About Panzer Dragoon Saga's source code

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#1 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -

I'm sure you're all aware that Panzer Dragoon Saga is considered to be one of Sega's best RPGs and one of it's rarest (suposodely it sold less then 100K in the US)

And for those who may not know, Sega has admitted to have lost the game's source code

okay, so here's my question: I've seen a lot of people on forums say that it's impossible to port the game to newer systems without the source code, so here's my question: Are you telling me that without the source code, Sega can't create say... a saturn emulator for the PS3/360 and launch several of it's saturn games on XBLA or PSN? is it impossible to build a saturn emulator that runs Panzer Dragoon Saga without the game's source code?

or if raw power is the issue... just wait until the PS4 and xbox 720 are out and then launch the emulator :P

#3 Posted by Dudersaper (32949 posts) -
Emulators don't really need the games source code to run the games, so I'm guessing if they did manage to create the emulator then t would be perfectly possible.
#4 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -
Emulators don't really need the games source code to run the games, so I'm guessing if they did manage to create the emulator then t would be perfectly possible. Dudersaper
hopefully sega will get one running for next gen, I'd love to buy Panzer Dragoon Saga on XBLA, or better yet, on a saturn physical compilation :P
#5 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

creating an emulator of a complicated system for systems which are complex and frankly , not capable of decent Saturn emulation , would not end well.

a decent PC might be able to handle it (hint : a emulation of the game on the PC) , but not the current consoles.

the other problem is , of course, sales, part of the reason youre not seeing hordes of Saturn games on XBLA/PSN , is exactly because Sega believes they will not sell that well.

#6 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -

creating an emulator of a complicated system for systems which are complex and frankly , not capable of decent Saturn emulation , would not end well.

a decent PC might be able to handle it (hint : a emulation of the game on the PC) , but not the current consoles.

the other problem is , of course, sales, part of the reason youre not seeing hordes of Saturn games on XBLA/PSN , is exactly because Sega believes they will not sell that well.

Darkman2007

the 360 and PS3 are not capable of saturn emulation? :?

I'm surprised, I mean I know the Saturn is a complex console, but it's running off of hardware that's almost 20 years old

still, I at least hope that next gen systems will be able to run saturn emulators

#7 Posted by Dudersaper (32949 posts) -
I remember them making a Saturn emulator for the original XBOX, it ran at like 2fps, I don't know exactly how much more powerful the 360 is, but that might help to roughly figure out if the 360 is possibly capable of running a Saturn emulator. But yeah, if not this gen, it would still be cool to at least see next gen.
#8 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -

I remember them making a Saturn emulator for the original XBOX, it ran at like 2fps, I don't know exactly how much more powerful the 360 is, but that might help to roughly figure out if the 360 is possibly capable of running a Saturn emulator. But yeah, if not this gen, it would still be cool to at least see next gen.Dudersaper

well the original xbox had 64MB of ram while the 360 has 512+10

I also know that the original xbox was basically a Pentium III while the 360 is a three-core system

that's about it :P

#9 Posted by GulliversTravel (3062 posts) -
[QUOTE="Dudersaper"]I remember them making a Saturn emulator for the original XBOX, it ran at like 2fps, I don't know exactly how much more powerful the 360 is, but that might help to roughly figure out if the 360 is possibly capable of running a Saturn emulator. But yeah, if not this gen, it would still be cool to at least see next gen.

The Saturn is an incredibly complex system which is why its so difficult to emulate. Still on a decent system it should run flawless. Take a look at PCSX2, the PS2 was by far the weakest of the three consoles of the gen and yet getting a working emulator took a very long time. The Wii on the other hand given it was just a higher clocked GC, had emulation from very early in its lifetime as all they had to do was extend their work already done.
#10 Posted by Eikichi-Onizuka (8022 posts) -
My dream is to see all the Panzer Dragoon games on one disc, I would definitely buy that.
#11 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

creating an emulator of a complicated system for systems which are complex and frankly , not capable of decent Saturn emulation , would not end well.

a decent PC might be able to handle it (hint : a emulation of the game on the PC) , but not the current consoles.

the other problem is , of course, sales, part of the reason youre not seeing hordes of Saturn games on XBLA/PSN , is exactly because Sega believes they will not sell that well.

rilpas

the 360 and PS3 are not capable of saturn emulation? :?

