SPYGATE NEWS: (WMSC Transcripts Available Here)

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Redders1989

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#1 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

Formula 1's on-going spy scandal has taken a sensational new twist after the FIA announced on Wednesday that it is to re-open the investigation into a breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting code by the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes team.

The world championship leaders were found guilty at the previous hearing of possessing confidential information belonging to Ferrari, but were not punished because the FIA had insufficient evidence to prove that the team had acted upon it in any way.

However the case, which was set for appeal on September 13, has now been referred back to the World Motor Sport Council after the FIA announced it had received new evidence on the matter.

For the record, FIA president Max Mosley's application for appeal has been withdrawn.

The sport's governing body warned in its previous verdict on the matter on July 26 that should new evidence come to light linking McLaren to the actions of the two individuals at the centre of the scandal - former Ferrari employee Nigel Stepney and McLaren's suspended technical director Mike Coughlan - then the team could face severe sanctions.

The nature of the evidence, and it's origin, remains unclear, but should McLaren be found guilty in the second hearing, then it could face a lengthy period of disqualification.

"If it is found in the future that the Ferrari information has been used to the detriment of the championship, we reserve the right to invite Vodafone McLaren Mercedes back in front of the WMSC where it will face the possibility of exclusion from not only the 2007 championship but also the 2008 championship," read the statement at the time.

Both Coughlin and Stepney were also invited by the FIA,in the first hearing,to give reason why they shouldnot be banned from internationmotor sportfor a lenghty period.

This latest news comes just days before the Italian Grand Prix and will undoubtedly put McLaren under further public scrutiny in a season where the team has been beset by controversy on and off the track.

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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Redders1989

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#2 Redders1989
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McLAREN TO CO-OPERATE WITH FIA:

McLaren has promised to continue to co-operate with the FIA, following the governing body's announcement that it intends to re-open the spy-gate investigation.

The FIAannounced thatnew evidence has come to light sinceit foundthe team guilty of breaching Article 151c of the Sporting Codeon July 26 afterMcLaren's suspended technical director was caught in possession ofconfidential Ferrari documents.

At the time of the first hearing the FIA warnedit would re-invite McLaren to appearbefore the World MotorSport Councilshould any further evidence be uncovered that Ferrari's information was used to the detriment of the world championship.

McLaren, and its team principal Ron Dennis, have maintained their innocence through-out the affair, and released a statement on Thursday saying: "McLaren Racing has been made aware that new evidence has been presented to the FIA as part of their on-going investigation.

"As a result we have been informed that the Court of Appeal Hearing scheduled for the 13th September in Paris will now comprise a meeting of the WMSC.

"McLaren will continue to co-operate fully with the FIA."

The nature of the evidence, and it's origin, remains unclear, but should McLaren be found guilty in the second hearing, then it could face disqualification from the 2007 and 2008 world championships.

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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Redders1989

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#3 Redders1989
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MAGISTRATE LINKS STEPNEY TO SABOTAGE:

An Italian magistrate believes he has gained "reasonable proof" that former Ferrari engineer Nigel Stepney is linked to the attempted sabotage of the team's cars before the Monaco Grand Prix.

Ferrari has launched legal proceedings against its former stalwart, with Stepney - who has maintained his innocence throughout - accused of allegedly tampering with their cars' fuel rigs before the Monaco weekend and passing confidential information to McLaren's suspended chief designer Mike Coughlan.

The magistrate looking in to the case says after studying white powerfoundin the fuel and on Stepney's trousers, he believes he has gained enough evidence for the case to continue.

"We have reasonable proof that Stepney was involved in this," Giuseppe Tibiswas quoted as saying by the Guardian newspaper on Wednesday.

"We found powder in the fuel, while such a modest quantity was found on the trousers that I was concerned about destroying evidence and am asking for a further study to be undertaken by a judge," said Tibis.

Stepney was sacked by Ferrari in July after 14 years at the team.

He has continuously denied any wrongdoing in either matter, insisting he didn't leak the data to Coughlan and had been set-up in the sabotage claims.

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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Redders1989

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#4 Redders1989
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ALONSO IMPLICATED IN SPY ROW EVIDENCE:

Speculation is mounting in Monza that world champion Fernando Alonso could be among those at the centre of the spy scandal engulfing Formula 1.

The FIA announced on Wednesday that it had new evidence over the affair and will reconvene the World Motor Sport Council to question McLaren further next Thursday, having already found the team guilty without charge of being in breach of Article 151c of the international sporting code for possessing a confidential Ferrari dossier in July.

