Congress considers bill to strip American Terrorists of their Citizenship

Okay Congress is considering passing a bill that would allow the State Department to revoke the U.S. citizenship of people who are terrorists. This is not necessarily unprecedented, there is an active law from 1940 that allows the State Department to revoke U.S. citizenship of citizens who join an enemy army (and in 1980 the Supreme Court ruled that this law is constitutional saying certain acts indicate a rejection of U.S. citizenship on the part of the citizen).

Actually, the main proponent of this bill is one of my Senators: Joe Lieberman, he says it was the incident where Faisal Shahzad (also from my State of CT, which kind of scares me) tried to bomb Times Square in New York.

Your thoughts?

I kind of think some of it makes sense, if you could lose your citizenship for Joining The Nazi or Soviet Army why shouldn't members of Al Qaida lose their citizenship? But I do wonder about American terrorist groups like the Hutaree for example or what about lone wolf terrorists?

Sounds good to me. Hopefully they lose their citizenship by losing their lives though.

As long as taking away citizenship comes with proof of the person in question being a terrorist, there's no problem. But when terrorism is proven, what's the point of also taking away citizenship? I'm guessing they'll be spending life in jail anyways.

I'm a little nervous of such a thing. The last thing I want is the government having the power to revoke your citizenship by simply calling you a "terrorist". If some citizentries to commit an act of terrorism on this country and they are fairly tried and convicted, why not just sentence them to life in prison or something along those lines?

As long as taking away citizenship comes with proof of the person in question being a terrorist, there's no problem. But when terrorism is proven, what's the point of also taking away citizenship? I'm guessing they'll be spending life in jail anyways.

11Marcel

I'm a little nervous of such a thing. The last thing I want is the government having the power to revoke your citizenship by simply calling you a "terrorist". If some citizentries to commit an act of terrorism on this country and they are fairly tried and convicted, why not just sentence them to life in prison or something along those lines?

sonicare

Well, if an act of terrorism is explicitly waging war against the country, then that would be treason. Is treason grounds to revoke citizenship?PannicAtack

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."

in the history of the United States there have been fewer than 40 federal prosecutions for treason and even fewer convictions. Several men were convicted of treason in connection with the 1794 Whiskey Rebellion but were pardoned by President George Washington. One of American history's most notorious traitors, in which his name is considered synonymous with the definition of traitor, is Benedict Arnold. The most famous treason trial, that of Aaron Burr in 1807 (See Burr conspiracy), resulted in acquittal. Politically motivated attempts to convict opponents of the Jeffersonian Embargo Acts and the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 all failed. Most states have provisions in their constitutions or statutes similar to those in the U.S. Constitution. There have been only two successful prosecutions for treason on the state level, that of Thomas Dorr in Rhode Island and that of John Brown in Virginia.

Incomplete information in the original post. The proposal is that the government would have the ability to strip SUSPECTED terrorists of their citizenship. Think about that for a moment. American Citizens. Convicted of no crime. Being stripped of their citizenship at a whim with no trial. (And then probably being shipped down to Guantanamo like other non-citizens who are declared "enemy combatants") People should be TERRIFIED of this bill. nocoolnamejim

This seems like the negatives of applying it to someone to whom it shouldn't be applied far outweigh the positives of applying it to someone to whom it should. How do we define when someone is a terrorist? And how is this going to stop someone from committing a terrorist attack?

Only if there's a mountain of evidence and said person was not a natural born citizen, i.e an immigrant. That's the only way I would support such a bill.

There's already a thread on this, and apparently they can strip citizenship of suspected terrorists. Whole different story.Mochyc

Yeah, if terrorists lose their citizenship after they've been convicted in a fair trial, then fine. But the government should not be able to strip someone of citizenship just because you're suspected of something. It'd be like McCarthyism all over again.

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]Incomplete information in the original post. The proposal is that the government would have the ability to strip SUSPECTED terrorists of their citizenship. Think about that for a moment. American Citizens. Convicted of no crime. Being stripped of their citizenship at a whim with no trial. (And then probably being shipped down to Guantanamo like other non-citizens who are declared "enemy combatants") People should be TERRIFIED of this bill. Pirate700

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]Incomplete information in the original post. The proposal is that the government would have the ability to strip SUSPECTED terrorists of their citizenship. Think about that for a moment. American Citizens. Convicted of no crime. Being stripped of their citizenship at a whim with no trial. (And then probably being shipped down to Guantanamo like other non-citizens who are declared "enemy combatants") People should be TERRIFIED of this bill. nocoolnamejim

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]Are we sure that's what being proposed or is that someones twisted interpretation of it?

