To everyone who thinks 3D is a gimmick.

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for FollowY0urBliss
FollowY0urBliss

320

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1 FollowY0urBliss
Member since 2010 • 320 Posts

Read with an open mind.

3d will take off.... EVENTUALLY. It probably won't happen until glasses aren't required, and until all the minor issues people have with seeing 3d are ironed out, but it WILL happen.

It's pretty silly to think that 3d is just a fad. Um, did ya know you SEE in 3D? Besides... videogames were probably considered a fad at one time. Handheld gaming was probably considered a fad at one time. HDTVs for your living room were considered a novelty that wouldn't reach the general public. I'm sure people thought the INTERNET was a gimmick and wouldn't take off. The same with COMPUTERS! Do you see a pattern here?

The fact is, that people see in 3D. (At least the people out there with two eyes that work)

Obviously, TV, movies, and video games are here to stay. Those technologies and formats WILL (not MIGHT) continue to evolve. TV, movies, and games are BOUND to fully incorporate 3D. Maybe not in the way it is acheived now, but it WILL happen. It's just a matter of time.

If you disagree with me, I'd honestly like to hear your reasons. :)

I just hope they have something like the holodeck before I die.

Avatar image for DJ_Lae
DJ_Lae

42748

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 73

User Lists: 0

#2 DJ_Lae
Member since 2002 • 42748 Posts
There's one aspect of 3D that needs to be solved, although I have no idea how it ever could be - the depth. We see in 3D, but our eyes adjust focus depending on what we're looking at. With 3D movies or games, parts of the scene will either all be in focus or selectively in focus, whether you're looking directly at them or not. Plus, there's the weird sensation that you're looking at a diorama, even in 3D movies that were shot using two cameras for a proper effect - it just looks like everything is sitting on a handful of different planes, like a bunch of cardboard cutouts. I dunno, I don't hate 3D effects, but I also don't think they'll ever look completely natural. Once we get proper technologies that won't rely on powered glasses (worst tech ever) or glasses-free stuff with extremely narrow viewing angles (hi 3DS) it'll help a bit, though.
Avatar image for Black_Knight_00
Black_Knight_00

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#3 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 77 Posts

3d will take off.... EVENTUALLYFollowY0urBliss
I remember reading the exact same words in the 1980s

Avatar image for discipleofsin
discipleofsin

352

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4 discipleofsin
Member since 2004 • 352 Posts

you guys are also assuming the false premise that everyone sees in 3d ... I, for one, can not. I personally can not wait for 3d to go away again.

Avatar image for MLBknights58
MLBknights58

5016

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5 MLBknights58
Member since 2006 • 5016 Posts

I'm not a big fan of it in movie theatres or in my video games sadly.

If others enjoy it, more power to them. But I simply could do without it.

Avatar image for FollowY0urBliss
FollowY0urBliss

320

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6 FollowY0urBliss
Member since 2010 • 320 Posts

you guys are also assuming the false premise that everyone sees in 3d ... I, for one, can not. I personally can not wait for 3d to go away again.

discipleofsin
I did not assume that everyone can see in 3D. But may I ask why you can't?
Avatar image for FollowY0urBliss
FollowY0urBliss

320

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 FollowY0urBliss
Member since 2010 • 320 Posts
There's one aspect of 3D that needs to be solved, although I have no idea how it ever could be - the depth. We see in 3D, but our eyes adjust focus depending on what we're looking at. With 3D movies or games, parts of the scene will either all be in focus or selectively in focus, whether you're looking directly at them or not. Plus, there's the weird sensation that you're looking at a diorama, even in 3D movies that were shot using two cameras for a proper effect - it just looks like everything is sitting on a handful of different planes, like a bunch of cardboard cutouts. I dunno, I don't hate 3D effects, but I also don't think they'll ever look completely natural. Once we get proper technologies that won't rely on powered glasses (worst tech ever) or glasses-free stuff with extremely narrow viewing angles (hi 3DS) it'll help a bit, though.DJ_Lae
This is the kind of reply I'm happy to see. People are too quick to say 3D is a gimmick or a fad. It DEFINITELY WILL happen. But you are absolutely right. Current formats in 3D are still flawed in a few (possibly several) ways. Currently, there are too many problems and too many variables for the 3D tech we have at this time. Such as the people that feel disomfort, or simply can't see the 3D effect. The depth issues. Expensive battery powered glasses. (Active shutter tech) The problems with viewing angles. (for the passive tech) And so on. But we're making progress. And technology is not only improving, but improving FASTER with each passing day. It's only a matter of time. And not that much time, in my opinion.
Avatar image for FollowY0urBliss
FollowY0urBliss

