cheap, small, front engine, 4 seater sport coupes/sedans that are Realistically in the price range for a first car. The 928/944 are the closest to this class (And they are also hella cheap), I give you that, but they are still not in the car class I was talking about. And the 928/944 compared to the 3000GT, I'd probably go with the 3000GT. 944's also are the worst porsche ever made, other then the 914.
And I'm interested in the M2 you mentioned?
GTA_dude
I will be driving this in 3-4 months. This is the exact bodykit i'm going to install and most likely the same color. Either the white and black or just red.
Hondas are known to be reliable cars and I would love a car I can mod. I don't care much about performance(speed), but I love hondas for the modability and they also have a casual look to them similar to bmw coupes. They don't look like race cars, but have a very sporty look to them although bmws are in another league compared to hondas, but hondas are in my price range lol
Lol, yeah, read my edit, if it works for them, then just stick with the same place In general it doesn't matter, but there is an extra bonus of sorts - if the shop focuses entirely on BMW's or a similar situation (as often happens), they'll be extremely familiar with the peculiarities of a given model or line.[QUOTE="Dub_c6969"]Ok i see what you saying. I wish i could tell my parents that but its only certified for them.
GTA_dude
(Hopes not to get flamed, as this seems to be a life or death topic)
How about a 1994-98 Nissan 300zx. Affordable at $5000 and I'm pretty sure it can take the 3000gt in a race.
GTA_dudeI agree with you, remember that. Your first paragraph belies the point that A.most people want to go to a certified shop for obvious reasons, and B. have little to no mechanical engineering knowledge or aptitude. Again, I agree that a Trans Am can end up being more expensive, especially third-gen Trans Ams. I effectively told the TC that in my first response. But, if he is rational and logical in his purchase, a Trans Am or 3000GT could save him a lot of money over a BMW or VW. I understand all of the points that you make, and they are valid, but they also go too far into the abstract for your average car buyer to accept. From working on your own car to "most shops will do work on any type of car," phrases like that don't offer comfort to people when most of them are wary of buying a vehicle to begin with. It is only rational to trust American shops to understand a Trans Am better than they do a BMW. I have experienced this first-hand, from someone not having the right tools to not even knowing what certain components are. This is gradually disappearing as time continues and companies from across every possible industry begin operating globally and integrating their engineering techniques with those of other manufacturers, but it is still a fact, for now. The fact also remains that most GM parts are still manufactured in the U.S., China, or Mexico, and once again, the manufacturer's primary currency is relevant. It is far cheaper to buy an alternator for a Trans Am than it is to purchase one for A BMW (assuming we're talking about new OEM parts).
The price is more variable with used and aftermarket parts, but again, just because you and I (and others like us) are comfortable with that, it doesn't mean that everyone else is. Also, I wasn't criticizing you for using aftermarket parts. If you're adept and understand your vehicle, you know which manufacturers are good, and which are not; this can't be expected of most people (and while I know which ones make good products, I still prefer not to install them unless necessary). I too prefer purchasing factory-approved used parts off of Ebay.
Most people I know that have modified cars haven't done the work themselves. Maybe we can agree that they're lazy, but even so...they still payed a shop to do it. Here in Tampa, the premiere Audi-VW-BMW-Mercedes-Porsche tuner charges $80 per labor hour, and a good GM-Ford-Honda-anything mechanic will charge $40-50, sometimes less. We have to assume that every buyer does not know how to do their own work, and that every buyer wants to bring their car to a reputable mechanic. Thus, a Trans Am is cheaper, provided the TC is prudent and rational in his purchase and does not buy Joe-Jack Moron's drag racing muscle trash. Again, I agree. Why mod it if you're not going to do it yourself?