I'm surprised, I mean I know the Saturn is a complex console, but it's running off of hardware that's almost 20 years old

still, I at least hope that next gen systems will be able to run saturn emulators

its not just complex, its just odd, there were also bugs and such in the system , believe it or not, but the Saturn has the capabiltiy for transparency (unlike what is generally thought) , but the feature is glitched, and causes all sorts of problems in the game (I personally talked to someone who worked on Wipeout 2097 on the system).two different kinds of RAM on the same system , odd way to draw the graphics, its a bit of mess. and its not just a matter of wheter the system is capable, assume it is, what you would end up is something not even close to perfect, you would get something thats decent at best (the PS2 had big issues emulating the PS2 because of the same reasons) in addition think about it from Sega's position , whats more profitable? they could work hard, make a less than perfect emulated game which isn't going to sell that well beyond a market of traditional Sega fans, or they could do alot less work , and just make another Mega Drive compilation.
#12 Posted by JigglyWiggly_ (23555 posts) -
sure they could is it worth it? probably not
#13 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

creating an emulator of a complicated system for systems which are complex and frankly , not capable of decent Saturn emulation , would not end well.

a decent PC might be able to handle it (hint : a emulation of the game on the PC) , but not the current consoles.

the other problem is , of course, sales, part of the reason youre not seeing hordes of Saturn games on XBLA/PSN , is exactly because Sega believes they will not sell that well.

Darkman2007

the 360 and PS3 are not capable of saturn emulation? :?

I'm surprised, I mean I know the Saturn is a complex console, but it's running off of hardware that's almost 20 years old

still, I at least hope that next gen systems will be able to run saturn emulators

its not just complex, its just odd, there were also bugs and such in the system , believe it or not, but the Saturn has the capabiltiy for transparency (unlike what is generally thought) , but the feature is glitched, and causes all sorts of problems in the game (I personally talked to someone who worked on Wipeout 2097 on the system).two different kinds of RAM on the same system , odd way to draw the graphics, its a bit of mess. and its not just a matter of wheter the system is capable, assume it is, what you would end up is something not even close to perfect, you would get something thats decent at best (the PS2 had big issues emulating the PS2 because of the same reasons) in addition think about it from Sega's position , whats more profitable? they could work hard, make a less than perfect emulated game which isn't going to sell that well beyond a market of traditional Sega fans, or they could do alot less work , and just make another Mega Drive compilation.

well, they did just port Nights into Dreams, so it's possible there's more to come :P

#14 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="rilpas"]

the 360 and PS3 are not capable of saturn emulation? :?

I'm surprised, I mean I know the Saturn is a complex console, but it's running off of hardware that's almost 20 years old

still, I at least hope that next gen systems will be able to run saturn emulators

rilpas

its not just complex, its just odd, there were also bugs and such in the system , believe it or not, but the Saturn has the capabiltiy for transparency (unlike what is generally thought) , but the feature is glitched, and causes all sorts of problems in the game (I personally talked to someone who worked on Wipeout 2097 on the system).two different kinds of RAM on the same system , odd way to draw the graphics, its a bit of mess. and its not just a matter of wheter the system is capable, assume it is, what you would end up is something not even close to perfect, you would get something thats decent at best (the PS2 had big issues emulating the PS2 because of the same reasons) in addition think about it from Sega's position , whats more profitable? they could work hard, make a less than perfect emulated game which isn't going to sell that well beyond a market of traditional Sega fans, or they could do alot less work , and just make another Mega Drive compilation.

well, they did just port Nights into Dreams, so it's possible there's more to come :P

thats a port, different from emulation. actually, I wonder if its even based on the Saturn version , there were apparently a PC version in the works at some point (cancelled for one reason or another) , so Im wondering if its that version its based on , or if its the original Saturn.

also , this is Nights, one of the most famous (though somewhat overrated) games on the system.

#15 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] its not just complex, its just odd, there were also bugs and such in the system , believe it or not, but the Saturn has the capabiltiy for transparency (unlike what is generally thought) , but the feature is glitched, and causes all sorts of problems in the game (I personally talked to someone who worked on Wipeout 2097 on the system).two different kinds of RAM on the same system , odd way to draw the graphics, its a bit of mess. and its not just a matter of wheter the system is capable, assume it is, what you would end up is something not even close to perfect, you would get something thats decent at best (the PS2 had big issues emulating the PS2 because of the same reasons) in addition think about it from Sega's position , whats more profitable? they could work hard, make a less than perfect emulated game which isn't going to sell that well beyond a market of traditional Sega fans, or they could do alot less work , and just make another Mega Drive compilation.Darkman2007

well, they did just port Nights into Dreams, so it's possible there's more to come :P

thats a port, different from emulation. actually, I wonder if its even based on the Saturn version , there were apparently a PC version in the works at some point (cancelled for one reason or another) , so Im wondering if its that version its based on , or if its the original Saturn.

also , this is Nights, one of the most famous (though somewhat overrated) games on the system.

ah I see, so you can't port a game unless you have the source code?