Pirate700

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Well, if an act of terrorism is explicitly waging war against the country, then that would be treason. Is treason grounds to revoke citizenship?whipassmt

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."

in the history of the United States there have been fewer than 40 federal prosecutions for treason and even fewer convictions. Several men were convicted of treason in connection with the 1794 Whiskey Rebellion but were pardoned by President George Washington. One of American history's most notorious traitors, in which his name is considered synonymous with the definition of traitor, is Benedict Arnold. The most famous treason trial, that of Aaron Burr in 1807 (See Burr conspiracy), resulted in acquittal. Politically motivated attempts to convict opponents of the Jeffersonian Embargo Acts and the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 all failed. Most states have provisions in their constitutions or statutes similar to those in the U.S. Constitution. There have been only two successful prosecutions for treason on the state level, that of Thomas Dorr in Rhode Island and that of John Brown in Virginia.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] By all means...don't take me at MY word. Here's House Republican Leader John Boehner on the subject. "If they are a U.S. citizen, until they are convicted of some crime, I don't see how you would attempt to take their citizenship away. That would be pretty difficult under the U.S. Constitution." When the House REPUBLICAN Leader thinks you've gone too far, I think it's safe to say that this is an insane idea and a non-starter.nocoolnamejim

Needs due process, not just the executive branch declaring someone a terroristxaos

That sounds like something a terrorist would say. :o

Incomplete information in the original post. The proposal is that the government would have the ability to strip SUSPECTED terrorists of their citizenship. Think about that for a moment. American Citizens. Convicted of no crime. Being stripped of their citizenship at a whim with no trial. (And then probably being shipped down to Guantanamo like other non-citizens who are declared "enemy combatants") People should be TERRIFIED of this bill. nocoolnamejim

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]Incomplete information in the original post. The proposal is that the government would have the ability to strip SUSPECTED terrorists of their citizenship. Think about that for a moment. American Citizens. Convicted of no crime. Being stripped of their citizenship at a whim with no trial. (And then probably being shipped down to Guantanamo like other non-citizens who are declared "enemy combatants") People should be TERRIFIED of this bill. sonicare

wait wait. So they are trying to pass a bill that can exile us?Jandurin

Well "they" at this point is pretty much Joe Lieberman, which is not surprising. I eagerly look forward to the day when that man leaves the Senate.

This only applies to immigrants correct?

That is idiotic, and won't happen.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]wait wait. So they are trying to pass a bill that can exile us?GabuEx

Well "they" at this point is pretty much Joe Lieberman, which is not surprising.

Oh jeez, I wonder what Alex Jones will say about this in his radio show, I can't wait to listen.

This only applies to immigrants correct?

Espada12

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]wait wait. So they are trying to pass a bill that can exile us?GabuEx

Well "they" at this point is pretty much Joe Lieberman, which is not surprising. I eagerly look forward to the day when that man leaves the Senate.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

This only applies to immigrants correct?

nocoolnamejim

... so what do they expect a natural born citizen to do?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]wait wait. So they are trying to pass a bill that can exile us?Pirate700

Well "they" at this point is pretty much Joe Lieberman, which is not surprising. I eagerly look forward to the day when that man leaves the Senate.

If it were not Joe Lieberman proposing this bill, I would agree that that could be a possibility. However... it is Joe Lieberman.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Well "they" at this point is pretty much Joe Lieberman, which is not surprising. I eagerly look forward to the day when that man leaves the Senate.

GabuEx

If it were not Joe Lieberman proposing this bill, I would agree that that could be a possibility. However... it is Joe Lieberman.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Well "they" at this point is pretty much Joe Lieberman, which is not surprising. I eagerly look forward to the day when that man leaves the Senate.

GabuEx

If it were not Joe Lieberman proposing this bill, I would agree that that could be a possibility. However... it is Joe Lieberman.

Can't wait until he is out of the senate

[QUOTE="xaos"]Needs due process, not just the executive branch declaring someone a terroristGabuEx

That sounds like something a terrorist would say. :o

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="xaos"]Needs due process, not just the executive branch declaring someone a terroristxaos

That sounds like something a terrorist would say. :o

Needs due process, not just the executive branch declaring someone a terroristxaos

That sounds like something a terrorist would say. :o

As long as he has checks against his power.Jandurin

The fact that even Republicans seem to think that this is kind of a bad idea is a pretty good check, I think. :P

I would imagine that the Supreme Court would also not find a law terribly amusing that allows the stripping of citizenship from basically whomever the State Department decides is a terrorist.

That sounds like something a terrorist would say. :o

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="xaos"]Needs due process, not just the executive branch declaring someone a terroristxaos

That sounds like something a terrorist would say. :o

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

That sounds like something a terrorist would say. :o

Jandurin

I did. :(

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="xaos"] Close, I'm a Cherorist! GabuEx

I did. :(

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]As long as he has checks against his power.GabuEx

The fact that even Republicans seem to think that this is kind of a bad idea is a pretty good check, I think. :P

I would imagine that the Supreme Court would also not find a law terribly amusing that allows the stripping of citizenship from basically whomever the State Department decides is a terrorist.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]As long as he has checks against his power.Pirate700

The fact that even Republicans seem to think that this is kind of a bad idea is a pretty good check, I think. :P

I would imagine that the Supreme Court would also not find a law terribly amusing that allows the stripping of citizenship from basically whomever the State Department decides is a terrorist.