Whose fault is it?

While MS has lots of their own games they want to control post sale, I have difficulty believing that the ludicrous DRM they're pushing on the Xbox 540 originated from them.  I'm convinced that the publishers and developers are pushing this.

Sony said during their conference that the PS4 will not require a constant connection nor will it have hardware based restrictions on secondhand games but that "they will leave it up to publishers" around implementing restrictions on the software side.  Despite this, the publishers and developers will undoubtedly push Sony hard to make DRM a mandatory hardware requirement.  Lets see if Sony caves as easily as MS did...

Excellent point.  Businesses don't foist crap on their clients unless their clients are willing to take it.  That's exactly what happened during gen 7.

MS has been at the forefront of DRM pretty much from the onset of DRM.  Selling DRM schemes to content providers is an important part of their business model, so this shouldn't surprise anyone.  MS has never been a consumer-oriented company, they always bet on the media companies.

I believe Sony will do something similar to MS.  Publishers are pushing hard to eradicate used sales, and if Sony doesn't allow such they will support a platform that does.  They just say, "we'll leave it up to the publishers" so they are not seen as the bad guy.  Everyone is praising Sony, but I hold both them and MS in the same regard at this point.  Publishers hate used game sales, this is well known.  Why support a platform that allows them as to one that doesn't?  If I were to bet, both systems will do their best to block used games.

The gaming public. The poor business practices that gamers endorsed in massive numbers this generation with their money. The Xbox One exists in its current form because Microsoft looked at what people were willing to put up with last generation. If you bought Diablo III or SimCity 4 you have no right to complain about always-on DRM. If you bought any game with an Online Pass you have no right to complain about Microsoft blocking used games. If you bought any game with on disc DLC you have no room to complain when companies keep doing it. Companies respond to the market and the market says people don't mind bending over and grabbing their ankles.famicommander

The gaming public. The poor business practices that gamers endorsed in massive numbers this generation with their money. The Xbox One exists in its current form because Microsoft looked at what people were willing to put up with last generation. If you bought Diablo III or SimCity 4 you have no right to complain about always-on DRM. If you bought any game with an Online Pass you have no right to complain about Microsoft blocking used games. If you bought any game with on disc DLC you have no room to complain when companies keep doing it. Companies respond to the market and the market says people don't mind bending over and grabbing their ankles.famicommander

What this man sad.

I believe Sony will do something similar to MS.  Publishers are pushing hard to eradicate used sales, and if Sony doesn't allow such they will support a platform that does.  They just say, "we'll leave it up to the publishers" so they are not seen as the bad guy.  Everyone is praising Sony, but I hold both them and MS in the same regard at this point.  Publishers hate used game sales, this is well known.  Why support a platform that allows them as to one that doesn't?  If I were to bet, both systems will do their best to block used games.

MirkoS77

I believe Sony will do something similar to MS.  Publishers are pushing hard to eradicate used sales, and if Sony doesn't allow such they will support a platform that does.  They just say, "we'll leave it up to the publishers" so they are not seen as the bad guy.  Everyone is praising Sony, but I hold both them and MS in the same regard at this point.  Publishers hate used game sales, this is well known.  Why support a platform that allows them as to one that doesn't?  If I were to bet, both systems will do their best to block used games.

MirkoS77

[QUOTE="famicommander"]The gaming public. The poor business practices that gamers endorsed in massive numbers this generation with their money. The Xbox One exists in its current form because Microsoft looked at what people were willing to put up with last generation. If you bought Diablo III or SimCity 4 you have no right to complain about always-on DRM. If you bought any game with an Online Pass you have no right to complain about Microsoft blocking used games. If you bought any game with on disc DLC you have no room to complain when companies keep doing it. Companies respond to the market and the market says people don't mind bending over and grabbing their ankles.Systems_Id

What this man sad.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

I believe Sony will do something similar to MS.  Publishers are pushing hard to eradicate used sales, and if Sony doesn't allow such they will support a platform that does.  They just say, "we'll leave it up to the publishers" so they are not seen as the bad guy.  Everyone is praising Sony, but I hold both them and MS in the same regard at this point.  Publishers hate used game sales, this is well known.  Why support a platform that allows them as to one that doesn't?  If I were to bet, both systems will do their best to block used games.

