Cheeser and Cheaters

Don't you hate it when you play a cheater/cheesers close and you wither beat them, or play them so close and they call you a cheeser after the fact because you played them so close or took something away the discovered doing. Gawd I hate them.

I did not really understand your post?K1LLR3175

I mean when you play someone that has found a glitch in a game like madden, SFIV, and they abuse it. You play these type of people and figure out how to defeat there glitches so win/lose if you hang close, they call you a cheeser or a cheater because you defeated their glitch. My example was in All pro football, this guy had 4 recievers and a fast running back and did screens and gimme plays all day, i did good to hang with his BS and only lost buy a field goal. We get to rate each other in the end, i said good game and he calls me a cheater and didn't tell me good reasons why I was one. He may have won but it hurts when someone wins in that fashion and is still a prick bout it. I mean if we were face to face i bet he wouldnt say anything. but cheeser...what can you do.

I know what you mean. When I rented Skate 2, a lot of people glitched for the Hall of Meat. I remember this one guy was talking ****. He glitched, and got a big number (not unbeatable but a big number). It was the last time around. He was bragging about how he wasn't going to cheat any more because he's just that good. I got just a bit higher score than he did. I reported him, and anyone else who glitched for cheating.

Happened to me in Halo pc fairly frequently when i used to play alot, I awlays use to get accused of botting but i even had ppl admit to using a bot themselves and because i beat them i must also bot. Lol noobs.

Um... Yeah, cheating is bad, but cheesing? Come on!

Simply, if I beat you at the game, I win. If winning at the game is very boring, it must not be a very good game. However, most of the time I get accused of cheesing is just because the person on the other end isn't very good, and ifmove or strategy keeps working over and over, why should I change it?

Um... Yeah, cheating is bad, but cheesing? Come on!

Simply, if I beat you at the game, I win. If winning at the game is very boring, it must not be a very good game. However, most of the time I get accused of cheesing is just because the person on the other end isn't very good, and ifmove or strategy keeps working over and over, why should I change it?

AtomicTangerine

thats the best quote i get from a true cheeser.

[QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

Um... Yeah, cheating is bad, but cheesing? Come on!

Simply, if I beat you at the game, I win. If winning at the game is very boring, it must not be a very good game. However, most of the time I get accused of cheesing is just because the person on the other end isn't very good, and ifmove or strategy keeps working over and over, why should I change it?

The_Unknown_B

thats the best quote i get from a true cheeser.

[QUOTE="The_Unknown_B"]

[QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

Um... Yeah, cheating is bad, but cheesing? Come on!

Simply, if I beat you at the game, I win. If winning at the game is very boring, it must not be a very good game. However, most of the time I get accused of cheesing is just because the person on the other end isn't very good, and ifmove or strategy keeps working over and over, why should I change it?

Invisible_Kid2

thats the best quote i get from a true cheeser.

Wait, so when I play online I should make a point of letting other players get a chance? Should I make sure you have a fun time while we both play a sub-par game?

To be fair, if cheesing only works cause the player on the other end isn't very good, I tell them how to avoid it next time after I win. For example, in UMK3 on 360, holding back and b does a sweep. If you keep timing this move right, the only way out is to jump immediatly as you get up. For a while, tons of people online had no idea, so I would sweep them once, and keep doing it until I got a flawless victory. After that, I tell them to jump out of it cause I would rather have an opponent who I couldn't beat with one button

However, stuff like infinites in MKvDC made it sure I wouldn't play the game online. If an infinite is the best way to win, I do not want to play that game. To say it is the cheesers fault when you get caught in an infinite is the wrong way to go about it though- it is the game's fault for allowing it.

So yeah... either stop playing the game or don't make up a list of "courtesy" rules that help you feel better if you follow them.

[QUOTE="Invisible_Kid2"][QUOTE="The_Unknown_B"]

thats the best quote i get from a true cheeser.

AtomicTangerine

Wait, so when I play online I should make a point of letting other players get a chance? Should I make sure you have a fun time while we both play a sub-par game?