320

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8 FollowY0urBliss
Member since 2010 • 320 Posts

[QUOTE="FollowY0urBliss"]3d will take off.... EVENTUALLYBlack_Knight_00

I remember reading the exact same words in the 1980s

Did you read the whole thread? The 3d tech we have today could not be achieved in the 80's. At least not practically. I know what you're trying to say... but do you honestly believe it won't happen? Seeing a format in 3D isn't the only example of something that had it's surface scratched in the past, yet became something huge in the future. Heck, in my opinion, we've only scratched the surface with what can be done and achieved with the internet PRESENTLY.
Avatar image for 1PMrFister
1PMrFister

3134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 18

User Lists: 0

#10 1PMrFister
Member since 2010 • 3134 Posts
[QUOTE="discipleofsin"]

you guys are also assuming the false premise that everyone sees in 3d ... I, for one, can not. I personally can not wait for 3d to go away again.

FollowY0urBliss
I did not assume that everyone can see in 3D. But may I ask why you can't?

Most likely it's a defect with his vision. There are plenty of people with vision problems, some of those rendering them unable to see the 3D effects in movies and games. That, or he only has one working eye.
Avatar image for JayQproductions
JayQproductions

1806

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11 JayQproductions
Member since 2007 • 1806 Posts

3D as of right now, IS a gimmick and IS a fad. It will fade away in a year or two just like every other form of 3D that has been introduced before, then in about 5-10 years when they get rid of the need of glasses, make things actually appear 3d instead of just raised off the screen slightly, and other things that make 3d right now inconveniant and unimpressive. Then and only then will 3d not be a gimmick or a fad. It is a gimmick and a fad right now because it is being used as a reason to sell things when the technology is nowhere near ready and is barely even noticable.

Avatar image for CarnageHeart
CarnageHeart

18316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

Ever since the polygon, consoles have been perfectly good at producing 3D visuals.

Avatar image for josephl64
josephl64

4424

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 josephl64
Member since 2008 • 4424 Posts

3D as of right now, IS a gimmick and IS a fad. It will fade away in a year or two just like every other form of 3D that has been introduced before, then in about 5-10 years when they get rid of the need of glasses, make things actually appear 3d instead of just raised off the screen slightly, and other things that make 3d right now inconveniant and unimpressive. Then and only then will 3d not be a gimmick or a fad. It is a gimmick and a fad right now because it is being used as a reason to sell things when the technology is nowhere near ready and is barely even noticable.

JayQproductions
even if that's true...the idea of 3D won't die but will be held back for a while until tech catches up
Avatar image for Blade8Aus
Blade8Aus

1819

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 Blade8Aus
Member since 2006 • 1819 Posts

There's one aspect of 3D that needs to be solved, although I have no idea how it ever could be - the depth. We see in 3D, but our eyes adjust focus depending on what we're looking at. With 3D movies or games, parts of the scene will either all be in focus or selectively in focus, whether you're looking directly at them or not. Plus, there's the weird sensation that you're looking at a diorama, even in 3D movies that were shot using two cameras for a proper effect - it just looks like everything is sitting on a handful of different planes, like a bunch of cardboard cutouts. I dunno, I don't hate 3D effects, but I also don't think they'll ever look completely natural. Once we get proper technologies that won't rely on powered glasses (worst tech ever) or glasses-free stuff with extremely narrow viewing angles (hi 3DS) it'll help a bit, though.DJ_Lae

Basically this.

I actually like 3D, but it won't be for everyone until this can be solved.

If this doesn't get solved, it's a fad.

Avatar image for Tropictrain
Tropictrain

4863

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

Although I find 3D very pretty when done well...and head ache inducing when it's not...I find movies that don't use 3D look more like real life than the ones that do. And I find it hard to concentrate on the story when watching a 3D movie. And when I am able to stop paying attention to the 3D effects to focus on the story, I no longer notice the 3D effects until something jumps out and makes me notice it again, and the cycle repeats.

Basically, I can only enjoy 3D if it's something where story is not important. And I only want to see pretty visuals. So basically, it's a once in a while thing for me. They'll have to really fix things up if it's going to become standard though.