By how you explained it, a 944 is in that class. Cheap, small, front engine, 2+2 (err..2 infants), sport coupe. Why would you take a 3000GT over a 928 or 944? Are you kidding me? Heinrich Himmler frowns on you. The 944 (and 928 ) ist ein gutes Auto. Die Deutschen hassen Sie. Your statement about the 944 is hyperbole. Why? because it refers to the first few years of the 944 (in the early 80's), in which the engine and many of the suspension components were different than those used in the later model years. Comparing a 944 from 1982 (one of the worst Porsches ever) with a 944 from 1989 (one of the best, and most affordable) is simply wrong. Likewise, the 914 wasn't really a *bad* car. Compared to other cars of that era, it was simply uninspiring (though mechanically sound). The criticism for Porsches has always been fueled more by expectations of what Porsche is supposed to be rather than legitimate flaws in the engineering of das autos.
The M2 is a rare M-badged BMW released in Europe exclusively (I believe) during the 70's and early 80's. But, I was mistaken; it was a rather affordable M-badged model, though it was often turned into a monster of a touring car in it's day. Apparently there are only 91 left worldwide. Interestingly there isn't even a Wikipedia page for it, that shows you how rare it is. So, that is the M2. A couple of guys have their own enthusiast sites with all of the technical specs posted if you want to google them.
Yeah, sometimes I start rambling. So sue me. I obviously read Car and Driver just as much as Gamepro when I was a kid, hahaha.
I agree with you, remember that. Your first paragraph belies the point that A.most people want to go to a certified shop for obvious reasons, and B. have little to no mechanical engineering knowledge or aptitude. Again, I agree that a Trans Am can end up being more expensive, especially third-gen Trans Ams. I effectively told the TC that in my first response. But, if he is rational and logical in his purchase, a Trans Am or 3000GT could save him a lot of money over a BMW or VW. I understand all of the points that you make, and they are valid, but they also go too far into the abstract for your average car buyer to accept. From working on your own car to "most shops will do work on any type of car," phrases like that don't offer comfort to people when most of them are wary of buying a vehicle to begin with. It is only rational to trust American shops to understand a Trans Am better than they do a BMW. I have experienced this first-hand, from someone not having the right tools to not even knowing what certain components are. This is gradually disappearing as time continues and companies from across every possible industry begin operating globally and integrating their engineering techniques with those of other manufacturers, but it is still a fact, for now. The fact also remains that most GM parts are still manufactured in the U.S., China, or Mexico, and once again, the manufacturer's primary currency is relevant. It is far cheaper to buy an alternator for a Trans Am than it is to purchase one for A BMW (assuming we're talking about new OEM parts).[QUOTE="GTA_dude"]YourChaosIsntMe
The price is more variable with used and aftermarket parts, but again, just because you and I (and others like us) are comfortable with that, it doesn't mean that everyone else is. Also, I wasn't criticizing you for using aftermarket parts. If you're adept and understand your vehicle, you know which manufacturers are good, and which are not; this can't be expected of most people (and while I know which ones make good products, I still prefer not to install them unless necessary). I too prefer purchasing factory-approved used parts off of Ebay.
Most people I know that have modified cars haven't done the work themselves. Maybe we can agree that they're lazy, but even so...they still payed a shop to do it. Here in Tampa, the premiere Audi-VW-BMW-Mercedes-Porsche tuner charges $80 per labor hour, and a good GM-Ford-Honda-anything mechanic will charge $40-50, sometimes less. We have to assume that every buyer does not know how to do their own work, and that every buyer wants to bring their car to a reputable mechanic. Thus, a Trans Am is cheaper, provided the TC is prudent and rational in his purchase and does not buy Joe-Jack Moron's drag racing muscle trash. Again, I agree. Why mod it if you're not going to do it yourself?
By how you explained it, a 944 is in that class. Cheap, small, front engine, 2+2 (err..2 infants), sport coupe. Why would you take a 3000GT over a 928 or 944? Are you kidding me? Heinrich Himmler frowns on you. The 944 (and 928 ) ist ein gutes Auto. Die Deutschen hassen Sie. Your statement about the 944 is hyperbole. Why? because it refers to the first few years of the 944 (in the early 80's), in which the engine and many of the suspension components were different than those used in the later model years. Comparing a 944 from 1982 (one of the worst Porsches ever) with a 944 from 1989 (one of the best, and most affordable) is simply wrong. Likewise, the 914 wasn't really a *bad* car. Compared to other cars of that era, it was simply uninspiring (though mechanically sound). The criticism for Porsches has always been fueled more by expectations of what Porsche is supposed to be rather than legitimate flaws in the engineering of das autos.