To be fair, if cheesing only works cause the player on the other end isn't very good, I tell them how to avoid it next time after I win. For example, in UMK3 on 360, holding back and b does a sweep. If you keep timing this move right, the only way out is to jump immediatly as you get up. For a while, tons of people online had no idea, so I would sweep them once, and keep doing it until I got a flawless victory. After that, I tell them to jump out of it cause I would rather have an opponent who I couldn't beat with one button

However, stuff like infinites in MKvDC made it sure I wouldn't play the game online. If an infinite is the best way to win, I do not want to play that game. To say it is the cheesers fault when you get caught in an infinite is the wrong way to go about it though- it is the game's fault for allowing it.

So yeah... either stop playing the game or don't make up a list of "courtesy" rules that help you feel better if you follow them.

So...this is fun for you? You feel good about winning this way? Not trying to pile on...but I just don't get it. It's this kind of thing that helps keep me away from online gaming. It takes no skill to spam the same cheap move over and over again - and I really can't iimagine how it's fun for anyone.

Yeah, believe it or not, wiping the floor with a guy is fun for me. If it was actually a cheap move though, I wouldn't be playing the game.

Think of it this way- a football team runs a play, gets a first down. They run the same play again, get a first down. After that, they run the SAME PLAY and get a first down. They keep doing this, and everytime they get the ball they go 10yards at a time into the endzone. After the game, the other team calls the play cheap, while fans are amazed that the losing team didn't do anything to STOP said play.

That's how I play online. If I am winning over and over, I'll keep doing what I am doing. If things start going bad, THEN I try something else.

I find it ridiculous that some people have a video game code of ethics where they believe it isn't fair to play the game the way it was designed. Is it unfair to rush in an RTS? Does using P90 and juggernaut in COD4 make me a bad person? Should I never pick Magneto in MvC2?

All the complaining comes from 2 different camps- There are the "I'm not very good at this, so I complain" camp or the, "The game I am playing is real fun, but 1 or 2 things totally break it." Like I said, I can't play the new Mortal Kombat online for the latter reason, but most of the time, it is the former. Please, I am not looking to grief or ruin your time online, but it also isn't my responsibility to make sure you have fun.

Yeah, believe it or not, wiping the floor with a guy is fun for me. If it was actually a cheap move though, I wouldn't be playing the game.

Think of it this way- a football team runs a play, gets a first down. They run the same play again, get a first down. After that, they run the SAME PLAY and get a first down. They keep doing this, and everytime they get the ball they go 10yards at a time into the endzone. After the game, the other team calls the play cheap, while fans are amazed that the losing team didn't do anything to STOP said play.

That's how I play online. If I am winning over and over, I'll keep doing what I am doing. If things start going bad, THEN I try something else.

I find it ridiculous that some people have a video game code of ethics where they believe it isn't fair to play the game the way it was designed. Is it unfair to rush in an RTS? Does using P90 and juggernaut in COD4 make me a bad person? Should I never pick Magneto in MvC2?

All the complaining comes from 2 different camps- There are the "I'm not very good at this, so I complain" camp or the, "The game I am playing is real fun, but 1 or 2 things totally break it." Like I said, I can't play the new Mortal Kombat online for the latter reason, but most of the time, it is the former. Please, I am not looking to grief or ruin your time online, but it also isn't my responsibility to make sure you have fun.

AtomicTangerine

[QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

Yeah, believe it or not, wiping the floor with a guy is fun for me. If it was actually a cheap move though, I wouldn't be playing the game.

Think of it this way- a football team runs a play, gets a first down. They run the same play again, get a first down. After that, they run the SAME PLAY and get a first down. They keep doing this, and everytime they get the ball they go 10yards at a time into the endzone. After the game, the other team calls the play cheap, while fans are amazed that the losing team didn't do anything to STOP said play.

That's how I play online. If I am winning over and over, I'll keep doing what I am doing. If things start going bad, THEN I try something else.

I find it ridiculous that some people have a video game code of ethics where they believe it isn't fair to play the game the way it was designed. Is it unfair to rush in an RTS? Does using P90 and juggernaut in COD4 make me a bad person? Should I never pick Magneto in MvC2?

All the complaining comes from 2 different camps- There are the "I'm not very good at this, so I complain" camp or the, "The game I am playing is real fun, but 1 or 2 things totally break it." Like I said, I can't play the new Mortal Kombat online for the latter reason, but most of the time, it is the former. Please, I am not looking to grief or ruin your time online, but it also isn't my responsibility to make sure you have fun.

