Am I crazy for thinking Super Mario Sunshine is better than Super Mario 64?

Never played Sunshine myself, though Super mario 64 hasn't exactly aged as well as some other games have, so I could see it.

Couldn't get into Sunshine. I only got 59 Shines and then moved on to beat the game. I just wasn't feeling the level design and objectives. JustPlainLucas

Never played Sunshine myself, though Super mario 64 hasn't exactly aged as well as some other games have, so I could see it.

DJ-Lafleur

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

Never played Sunshine myself, though Super mario 64 hasn't exactly aged as well as some other games have, so I could see it.

spau0588

No games don't change, but they can still "age", in that they not be physically/technically different, but just feel different. Whether it be controls or graphics, games can age in such a way.

The perfect example for me is Goldeneye 64. I loved the sh*t out of that game when I was younger, I played it so much with friends and siblings, it was terrific. But as I grew up and played more games and FPSes, the controls for console shooters evolved, such as with Halo.

I remember like a year or two ago I went to a friend's house and he had an N64 and copy of Goldeneye 64. Me and couple of friends were like "f*ck yeah, we should play this game again!" And when we actually started playing,  my lord it controlled terribly. It felt so clunky and awkward. Trying to shoot was a pain in the a$$. It was just not as fun as it used to be.

You missed outspau0588

Games don't change over time so it can't change other than the cartridge itself. I can go back to Mario 64 anytime and have a blast.spau0588

Sunshine is better than galaxy. Eventhough I like and own both the galaxy games I didn't like how there were sooo many levels. With 64 and sunshine there were around 10 in each which is perfect. Also in galaxy I didn't like running around on planets upside down. I'd rather have a flat piece of land to run around on instead of running in circles. All great games thoughspau0588

Sure it looks great but I see it as a step backwards gameplay-wise

I don't think so. Sunshine is unecessarily hated on and it's a great game.

Super Mario Sunshine had one of the happiest, most relaxing atmospheres of any game I have ever played. Not many people are willing to call out Super Mario 64 because it's a classic. Personally, I agree with you, sir.

No games don't change, but they can still "age", in that they not be physically/technically different, but just feel different. Whether it be controls or graphics, games can age in such a way.

The perfect example for me is Goldeneye 64. I loved the sh*t out of that game when I was younger, I played it so much with friends and siblings, it was terrific. But as I grew up and played more games and FPSes, the controls for console shooters evolved, such as with Halo.

I remember like a year or two ago I went to a friend's house and he had an N64 and copy of Goldeneye 64. Me and couple of friends were like "f*ck yeah, we should play this game again!" And when we actually started playing,  my lord it controlled terribly. It felt so clunky and awkward. Trying to shoot was a pain in the a$$. It was just not as fun as it used to be.

DJ-Lafleur

A lot of N64 games (and 5th generation 3D games in general) aged like sh*t because of the piss poor framerate and the clunky 3D controls, because there's ben so much advancement in thest two areas. Goldeneye 64 is notorious for those two aspects, and if you go back playing Conker's Bad Fur Day, for example, it'll probably be as unplayable because the inconsistent framerate is even worse than in Goldeneye. But Mario 64, albeit simplistic, doesn't have these issues, and it's a enjoyable game. 

If the framerate is solid, and if the 3D controls are simple & tight, 5th generation games can easily be enjoyable right off the bat if they are well designed. That is, if your mindstate can be adujsted to pixelated, low poly graphics. Personally, i don't mind 5th generation graphics at all, if these two issues do not exist, even though i am a PC gamer. 

Mario Sunshine is the absolutely the worst 3d Mario game I had the displeasure of playing. Yes it looked great and the concept was cool but the execution was simply piss poor.

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

No games don't change, but they can still "age", in that they not be physically/technically different, but just feel different. Whether it be controls or graphics, games can age in such a way.

The perfect example for me is Goldeneye 64. I loved the sh*t out of that game when I was younger, I played it so much with friends and siblings, it was terrific. But as I grew up and played more games and FPSes, the controls for console shooters evolved, such as with Halo.

I remember like a year or two ago I went to a friend's house and he had an N64 and copy of Goldeneye 64. Me and couple of friends were like "f*ck yeah, we should play this game again!" And when we actually started playing,  my lord it controlled terribly. It felt so clunky and awkward. Trying to shoot was a pain in the a$$. It was just not as fun as it used to be.