The source and nature of the evidence in question has been the subject of intense rumour in the Italian Grand Prix paddock.

But ITV-F1.com understands that it could be linked to an email conversation between Alonso and McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa that contained set-up information on Ferrari's F2007 that pre-dates the dossier incident that sparked the scandal.

The FIA is believed to have been tipped-off to the nature of this email and subsequently sent correspondence to McLaren's drivers, as well as all the teams, reminding them that it was their duty to provide the governing body with information pertaining to the case.

Alonso and de la Rosa are also thought to have been offered an 'amnesty' from any censure in return for their full cooperation.

Alonso was not permitted to answer questions from the press on the matter on Thursday, and McLaren has insisted that itintends to co-operate fully with the FIA.

But if the team is found guilty, the punishments could range from a contructors' points deduction and a heavy fine to a full disqualification from this season and 2008.

Next Thursday's hearing would not bring an end to the matter however as McLaren would almost certainly appeal any such sentence or take the matter to a civil court.

The FIA refused to comment on any correspondence with the McLaren drivers but a spokesman has confirmed that the two men at the centre of the scandal, the sacked Ferrari engineer Nigel Stepney and suspended McLaren technical director Mike Coughlan, have not been summoned to the WMSC hearing next Thursday.

And contrary to reports in the Italian press, though Stepney wrote a letter to the FIA last week, it is not believed to have contributed to the 'new evidence' in question.

Stepney's letter is thought to be connected to his own innocence and Italian newspaper La Reppublica quoted his lawyer Sonia Bartolini as saying: "There is not anything from Ferrari's point of view. This is just the start of the story, the surprises will be many and explosive."

Stepney and Coughlin must still prove to the FIA why they should granted permission to continue working in Formula 1.

"Mr Stepney and Mr Coughlin have not been called to the FIA World Council Meeting," said an FIA spokesman.

"Those proceedings will be dealt with entirely seperately."

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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mjk1

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#5 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts
Alonso's involved as well now, not looking good for mclaren. When is this hearing again ???
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Redders1989

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#6 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts
Well, the appeal WAS going to be September 13th, but now the FIA are starting the case from scratch again because of this new evidence. So I don't know what's going on for hearings etc.
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kalais91

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#7 kalais91
Member since 2006 • 146 Posts

Alonso's involved as well now, not looking good for mclaren. When is this hearing again ???mjk1

C-c-c-c-c-combo breaker :lol:

wouldnt it be better for you 2 to just pm eachother with f1 news? I mean, bar cjek it doesnt look like any1 else here gives a damn :O

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Redders1989

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#8 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

=/

Well checking, it is still the 13th September, as the next post will mention:

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Redders1989

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#9 Redders1989
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FERRARI: THE TRUTH WILL OUT:

Ferrari says it is confident the "truth will out" after confirming that it will attend the re-convened World Motor Sport Council meeting in Paris on September 13, following the FIA's revelation that it has new evidence connected to the spy-gate scandal.

The team released a statement in Monza on Thursday ahead of the Italian Grand Prix which suggesting it believed that not all the facts had yet been heard.

"Ferrari notes the FIA's decision to call an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council to examine new evidence that has emerged with regards to the accusation that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has violated article 151c of the International Sporting Code," read the statement.

"Ferrari will be present at the Council meeting on the 13th September in Paris and wishes to reaffirm its own strong wish that all the elements in this case are brought to light.

"Ferrari is confident that the truth will out."

Star driver Kimi Raikkonen added that he hoped the hearing would draw a line under the affair.

"I don't really know much about the whole thing," he told ITV Sport.

"I heard that there is some new evidence but we just have to wait and see what happens and hopefully whatever is the truth will come out, and they make the right decision."