Invisible_Kid2

That's the point. No team would ever let another do the same thing over and over and over without adapting. Any game where such a tactic is viable is not a game worth anybody's time, at least when it comes to being played at a competitive level.

Also, using 1 move over and over doesn't mean you kick ass, it means the person at the recieving end totally sucks. I have fun humuliating a guy online, and if you don't, why even play anything besides coop online?

Also, using 1 move over and over doesn't mean you kick ass, it means the person at the recieving end totally sucks. I have fun humuliating a guy online, and if you don't, why even play anything besides coop online?

AtomicTangerine

Haha, good point.

Don't you hate it when you play a cheater/cheesers close and you wither beat them, or play them so close and they call you a cheeser after the fact because you played them so close or took something away the discovered doing. Gawd I hate them.

The_Unknown_B

P.S. - What is a cheeser?

Theyre just dyslexic,and southpaw lol!god turned theyre gravity off haha!

[QUOTE="The_Unknown_B"]

Don't you hate it when you play a cheater/cheesers close and you wither beat them, or play them so close and they call you a cheeser after the fact because you played them so close or took something away the discovered doing. Gawd I hate them.

Iceman8012

P.S. - What is a cheeser?

Alright, this is a word that doesn't come up too often, soyou are forgiven for not knowing!

Cheesing is using the same tactic over and over and over and over again, usually because your opponent isn't able to stop it. It could be a move in a fighting game, using a powerful item in an MMO, or even alternating drops and lobs in a tennis game. Basically, if your opponent isn't able to stop your repetitive tactics, they will say you are cheesing.

If you have read what I typed before, I think I have made it fairly clear that I believe cheesing doesn't mean you are a bad person, just that the other player or the game itself isn't very good.

[QUOTE="Iceman8012"]

[QUOTE="The_Unknown_B"]

Don't you hate it when you play a cheater/cheesers close and you wither beat them, or play them so close and they call you a cheeser after the fact because you played them so close or took something away the discovered doing. Gawd I hate them.

AtomicTangerine

P.S. - What is a cheeser?

Alright, this is a word that doesn't come up too often, soyou are forgiven for not knowing!

Cheesing is using the same tactic over and over and over and over again, usually because your opponent isn't able to stop it. It could be a move in a fighting game, using a powerful item in an MMO, or even alternating drops and lobs in a tennis game. Basically, if your opponent isn't able to stop your repetitive tactics, they will say you are cheesing.

If you have read what I typed before, I think I have made it fairly clear that I believe cheesing doesn't mean you are a bad person, just that the other player or the game itself isn't very good.

[QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

[QUOTE="Iceman8012"] I didn't understand a word of this.

P.S. - What is a cheeser?

freekninjinc

Alright, this is a word that doesn't come up too often, soyou are forgiven for not knowing!

Cheesing is using the same tactic over and over and over and over again, usually because your opponent isn't able to stop it. It could be a move in a fighting game, using a powerful item in an MMO, or even alternating drops and lobs in a tennis game. Basically, if your opponent isn't able to stop your repetitive tactics, they will say you are cheesing.

If you have read what I typed before, I think I have made it fairly clear that I believe cheesing doesn't mean you are a bad person, just that the other player or the game itself isn't very good.

But that's the thing- I shouldn't have to show courtesy in A VIDEO GAME!

Here is an example that I think will help explain things a bit so you realize I'm not real mean-

Back in the day, tons of team-based FPS games had problems with spawn killing. The game would give each team a base, and it was often way too easy to shoot dudes in the face right as they start the game. For example, it was borderline impossible to make a comeback in Battlefield 1942 once the other team had you locked down in your base surrounded by tanks and being strafed by planes.

This was not very fun, but it essentially gave players two choices in this situation- should you go easy on the other team just to give them a chance to win, or should you play the game to the best of your ability and just dominate? One gives the other team a chance when you don't need to, but the other doesn't really offer compelling gameplay. However, the game was so awesome otherwise we just fought on to the next match.

