I'm so tired of this liberal crap.

Every now and then in the media or in off topic i see people saying how capitalism is killing america and how we need this "Change" to get us out of the hole. People fail to understand that our country became so great with private owned companys bringing all they have to the table to compete with one another. It's healthy competition and in most cases its good for everyone. I really cant begin to tell all the little things i hear and how ideotic they sound but i'd really like to hear how you liberals and who ever else wanna tell me that we need some change. I realise were not perfect in any shape or form. Its been almost two months since the BP disaster and Obama has been denying all kinds of help and just been showing his face everywhere. I'm so sick and tired of it. What happened to the great America where we were all one and were freaking UNITED? Where are the true americans today? Iam 28 years old and i haven't seen to much in my life but i do know this is not the America i was born into.

Yes, all liberals clearly hate our country. :roll:

What happened to the great America where we were all one and were freaking UNITED?

Kokuro_Kun

That would be, well, never. :P

Yes, all liberals clearly hate our country. :roll:

PeaceChild90

The great America where we were all "one and united" is a myth. People have been arguing over one thing or another since the first two human beings met.

The only thing I'm tired of is the constant bickering in Congress. It's their job to work together and yet, they divide among party lines every time. So, i guess, I'm tired of liberal and conservative crap.

I think we're more united now, than before 9/11 though.

I think we're more united now, than before 9/11 though.

Shadow4020

Kinda depends what metric you use. I would say that the political parties are certainly more united than they were half a century ago, but not the American public.

I think conservatives are ruining this country. Everything they don't like they simply say its socialist.PanchoVillacie

Does no one see where our country has gone in the last 2 years? Please tell me how this Obama care will be good for our country... PLEASE....Kokuro_Kun

What specifically in the health care reform law will be detrimental to America? I'm curious.

Every now and then in the media or in off topic i see people saying how capitalism is killing america and how we need this "Change" to get us out of the hole. People fail to understand that our country became so great with private owned companys bringing all they have to the table to compete with one another.

Kokuro_Kun

You think so? Look up 'Company Towns' for a quick history in Capitalism-run-amok in the U.S.. You know...work for us for $1 a day but you have to live in the company town and pay rent at the rate of $2 a day. As the song goes:

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]Does no one see where our country has gone in the last 2 years? Please tell me how this Obama care will be good for our country... PLEASE....GabuEx

What specifically in the health care reform law will be detrimental to America? I'm curious.

[QUOTE="PanchoVillacie"]I think conservatives are ruining this country. Everything they don't like they simply say its socialist.Kokuro_Kun

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]

Every now and then in the media or in off topic i see people saying how capitalism is killing america and how we need this "Change" to get us out of the hole. People fail to understand that our country became so great with private owned companys bringing all they have to the table to compete with one another.

br0kenrabbit

You think so? Look up 'Company Towns' for a quick history in Capitalism-run-amok in the U.S.. You know...work for us for $1 a day but you have to live in the company town and pay rent at the rate of $2 a day. As the song goes:

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt

Does no one see where our country has gone in the last 2 years? Please tell me how this Obama care will be good for our country... PLEASE....Kokuro_Kun

Here's what I see:

Bill Clinton left office with an 800 BILLION surplus.

George Bush Jr., his successor, left office with a 1,000 BILLION DEFICIT

Obama currently holds a 1,200 BILLION DEFICIT, 1,000B of which was inheretied from Bush.

So go figure how Obama is spending so liberally when Bush Jr. inhereted a record surplus and ended up with record deficits?

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"][QUOTE="PanchoVillacie"]I think conservatives are ruining this country. Everything they don't like they simply say its socialist.SgtKevali

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]

Every now and then in the media or in off topic i see people saying how capitalism is killing america and how we need this "Change" to get us out of the hole. People fail to understand that our country became so great with private owned companys bringing all they have to the table to compete with one another.

br0kenrabbit

You think so? Look up 'Company Towns' for a quick history in Capitalism-run-amok in the U.S.. You know...work for us for $1 a day but you have to live in the company town and pay rent at the rate of $2 a day. As the song goes:

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]Does no one see where our country has gone in the last 2 years? Please tell me how this Obama care will be good for our country... PLEASE....Kokuro_Kun

What specifically in the health care reform law will be detrimental to America? I'm curious.

Whose forcing you to work there?

Mafiree

You can't quit when you owe the company. Really, look it up. Those bastards were nasty. Here's a little random snippet of 'cost-cutting':

Miners were also denied their proper pay through a system known as cribbing. Workers were paid based on tons of coal mined. Each car brought from the mines supposedly held a specific amount of coal, such as 2,000 pounds. However, cars were altered to hold more coal than the specified amount, so miners would be paid for 2,000 pounds when they actually had brought in 2,500. In addition, workers were docked pay for slate and rock mixed in with the coal. Since docking was a judgment on the part of the checkweighman, miners were frequently cheated.