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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mjk1

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#10 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts

[QUOTE="mjk1"]Alonso's involved as well now, not looking good for mclaren. When is this hearing again ???kalais91

C-c-c-c-c-combo breaker :lol:

wouldnt it be better for you 2 to just pm eachother with f1 news? I mean, bar cjek it doesnt look like any1 else here gives a damn :O

sometimes its looks that way, when their is no race activity really drops here

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kalais91

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#11 kalais91
Member since 2006 • 146 Posts
[QUOTE="kalais91"]

[QUOTE="mjk1"]Alonso's involved as well now, not looking good for mclaren. When is this hearing again ???mjk1

C-c-c-c-c-combo breaker :lol:

wouldnt it be better for you 2 to just pm eachother with f1 news? I mean, bar cjek it doesnt look like any1 else here gives a damn :O

sometimes its looks that way, when their is no race activity really drops here

ugh....yeh..."sometimes" O_o

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KimisApprentice

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#12 KimisApprentice
Member since 2006 • 2425 Posts
Hmmmm hooooboy nothing like this has been in F1 for quite some time huh?
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mjk1

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#13 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts

ugh....yeh..."sometimes" O_o

kalais91

:lol:

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atlessky

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#14 atlessky
Member since 2006 • 567 Posts
This is some bad news for Mclaren.It should be fixed or they are out...
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Redders1989

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#15 Redders1989
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LETTER SENT BY FIA TO ALL THREE VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES DRIVERS:
_______________________________________________________________

BY FAX AND POST 31 August 2007

Dear Mr De La Rosa/Mr Alonso/Mr Hamilton

As you will be aware, the FIA has recently investigated whether, how and to what extent McLaren was in possession of confidential Ferrari technical information. The FIA has subsequently been made aware of an allegation that one or more McLaren drivers may be in possession, or that such drivers have recently been in possession, of written evidence relevant to this investigation.

In the interests of the sport and the Championship it is important that the FIA as the regulator establishes unequivocally and rapidly whether or not this allegation has any basis in fact. The FIA therefore formally requests that you produce copies of any relevant documents which may be in your possession or power of procurement and which may be relevant to this case. For these purposes "documents" includes all written materials such as emails, letters, electronic communications, text messages, notes, memoranda, drawings, diagrams, data,. or other material, stored in any physical, "hard copy" or electronic form.

In particular (though without limiting the generality of this request), the FIA wishes to receive copies of any electronic communications (howsoever conveyed or stored) which may be relevant to this case and which make reference to Ferrari, Nigel Stepney or any technical or other information coming from or connected with either Ferrari or Mr Stepney. In the event that you are aware of the existence or previous existence of any document falling within the above description but are not in a position to produce it, please describe the content of the document in question, the circumstances under which it came to your knowledge and the reasons why you are unable to produce it. In the event that you are unsure as to whether any document falls within the above description, kindly submit it (or a description of it) and the FIA will assist in making a determination.

You will appreciate that there is a duty on all competitors and Super Licence holders to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the Formula One World Championship. It is therefore imperative that if you do have any such information, you make it available to us without delay. I can confirm, given the importance of this issue, that any information you may make available in response to this letter will not result in any proceedings against you under the International Sporting Code or the Formula One regulations. However, in the event that it later comes to light that you have withheld any potentially relevant information, serious consequences could follow.

Yours sincerely

Max Mosley

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Redders1989

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#16 Redders1989
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McLAREN OFFICIALLY UNDER INVESTIGATION:

McLaren have been served notice they are under investigation by Modena prosecutors in relation to the Formula One spying affair.

Team officials were visited by officers of the court in the paddock at Monza on the eve of Sunday's Italian Grand Prix.

A spokesman confirmed: "The team was informed on Saturday evening they are involved in an ongoing investigation."

The incident came within hours of Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton securing the front row for the race.

McLaren face a second World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris on Thursday after new evidence recently surfaced into the fact they were caught in possession of the technical information.

In a worst case scenario, championship leaders McLaren could be kicked out of the championship this year and next.

The team were found guilty of fraudulent conduct, but no penalty was imposed due to insufficient evidence.

SOURCE: BBC

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cjek

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#17 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts
Well, it's here, the hearing. The championship could effectively be decided today. Lets hope nobody has actually cheated in the championship, and it can all return to normal this weekend.
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cjek

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#18 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts

16:42 UPDATE: McLaren have been suspended from the 2007 and 2008 seasons.. it's unclear whether that means being suspended from point scoring, and whether it applies to their drivers, but we can assume that this is the case. Ferarri have won the constructors' championship it would seem.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2726626,00.html

16:56 UPDATE: Sky News have reported that the above news is simply a rumour, and that the FIA are denying such news. Apparently they are still deliberating over the case, so officially, they have not yet been suspended

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Redders1989

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#19 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts
Upon checking, that is the only website to have said McLaren are Excluded, so in the meantime everything to do with the announcement will start with "Unofficial" until proper confirmation, preferably from Formula 1's official website, is made.
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cjek

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#20 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts
17:26 UPDATE: Reports suggest that an exclusion has been proposed as a potential punishment, but not actually given, according to Planet-F1 and the BBC. This effectively means that we're in the same situation as we were after the previous hearing. Sky News and BBC News say that we're not too far from hearing the result.
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mjk1

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#21 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts

News i just heard on BBC NEWS 24

Mclaren fined $100,000,000

Mclaren loose all their constructors points

Hamilton & Alonso will not loose any points

The team must also prove there is no Ferrari 'intellectual property' in its cars next year before they can race.