In 2009, this doesn't happen. Games are designed better so that spawn camping isn't the best strategy. Killzone 2 puts turrets around the spawn area. Warhawk lets one player sneak behind enemy lines and cut off the other team's bases from each other, seriously reducing the points they get. Killing people as they spawn is not the best strategy in 2009, and we are all better off for it.

A well designed game doesn't allow for the bad form of cheesing. A good player takes a cheeser and dominates him. That is all.

[QUOTE="freekninjinc"][QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

Alright, this is a word that doesn't come up too often, soyou are forgiven for not knowing!

Cheesing is using the same tactic over and over and over and over again, usually because your opponent isn't able to stop it. It could be a move in a fighting game, using a powerful item in an MMO, or even alternating drops and lobs in a tennis game. Basically, if your opponent isn't able to stop your repetitive tactics, they will say you are cheesing.

If you have read what I typed before, I think I have made it fairly clear that I believe cheesing doesn't mean you are a bad person, just that the other player or the game itself isn't very good.

AtomicTangerine

But that's the thing- I shouldn't have to show courtesy in A VIDEO GAME!

Here is an example that I think will help explain things a bit so you realize I'm not real mean-

Back in the day, tons of team-based FPS games had problems with spawn killing. The game would give each team a base, and it was often way too easy to shoot dudes in the face right as they start the game. For example, it was borderline impossible to make a comeback in Battlefield 1942 once the other team had you locked down in your base surrounded by tanks and being strafed by planes.

This was not very fun, but it essentially gave players two choices in this situation- should you go easy on the other team just to give them a chance to win, or should you play the game to the best of your ability and just dominate? One gives the other team a chance when you don't need to, but the other doesn't really offer compelling gameplay. However, the game was so awesome otherwise we just fought on to the next match.

In 2009, this doesn't happen. Games are designed better so that spawn camping isn't the best strategy. Killzone 2 puts turrets around the spawn area. Warhawk lets one player sneak behind enemy lines and cut off the other team's bases from each other, seriously reducing the points they get. Killing people as they spawn is not the best strategy in 2009, and we are all better off for it.

A well designed game doesn't allow for the bad form of cheesing. A good player takes a cheeser and dominates him. That is all.

Okay, I think the disagreement is coming from how we define playing fair.

I define it by not using glitches or third-party products and software to cheat. Beyond that, whatever buttons I push on the controller or keyboard are totally fair. Everybody can do it.

You, on the other hand, have a list of rules that you apply to every game depending on what you define as "fair." Basically, if you think a tactic is too effective, you don't use it.

Basically, you never pick juggernaut in COD4 and get sniped. I stand right next to you and also get sniped, but because I picked juggernaut, I survive. You are the better player.

AtomicTangerine, I couldn't agree more. I play primarily fighting games, and I've seen a lot of people call certain things "cheesy". A good percentage of the time, it's just their absurd lack of the ability to adapt making them think it's cheesy. I've never really been accused of being cheesy, but I do know some people who attempt to "cheese" by repeating certain powerful moves over and over--something like this will pretty much NEVER work against a good player. If someone is doing the same thing over and over and getting away with it, it's mostly your fault for falling for the same thing over and over in the first place...find a way to stop it and they won't do it over and over.

That said, I understand this logic may not apply in a case where a major glitch is exploited, but if everyone can do it, isn't it just fair game? If everyone is "cheating", is it even really cheating anymore? It's a level playing field...

First of all, worst OP I've read in a while. Seriously, WTH?

Secondly, I'm with Atomic here. I despise cheaters, but I hate whining little cry babies even more. Online games are supposed to be Competitive, and not just fun. Sometimes I wonder whether these whiners ever even played outdoor sports.... in real life if you have a weakness, people WILL exploit it. Heck, every sport has "Video" rooms where they try to find out the weakness of the other team or its players. If you keep getting owned by the other team, that doesn't mean they are cheesers, it simply means you just suck. In real life, these whiners are the same kids who got picked last in gym class.

