Communism killed 94 million people in the 20th century

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#351 kingkong0124

Member since 2012 • 8329 Posts

lebron>>>>>>kobe not even close at this point-Sun_Tzu-

11 years ago

DroidPhysX

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#352 DroidPhysX

Member since 2010 • 17098 Posts

Lebron has been and will always be better than Kobe.

11 years ago

one_plum

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#353 one_plum

Member since 2009 • 6822 Posts

Lebron has been and will always be better than Kobe.DroidPhysX

Yeah, but Kobe is not a communist.

[spoiler] I'm still on topic, right? [/spoiler]

11 years ago

#354 deactivated-5b78379493e12

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Member since 2005 • 15625 Posts

This thread was awesome until it turned into a discussion about basketball.

:P

11 years ago

dave123321

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#355 dave123321

Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts

Is lai on a break again. I wonder

11 years ago

#356 deactivated-5b78379493e12

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Is lai on a break again. I wonder dave123321

Rage quit #2

11 years ago

DroidPhysX

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#357 DroidPhysX

Member since 2010 • 17098 Posts

Is lai on a break again. I wonder dave123321

New Ayn Rand magazines came in.

11 years ago

#358 deactivated-5b78379493e12

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[QUOTE="dave123321"]Is lai on a break again. I wonder DroidPhysX

New Ayn Rand magazines came in.

AynRand vs Pokemon Rule 34

11 years ago

dave123321

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#359 dave123321

Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts

He has been on my forum today, so he is around.

11 years ago

Heil68

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#360 Heil68

Member since 2004 • 60723 Posts

Lebron has been and will always be better than Kobe.DroidPhysX

This is true.

11 years ago

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#361 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

the shell company has literally paid assassins to kill officials in nigeria.
Justify that lai.
MakeMeaSammitch

That has nothing to do with Objectivism or libertarianism. What is your point?

11 years ago

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#362 lo_Pine

Member since 2012 • 4978 Posts

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]
the shell company has literally paid assassins to kill officials in nigeria.
Justify that lai.
Laihendi

That has nothing to do with Objectivism or libertarianism. What is your point?

Lai, link me a site for a sample of your book, please.

11 years ago

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#363 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]
the shell company has literally paid assassins to kill officials in nigeria.
Justify that lai.
lo_Pine

That has nothing to do with Objectivism or libertarianism. What is your point?

Lai, link me a site for a sample of your book, please.

I am not planning on releasing material before I publish to avoid plagiarism and potential copyright issues (excepting for a few trusted individuals).

11 years ago

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#364 lo_Pine

Member since 2012 • 4978 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] That has nothing to do with Objectivism or libertarianism. What is your point?

Lai, link me a site for a sample of your book, please.

I am not planning on releasing material before I publish to avoid plagiarism and potential copyright issues (excepting for a few trusted individuals).

Whose your publisher?

11 years ago

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#365 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="lo_Pine"] Lai, link me a site for a sample of your book, please.

I am not planning on releasing material before I publish to avoid plagiarism and potential copyright issues (excepting for a few trusted individuals).

Whose your publisher?

I will be self-publishing.

11 years ago

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#366 lo_Pine

Member since 2012 • 4978 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] I am not planning on releasing material before I publish to avoid plagiarism and potential copyright issues (excepting for a few trusted individuals).

Whose your publisher?

I will be self-publishing.

You are so full of sh*t. Just tell us whose alt you are already.

11 years ago

MakeMeaSammitch

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#367 MakeMeaSammitch

Member since 2012 • 4889 Posts

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]
the shell company has literally paid assassins to kill officials in nigeria.
Justify that lai.
Laihendi

That has nothing to do with Objectivism or libertarianism. What is your point?

capitalism lead to the assassination of government officials and the repression of the population in Nigeria.

11 years ago

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#368 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="lo_Pine"] Whose your publisher?

I will be self-publishing.