#17 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]well, they did just port Nights into Dreams, so it's possible there's more to come :P

rilpas

thats a port, different from emulation. actually, I wonder if its even based on the Saturn version , there were apparently a PC version in the works at some point (cancelled for one reason or another) , so Im wondering if its that version its based on , or if its the original Saturn.

also , this is Nights, one of the most famous (though somewhat overrated) games on the system.

ah I see, so you can't port a game unless you have the source code?

not really, thats really what a port is, it obviously uses alot of the original code. well ,there are ports which do not, but they are not really ports per se, like Duke3D and Quake on the Saturn , which while its officially a port, it actually uses a whole new engine, and shares almost nothing with the PC original (or the other console versions), so its almost like a new game.
#18 Posted by JigglyWiggly_ (23555 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]well, they did just port Nights into Dreams, so it's possible there's more to come :P

rilpas

thats a port, different from emulation. actually, I wonder if its even based on the Saturn version , there were apparently a PC version in the works at some point (cancelled for one reason or another) , so Im wondering if its that version its based on , or if its the original Saturn.

also , this is Nights, one of the most famous (though somewhat overrated) games on the system.

ah I see, so you can't port a game unless you have the source code?

how are you supposed to compile something if you don't have the source code...?
#19 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"]Emulators don't really need the games source code to run the games, so I'm guessing if they did manage to create the emulator then t would be perfectly possible. rilpas
hopefully sega will get one running for next gen, I'd love to buy Panzer Dragoon Saga on XBLA, or better yet, on a saturn physical compilation :P

even then, pds is very unlikely as the game is not anywhere near their a-list. not even shenmue gets ported/emulated, then good luck.

#20 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

thats a port, different from emulation. actually, I wonder if its even based on the Saturn version , there were apparently a PC version in the works at some point (cancelled for one reason or another) , so Im wondering if its that version its based on , or if its the original Saturn.

also , this is Nights, one of the most famous (though somewhat overrated) games on the system.

JigglyWiggly_

ah I see, so you can't port a game unless you have the source code?

how are you supposed to compile something if you don't have the source code...?

new engine and assets? :P

#21 Posted by JigglyWiggly_ (23555 posts) -

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"][QUOTE="rilpas"]ah I see, so you can't port a game unless you have the source code?

rilpas

how are you supposed to compile something if you don't have the source code...?

new engine and assets? :P

that's not a port that's a remake
#22 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="rilpas"]

the 360 and PS3 are not capable of saturn emulation? :?

I'm surprised, I mean I know the Saturn is a complex console, but it's running off of hardware that's almost 20 years old

still, I at least hope that next gen systems will be able to run saturn emulators

rilpas

its not just complex, its just odd, there were also bugs and such in the system , believe it or not, but the Saturn has the capabiltiy for transparency (unlike what is generally thought) , but the feature is glitched, and causes all sorts of problems in the game (I personally talked to someone who worked on Wipeout 2097 on the system).two different kinds of RAM on the same system , odd way to draw the graphics, its a bit of mess. and its not just a matter of wheter the system is capable, assume it is, what you would end up is something not even close to perfect, you would get something thats decent at best (the PS2 had big issues emulating the PS2 because of the same reasons) in addition think about it from Sega's position , whats more profitable? they could work hard, make a less than perfect emulated game which isn't going to sell that well beyond a market of traditional Sega fans, or they could do alot less work , and just make another Mega Drive compilation.

well, they did just port Nights into Dreams, so it's possible there's more to come :P

that's a sport. impossible to do by pds, as the source code is gone and the game had a big multi million dollar budget. unlikely they will ever recreate it

#23 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"][QUOTE="rilpas"]ah I see, so you can't port a game unless you have the source code?

rilpas

how are you supposed to compile something if you don't have the source code...?

new engine and assets? :P

that will never happen, as saga was incredibly expensive to make. supposedly the most expensive game sega made for the saturn and it shows too. just burn the game and play it on your saturn if you really want it. I'm glad I have my original game though. only shenmue (2) is better of all the games I played

#24 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"][QUOTE="rilpas"]ah I see, so you can't port a game unless you have the source code?

rilpas

how are you supposed to compile something if you don't have the source code...?

new engine and assets? :P

then you may as well make a brand new game, money doesn't grow on trees sadly.
#25 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -
*sighs* guess it's unlikely we'll ever have a port of the game
#26 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -
*sighs* guess it's unlikely we'll ever have a port of the gamerilpas
like I said, maybe emulated , possibly on a next gen system or on the PC .
#27 Posted by logicalfrank (1641 posts) -

I'd be just as happy to see an all new game in the series or even a remake.

#28 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

I'd be just as happy to see an all new game in the series or even a remake.

logicalfrank

Crimson Dragon is the spiritual successor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XItU6lre9x4

It's Kinect bound tho.

#29 Posted by godzillavskong (7899 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="rilpas"]

the 360 and PS3 are not capable of saturn emulation? :?

