Should MS Really Just Pull The Plug On Japan?

I know this question has been asked a million times, but it seems to me that hope really is falling if it had even been present for MS's outing in Japan. They have just about as good of lineup coming out "geared" toward the japanese as they ever will, Blue Dragon already came out as did Eternal Sonata, and both Lost Odyssey and Infinite Discovery are near finished. However, sales have basically gone nowhere, and MS's TGS conference was filled with less natives, and more outsiders. MS has made an extremely solid Western gaming lineup, as it seems the Japanese don't really play JRPGs anymore that don't bear the names DQ, FF, or Pokemon...IMO it really is becoming a lost cause very rapidly. I know what everyone is thinking, but if MS doesn't do better in Japan than it will have no chance in winning the console war. However, I believe the gaming industry has become less about winning hardware wars, and more about driving profits whether that be from hardware or software both of the concrete and digitally distributed...Furthermore, MS has been proved that its console has a pretty large potential to drive profits, and well they are involved in a business, and last time I checked turning large amounts of profits (which I see the 360 and MS's next console doing) in a business should be the first goal. So IMO MS can be largely successful without selling a console in Japan, and maybe it will free up some time for them to focus on winning Europe or at least doing better. Thoughts?

I never really understood Microsoft's obsession with Japan - it's a high risk/low reward market, the amount of money they poured in it just isn't worth it. I'm not saying they should just pack up and leave, they should indeed invest in it, but throwing millions upon millions in it was simply a stupid move (*cough*Mistwalker*cough*). But then again, Microsoft is in it for the long run and having games that appeal to the Japanese might not help the 360 fate, but it might help the Xbox brand image.

Microsoft recently saying that Europe is now their top priority comes off as a "we don't know what the hell we're doing" statement. America and Europe should've been their main focus since day 1 while slowly (and smartly) investing in Japanese developers.

Keeping a toe in the water in Japan might help lure in Japanese developers. If MS didn't have any local presence and some MS guys just flew in every once in a while, its possible MS might not have been as successful in obtaining the support of quality Japanese developers as it has (RE5, DMC4, VF5, Silent Hill 4 and Infinite Undiscovery are all games that spring to mind). And while Japanese gamers may not have much appetite remaining for hardcore games which aren't part of megafranchises, Western gamers certainly do (Dead Rising and Lost Planet were massively successful in the US).

It's not just the fact that Japan isn't interested in the 360, Microsoft made plenty of mistakes themselves pushing their product over there. Do! Do! Do! was embarrassing advertising even for an industry known for some pretty awful marketing campaigns.

The rest of the world still plays and likes Japanese games, they can't just pull the plug over there. Keep investing in developer relationships and public opinion for future consoles, it's not like they're about to run out of money. Hopefully any stubbornness regarding succeeding in Japan hasn't gotten in the way of Microsoft's plans for more important markets, right now I can't see any evidence that it has.

I think an interesting angle would be to invest in a few hentai games and market the 360 as Japan's adult console, slightly taboo with lots of violence and sex and online goodness. Anything to carve out a niche against the Wii/DS juggernaut and the Playstation brand name.

I've always said that MS needs to grant the Japanese division full autonomy in the decision making process for that part of the globe. Trying to fit the round peg Western doctrine in the square Eastern region hole doesn't work. Hell, MS doesn't have anywhere to go but up. The 360 couldn't do much worse than it already is. Ghost_Face

Thing is, Microsoft is probably more concerned with snagging Japanese-developed games for the Western market than with making moderate inroads in Japan.

[QUOTE="Ghost_Face"]I've always said that MS needs to grant the Japanese division full autonomy in the decision making process for that part of the globe. Trying to fit the round peg Western doctrine in the square Eastern region hole doesn't work. Hell, MS doesn't have anywhere to go but up. The 360 couldn't do much worse than it already is. OremLK

Thing is, Microsoft is probably more concerned with snagging Japanese-developed games for the Western market than with making moderate inroads in Japan.

End the thread right here ladies and gentlemen.

By at least showing support for Japan, Japanese companies will show support back. That and they know that not only Japanese people like Japanese games. The rest of the world does too, and I'm pretty sure the 360 is doing alright everywhere else.

Time to pull the plug. They made a great effort, but at this point I don't see it changing on the next round of consoles either. Invest in the west, keep investing in Japanese talent for the western market and move on.aspro73

I say no, they should stay. Their efforts are commendable, even if not wholely successful. Blue Dragon received critical acclaim and a lot of interest in Japan. Sure, it didn't sell FF numbers, but what else does over there? It moved consoles and sold over 200k units. Lost Odyssey will likely do similar, if not better, numbers.