You are so full of sh*t. Just tell us whose alt you are already.

You are being ignorant. You can self-publish for free on amazon and a variety of other places with ebook stores.

11 years ago

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#369 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]
the shell company has literally paid assassins to kill officials in nigeria.
Justify that lai.
MakeMeaSammitch

That has nothing to do with Objectivism or libertarianism. What is your point?

capitalism lead to the assassination of government officials and the repression of the population in Nigeria.

Assassination of government officials has absolutely nothing to do with free markets. You are being absurd.

11 years ago

Chemistian

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#370 Chemistian

Member since 2003 • 635 Posts

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]
[QUOTE="Laihendi"] That has nothing to do with Objectivism or libertarianism. What is your point?Laihendi

capitalism lead to the assassination of government officials and the repression of the population in Nigeria.

Assassination of government officials has absolutely nothing to do with free markets. You are being absurd.

If the assassination occurred to prevent regulation or profit taxation, that could be viewed in context with capitalism and free markets. For instance: if CEO A wanted to kill Politician B in order to prevent paying additional taxes, this would fit with the free market profit model advocated by true capitalism. It is a bit of a stretch, but not much more of one than your argument for how Communism killed 94m people.

11 years ago

MakeMeaSammitch

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#371 MakeMeaSammitch

Member since 2012 • 4889 Posts

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]
[QUOTE="Laihendi"] That has nothing to do with Objectivism or libertarianism. What is your point?Laihendi

capitalism lead to the assassination of government officials and the repression of the population in Nigeria.

Assassination of government officials has absolutely nothing to do with free markets. You are being absurd.

a company wasn't getting their way so they paid people to assassinate other peoople for money reasons.

communism 1 capitalism 0

11 years ago

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#372 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]capitalism lead to the assassination of government officials and the repression of the population in Nigeria.Chemistian

Assassination of government officials has absolutely nothing to do with free markets. You are being absurd.

If the assassination occurred to prevent regulation or profit taxation, that could be viewed in context with capitalism and free markets. For instance: if CEO A wanted to kill Politician B in order to prevent paying additional taxes, this would fit with the free market profit model advocated by true capitalism. It is a bit of a stretch, but not much more of one than your argument for how Communism killed 94m people.

You cannot have a large scale communist government without killing the opposition. It is an inherently violent and oppressive political ideology. Every communist regime has been a violent regime. Look at the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. They are all violent regimes that imprison or kill those who dissent. Laissez-faire capitalism is a system of mutual voluntary cooperation rather than coercion. It is an inherently peaceful system and it has nothing to do with assassination. If a politician is assassinated that is not because markets are free, but because the assassin did not respect his victim's right to live.

11 years ago

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#373 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]capitalism lead to the assassination of government officials and the repression of the population in Nigeria.
MakeMeaSammitch

Assassination of government officials has absolutely nothing to do with free markets. You are being absurd.

a company wasn't getting their way so they paid people to assassinate other peoople for money reasons.

communism 1 capitalism 0

Please refer me to a laissez-faire economist who advocates assassinating government officials.

11 years ago

Ace6301

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#374 Ace6301

Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

Laissez-faire is an inherently non-existent system

Fixed that for you. Also what you said was a double standard.

11 years ago

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#375 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

Laissez-faire is an inherently non-existent systemAce6301
Fixed that for you. Also what you said was a double standard.

Is saying that there is no laissez-faire country supposed to discredit the theory? Western civilization is falling apart, but you do not want laissez-faire economics because that is different from what we have now. That is irrational.

11 years ago

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#376 lo_Pine

Member since 2012 • 4978 Posts

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]I will be self-publishing.Laihendi

You are so full of sh*t. Just tell us whose alt you are already.

You are being ignorant. You can self-publish for free on amazon and a variety of other places with ebook stores.

How much will your book cost?

11 years ago

Chemistian

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#377 Chemistian

Member since 2003 • 635 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Chemistian"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] Assassination of government officials has absolutely nothing to do with free markets. You are being absurd.

