Does God command what is good because it is good?

Or is it good because God commands it?

If you do not believe in God, then for the sake of discussion assume that if God existed he would be all-loving.

I have gone back and forth on this issue. For a long time I believed that God commanded what was good because it was good, but this view does seem to limit what God is. Now I am more of the persuasion that is not a question at all because God and the good are so intrinsically one and the same, and therefore the highest good is God, so he commands what is his nature. It is neither more good before or after he commands it.

If God is the source of anything but "the good" than anything he commands could be either good or bad.

If there is a God; if there is such a thing as a "good" action in an objective sense; and if God commands us to do all that which is good, then I cannot imagine anything but that being because it is good. Otherwise, one would necessarily have to accept the idea that wanton murder would become good if God so chose to command us to do so. Of course, one could say, "God would never do that; that is an evil action," but this is an implicit affirmation that an action is good or evil external to whether or not God commands us to do it.

If there is a God; if there is such a thing as a "good" action in an objective sense; and if God commands us to do all that which is good, then I cannot imagine anything but that being because it is good. Otherwise, one would necessarily have to accept the idea that wanton murder would become good if God so chose to command us to do so. Of course, one could say, "God would never do that; that is an evil action," but this is an implicit affirmation that an action is good or evil external to whether or not God commands us to do it.

GabuEx

Someone took Philosophy.

I guess the problem with this question is the notion that God commands every action. We cannot possibly answer whether or not God commands anything good or evil with out first knowing what an external God is. I say external because, and I'm just recalling from memory, recent brain research suggests, thoughts of God are really just empathic impulses to the world around us, which some symbolize through a God figure.

Perhaps you should read the Old Testament if you think "God" commanded things because they were good.

I think this could be seen in another light, as well: if an action is good because God commands it, then what does it mean for an action to be "good"? If an action is good implies that God commanded it, then all that one has done is define "good" to be "that which God commands". In this light, saying "God commands that which is good" is saying nothing more than "God commands that which God commands", which is obviously a meaningless tautology. Such a view effectively affirms the nonexistence of an objective morality, in fact: nothing is "good" in the abstract; there is only that which God does or does not command.

There is nothing in the bible that suggests that god commands good actions from people since man has been given free will. A Christian would argue that people perform acts of good because we are created in god's image. I would argue that if you are going to give god credit for everything that is 'good' then he must also be responsible for every 'bad' or 'evil'. You might argue that satan is responsible for everything evil. Well, if god is all knowing he must have known when he created the universe that he was creating a universe full of evil and suffering. If he is all powerful then he should have the power to stop what is evil.

Good and evil are relative points of view that come from humans. What one person sees as good another person may not. The idea of a god is a horrible idea. To believe that there is a god watching us, supervising us, commanding us, judging us, is to believe that we are abject slaves. It means that we never have a private moment to ourselves. It means that every thought that comes from your head is being judged.It's an immoral belief. It's a belief that says we must love this dictator but also fear him. It is a master/slave relationship. It is Sadomasochism. If we are going to progress as a species, we really need to grow up out of this someday, you know.

If there is a God; if there is such a thing as a "good" action in an objective sense; and if God commands us to do all that which is good, then I cannot imagine anything but that being because it is good. Otherwise, one would necessarily have to accept the idea that wanton murder would become good if God so chose to command us to do so. Of course, one could say, "God would never do that; that is an evil action," but this is an implicit affirmation that an action is good or evil external to whether or not God commands us to do it.

GabuEx

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

If there is a God; if there is such a thing as a "good" action in an objective sense; and if God commands us to do all that which is good, then I cannot imagine anything but that being because it is good. Otherwise, one would necessarily have to accept the idea that wanton murder would become good if God so chose to command us to do so. Of course, one could say, "God would never do that; that is an evil action," but this is an implicit affirmation that an action is good or evil external to whether or not God commands us to do it.

jeremiah06

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

Ah yes, the Eythyphro dilemma. Anyway, I'm not sure that the question is philosophically answerable, even presupposing a God and objective morality exist.

Or is it good because God commands it?

If you do not believe in God, then for the sake of discussion assume that if God existed he would be all-loving.

I have gone back and forth on this issue. For a long time I believed that God commanded what was good because it was good, but this view does seem to limit what God is. Now I am more of the persuasion that is not a question at all because God and the good are so intrinsically one and the same, and therefore the highest good is God, so he commands what is his nature. It is neither more good before or after he commands it.

Acemaster27

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

If there is a God; if there is such a thing as a "good" action in an objective sense; and if God commands us to do all that which is good, then I cannot imagine anything but that being because it is good. Otherwise, one would necessarily have to accept the idea that wanton murder would become good if God so chose to command us to do so. Of course, one could say, "God would never do that; that is an evil action," but this is an implicit affirmation that an action is good or evil external to whether or not God commands us to do it.

GabuEx

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

Assuming that God exists, and that what he commands us to do is always morally "good," (irrespective of whether they are good because he commands them or because they by mere correlation are moral) then yes.