Avatar image for Black_Knight_00
Black_Knight_00

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#16 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 77 Posts
[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

[QUOTE="FollowY0urBliss"]3d will take off.... EVENTUALLYFollowY0urBliss

I remember reading the exact same words in the 1980s

Did you read the whole thread? The 3d tech we have today could not be achieved in the 80's. At least not practically. I know what you're trying to say... but do you honestly believe it won't happen? Seeing a format in 3D isn't the only example of something that had it's surface scratched in the past, yet became something huge in the future. Heck, in my opinion, we've only scratched the surface with what can be done and achieved with the internet PRESENTLY.

It's not a matter of tech, it's a matter of demand: people get tired of 3D... fast. I don't know how old you are, but I was there in the 80s when they invented the red&blue glasses and people went crazy over the new fad, but eventually grew out of it pretty quickly, I was there in 1995 when Nintendo first tried to resurrect 3D with that Virtual Boy wreck and no one (consumer or producers) cared, and now in the 2010s here we go again. People will move on, advancement or not. Also, I don't see what the fuss is all about: I've seen some 3D movies and tried the 3DS and people look like cardboard cutouts on a different layer from a flat backdrop, if anything it breaks my suspension of disbelief, makes it look artificial. The only thing that looks good to me are the menus, which are supposed to be flat: those are great, but people should look 'round'. They did in the 80s! And, unlike in the 80s, there's the health factor: Nintendo had to put a red label on the 3DS box warning people it can damage the eyes of children 6 and younger. This alone was the last nail in the 3D coffin for me, but the core of 3D is making your eyes do what they are not supposed to for long stretches of time and that should sound sketchy even for adults. It's no secret 3D induces headaches and dizziness in many people, I for one can feel my optic nerves faintly stinging after a short while. Also don't forget there are millions of people with reduced depth perception who cannot take advantage of 3D (all they see in it is a blurry mess) and let me quote industry tycoon Henry Ford when he said "there's real progress only when a new technology fits everyone", which is the same reason why motion controls won't take over standard controllers. Finally there's the 3D influence on media: we're seeing a bunch of films where objects and characters get real close to the camera, to take advantage of the 3D effect and it feels like more and more media is built around 3D instead of just using it to enhance the experience. With all these drawbacks taken into account you can see why I think 3D is not going to last... again. I respect your opinion though.
Avatar image for nicksonman
nicksonman

1221

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#17 nicksonman
Member since 2009 • 1221 Posts
I think 3D is a gimmick in its current state, but definitely has the potential to become revolutionary. Not yet though.
Avatar image for Jackc8
Jackc8

8515

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 20

User Lists: 0

#18 Jackc8
Member since 2007 • 8515 Posts

You should go to Best Buy and see about getting a job selling TV's. You seem highly motivated;)

Avatar image for Canvas_Of_Flesh
Canvas_Of_Flesh

4052

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19 Canvas_Of_Flesh
Member since 2007 • 4052 Posts

[QUOTE="FollowY0urBliss"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] I remember reading the exact same words in the 1980s

 

Black_Knight_00

Did you read the whole thread? The 3d tech we have today could not be achieved in the 80's. At least not practically. I know what you're trying to say... but do you honestly believe it won't happen? Seeing a format in 3D isn't the only example of something that had it's surface scratched in the past, yet became something huge in the future. Heck, in my opinion, we've only scratched the surface with what can be done and achieved with the internet PRESENTLY.

It's not a matter of tech, it's a matter of demand: people get tired of 3D... fast. I don't know how old you are, but I was there in the 80s when they invented the red&blue glasses and people went crazy over the new fad, but eventually grew out of it pretty quickly, I was there in 1995 when Nintendo first tried to resurrect 3D with that Virtual Boy wreck and no one (consumer or producers) cared, and now in the 2010s here we go again. People will move on, advancement or not. Also, I don't see what the fuss is all about: I've seen some 3D movies and tried the 3DS and people look like cardboard cutouts on a different layer from a flat backdrop, if anything it breaks my suspension of disbelief, makes it look artificial. The only thing that looks good to me are the menus, which are supposed to be flat: those are great, but people should look 'round'. They did in the 80s! And, unlike in the 80s, there's the health factor: Nintendo had to put a red label on the 3DS box warning people it can damage the eyes of children 6 and younger. This alone was the last nail in the 3D coffin for me, but the core of 3D is making your eyes do what they are not supposed to for long stretches of time and that should sound sketchy even for adults. It's no secret 3D induces headaches and dizziness in many people, I for one can feel my optic nerves faintly stinging after a short while. Also don't forget there are millions of people with reduced depth perception who cannot take advantage of 3D (all they see in it is a blurry mess) and let me quote industry tycoon Henry Ford when he said "there's real progress only when a new technology fits everyone", which is the same reason why motion controls won't take over standard controllers. Finally there's the 3D influence on media: we're seeing a bunch of films where objects and characters get real close to the camera, to take advantage of the 3D effect and it feels like more and more media is built around 3D instead of just using it to enhance the experience. With all these drawbacks taken into account you can see why I think 3D is not going to last... again. I respect your opinion though.