Ultimately, the efforts to appeal more to the Japanese market has made the 360 lineup more diversified, which is ultimately important in console penetration. They have not alienated any market to do it either. I really don't see why people are so much in arms about their efforts in Japan ...

Now if they really want more success, it will take either a real Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy game announced when the next system is launched. That commitment from the start would attract people, but I really don't see Squenix taking a chance like that so early in a consoles life. But then gamers wouldn't buy the console because they don't see their two favorite franchises coming to it. It's basically a catch 22.

Maybe if they would release more then one big budget game that is appealing for japan a YEAR they might see some progress.

I mean what has Microsoft done for Japan?

In the West they brought Bioware and Bungie and Lionhead Studios and RareWare. In Japan they didn't buy anybody.

In the West they made strong ties with Epic along with many other Western appealing developers. In Japan just Tecmo and MistWalker, and not only that but the majority of Japanese publishers they are making ties in with such as Capcom and SEGA mostly release Western focused games for the platform.

So honestly I say no they shouldn't pull the plug in Japan, because there was never a plug in there because they never took the country seriously to begin with.

Anyway here's the Japanese Gears of War Commercial to show how seriously they took their marketing.

As for that "solid Western Line-up" yes the line-up is decent but the thing is most Japanese individuals do not know about those games since they are ALWAYS handed down to small publishers who don't advertise them *similar to Atlus or NIS*. So it isn't only the fact that the games don't appeal to Japan, but moreso the fact that Japan doesn't know they exist.

Not too long ago I posted a thread called Is the terrible performance of the 360 in Japan due to being 'gaijin'?SciFiCat

I've talked to people who live/lived in Japan, people who have been living there for 20+ or even there whole lives and not one person said yes to that question when I asked them it. From what I've heard Japan doesn't have a problem buying foreign products and actually buys a fair share amount of them.

To be honest, They should have focus more on Europe to begin with. If you haven't notice but just by being big in NA. They already aquired massive support from Capcom and Namco just to name to big publishers without really a presence in Japan. Take europe too. If they want to sell a game then worldwide...Best to make it multiplat. I mean really if you take alook at support. Its not like most companies are jumping behind PS3 either even with thier japanese base.

I do not think pull the plug. Just reduce interest. Lower advertising, Stop being too aggresive. This is what I mean. Become a publisher or something for Japanese games. Ala MystWalker. Hopefully the west sucess of those will increase your sucess.

Maybe if they would release more then one big budget game that is appealing for japan a YEAR they might see some progress.

I mean what has Microsoft done for Japan?

In the West they brought Bioware and Bungie and Lionhead Studios and RareWare. In Japan they didn't buy anybody.

In the West they made strong ties with Epic along with many other Western appealing developers. In Japan just Tecmo and MistWalker, and not only that but the majority of Japanese publishers they are making ties in with such as Capcom and SEGA mostly release Western focused games for the platform.

So honestly I say no they shouldn't pull the plug in Japan, because there was never a plug in there because they never took the country seriously to begin with.

Anyway here's the Japanese Gears of War Commercial to show how seriously they took their marketing.

As for that "solid Western Line-up" yes the line-up is decent but the thing is most Japanese individuals do not know about those games since they are ALWAYS handed down to small publishers who don't advertise them *similar to Atlus or NIS*. So it isn't only the fact that the games don't appeal to Japan, but moreso the fact that Japan doesn't know they exist.

[QUOTE="SciFiCat"]Not too long ago I posted a thread called Is the terrible performance of the 360 in Japan due to being 'gaijin'?Dencore

I've talked to people who live/lived in Japan, people who have been living there for 20+ or even there whole lives and not one person said yes to that question when I asked them it. From what I've heard Japan doesn't have a problem buying foreign products and actually buys a fair share amount of them.

But to put all of the blame on Microsoft is not an accurate criticism. Japanese developers have categorically rejected putting Japan's most beloved franchises on the 360. The Japanese market, just like any other market, flocks to the familiar big franchises too. Is Halo 3 pushing consoles? I'm quite sure it is. Well Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are Japan's Halo, GTA and Madden.

When I heard that Konami, Namco, Sega, Capcom and Square Enix were all in support of the 360, I was very impressed. But when I saw the lineup of games they were planning, most seriously disappointed. Why would a Japanese gamer invest in a system where they know that their favorite franchises are coming to it?

So this tells me that Japanese gamers AND developers as a whole have always had little faith in the 360.

I have some Japanese friends. I've asked them why the Japanese dislike the 360, they replied that the good games are few and far between. There are too many shooters, and that Microsoft doesn't treat the Japanese 360 users as well as the Europeans and Americans.