If the assassination occurred to prevent regulation or profit taxation, that could be viewed in context with capitalism and free markets. For instance: if CEO A wanted to kill Politician B in order to prevent paying additional taxes, this would fit with the free market profit model advocated by true capitalism. It is a bit of a stretch, but not much more of one than your argument for how Communism killed 94m people.

You cannot have a large scale communist government without killing the opposition. It is an inherently violent and oppressive political ideology. Every communist regime has been a violent regime. Look at the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. They are all violent regimes that imprison or kill those who dissent. Laissez-faire capitalism is a system of mutual voluntary cooperation rather than coercion. It is an inherently peaceful system and it has nothing to do with assassination. If a politician is assassinated that is not because markets are free, but because the assassin did not respect his victim's right to live.

Historically, this would seem to apply to capitalism as well. It was a capitalist government's fear of communism that lead to the Vietnam War. Under your initial premise, I guess all of the casualties, including those caused by weapon developments such as Agent Orange, can be chalked up to the communist side of the war. Furthermore, while I agree that capitalism is vastly superior to communism, we need not pretend that capitalism is some innocent choir boy. If we apply how businesses have been historically confronted with profits and casualties, and when operating under a laissez-faire system, those businesses have repeatedly chosen profits. Only when confronted with forced regulation, which is in direct contrast with laissez-faire (by definition), has a predominantly capitalistic system proven workable.

11 years ago

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#378 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="lo_Pine"] You are so full of sh*t. Just tell us whose alt you are already.

You are being ignorant. You can self-publish for free on amazon and a variety of other places with ebook stores.

How much will your book cost?

It will vary by the ebook provider. It will be free on some, and on the lowest price possible for others (I think that is $0.99 for amazon).

11 years ago

Ace6301

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#379 Ace6301

Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]
Laissez-faire is an inherently non-existent systemLaihendi
Fixed that for you. Also what you said was a double standard.

Is saying that there is no laissez-faire country supposed to discredit the theory? Western civilization is falling apart, but you do not want laissez-faire economics because that is different from what we have now. That is irrational.

You talk as if laissez faire capitalism would fix everything yet it has never existed. That's pretty irrational. Since when is western civilization falling apart? We're at the most advanced point in human history, crime is constantly going down and the economy is recovering after it was crippled by idiot banks operating with too much power which proper regulation would have prevented. Speaking of regulation I heard China had 17,000 dead animals floating in a river the other day. Good times, glad to see removing obtrusive regulation like dumping laws helps the people.

11 years ago

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#380 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Chemistian"][QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Chemistian"] If the assassination occurred to prevent regulation or profit taxation, that could be viewed in context with capitalism and free markets. For instance: if CEO A wanted to kill Politician B in order to prevent paying additional taxes, this would fit with the free market profit model advocated by true capitalism. It is a bit of a stretch, but not much more of one than your argument for how Communism killed 94m people.

You cannot have a large scale communist government without killing the opposition. It is an inherently violent and oppressive political ideology. Every communist regime has been a violent regime. Look at the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. They are all violent regimes that imprison or kill those who dissent. Laissez-faire capitalism is a system of mutual voluntary cooperation rather than coercion. It is an inherently peaceful system and it has nothing to do with assassination. If a politician is assassinated that is not because markets are free, but because the assassin did not respect his victim's right to live.

Historically, this would seem to apply to capitalism as well. It was a capitalist government's fear of communism that lead to the Vietnam War. Under your initial premise, I guess all of the casualties, including those caused by weapon developments such as Agent Orange, can be chalked up to the communist side of the war. Furthermore, while I agree that capitalism is vastly superior to communism, we need not pretend that capitalism is some innocent choir boy. If we apply how businesses have been historically confronted with profits and casualties, and when operating under a laissez-faire system, those businesses have repeatedly chosen profits. Only when confronted with forced regulation, which is in direct contrast with laissez-faire (by definition), has a predominantly capitalistic system proven workable.