Oh, and if you tried to unionize or take them to court, they'd just right-out kill your ass dead. And since they owned the police, no one would care.

If you're so sure of Capitalism as you seem to be you should know all this, because it's basic study in high-school economy. At least it was in the early 90's. :?

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]Does no one see where our country has gone in the last 2 years? Please tell me how this Obama care will be good for our country... PLEASE....br0kenrabbit

Here's what I see:

Bill Clinton left office with an 800 BILLION surplus.

George Bush Jr., his successor, left office with a 1,000 BILLION DEFICIT

Obama currently holds a 1,200 BILLION DEFICIT, 1,000B of which was inheretied from Bush.

So go figure how Obama is spending so liberally when Bush Jr. inhereted a record surplus and ended up with record deficits?

Because there is no money to pay for it, taxes will be raised super high on EVERYONE with a paycheck or social security check, Obama care is rationed and managed. You will have to pay for it but the government will decide if you get any healthcare. That's how socialized medicine works....there isn't enough for everyone so the government will decide who lives and who dies. And if you are just thinking the elderly, think again. If you get a disease, you may just find out you get no treatment no matter what age you are.Kokuro_Kun

No money to pay for it? The CBO estimates that over the next twenty years, the health care reform bill not only will not make the deficit worse, but in fact will improve it on the order of one-quarter to one-half of the American GDP.

As for the government deciding if you get any health care, I might note that health care and health care insurance is still provided by all private companies - the public option did not make it into the final bill - and that the only thing that the government has done is require that everyone have health insurance, to provide help for those who are financially unable to get it, and to eliminate recission based on pre-existing conditions.

Out of curiosity, could you tell me where you got your information on the health care law?

As a quick and dirty refresher on how "united" the US was in the early days, I'll point you to Gangs of New York. Not the best movie, but it does a decent job of showing how the US was in the early days.

Capitalism is great. It brings competition to the table. Like how imports came in and bankrupted our car companies. Or how all of our technology is now created in Japan and built in China. Or how our own banks bankrupted us.

You can say whatever you want, but conservative minds have never had an impact on this country as much as liberal minds. Democrats aren't perfect, God knows we try, but I'll take the Democratic camp over the Republican conservatives any day.

Our country is built of all different types of people and they came here on the slave boats of white people and from running over the border and on boats so many years ago.

There's nothing wrong with being conservative, to a point, but it doesn't really lead to much progress throughout history.

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]

Every now and then in the media or in off topic i see people saying how capitalism is killing america and how we need this "Change" to get us out of the hole. People fail to understand that our country became so great with private owned companys bringing all they have to the table to compete with one another.

Kokuro_Kun

You think so? Look up 'Company Towns' for a quick history in Capitalism-run-amok in the U.S.. You know...work for us for $1 a day but you have to live in the company town and pay rent at the rate of $2 a day. As the song goes:

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt

you sir, have just made me laugh like i have never laughed before. oh, and i am a liberal who hates obama, if that makes any difference to you.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]Because there is no money to pay for it, taxes will be raised super high on EVERYONE with a paycheck or social security check, Obama care is rationed and managed. You will have to pay for it but the government will decide if you get any healthcare. That's how socialized medicine works....there isn't enough for everyone so the government will decide who lives and who dies. And if you are just thinking the elderly, think again. If you get a disease, you may just find out you get no treatment no matter what age you are.Kokuro_Kun

As GabuEx said, this is all highly dubious, because healthcare is still being provided, and will continue to be provided, by private insurance companies.

Yawn. Why can't we just say both parties have their idiots and call it a day?majoras_wrath

because that'd be too easy...

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]Does no one see where our country has gone in the last 2 years? Please tell me how this Obama care will be good for our country... PLEASE....Kokuro_Kun

Here's what I see:

Bill Clinton left office with an 800 BILLION surplus.

George Bush Jr., his successor, left office with a 1,000 BILLION DEFICIT

Obama currently holds a 1,200 BILLION DEFICIT, 1,000B of which was inheretied from Bush.

So go figure how Obama is spending so liberally when Bush Jr. inhereted a record surplus and ended up with record deficits?

You mean the war we invaded to capture the enemies Weapons of Mass Destruction? How'd that work out? And yeah, Bush didn't wait 57 days to fix Katrina, he just didn't fix it period.

Oh, here's the chart.