Killzone 2 is a great example of this. I used to be called as a Rocket whore simply because I picked the most powerful cIass. WHY wouldn't I pick the most powerful cIass in the game? So everyone started banning Rockets from their games. Fair enough. It gives the game a more tactical feeling. So I started using the Engineer class placing turrets everywhere and using the only gun in my disposal, the Shotgun. Turned out, I'm a ****ing surgeon with the Shotgun. Again, The *** and moaning got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore, so I switched to the Tactician with boost. Guess what? People dont like other people boosting in KZ2. So I switched to the C4 ability planting C4s in doorways I know the other team has to take.... Que the *****ing again.

The funniest thing is that people kept dying and taking the same path over and over again. Should I stop planting C4s because the other team is full of idiots who suck at life?

That said, I understand this logic may not apply in a case where a major glitch is exploited, but if everyone can do it, isn't it just fair game? If everyone is "cheating", is it even really cheating anymore? It's a level playing field...

ChalaFala

Exactly! If people are so upset at getting owned by the RPG or a Shotgun, they could simply you know maybe use the Shotgun themselves.

Here we go again.Do You honestly believe the people calling You cheap cant pull off the crap Youre pulling?Seriously,get real.The point is we can and have been just like You,and its no fun to keep playing like that.You sukkas always use the excuse that people who criticize You just cant do what You can.Bull.End of discussion.What are You going to do when it ends up You took longer to figure it out than them?hmmm?Thats gonna sukk.

Here we go again.Do You honestly believe the people calling You cheap cant pull off the crap Youre pulling?Seriously,get real.The point is we can and have been just like You,and its no fun to keep playing like that.You sukkas always use the excuse that people who criticize You just cant do what You can.Bull.End of discussion.What are You going to do when it ends up You took longer to figure it out than them?hmmm?Thats gonna sukk.

freekninjinc

What?

It's hard to make a decisive call on something like this, since it's very situational. For example: in a fighting game (that is, a well made fighting game), there are many times where people will call certain things cheap. It's rarely ever really cheap. Even in S0lidSnake's case, while I haven't played too much Killzone 2, picking a specific class and using their strengths efficiently hardly classifies as "cheap". To put it in ssb terms, how many extra rules and guidelines do you need to add before everyone ends up playing Fox vs Fox in Final Destination with no items?

The point is not that someone pulling off "cheap crap" feels like they can do something you can't, it's that 90% of the time, it's a PERFECTLY FAIR part of the game. It's not their job to dumb down their playstyle or stop using specific moves to suit your weaknesses--it's their job to exploit your weaknesses--and it's your job to compensate for those weaknesses and find theirs.

Whining about it does nothing for your cause, your time would be better spent finding a way to make them whine.

[QUOTE="freekninjinc"]

Here we go again.Do You honestly believe the people calling You cheap cant pull off the crap Youre pulling?Seriously,get real.The point is we can and have been just like You,and its no fun to keep playing like that.You sukkas always use the excuse that people who criticize You just cant do what You can.Bull.End of discussion.What are You going to do when it ends up You took longer to figure it out than them?hmmm?Thats gonna sukk.

ChalaFala

What?

It's hard to make a decisive call on something like this, since it's very situational. For example: in a fighting game (that is, a well made fighting game), there are many times where people will call certain things cheap. It's rarely ever really cheap. Even in S0lidSnake's case, while I haven't played too much Killzone 2, picking a specific class and using their strengths efficiently hardly classifies as "cheap". To put it in ssb terms, how many extra rules and guidelines do you need to add before everyone ends up playing Fox vs Fox in Final Destination with no items?

The point is not that someone pulling off "cheap crap" feels like they can do something you can't, it's that 90% of the time, it's a PERFECTLY FAIR part of the game. It's not their job to dumb down their playstyle or stop using specific moves to suit your weaknesses--it's their job to exploit your weaknesses--and it's your job to compensate for those weaknesses and find theirs.

Whining about it does nothing for your cause, your time would be better spent finding a way to make them whine.

Here we go again.Do You honestly believe the people calling You cheap cant pull off the crap Youre pulling?Seriously,get real.The point is we can and have been just like You,and its no fun to keep playing like that.You sukkas always use the excuse that people who criticize You just cant do what You can.Bull.End of discussion.What are You going to do when it ends up You took longer to figure it out than them?hmmm?Thats gonna sukk.

freekninjinc

Like they used to say, "don't get mad, get even."