Communism is a violation of individual rights. No one has a right to impose a communist regime on a person. Any war to stop communism is necessarily a war of defense, because communism is by necessity an aggressive, coercive, and offensive political/economic system, so yes the deaths from Vietnam and every other Cold War conflict were caused by communism. Laissez faire capitalism is a system of networking individuals. The crime of one person represents his moral failing as an individual, not the failure of the entire system.

11 years ago

worlock77

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#381 worlock77

Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] That has nothing to do with Objectivism or libertarianism. What is your point?Laihendi

Lai, link me a site for a sample of your book, please.

I am not planning on releasing material before I publish to avoid plagiarism and potential copyright issues (excepting for a few trusted individuals).

:lol:

11 years ago

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#382 Laihendi

Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] Fixed that for you. Also what you said was a double standard.

Is saying that there is no laissez-faire country supposed to discredit the theory? Western civilization is falling apart, but you do not want laissez-faire economics because that is different from what we have now. That is irrational.

You talk as if laissez faire capitalism would fix everything yet it has never existed. That's pretty irrational. Since when is western civilization falling apart? We're at the most advanced point in human history, crime is constantly going down and the economy is recovering after it was crippled by idiot banks operating with too much power which proper regulation would have prevented. Speaking of regulation I heard China had 17,000 dead animals floating in a river the other day. Good times, glad to see removing obtrusive regulation like dumping laws helps the people.

Pure laissez-faire capitalism not existing has nothing to do with the question of whether or not it would fix problems that the world is faced with today. Obviously a system will not fix problems if it is not being implemented. You are not even making a coherent argument. And considering that pretty much all of western civilization is hopelessly in debt, the fact that statism is becoming increasingly prevalent in all major western governments, and the fact that America has been becoming increasingly socialist over the past 80 years since FDR indicates that western civilization is falling apart.

11 years ago

MakeMeaSammitch

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#383 MakeMeaSammitch

Member since 2012 • 4889 Posts

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]
[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Assassination of government officials has absolutely nothing to do with free markets. You are being absurd.Laihendi

a company wasn't getting their way so they paid people to assassinate other peoople for money reasons.

communism 1 capitalism 0

Please refer me to a laissez-faire economist who advocates assassinating government officials.

nobody advocates it, but it's a consequence of capitalism.

Capitalism has also been the cause of wars.

For example, see "the gulf war".

11 years ago

Ace6301

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#384 Ace6301

Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] Is saying that there is no laissez-faire country supposed to discredit the theory? Western civilization is falling apart, but you do not want laissez-faire economics because that is different from what we have now. That is irrational.

You talk as if laissez faire capitalism would fix everything yet it has never existed. That's pretty irrational. Since when is western civilization falling apart? We're at the most advanced point in human history, crime is constantly going down and the economy is recovering after it was crippled by idiot banks operating with too much power which proper regulation would have prevented. Speaking of regulation I heard China had 17,000 dead animals floating in a river the other day. Good times, glad to see removing obtrusive regulation like dumping laws helps the people.

Pure laissez-faire capitalism not existing has nothing to do with the question of whether or not it would fix problems that the world is faced with today. Obviously a system will not fix problems if it is not being implemented. You are not even making a coherent argument. And considering that pretty much all of western civilization is hopelessly in debt, the fact that statism is becoming increasingly prevalent in all major western governments, and the fact that America has been becoming increasingly socialist over the past 80 years since FDR indicates that western civilization is falling apart.