My favorite God is a wrathful one.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] I understand the ramifications of such thoughts but I believe "good" is because God commands it... Thus any action God asks of us is by nature good.coolbeans90

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

Assuming that God exists, and that what he commands us to do is always morally "good," (irrespective of whether they are good because he commands them or because they by mere correlation are moral) then yes.

The question was not so much asking "Would it be morally good, assuming that anything God commands is morally good?" - that much is obvious - but rather asking what he would do about it if God were to command that.

There is nothing in the bible that suggests that god commands good actions from people since man has been given free will. A Christian would argue that people perform acts of good because we are created in god's image. I would argue that if you are going to give god credit for everything that is 'good' then he must also be responsible for every 'bad' or 'evil'. You might argue that satan is responsible for everything evil. Well, if god is all knowing he must have known when he created the universe that he was creating a universe full of evil and suffering. If he is all powerful then he should have the power to stop what is evil.

Good and evil are relative points of view that come from humans. What one person sees as good another person may not. The idea of a god is a horrible idea. To believe that there is a god watching us, supervising us, commanding us, judging us, is to believe that we are abject slaves. It means that we never have a private moment to ourselves. It means that every thought that comes from your head is being judged.It's an immoral belief. It's a belief that says we must love this dictator but also fear him. It is a master/slave relationship. It is Sadomasochism. If we are going to progress as a species, we really need to grow up out of this someday, you know.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

GabuEx

Assuming that God exists, and that what he commands us to do is always morally "good," (irrespective of whether they are good because he commands them or because they by mere correlation are moral) then yes.

The question was not so much asking "Would it be morally good, assuming that anything God commands is morally good?" - that much is obvious - but rather asking what he would do about it if God were to command that.

Well, that would answer more about his opinion of said definition of "good" than anything regarding the Euthyphro dilemma.

God don't command s***.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Assuming that God exists, and that what he commands us to do is always morally "good," (irrespective of whether they are good because he commands them or because they by mere correlation are moral) then yes.

coolbeans90

The question was not so much asking "Would it be morally good, assuming that anything God commands is morally good?" - that much is obvious - but rather asking what he would do about it if God were to command that.

Well, that would answer more about his opinion of said definition of "good" than anything regarding the Euthyphro dilemma.

Considering that the Euthyphro dilemma is basically as a whole a covert question about the definition of "good", that doesn't seem too off-topic to me. :P

people create what is good, and to even add more POWER to these people want they use word of God in it name to get what they want.

But

it's truely you who says it's good or not.

Is it really that hard to understand stealing objects or soul's from soemone else is wrong?

is it really hard to understand your own feeling and not someone else?

live your life by what you truely believe is right and wrong and not someone else. Please you do your self a favor and others

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

If there is a God; if there is such a thing as a "good" action in an objective sense; and if God commands us to do all that which is good, then I cannot imagine anything but that being because it is good. Otherwise, one would necessarily have to accept the idea that wanton murder would become good if God so chose to command us to do so. Of course, one could say, "God would never do that; that is an evil action," but this is an implicit affirmation that an action is good or evil external to whether or not God commands us to do it.

GabuEx

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] I understand the ramifications of such thoughts but I believe "good" is because God commands it... Thus any action God asks of us is by nature good.jeremiah06

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

So this begs the question:

Is god perfect?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] I understand the ramifications of such thoughts but I believe "good" is because God commands it... Thus any action God asks of us is by nature good.jeremiah06

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

But that only works if you assume "good" to be external of God.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] I understand the ramifications of such thoughts but I believe "good" is because God commands it... Thus any action God asks of us is by nature good.jeremiah06

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

If anything and everything can be arbitrarily good simply because God said so, then why would God not command such a thing?

And along those same lines, why would you hope that God does not command such a thing? Surely if God did command it, then it would be good to do it, and you could then celebrate carrying out God's will just as much as today, no?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] I understand the ramifications of such thoughts but I believe "good" is because God commands it... Thus any action God asks of us is by nature good.jeremiah06

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

But what if you're part of a religion that believes God WOULD and SHOULD command such a thing...then you've got a great case against religion. At this point it just becomes an argument of whether it's possible that religion actually makes normal, decent people do things you would not normally do out of common decency.

I heard a great quote once and it went something like this: "good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do a bad thing, it takes religion."

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] I understand the ramifications of such thoughts but I believe "good" is because God commands it... Thus any action God asks of us is by nature good.jeremiah06

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

.

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

GabuEx

If anything and everything can be arbitrarily good simply because God said so, then why would God not command such a thing?

And along those same lines, why would you hope that God does not command such a thing? Surely if God did command it, then it would be good to do it, and you could then celebrate carrying out God's will just as much as today, no?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] It's the right thing to do then... However, as a followers of God we have faith that God would never command such a thing... jeremiah06

If anything and everything can be arbitrarily good simply because God said so, then why would God not command such a thing?

And along those same lines, why would you hope that God does not command such a thing? Surely if God did command it, then it would be good to do it, and you could then celebrate carrying out God's will just as much as today, no?

Certainly, God is outside of time, but surely God is capable of deciding that after this particular point in what we perceive as time, murder is now morally proper, and surely that would be good for him to do, since he is God. On what basis would God be restrained from doing so, if indeed everything he does is good by virtue of his having done it?