The M2 is a rare M-badged BMW released in Europe exclusively (I believe) during the 70's and early 80's. But, I was mistaken; it was a rather affordable M-badged model, though it was often turned into a monster of a touring car in it's day. Apparently there are only 91 left worldwide. Interestingly there isn't even a Wikipedia page for it, that shows you how rare it is. So, that is the M2. A couple of guys have their own enthusiast sites with all of the technical specs posted if you want to google them.
Yeah, sometimes I start rambling. So sue me. I obviously read Car and Driver just as much as Gamepro when I was a kid, hahaha.
Interesting post!
I'm sixteen getting my first car soon. i love cars that have upgradablity. i havent drove a am yet but drove the 3000gt this weekend and loved it. Had great pickup and awsome handling. Im manily going to make apperance upgrades not performance upgrades. which in your opinion is the better car, and what is a good price to pay for one.ramee321Of course you want to upgrade it... cars can't be left alone these days, can they? :roll:
I vote Mazda RX-7 FD3S. Rotary engines do have their problems, but if you invest some money you can vastly improve reliabilty and improve performance at the same time. They really are unique vehicles.
You can't improve reliability AND performance by only investing some money. It'll only be one or the other.I vote Mazda RX-7 FD3S. Rotary engines do have their problems, but if you invest some money you can vastly improve reliabilty and improve performance at the same time. They really are unique vehicles.
RmanForLife
[QUOTE="RmanForLife"]You can't improve reliability AND performance by only investing some money. It'll only be one or the other. Well of course it will take time (time is money right? lol) and skill if you do it yourself, but you can improve both, but only to a certain degree of course. Obviously you cant do a 400+ rwhp build and retain reliability, but 300hp with some reliability improvements is possible. FD's are so incredibly choked up from the factory its almost depressing, but then again most cars are. It just saddens me when I see pictures on the internet of rotary owners who increase the boost up to 15psi with a stock radiator, intercooler, and a stock ECU, and thus blow an apex seal.I vote Mazda RX-7 FD3S. Rotary engines do have their problems, but if you invest some money you can vastly improve reliabilty and improve performance at the same time. They really are unique vehicles.
Infinite-Zr0
I have a mid 1990's Trans Am, with the vette LT1 engine.I'm sixteen getting my first car soon. i love cars that have upgradablity. i havent drove a am yet but drove the 3000gt this weekend and loved it. Had great pickup and awsome handling. Im manily going to make apperance upgrades not performance upgrades. which in your opinion is the better car, and what is a good price to pay for one.
ramee321
The car is a blast to drive and looks great too. But be warned that they are very hard to work on and are also expensive to maintain.
My 0-60mph times are around 5.4 seconds with a top speed around 160mph. I have the Ram-Air edition, so that nets me an extra 25 horsepower or so for a total of 315hp.
If you get one, I recommend getting a 1998 or higher as they have the corvette LS1 engine rated at 315-325 horsepower stock and are much more reliable, but my car has been rock solid for me. It is not my primary car.
Edit: Just wanted to mention I have the 6 speed manual transmission. This nets around 24 mpg highway, which is incredible for such a large engine and setup.
I'm sixteen getting my first car soon. i love cars that have upgradablity. i havent drove a am yet but drove the 3000gt this weekend and loved it. Had great pickup and awsome handling. Im manily going to make apperance upgrades not performance upgrades. which in your opinion is the better car, and what is a good price to pay for one.
ramee321
My advice on sportscars is to only get the top model of the car. Otherwise it just isn't worth it. So for the 3000GT, make sure it's the VR-4 model. For the TransAM, make sure it'sa V8 model at least.