Many Japanese gamers are woman and children, and I don't see how the 360 would appeal to them.

They should not pull the plug on Japan..It's always good to have a thorn in the ass of Sony and Nintendo..DarkSidexxx

But it is such a small thorn it is hardly worth noticing. If this was the 1992 presidential election, MS would be Ross Perot, Sony would be George Bush Sr., and Nintendo would be Bill Clinton. Who, I ask you, would want to be Ross Perot? In other words, are they just there to help Nintendo win by splitting the consumer vote?

edit:  For the record, I'm not trying to imply that Sony would beat Nintendo if MS didn't have a presence over there... as that would be a very stupid thing to say.  I was mostly saying that I don't see the point of competing for a bigger chunk of last place.

But to put all of the blame on Microsoft is not an accurate criticism. Japanese developers have categorically rejected putting Japan's most beloved franchises on the 360. The Japanese market, just like any other market, flocks to the familiar big franchises too. Is Halo 3 pushing consoles? I'm quite sure it is. Well Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are Japan's Halo, GTA and Madden.

Darth_Tigris

Are you aware that Japanese Publishers games sell more in Japan then overseas on average?

Why would they put DragonQuest on the 360 if it sells over 6 times more in Japan then overseas?

Heck why would they even put franchises like Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts on the 360 if aroudn 40% of their sales are in Japan? I mean if you put it on the 360 it will sell 1/30th of what it would sold.

To put their franhcise on the 360 and loose millions, makes zero sense in any degree imaginable. Especially since every Japanese appealing third party game Japanese publishers have released have sold far under expectations in both Japan and the West.

It is 100% Microsoft's fault for failing in Japan and absolutly no one elses.

And as for Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy saving the system, I think you have to do a little reseach on a handheld called "The Wonderswan".

[QUOTE="Darth_Tigris"]

But to put all of the blame on Microsoft is not an accurate criticism. Japanese developers have categorically rejected putting Japan's most beloved franchises on the 360. The Japanese market, just like any other market, flocks to the familiar big franchises too. Is Halo 3 pushing consoles? I'm quite sure it is. Well Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are Japan's Halo, GTA and Madden.

Dencore

Are you aware that Japanese Publishers games sell more in Japan then overseas?

Why would they put DragonQuest on the 360 if it sells over 6 times more in Japan then overseas?

Heck why would they even put franchises like Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts on the 360 if aroudn 40% of their sales are in Japan? I mean if you put it on the 360 it will sell 1/30th of what it would sold.

To put their franhcise makes zero sense in any degree imaginable. Especially since every Japanese appealing third party game Japanese publishers have released have sold far under expectations in both Japan and the West.

It is 100% Microsoft's fault for failing in Japan and absolutly no one elses.

And as for Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy saving the system, I think you have to do a little reseach on a handheld called "The Wonderswan".

Alot of it is MS's fault, but I think you're going a little too far to say that it is all MS's fault, they are some developers who really failed to deliver the goods for the japnese.

Alot of it is MS's fault, but I think you're going a little too far to say that it is all MS's fault, they are some developers who really failed to deliver the goods for the japnese.

HiResDes

Oh I agree *Guess I worded it a little to harshly*, but the Xbox was a previous failure that screwed some Japanese developers *Mainly SEGA* in the sales and profit department, and due to the last console being a failure I'm not too surprised that Japanese developers ignored the system. I mean the only ones that payed attention to it are those that were interested in making games for the Western Market *wel besides Tecmo and few others*.

In all honestly I don't think Microsoft will try to get Japan again since looking at their financial situation with the Xbox brand, I think they'll look for what works with them to make profit off of the project.

[QUOTE="Darth_Tigris"]

But to put all of the blame on Microsoft is not an accurate criticism. Japanese developers have categorically rejected putting Japan's most beloved franchises on the 360. The Japanese market, just like any other market, flocks to the familiar big franchises too. Is Halo 3 pushing consoles? I'm quite sure it is. Well Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are Japan's Halo, GTA and Madden.

Dencore

Are you aware that Japanese Publishers games sell more in Japan then overseas on average?

Why would they put DragonQuest on the 360 if it sells over 6 times more in Japan then overseas?

Heck why would they even put franchises like Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts on the 360 if aroudn 40% of their sales are in Japan? I mean if you put it on the 360 it will sell 1/30th of what it would sold.

To put their franhcise on the 360 and loose millions, makes zero sense in any degree imaginable. Especially since every Japanese appealing third party game Japanese publishers have released have sold far under expectations in both Japan and the West.

It is 100% Microsoft's fault for failing in Japan and absolutly no one elses.