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Then, as I said, what if God commanded us to commit wanton murder?

cheezisgoooood

But what if you're part of a religion that believes God WOULD and SHOULD command such a thing...then you've got a great case against religion. At this point it just becomes an argument of whether it's possible that religion actually makes normal, decent people do things you would not normally do out of common decency.

I heard a great quote once and it went something like this: "good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do a bad thing, it takes religion."

[QUOTE="cheezisgoooood"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"]It's the right thing to do then... However, as a followers of God we have faith that God would never command such a thing... jeremiah06

But what if you're part of a religion that believes God WOULD and SHOULD command such a thing...then you've got a great case against religion. At this point it just becomes an argument of whether it's possible that religion actually makes normal, decent people do things you would not normally do out of common decency.

I heard a great quote once and it went something like this: "good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do a bad thing, it takes religion."

Read my bold.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

The question was not so much asking "Would it be morally good, assuming that anything God commands is morally good?" - that much is obvious - but rather asking what he would do about it if God were to command that.

GabuEx

Well, that would answer more about his opinion of said definition of "good" than anything regarding the Euthyphro dilemma.

Considering that the Euthyphro dilemma is basically as a whole a covert question about the definition of "good", that doesn't seem too off-topic to me. :P

I'm not saying it is off-topic, and I'd hardly classify the Euthyphro dilemma being remotely covert in its approach to defining good. :p However, what one would do in a certain situation doesn't inherently help confirm whether an action, according to an system of objective morality, is objectively moral because God commands it or vice-versa.

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

If anything and everything can be arbitrarily good simply because God said so, then why would God not command such a thing?

And along those same lines, why would you hope that God does not command such a thing? Surely if God did command it, then it would be good to do it, and you could then celebrate carrying out God's will just as much as today, no?

GabuEx

Certainly, God is outside of time, but surely God is capable of deciding that after this particular point in what we perceive as time, murder is now morally proper, and surely that would be good for him to do, since he is God. On what basis would God be restrained from doing so, if indeed everything he does is good by virtue of his having done it?

[QUOTE="cheezisgoooood"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] It's the right thing to do then... However, as a followers of God we have faith that God would never command such a thing... jeremiah06

But what if you're part of a religion that believes God WOULD and SHOULD command such a thing...then you've got a great case against religion. At this point it just becomes an argument of whether it's possible that religion actually makes normal, decent people do things you would not normally do out of common decency.

I heard a great quote once and it went something like this: "good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do a bad thing, it takes religion."

Even if God commanded it?

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="cheezisgoooood"]

But what if you're part of a religion that believes God WOULD and SHOULD command such a thing...then you've got a great case against religion. At this point it just becomes an argument of whether it's possible that religion actually makes normal, decent people do things you would not normally do out of common decency.

I heard a great quote once and it went something like this: "good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do a bad thing, it takes religion."

cheezisgoooood

Read my bold.

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="cheezisgoooood"]

But what if you're part of a religion that believes God WOULD and SHOULD command such a thing...then you've got a great case against religion. At this point it just becomes an argument of whether it's possible that religion actually makes normal, decent people do things you would not normally do out of common decency.

I heard a great quote once and it went something like this: "good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do a bad thing, it takes religion."

coolbeans90

Even if God commanded it?

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] Faithful != mindless being a sane good willed person I wouldn't go murder mass people...jeremiah06

Even if God commanded it?

I still didnt get my question answered:

Is god perfect?

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Even if God commanded it?

DroidPhysX

I still didnt get my question answered:

Is god perfect?

Define "perfect."

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Even if God commanded it?

DroidPhysX

I still didnt get my question answered:

Is god perfect?

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] nojeremiah06

I still didnt get my question answered:

Is god perfect?

God can do anything, therefore he is perfect.

Thats where I'm getting at.

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

I still didnt get my question answered:

Is god perfect?

DroidPhysX

God can do anything, therefore he is perfect.

Thats where I'm getting at.

Perfect = capable of doing anything.

K.

Can God create a rock he cannot lift?

*leaves thread and watches from a distance*

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

I still didnt get my question answered:

Is god perfect?

DroidPhysX

God can do anything, therefore he is perfect.

Thats where I'm getting at.

Edit: lol I wrote that befoe I saw your edit...

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"] define perfectcoolbeans90

God can do anything, therefore he is perfect.

Thats where I'm getting at.

Perfect = capable of doing anything.

K.

Can God create a rock he cannot lift?

*leaves thread and watches from a distance*

The irritating part is that the question wasnt even directed at you...

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

God can do anything, therefore he is perfect.

Thats where I'm getting at.

DroidPhysX

Perfect = capable of doing anything.

K.

Can God create a rock he cannot lift?

*leaves thread and watches from a distance*

The irritating part is that the question wasnt even directed at you...

Irritated? ¿Por qué?

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Perfect = capable of doing anything.

K.

Can God create a rock he cannot lift?

*leaves thread and watches from a distance*

coolbeans90

The irritating part is that the question wasnt even directed at you...

Irritated? ¿Por qué?

This will probably be my last post in this thread, otherwise I would probably get modded from engaging in a childish argument.