Do you not understand how evidence works? Oh who am I kidding let me explain: When you make a statement like "it will fix everything" people want to see "evidence" that proves the statement. What you are doing is called a "baseless claim". Debt is an issue but it can be easily fixed. Statism isn't an issue and given what we've seen if it's handled well it works out well. A little socialist policy in a capitalist economy works wonders on fixing the unfortunate side effects of a capitalist economy while also removing most of the unfortunate bits of socialist policy. I really don't get these people who think things should be a Utopia. It's not going to happen. We're a bunch of incompetent apes and the universe is pretty much the most cold and indifferent thing that could possibly exist. You do what works best and you do you best to fix the issues and if they can't be fixed you work around them. The simple fact that western civilization is incredibly well off right now obviously flies in the face that it's falling apart.

11 years ago

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#385 lo_Pine

Member since 2012 • 4978 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] You are being ignorant. You can self-publish for free on amazon and a variety of other places with ebook stores.

How much will your book cost?

It will vary by the ebook provider. It will be free on some, and on the lowest price possible for others (I think that is $0.99 for amazon).

What's your synopsis?

11 years ago

Chemistian

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#386 Chemistian

Member since 2003 • 635 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Chemistian"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] You cannot have a large scale communist government without killing the opposition. It is an inherently violent and oppressive political ideology. Every communist regime has been a violent regime. Look at the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. They are all violent regimes that imprison or kill those who dissent. Laissez-faire capitalism is a system of mutual voluntary cooperation rather than coercion. It is an inherently peaceful system and it has nothing to do with assassination. If a politician is assassinated that is not because markets are free, but because the assassin did not respect his victim's right to live.

Historically, this would seem to apply to capitalism as well. It was a capitalist government's fear of communism that lead to the Vietnam War. Under your initial premise, I guess all of the casualties, including those caused by weapon developments such as Agent Orange, can be chalked up to the communist side of the war. Furthermore, while I agree that capitalism is vastly superior to communism, we need not pretend that capitalism is some innocent choir boy. If we apply how businesses have been historically confronted with profits and casualties, and when operating under a laissez-faire system, those businesses have repeatedly chosen profits. Only when confronted with forced regulation, which is in direct contrast with laissez-faire (by definition), has a predominantly capitalistic system proven workable.

Communism is a violation of individual rights. No one has a right to impose a communist regime on a person. Any war to stop communism is necessarily a war of defense, because communism is by necessity an aggressive, coercive, and offensive political/economic system, so yes the deaths from Vietnam and every other Cold War conflict were caused by communism. Laissez faire capitalism is a system of networking individuals. The crime of one person represents his moral failing as an individual, not the failure of the entire system.

Communism could be defined as a violation of human rights, but so can socialism and so can capitalism. Any society with a majority rules system can freely advocate whichever system they so choose. Mao, Ho and Castro carried majorities, at least at the time of their rise to power. Their capitalists opponents were often guilty of imposing their systems to an even greater degree than their opponents, and in Vietnam's case, arguably at a greater cost. It was the West's failure to grasp this that lead to the American involvement in Vietnam, and it's ultimate failure there. Laissez faire capitalism can allow for, if not decidedly impose, serious human rights violations of its own. Whether defined within a failure of humanity, or the failure of the system as a whole, lessons from the balance of justice versus liberty offer humbling realities that must be accounted for. These would seem best evidenced within the US by labor markets during the early half of the twentieth century. One could reasonably state that the rise of organized crime occurred because of the lack of security and stability that was lacking prior to the creation of the social safety network, although Prohibition cannot be ignored for its contribution. To clarify: when coal mining companies began to recognize the risks and damages that were associated with coal mining, they attempted to suppress the medical information regarding lung degradation among their miners. When tobacco companies were confronted with both the health risks and the addiction factors associated with their products, they attempted to suppress that information. When chemical manufacturers realized they were polluting neighboring townships and waterways, they attempted to hide the evidence. This list is seemingly endless. It is an inherent flaw in laissez faire capitalism, because the system fails to account for human behavior. At some point, the flaws cannot be limited to the individuals or parties involved, but should instead be applied to the system a whole. Otherwise it only grasps a portion of the issue at hand.

11 years ago

RushKing