And as for Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy saving the system, I think you have to do a little reseach on a handheld called "The Wonderswan".

If a FF or Dragon Quest didn't move systems in Japan, then that's the people's fault and no one else's.

If a FF or Dragon Quest didn't move systems in Japan, then that's the people's fault and no one else's.

CAD-Monkey

?

[QUOTE="Darth_Tigris"]

But to put all of the blame on Microsoft is not an accurate criticism. Japanese developers have categorically rejected putting Japan's most beloved franchises on the 360. The Japanese market, just like any other market, flocks to the familiar big franchises too. Is Halo 3 pushing consoles? I'm quite sure it is. Well Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are Japan's Halo, GTA and Madden.

Dencore

Are you aware that Japanese Publishers games sell more in Japan then overseas on average?

Why would they put DragonQuest on the 360 if it sells over 6 times more in Japan then overseas?

Heck why would they even put franchises like Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts on the 360 if aroudn 40% of their sales are in Japan? I mean if you put it on the 360 it will sell 1/30th of what it would sold.

To put their franhcise on the 360 and loose millions, makes zero sense in any degree imaginable. Especially since every Japanese appealing third party game Japanese publishers have released have sold far under expectations in both Japan and the West.

It is 100% Microsoft's fault for failing in Japan and absolutly no one elses.

And as for Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy saving the system, I think you have to do a little reseach on a handheld called "The Wonderswan".

Because they heavily COURTED these publishers. And they had a quality console with a lot of developer support. I'm talking prior to the release of the 360. If SE had said that FFXIII is coming for the PS3 and 360 during E3 or TGS 2005, it would've made a HUGE difference in 360 sales in Japan. Same with MGS (which actually sales MUCH higher outside of Japan, but I digress), Tekken, etc.

My point was that the initial lack of commitment from Japanese devs with their important titles DOOMED the 360 in Japan from the start. That cannot be blamed on MS. But, for the sake of fairness, MS did make misteps in a market that is hard to understand when it comes to gaming.

Because they heavily COURTED these publishers. And they had a quality console with a lot of developer support. I'm talking prior to the release of the 360. If SE had said that FFXIII is coming for the PS3 and 360 during E3 or TGS 2005, it would've made a HUGE difference in 360 sales in Japan. Same with MGS (which actually sales MUCH higher outside of Japan, but I digress), Tekken, etc.Darth_Tigris

Those games have ALWAYS been exclusive franchies. They never appear on two consoles before so why now?

My point was that the initial lack of commitment from Japanese devs with their important titles DOOMED the 360 in Japan from the start. That cannot be blamed on MS. But, for the sake of fairness, MS did make misteps in a market that is hard to understand when it comes to gaming.

Darth_Tigris

No it is Microsoft's fault they couldn've turned themselves around in that region like SEGA did with the Saturn if they just took it seriously.

[QUOTE="Darth_Tigris"]

Because they heavily COURTED these publishers. And they had a quality console with a lot of developer support. I'm talking prior to the release of the 360. If SE had said that FFXIII is coming for the PS3 and 360 during E3 or TGS 2005, it would've made a HUGE difference in 360 sales in Japan. Same with MGS (which actually sales MUCH higher outside of Japan, but I digress), Tekken, etc.Dencore

Those games have ALWAYS been exclusive franchies. They never appear on two consoles before so why now?

Because the gaming world has CHANGED. Some have adjusted and embraced the multiplatform approach (Capcom and Sega come to mind), some have not. How can FFXIII and Vs sell the kinds of numbers they are used to if they remain PS3 exclusives? 360 availability would've given a lower cost entry point and even opened them up to PC markets.

[QUOTE="Darth_Tigris"]

My point was that the initial lack of commitment from Japanese devs with their important titles DOOMED the 360 in Japan from the start. That cannot be blamed on MS. But, for the sake of fairness, MS did make misteps in a market that is hard to understand when it comes to gaming.

Dencore

No it is Microsoft's fault they couldn've turned themselves around in that region like SEGA did with the Saturn if they just took it seriously.

Eh ... that memory sounds a bit selective. Saturn did well initially because of the obsession with VF2 by Japanese gamers. After that it did middling and ended up 3rd behind the N64 (IIRC). Once FFVII got annouced for the PS, it was pretty much over. See the power of an FF or DQ announcement?

As Carnage stated in his own way, MS has made in roads by attempting to maintain a presence in Japan and its showing in the increased Japanese support.

For a MS console to have a Square-Enixexclusive heading their way was unthinkable last gen, but it has happened along with a simultaneous release of another title in The Last Remanant. MS persistence has paid off. Perhaps not in console sales in Japan, but where it counts, in more diverse third party support and brand recognition.