Most important of all is to know that you can (financially)maintain the car. Everything about them (gas, tires, insurance, etc) is more expensive. I had an '02 Mustang Cobra convertible until 2007 when a girl rear-ended me at a stop light and totalled it :( . Great car and really fun, but it was expensive. It wassorta of a blessing thoughas my company bought me an SUV (with gas card) the next week :)
Every car in this thread is wayyyy to slow GioVela2010
Why and how are they slow? I have no need for doing 200 mph in a Corvette on the street. The main point of a car is to go from point A to point B. In the states we have laws that limit us from going at speeds like 120 mph and potentially killing innocent people or even ourselves. So a BMW,3000GT,Civic, or any other car in this topic will be great for that.
Ignore the VW suggestions.
Such a girls car
Ignore the VW suggestions.
Such a girls car
GioVela2010
Mr. W12 would like a word with you :P
[QUOTE="GioVela2010"]Every car in this thread is wayyyy to slow FUBAR24i think its time for you to leave :| do you really want to put a 16 year old behind the wheel of anything remotely fast
It's his job to remind everyone on that internet that he drives a $55K BMW.
i think its time for you to leave :| do you really want to put a 16 year old behind the wheel of anything remotely fast[QUOTE="FUBAR24"][QUOTE="GioVela2010"]Every car in this thread is wayyyy to slow blaaah
It's his job to remind everyone on that internet that he drives a $55K BMW.
Where can I apply for said job?i think its time for you to leave :| do you really want to put a 16 year old behind the wheel of anything remotely fast[QUOTE="FUBAR24"][QUOTE="GioVela2010"]Every car in this thread is wayyyy to slow blaaah
It's his job to remind everyone on that internet that he drives a $55K BMW.
Doesn't everybody on the internet drive a $50K + car, earn over $150k a year, and live in a 3k sqft home?
[QUOTE="blaaah"][QUOTE="FUBAR24"] i think its time for you to leave :| do you really want to put a 16 year old behind the wheel of anything remotely fastInfinite-Zr0
It's his job to remind everyone on that internet that he drives a $55K BMW.
Where can I apply for said job?That's the best part, no application required! Just say you own one. It's the internet, afterall, you could just be making it all up. Who would know?
The important thing is that you impress people you will never meet.
[QUOTE="blaaah"][QUOTE="FUBAR24"] i think its time for you to leave :| do you really want to put a 16 year old behind the wheel of anything remotely fastInfinite-Zr0
It's his job to remind everyone on that internet that he drives a $55K BMW.
Where can I apply for said job? step one go to google.com step two google search a car thats beliveable but still extremely amazing step three upload those photos into image shack or photobuckets so noone can trace your source Profit[QUOTE="GioVela2010"]so are a lot of BMWs :| i mean have you seen the 1 series or the Z4. hell any 3 series convertible just screams chick carIgnore the VW suggestions.
Such a girls car
FUBAR24
I like the 3 series BMW :(
so are a lot of BMWs :| i mean have you seen the 1 series or the Z4. hell any 3 series convertible just screams chick car[QUOTE="FUBAR24"][QUOTE="GioVela2010"]
Ignore the VW suggestions.
Such a girls car
bigblunt537
I like the 3 series BMW :(
i didnt say all. just the convertibles[QUOTE="bigblunt537"][QUOTE="FUBAR24"] so are a lot of BMWs :| i mean have you seen the 1 series or the Z4. hell any 3 series convertible just screams chick carFUBAR24
I like the 3 series BMW :(
i didnt say all. just the convertiblesand I like convertibles :cry:
[QUOTE="blaaah"]
[QUOTE="FUBAR24"] i think its time for you to leave :| do you really want to put a 16 year old behind the wheel of anything remotely fastLosDaddie
It's his job to remind everyone on that internet that he drives a $55K BMW.
Doesn't everybody on the internet drive a $50K + car, earn over $150k a year, and live in a 3k sqft home?
I don't. I just live in a nice apartment. Altho rent is $1700 a month, and it overlooks a Baseball Stadium
i didnt say all. just the convertibles[QUOTE="FUBAR24"][QUOTE="bigblunt537"]
I like the 3 series BMW :(
bigblunt537
and I like convertibles :cry:
I hate convertibles. A/C > Top Down
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