MrGeezer

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

I believe Sony will do something similar to MS.  Publishers are pushing hard to eradicate used sales, and if Sony doesn't allow such they will support a platform that does.  They just say, "we'll leave it up to the publishers" so they are not seen as the bad guy.  Everyone is praising Sony, but I hold both them and MS in the same regard at this point.  Publishers hate used game sales, this is well known.  Why support a platform that allows them as to one that doesn't?  If I were to bet, both systems will do their best to block used games.

Minishdriveby

I have lost faith in peoples' ability to stand up for their rights when it comes to gaming.  Many, unfortunately, will support this, and I believe those who boycott this new X1 are in the minority.  Many people just don't care.  What I wonder is, will losing a lot of console sales caused by not being able to sell used games and being able to take their consoles offline for more than 24 hours be enough to negate all that extra revenue that is coming in from people being forced to buy new?  Abolishing used sales will bring in a huge amount of money that was not there before, and it's just a matter of how many people they can afford to lose.

It's shocking to me that MS has just alienated everyone without Internet access.  That's a major move and I can't wait to see the sales figures when it launches.

It in all likely-hood probably will.  Nobody's coming out explicitly stating this will never happen, the best I've heard is, "We will leave it to the publisher".  That offers no guarantee, all it does is shift the burden directly to those who truly wish it implemented.  It's like handing the executioner his axe.  I'm betting that they'll try somehow to ease us into it slowly instead of a drastic, abrupt change.  "Letting the publisher decide" strikes me as a pretty slick segway.

MirkoS77

I have lost faith in peoples' ability to stand up for their rights when it comes to gaming.  Many, unfortunately, will support this, and I believe those who boycott this new X1 are in the minority.  Many people just don't care.  What I wonder is, will losing a lot of console sales caused by not being able to sell used games and being able to take their consoles offline for more than 24 hours be enough to negate all that extra revenue that is coming in from people being forced to buy new?  Abolishing used sales will bring in a huge amount of money that was not there before, and it's just a matter of how many people they can afford to lose.

It's shocking to me that MS has just alienated everyone without Internet access.  That's a major move and I can't wait to see the sales figures when it launches.

MirkoS77

I'm still putting the blame on Microsoft. It's their console, they ultimate decide what happens on it. They're the ones who have decided to require mandatory checks on your console every 24 hours to make sure you're being a good little consumer, they're the ones who've decided to force Kinect and all its Orwellian effects onto people, they're the ones who've decided to eliminate the secondhand market, and the list goes on. 

Publishers might have influenced Microsoft to make some of these changes, but ultimately Microsoft is responsible for this disastrous console. 

I'm still putting the blame on Microsoft. It's their console, they ultimate decide what happens on it. They're the ones who have decided to require mandatory checks on your console every 24 hours to make sure you're being a good little consumer, they're the ones who've decided to force Kinect and all its Orwellian effects onto people, they're the ones who've decided to eliminate the secondhand market, and the list goes on. 

Publishers might have influenced Microsoft to make some of these changes, but ultimately Microsoft is responsible for this disastrous console. 

Vari3ty

Nailed it in the first two posts. Publishers/developers and gamers who bought a bunch of digital games/Steam supporters. MS took the bullet.

But as I said before, although Sony has a more...casual...it's not us, it's them..approach, we already know EA loves this. So their games will have it on the PS4.  I still think MS and Sony are colluding on this and I expect things to eventually end up the same way on the PS4. I just don't see how MS pulls this off on their own. Everyone would by default get a PS4. So I expect the bad news to start trickling in on the PS4 as well.  And if this is the case, this is why I have been saying MS's strategy to get everything out of the way now, works out in the long run, and it was a planned, strategical move to get the bad stuff out of the way, and turn around and please the hardcore gamer at E3. Sony has yet to give their fans the bad news and really paint the bigger picture.

Saying we'll leave it up to publishers, when the largest publisher in the world says "you're going to love this stuff", doesn't sound too reassuring to me. 

The gaming public. The poor business practices that gamers endorsed in massive numbers this generation with their money. The Xbox One exists in its current form because Microsoft looked at what people were willing to put up with last generation. If you bought Diablo III or SimCity 4 you have no right to complain about always-on DRM. If you bought any game with an Online Pass you have no right to complain about Microsoft blocking used games. If you bought any game with on disc DLC you have no room to complain when companies keep doing it. Companies respond to the market and the market says people don't mind bending over and grabbing their ankles.famicommander

^This.

Sony and Microsoft develop and publish games too. Sony was supposed to release the last guardian last gen but they didn't. Developers should have a deadline.