Lucianu

A lot of N64 games (and 5th generation 3D games in general) aged like sh*t because of the piss poor framerate and the clunky 3D controls, because there's ben so much advancement in thest two areas. Goldeneye 64 is notorious for those two aspects, and if you go back playing Conker's Bad Fur Day, for example, it'll probably be as unplayable because the inconsistent framerate is even worse than in Goldeneye. But Mario 64, albeit simplistic, doesn't have these issues, and it's a enjoyable game. 

If the framerate is solid, and if the 3D controls are simple & tight, 5th generation games can easily be enjoyable right off the bat if they are well designed. That is, if your mindstate can be adujsted to pixelated, low poly graphics. Personally, i don't mind 5th generation graphics at all, if these two issues do not exist, even though i am a PC gamer. 

I wouldn't really be able to speak for Super Mario 64, since the only version of that game I played was the DS version.

I think the only two games I could ever really go back to on the N64 now are Ocarina of Time and majora's Mask. The N64 controller really is bad though and probably one of my least favorite controllers ever.

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

Never played Sunshine myself, though Super mario 64 hasn't exactly aged as well as some other games have, so I could see it.

spau0588

Enjoyment of a game is subjective.  Why would that make you crazy?

No, sunshine was my favorite of all the 3d mario platformers

-FLUDD kicked ass, awesome character and tool.

-Levels were more memorable. You can say to a friend "hey, remember that windmill level in mario sunshine." "Oh yeah, my favorite was the theme park one". But in galaxy "Uh, the level with the floating platforms".

-Better story. Okay, so mario games arent about the story, but atleast sunshine was more engaging. Going on vacation, and being framed for a mess, and then this shadow mario guy shows up, and you find out his true identity. Atleast there was some.

Overall, super mario sunshine was the best, I'm just a big fanboy for the game, and blinded as to see how galaxy can be better. As for 64, it might have been better for its time, but overall, not as good as sunshine.

I agree with the OP. I enjoyed Sunshine more.

Then again, I started with teh gamecube, not the N64.

I liked sunshine more than galaxies. 

Also liked windwaker more than ocarina

I agree with the OP. I enjoyed Sunshine more.

Then again, I started with teh gamecube, not the N64.

I liked sunshine more than galaxies. 

Also liked windwaker more than ocarina

Mario Sunshine is the absolutely the worst 3d Mario game I had the displeasure of playing. Yes it looked great and the concept was cool but the execution was simply piss poor.

Pedro

[QUOTE="Pedro"]

Mario Sunshine is the absolutely the worst 3d Mario game I had the displeasure of playing. Yes it looked great and the concept was cool but the execution was simply piss poor.

Black_Knight_00

The game simply lacked the refinement found in the other 3d Marios. Accessing the levels were simply a hassle. It was not a simple go to location A and enter level. The water canon/squirter was undermined by allowing the tank to run out of water. The camera controls were less that ideal. Yoshi was practically useless and required too much initial investment to simply use him.  The game looked great and I enjoyed the music and the overall controls but the game as a whole was simply a mess.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="Pedro"]

Mario Sunshine is the absolutely the worst 3d Mario game I had the displeasure of playing. Yes it looked great and the concept was cool but the execution was simply piss poor.

Pedro

The game simply lacked the refinement found in the other 3d Marios. Accessing the levels were simply a hassle. It was not a simple go to location A and enter level. The water canon/squirter was undermined by allowing the tank to run out of water. The camera controls were less that ideal. Yoshi was practically useless and required too much initial investment to simply use him.  The game looked great and I enjoyed the music and the overall controls but the game as a whole was simply a mess.

None of those points seem in any way valid to me: levels were meant to be discovered, which is why the entrances were less obvious, making the water gun infinite would have broken the game and removed any challenge and strategy, the camera is the exact same as the one in Zelda Wind Waker and is massively superior to the one in Mario 64 and even Galaxy, Yoshi is just a bonus and it was the first instance of it being controllable in 3D, I don't see why complain. I don't see anything warranting the definition of "mess" concerning Mario Sunshine.Black_Knight_00

It should never be a hassle to get into a level. We play Mario games for the levels not for finding the levels. The first few were easy to access the later a unecessarily involved. 

Infinite water gun would not have broken the game. The older Mario, modern 2D Mario and even in Galaxy the powers are infiinite. The challenge remained and these games weren't broken. The water gun is fun and it should not have been nerfed. The levels should have been designed around it with the intention of it being infinite.

I found the camera to be the weakest of all the 3D Marios so, I guess we would have to part ways on that one. :)

It makes no sense to me to include something as a bonus that is not only tedious but generally useless. The use of Yoshi in SMW was nothing short of excellence. The implementation in Sunshine is gimmicky and severely lacking when compared to the previous use of Yoshi. It doesn't matter if it was the first 3D implementation, it was still poorly implemented.