I'm surprised, I mean I know the Saturn is a complex console, but it's running off of hardware that's almost 20 years old

still, I at least hope that next gen systems will be able to run saturn emulators

rilpas

its not just complex, its just odd, there were also bugs and such in the system , believe it or not, but the Saturn has the capabiltiy for transparency (unlike what is generally thought) , but the feature is glitched, and causes all sorts of problems in the game (I personally talked to someone who worked on Wipeout 2097 on the system).two different kinds of RAM on the same system , odd way to draw the graphics, its a bit of mess. and its not just a matter of wheter the system is capable, assume it is, what you would end up is something not even close to perfect, you would get something thats decent at best (the PS2 had big issues emulating the PS2 because of the same reasons) in addition think about it from Sega's position , whats more profitable? they could work hard, make a less than perfect emulated game which isn't going to sell that well beyond a market of traditional Sega fans, or they could do alot less work , and just make another Mega Drive compilation.

well, they did just port Nights into Dreams, so it's possible there's more to come :P

Yep. Although I really prefer to play those classic games on the system they were built for. The trouble is, that's a VERY expensive game! I'm still trying to catch a deal on Guardian Heroes. I know it's available on Xbox live and PSN, but I really prefer the classic system.
#30 Posted by JigglyWiggly_ (23555 posts) -
[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] its not just complex, its just odd, there were also bugs and such in the system , believe it or not, but the Saturn has the capabiltiy for transparency (unlike what is generally thought) , but the feature is glitched, and causes all sorts of problems in the game (I personally talked to someone who worked on Wipeout 2097 on the system).two different kinds of RAM on the same system , odd way to draw the graphics, its a bit of mess. and its not just a matter of wheter the system is capable, assume it is, what you would end up is something not even close to perfect, you would get something thats decent at best (the PS2 had big issues emulating the PS2 because of the same reasons) in addition think about it from Sega's position , whats more profitable? they could work hard, make a less than perfect emulated game which isn't going to sell that well beyond a market of traditional Sega fans, or they could do alot less work , and just make another Mega Drive compilation.godzillavskong

well, they did just port Nights into Dreams, so it's possible there's more to come :P

Yep. Although I really prefer to play those classic games on the system they were built for. The trouble is, that's a VERY expensive game! I'm still trying to catch a deal on Guardian Heroes. I know it's available on Xbox live and PSN, but I really prefer the classic system.

i don't think anyone is going to care about piracy for a completely dead system where the publishersd/devs can't even make money off it
#31 Posted by godzillavskong (7899 posts) -
[QUOTE="godzillavskong"][QUOTE="rilpas"]well, they did just port Nights into Dreams, so it's possible there's more to come :PJigglyWiggly_
Yep. Although I really prefer to play those classic games on the system they were built for. The trouble is, that's a VERY expensive game! I'm still trying to catch a deal on Guardian Heroes. I know it's available on Xbox live and PSN, but I really prefer the classic system.

i don't think anyone is going to care about piracy for a completely dead system where the publishersd/devs can't even make money off it

You lost me there? I wasn't referring to piracy at all. I was talking about getting the original versions off of Amazon or EBay, not pirating. Unless you meant to quote someone else?
#32 Posted by JigglyWiggly_ (23555 posts) -
[QUOTE="godzillavskong"][QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"][QUOTE="godzillavskong"] Yep. Although I really prefer to play those classic games on the system they were built for. The trouble is, that's a VERY expensive game! I'm still trying to catch a deal on Guardian Heroes. I know it's available on Xbox live and PSN, but I really prefer the classic system.

i don't think anyone is going to care about piracy for a completely dead system where the publishersd/devs can't even make money off it

You lost me there? I wasn't referring to piracy at all. I was talking about getting the original versions off of Amazon or EBay, not pirating. Unless you meant to quote someone else?

i did mean to quote you just totally not giving suggestions
#33 Posted by G-Lord (2134 posts) -

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"] how are you supposed to compile something if you don't have the source code...?JigglyWiggly_

new engine and assets? :P

that's not a port that's a remake

PDS is one of the games that would be worth remaking imo. I highly doubt that this will ever happen though.

P.S.: Kudos for the Hand of Fate sig rilpas ;)

#34 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -
P.S.: Kudos for the Hand of Fate sig rilpas ;)G-Lord
one of my favourite games ever :D
#35 Posted by Elveon29 (3 posts) -

There is still hope to see Panzer Remastered :)

Read this

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469023 

#36 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

There is still hope to see Panzer Remastered :)

Read this

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469023 

Elveon29

 

what's the point of this? through emulaiton I assume? panzer dragoon saga already worked on pc via emulation 10 years ago

#37 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -
They could take some Code from the ISO and use it to create a remake.