EDIT: McLaren team chief Ron Dennis is due to speak at a 1915 BST news conference.

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cjek

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#22 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts
That's a massive penalty for the team; it will definitely hit them hard. And I think it's fair to be honest. They have been penalised because they were in possession of illegally obtained documents, and the drivers have escaped penalty because there is little or even no evidence that McLaren's cars benefited from the documents.
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mjk1

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#23 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts
press conference at 7.15pm lets see what Ron has to say
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XSamFisherX

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#24 XSamFisherX
Member since 2003 • 3414 Posts
So does this mean McLaren will get numbers 24 and 25 next year or 22 and 23.
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yuxwallin

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#25 yuxwallin
Member since 2006 • 385 Posts

I think that the world champ has the no 1 on his car, although this may change with the McLaren penalty. If Hamilton wins the championship, therefore, they should have 1 and 2. However, Alonso will probably leave the team next year, and may go back to Renault. If so, McLaren will probably take the numbers 24 and 25 if he wins the world title.

I don't think that McLaren have been suspended for the 2008 season. Provided their car is legal, they should be allowed to score constructors' points as normal.

If Alonso wins the title, the numbering will look something like this(based on current world title predictions and predictions of drivers)

RENAULT: 1 Fernando Alonso, 2 Heikki Kovalainen

FERRARI: 3 Kimi Raikkonen 4 Felipe Massa (if they finish in this order)

BMW: 5 Nick Heidfeld 6 Robert Kubica

WILLIAMS: 7 Alex Wurz? 8 Nico Rosberg

RED BULL: 9 David Coulthard 10 Mark Webber

TOYOTA: 11 Jarno Trulli 12 Ralf Schumacher? Alex Wurz? Giancarlo Fisichella?

SUPER AGURI: 14 Takuma Sato 15 Anthony Davidson

HONDA: 16 Jenson Button 17 Rubens Barrichello

STR: 18 Sebastian Vettel 19 Sebastian Bourdais

SPYKER: 20 Adrian Sutil 21 Unknown

PRODRIVE: 22 Unknown 23 Unknown

MCLAREN: 24 Lewis Hamilton 25 Pedro de la Rosa? Gary Paffett? Someone else?

Of course, this may change if the championship positions change.

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XSamFisherX

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#26 XSamFisherX
Member since 2003 • 3414 Posts

Oh, duh... I completely forgot about the whole champion getting the #1 car.

I came up with a good analogy for the penalty. It is almost as if you had walked into a casino with loaded dice, played Craps, won a boatload of money, the casino finds out you had loaded dice and takes the dice away but lets you keep you winnings.

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cjek

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#27 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts

Oh, duh... I completely forgot about the whole champion getting the #1 car.

I came up with a good analogy for the penalty. It is almost as if you had walked into a casino with loaded dice, played Craps, won a boatload of money, the casino finds out you had loaded dice and takes the dice away but lets you keep you winnings.

XSamFisherX

I don't really agree. McLaren have been correctly penalised for spying. This does not imply cheating at all, so how does it affect the winnings? There was no evidence to suggest that this spying produced any changes in McLaren's cars or setups, so why punish the drivers?

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mjk1

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#28 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts

The full statement by the FIA

In an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council was held in Paris on the 12th of September 2007, The following decision was taken:

"The WMSC has stripped Vodafone McLaren Mercedes of all constructors' points in the 2007 FIA Formula One World Championshiop an the team can score no point for the remainder of the season *.

"Furthermore, the team will pay a fine equal to 100 million dollar, less the FOM income lost as a result of the points deduction.

"However, due to the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the team's drivers an immunity in return for providing evidence, there is no penalty in regards to drivers' points **.

"The WMSC will receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car and will take a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction, if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season."

The full reasons for this decision will be issued on the 14th September 2007.

* Points gained by other teams so far this season will not be affected.

** No McLaren representative will be allowed on the podium should a McLaren driver win in any of the remaining races of the 2007 season.