So I guess, my "mess" is your treasure :P.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] None of those points seem in any way valid to me: levels were meant to be discovered, which is why the entrances were less obvious, making the water gun infinite would have broken the game and removed any challenge and strategy, the camera is the exact same as the one in Zelda Wind Waker and is massively superior to the one in Mario 64 and even Galaxy, Yoshi is just a bonus and it was the first instance of it being controllable in 3D, I don't see why complain. I don't see anything warranting the definition of "mess" concerning Mario Sunshine.Pedro

It should never be a hassle to get into a level. We play Mario games for the levels not for finding the levels. The first few were easy to access the later a unecessarily involved. 

Infinite water gun would not have broken the game. The older Mario, modern 2D Mario and even in Galaxy the powers are infiinite. The challenge remained and these games weren't broken. The water gun is fun and it should not have been nerfed. The levels should have been designed around it with the intention of it being infinite.

I found the camera to be the weakest of all the 3D Marios so, I guess we would have to part ways on that one. :)

It makes no sense to me to include something as a bonus that is not only tedious but generally useless. The use of Yoshi in SMW was nothing short of excellence. The implementation in Sunshine is gimmicky and severely lacking when compared to the previous use of Yoshi. It doesn't matter if it was the first 3D implementation, it was still poorly implemented.

So I guess, my "mess" is your treasure :P.

I don't see how the camera in Sunshine can be the weakest of all 3D mario games: in Mario 64 it was just a prototype which had a will of its own and Galaxy doesn't even have camera control for the most part. Powers in previous Mario games were infinite (even then: it depends) because you lose them as soon as you get it once, whereas you can't lose the water gun. Making it infinite would mean that people would have kept the R button pressed for the whole game without any need for strategy or timing.Black_Knight_00

It is possible that my experience with the camera was different to yours but it wasn't particularly good when I played. With regards to the infinite water gun. I would have liked if the game was designed with it being infinite in mind, allowing gamers to enjoy the mechanics while still being challenged. I really liked the concept and the way it handled quite a lot. But, I think it could have been exploited significantly more. What aspects of the game appealed to you?

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] I don't see how the camera in Sunshine can be the weakest of all 3D mario games: in Mario 64 it was just a prototype which had a will of its own and Galaxy doesn't even have camera control for the most part. Powers in previous Mario games were infinite (even then: it depends) because you lose them as soon as you get it once, whereas you can't lose the water gun. Making it infinite would mean that people would have kept the R button pressed for the whole game without any need for strategy or timing.Pedro

It is possible that my experience with the camera was different to yours but it wasn't particularly good when I played. With regards to the infinite water gun. I would have liked if the game was designed with it being infinite in mind, allowing gamers to enjoy the mechanics while still being challenged. I really liked the concept and the way it handled quite a lot. But, I think it could have been exploited significantly more. What aspects of the game appealed to you?

Big open levels, lots of acrobatics, great caribbean-theme, amazing visuals, sharp controls... it's the natural evolution of the Mario 64 formula (as opposed to the linear, scripted nature of Galaxy) what's there not to like?Black_Knight_00

The parts I mentioned before :P. 

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] Big open levels, lots of acrobatics, great caribbean-theme, amazing visuals, sharp controls... it's the natural evolution of the Mario 64 formula (as opposed to the linear, scripted nature of Galaxy) what's there not to like?Pedro

The parts I mentioned before :P. 

[QUOTE="Pedro"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] Big open levels, lots of acrobatics, great caribbean-theme, amazing visuals, sharp controls... it's the natural evolution of the Mario 64 formula (as opposed to the linear, scripted nature of Galaxy) what's there not to like?Black_Knight_00

The parts I mentioned before :P. 

I'm on your side. The game is downright brilliant. The controls, and camera, are more refined than 64, and the dive move was still there which allowed for more finesse character control compared to galaxy. I do like Galaxy though--it's probably got the tightest pure 3d platforming, but Sunshine has it all--the platforming and the larger open world type segments. The grafitti Mario was also really well done.Heirren

The private jet that Princess Peach and her entourage used to travel to Nutcase Island (I forget its real name but based on what I can remember of its inhabitants this is as apt a description as any) was simply adorable. Not sure what it says about her carbon footprint, though. I wonder if the Mushroom Kingdom has a version of the Sierra Club. "Yes to green hills and free, untamed Parakoopas! No to large green pipes and brick squares hovering inexplicably in mid air!"

To each their own.

I've always loved Mario games but paradoxically, the only thing I can clearly remember about Sunshine was how forgettable it was.