[QUOTE="Mafiree"]Whose forcing you to work there?

br0kenrabbit

You can't quit when you owe the company. Really, look it up. Those bastards were nasty. Here's a little random snippet of 'cost-cutting':

Miners were also denied their proper pay through a system known as cribbing. Workers were paid based on tons of coal mined. Each car brought from the mines supposedly held a specific amount of coal, such as 2,000 pounds. However, cars were altered to hold more coal than the specified amount, so miners would be paid for 2,000 pounds when they actually had brought in 2,500. In addition, workers were docked pay for slate and rock mixed in with the coal. Since docking was a judgment on the part of the checkweighman, miners were frequently cheated.

Oh, and if you tried to unionize or take them to court, they'd just right-out kill your ass dead. And since they owned the police, no one would care.

If you're so sure of Capitalism as you seem to be you should know all this, because it's basic study in high-school economy. At least it was in the early 90's. :?

Every now and then in the media or in off topic i see people saying how capitalism is killing america and how we need this "Change" to get us out of the hole. People fail to understand that our country became so great with private owned companys bringing all they have to the table to compete with one another. It's healthy competition and in most cases its good for everyone. I really cant begin to tell all the little things i hear and how ideotic they sound but i'd really like to hear how you liberals and who ever else wanna tell me that we need some change. I realise were not perfect in any shape or form. Its been almost two months since the BP disaster and Obama has been denying all kinds of help and just been showing his face everywhere. I'm so sick and tired of it. What happened to the great America where we were all one and were freaking UNITED? Where are the true americans today? Iam 28 years old and i haven't seen to much in my life but i do know this is not the America i was born into.

Kokuro_Kun

Times and people change. Todays America isn't the America of the 1950's or the 1850's or the 1770's.

I don't trust companies, simple as that. I trust the government far more than a multi trilliondollar corporation that wouldn't mind burning down the world to stay in the black. And when they screw up, I expect them to be punished. Why should a corporation be above the law or more important than the people? If I break the law, I get in trouble. If a corporation breaks the law we just need to hope the free market magically punishes them, which is proven to basically not happen to large companies because they can pay to keep things quiet.

Personally I'm all for socialism and would love that change, but I accept it won't happen in my lifetime.

Also partisan politics is what happened to the United America. Both liberals and conservatives are to blame.

As GabuEx said, this is all highly dubious, because healthcare is still being provided, and will continue to be provided, by private insurance companies.

PannicAtack

Well to be precise (I edited my post after realizing it was worded sillily), health care insurance is provided by private insurance companies; the insurance companies do not employ doctors and nurses. :P

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]Because there is no money to pay for it, taxes will be raised super high on EVERYONE with a paycheck or social security check, Obama care is rationed and managed. You will have to pay for it but the government will decide if you get any healthcare. That's how socialized medicine works....there isn't enough for everyone so the government will decide who lives and who dies. And if you are just thinking the elderly, think again. If you get a disease, you may just find out you get no treatment no matter what age you are.GabuEx

No money to pay for it? The CBO estimates that over the next twenty years, the health care reform bill not only will not make the deficit worse, but in fact will improve it on the order of one-quarter to one-half of the American GDP.

As for the government deciding if you get any health care, I might note that health care is still provided by all private insurance companies - the public option did not make it into the final bill - and that the only thing that the government has done is require that everyone have health insurance, to provide help for those who are financially unable to get it, and to eliminate recission based on pre-existing conditions.

I mean no offense, but could you tell me where you got your information on the health care law?

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="Mafiree"]Whose forcing you to work there?

Mafiree

You can't quit when you owe the company. Really, look it up. Those bastards were nasty. Here's a little random snippet of 'cost-cutting':

Miners were also denied their proper pay through a system known as cribbing. Workers were paid based on tons of coal mined. Each car brought from the mines supposedly held a specific amount of coal, such as 2,000 pounds. However, cars were altered to hold more coal than the specified amount, so miners would be paid for 2,000 pounds when they actually had brought in 2,500. In addition, workers were docked pay for slate and rock mixed in with the coal. Since docking was a judgment on the part of the checkweighman, miners were frequently cheated.

Oh, and if you tried to unionize or take them to court, they'd just right-out kill your ass dead. And since they owned the police, no one would care.

If you're so sure of Capitalism as you seem to be you should know all this, because it's basic study in high-school economy. At least it was in the early 90's. :?

It most certainly is a Capitalism problem. Seriously, take a class on Capitalism and I promise you these company towns will be discussed as an example of unregulated capitalism. If you haven't taken capitalism before, why even comment?

According to Louisiana voters Bush did a better job handling Katrina than Obama with BP http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/16/louisiana-voters-obama-performance-oil-spill-worse-bush-katrina/Mafiree

i was interested in clicking this, until i saw the fox news part.