100 % agree with your points. It doesn't look natural, and at the end of the day you just can't dismiss the percentage of people that get giant headaches from it. I get a headache from watching a 3D film after about 20 minutes, I wouldn't be able to sit through a film like Das Boot 2: Extreme Submariners 3D*. *I really hope they don't do this, but I wouldn't put it past them.

Avatar image for LazySloth718
LazySloth718

2345

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20 LazySloth718
Member since 2011 • 2345 Posts

Human eyes perceive REAL depth, 3d tech is a simulation of this on a flat surface.

I do not believe it will take off as currently implemented because it is physically straining (on the eyes, brain and nervous system) to perceive the multiple sequence of images.

It's sort of like motion control.

When you use it for 15 minutes you're like "cool!"

When you use it for 2 hours you're like "my arms hurt, and I wish I could sit down."

Same with 3d.

You use it for a little while it's cool.

Use it for extended periods, it's like "I have a headache, and why am I getting nauseous."

Video games in order to entertain have to utilize immersion.

That means our bodies and physical limitations can't get in the way of that immersion.

This is why the various things I just discussed are gimmicks, because they are not feasable.

Companies embrace them because they want desperately something to market, something to sell.

As an individual I don't want them or need them.

But I'm sure some other people (like yourself) will buy them and find out their downsides in due course.

Avatar image for coasterguy65
coasterguy65

7133

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

#21 coasterguy65
Member since 2005 • 7133 Posts

I've been around for awhile...and I've been through 3 or 4 of the 3D is going to take off waves. It never really has. It gets big for a short time..then it dies off. Until they come up with a way to watch 3D without the glasses, and without messing people's vision up...it will never take off.

Avatar image for cprmauldin
cprmauldin

1567

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

#22 cprmauldin
Member since 2009 • 1567 Posts

Yeah, they've been trying to get "3D" to take off since the eighties. I have yet to see it happen.

Avatar image for BuryMe
BuryMe

22017

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 104

User Lists: 0

#23 BuryMe
Member since 2004 • 22017 Posts

[QUOTE="FollowY0urBliss"]3d will take off.... EVENTUALLYBlack_Knight_00

I remember reading the exact same words in the 1980s

Well... Eventually can be a long time.

I don't think 3d will ever be mainstream, ut I think it is popular enough now that it will always be an option for people from here on out.

Avatar image for ArtOfCraft
ArtOfCraft

208

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24 ArtOfCraft
Member since 2004 • 208 Posts
I think the comparison between all those advancements that you listed and 3D are nice in theory, however slightly off. HD was HUGE because of the advancement in quality and detail. The internet was HUGE because it enabled people to connect on levels like never before. Computers were HUGE because they enabled the internet in addition to the necessity of it because of the incoming digital age. 3D however, has been around for a while. I personally do not believe it will take off like HDTV's have. There was a noticeable and awesome difference from SD to HD, 3D however is a novelty in my mind. It doesn't seem like it will ever take off, and to be honest, I've never wanted to see in 3D. The fact that people are even saying they don't want 3D is a red sign as well. HD? Not many people ever said they don't want a clearer picture. Many may have said they could live without it, but not straight up don't want it.
Avatar image for LJChronx
LJChronx

954

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 LJChronx
Member since 2003 • 954 Posts

I have watched a few of the 3D movies and, and to be honest, I havent really enjoyed the 3D. It was ok, at best. That said, I bought a 3DS recently and I love it. The added depth in the video game is great. Not only does it look cool, but it can add strategy or help out with decesion making through out the game. I thought 3D was a gimmick, until I got the 3DS. Now I see its advantages from a games stand point. Thats just me though. It seems everyone has there own take on 3D.

Avatar image for Ilovegames1992
Ilovegames1992

14221

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#26 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

3D is on of the biggest drag factors to the film industry. An awful gimmick.

Avatar image for Shame-usBlackley
Shame-usBlackley

18266

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#27 Shame-usBlackley
Member since 2002 • 18266 Posts

The limited experience I've had with 3D sure felt like a gimmick. My first experience with it was when I saw the 3D version of "Up" in the theatre. At first, it was amazing, and by the end of the movie, I was sort of bored by it. That's how it's felt every time I've experienced -- awesome at first, boring an hour later. I don't really care about it one way or the other, but I'm sure not planning on buying hardware based around it.

Avatar image for YoshiYogurt
YoshiYogurt

6008

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28 YoshiYogurt
Member since 2010 • 6008 Posts
I hate 3d movies, but absolutely adore my 3ds and nvidia 3d vision kit for pc gaming. What I'm really hoping is for 3D movies to die off, and for 3D to shift towards video games. PC and the 3DS do so well with 3d because the 3DS and computer monitor are 1-2 feet away, and that's the perfect range for 3d viewing. I don't see 3d looking to good on my 60 inch TV... thoughts?
Avatar image for Drosa
Drosa

3136

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#29 Drosa
Member since 2004 • 3136 Posts

1. Consumers have stated very clearly that if they have a choice between a 3D or 2D for a movie the majority go for the 2D movie. This isgoing to be the biggest deterrent for distributors, not developers, to fund a 3D project.

2. It is unhealthy. It does not matter that we see in 3D. Our eyes are designed to focus on one thing at a time. A 3D scene shifts it focus point dozens of times a second. You eyes don't like that. This is why people have complained about getting headaches and severe eye strain.

3. Its wrapping paper. 3D will not change the quality of a product. It will only distract you from the fact that its the same game play you've been seeing for years.

4. Aren't you tired of them releasing broken games? For years the industry has hyped HD graphics and physics while seeming ignoring something even more important - engine stability. The games I'm referring to are the ones that almost no one can get to work. This is why I rarely buy a game brand new. 3D technology is likely more complex and will only help make all of this much worse.

Avatar image for QuistisTrepe_
QuistisTrepe_

4121

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 QuistisTrepe_
Member since 2010 • 4121 Posts

No, sorry. 3D is still a silly gimmick in my view that still has a very long way to go in terms of its contribution to gaming. It's a neat concept that still hasn't panned out, not that there's any demand for it in the first place.

Avatar image for RandoIph
RandoIph

2041

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#31 RandoIph
Member since 2010 • 2041 Posts

[QUOTE="FollowY0urBliss"]3d will take off.... EVENTUALLYBlack_Knight_00

I remember reading the exact same words in the 1980s

Funny, I was going to say the same thing.
Avatar image for DecadesOfGaming
DecadesOfGaming

3100

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 38

User Lists: 0

#32 DecadesOfGaming
Member since 2007 • 3100 Posts

3D is cool.. But I'm really waiting for 3.D virtual reality cinemas, games, t.v ect

Avatar image for deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
deactivated-57ad0e5285d73

21398

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#33 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts

I really think that after the next generation, console gaming will change immensely. I don't think all the same players will be playing--sony/ms, if still viable, will use the onlive route--while Nintendo will do something drastically different. I DO NOT think 3D will take off in its current form. I DO think that holographs will be the next evolution in games. Nintendo I think will release some form of tabletop holographic console.

Avatar image for YoshiYogurt
YoshiYogurt

6008

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#34 YoshiYogurt
Member since 2010 • 6008 Posts

1. Consumers have stated very clearly that if they have a choice between a 3D or 2D for a movie the majority go for the 2D movie. This isgoing to be the biggest deterrent for distributors, not developers, to fund a 3D project.

2. It is unhealthy. It does not matter that we see in 3D. Our eyes are designed to focus on one thing at a time. A 3D scene shifts it focus point dozens of times a second. You eyes don't like that. This is why people have complained about getting headaches and severe eye strain.

3. Its wrapping paper. 3D will not change the quality of a product. It will only distract you from the fact that its the same game play you've been seeing for years.

4. Aren't you tired of them releasing broken games? For years the industry has hyped HD graphics and physics while seeming ignoring something even more important - engine stability. The games I'm referring to are the ones that almost no one can get to work. This is why I rarely buy a game brand new. 3D technology is likely more complex and will only help make all of this much worse.

Drosa
1. This is about 3d gaming, not movies,which I addressed in an earlier post. 2. I've never gotten a headache or eyestrain using 3D. 3. 3D can affect the product. Games with great 3d effects like batman or any game on the 3ds make them higher quality IMO 4. 3D doesn't effect the game engine. Sorry this point is completely wrong.