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]

Every now and then in the media or in off topic i see people saying how capitalism is killing america and how we need this "Change" to get us out of the hole. People fail to understand that our country became so great with private owned companys bringing all they have to the table to compete with one another.

Kokuro_Kun

You think so? Look up 'Company Towns' for a quick history in Capitalism-run-amok in the U.S.. You know...work for us for $1 a day but you have to live in the company town and pay rent at the rate of $2 a day. As the song goes:

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt

The AK-47 was made in the USSR and it blew everything out of the water at its time in costs, firepower and reliability. I think there are even stories of American troops in the Vietnam war who threw away their relatively new M16 rifles for the AK-47s found on Vietcong soldiers.

According to Louisiana voters Bush did a better job handling Katrina than Obama with BP http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/16/louisiana-voters-obama-performance-oil-spill-worse-bush-katrina/Mafiree

Asking people to compare a current event to a past event is always a bad idea, as the human brain naturally remembers mostly the good of past events, but is well aware of the bad of current events. This is exactly what led people to claim that Bush was the worst and most tyrannical president ever. I'm surprised it's only 50-35, frankly.

[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

You can't quit when you owe the company. Really, look it up. Those bastards were nasty. Here's a little random snippet of 'cost-cutting':

Miners were also denied their proper pay through a system known as cribbing. Workers were paid based on tons of coal mined. Each car brought from the mines supposedly held a specific amount of coal, such as 2,000 pounds. However, cars were altered to hold more coal than the specified amount, so miners would be paid for 2,000 pounds when they actually had brought in 2,500. In addition, workers were docked pay for slate and rock mixed in with the coal. Since docking was a judgment on the part of the checkweighman, miners were frequently cheated.

Oh, and if you tried to unionize or take them to court, they'd just right-out kill your ass dead. And since they owned the police, no one would care.

If you're so sure of Capitalism as you seem to be you should know all this, because it's basic study in high-school economy. At least it was in the early 90's. :?

br0kenrabbit

It most certainly is a Capitalism problem. Seriously, take a class on Capitalism and I promise you these company towns will be discussed as an example of unregulated capitalism. If you haven't taken capitalism before, why even comment?

[QUOTE="Mafiree"]According to Louisiana voters Bush did a better job handling Katrina than Obama with BP http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/16/louisiana-voters-obama-performance-oil-spill-worse-bush-katrina/IronBeaver

i was interested in clicking this, until i saw the fox news part.

The AK-47 was made in the USSR and it blew everything out of the water at its time in costs, firepower and reliability. I think there are even stories of American troops in the Vietnam war who threw away their relatively new M16 rifles for the AK-47s found on Vietcong soldiers.

Vesica_Prime

And then, as thanks, Mr. Kalashnikov got... absolutely nothing for his efforts, one of the primary reasons why innovation dies without capitalism. :P

[QUOTE="IronBeaver"]

[QUOTE="Mafiree"]According to Louisiana voters Bush did a better job handling Katrina than Obama with BP http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/16/louisiana-voters-obama-performance-oil-spill-worse-bush-katrina/Kokuro_Kun

i was interested in clicking this, until i saw the fox news part.

well not 100% of the time. :P

[QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

The AK-47 was made in the USSR and it blew everything out of the water at its time in costs, firepower and reliability. I think there are even stories of American troops in the Vietnam war who threw away their relatively new M16 rifles for the AK-47s found on Vietcong soldiers.

GabuEx

And then, as thanks, Mr. Kalashnikov got... absolutely nothing for his efforts, one of the primary reasons why innovation dies without capitalism. :P

True, however I was just giving an example of innovation without capatilism. Not debating about the moral dilemmas of what Mr. Kalashnikov got for his efforts.

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"][QUOTE="IronBeaver"]

i was interested in clicking this, until i saw the fox news part.

IronBeaver

well not 100% of the time. :P

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Kokuro_Kun"]Because there is no money to pay for it, taxes will be raised super high on EVERYONE with a paycheck or social security check, Obama care is rationed and managed. You will have to pay for it but the government will decide if you get any healthcare. That's how socialized medicine works....there isn't enough for everyone so the government will decide who lives and who dies. And if you are just thinking the elderly, think again. If you get a disease, you may just find out you get no treatment no matter what age you are.Kokuro_Kun

No money to pay for it? The CBO estimates that over the next twenty years, the health care reform bill not only will not make the deficit worse, but in fact will improve it on the order of one-quarter to one-half of the American GDP.

As for the government deciding if you get any health care, I might note that health care is still provided by all private insurance companies - the public option did not make it into the final bill - and that the only thing that the government has done is require that everyone have health insurance, to provide help for those who are financially unable to get it, and to eliminate recission based on pre-existing conditions.

I mean no offense, but could you tell me where you got your information on the health care law?