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comp_atkins

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#29 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38696 Posts
holy crap.. $100M is a lotta money.
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Redders1989

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#30 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

DEFIANT DENNIS VOWS TO RACE ON:

McLaren boss Ron Dennis has declared his team will continue to race on in this and coming Formula 1 seasons despite the severe penalties handed to it by the World Motor Sport Council on Thursday.

The Woking squad was stripped of all of its constructors' championship points for 2007 andhit with a record finefollowing the conclusion of the reconvened WMSC hearing into the spying scandal.

However the team's two drivers', Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso, points tallies were not affected by theverdict and the pair are now free to continue their absorbing title duel.

And Dennis has confirmed that the team will be continuing to fight for victories on the race track from this weekend's Belgian Grand Prix onwards.

"The most important thing is that we will be going motor racing this weekend, the rest of the season and every season," Dennis said in a press conference following the hearing in Paris.

"This means that our drivers can continue to compete for the world championship.

"However having been at the hearing today I do not accept that we deserved to be penalised in this way.

"We have got the best drivers and the best car and we intend to win the world championship," he added.

Dennis also reiterated what he and his team have stressed throughout the controversy, that no confidential Ferrari technical data was used on the team's MP4-22 car.

He added that the evidence presented by McLaren team members at Thursday's hearing added further weight to the team's defence.

"Today's evidence given to the FIA by our drivers, engineers and staff clearly demonstrated that we did not use any leaked information to gain a competitive advantage," he said.

"Much has been made in the press and at the hearing today of emails and text messages to and from our drivers.

"The World Motorsport Council received statements from Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Pedro de la Rosa stating categorically that no Ferrari information had been used by McLaren and that they had not passed any confidential data to the team.

"The entire engineering team in excess of 140 people provided statements to the FIA affirming that they had never received or used the Ferrari information.

"We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees at his home.

"The issue is: was this information used by McLaren? This is not the case and has not been proven today.

"We are also continually asked if McLaren didn't use the information, what was the reason for [Nigel] Stepney and [Mike] Coughlan collecting all this data about Ferrari? We can only speculate as neither Coughlan nor Stepney gave evidence at today's hearing, but we do know that they were both seeking employment with other teams, as already confirmed by both Honda and Toyota."

McLaren have also been ordered to present its 2008 car for examination by the FIA before the start of next season to ensure no Ferrari information has been used to enhancenext year'schallenger.

But Dennis says this check will be a formality as McLaren has not used its rival's data on its cars.

"There will be no issue for the 2008 season as we have not at any stage used any intellectual property of any other team," he added.

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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KimisApprentice

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#31 KimisApprentice
Member since 2006 • 2425 Posts

RENAULT: 1 Fernando Alonso, 2 Heikki Kovalainen

FERRARI: 3 Kimi Raikkonen 4 Felipe Massa (if they finish in this order)

BMW: 5 Nick Heidfeld 6 Robert Kubica

WILLIAMS: 7 Alex Wurz? 8 Nico Rosberg

RED BULL: 9 David Coulthard 10 Mark Webber

TOYOTA: 11 Jarno Trulli 12 Ralf Schumacher? Alex Wurz? Giancarlo Fisichella?

SUPER AGURI: 14 Takuma Sato 15 Anthony Davidson

HONDA: 16 Jenson Button 17 Rubens Barrichello

STR: 18 Sebastian Vettel 19 Sebastian Bourdais

SPYKER: 20 Adrian Sutil 21 Unknown

PRODRIVE: 22 Unknown 23 Unknown

MCLAREN: 24 Lewis Hamilton 25 Pedro de la Rosa? Gary Paffett? Someone else?


Er... Pretty sure Alonso has atleast a 2 year contract. Nico Rosberg is 1st driver at Williams atm Barrichello is 1st driver at Honda

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VexxatuVexx

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#32 VexxatuVexx
Member since 2003 • 13348 Posts

One thing that i don't understand is if they took away all the Construction points because they have an illegal car why are the driver still allowed to race with an "illigal" car? I'm a fan of Mecca but i just don't get it why their allowed to race with this car.

I want the sport to be fair and even as a fan of Alonso they shouldn't be allowed with an Illigal car.

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jsaudy

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#33 jsaudy
Member since 2004 • 240 Posts
Do one of you guys know who's gonna cash in those 100 000 000$? If it's Bernie, I won't watch another F1 race again. Max Mosley will start his own championship...
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Redders1989

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#34 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts


Er... Pretty sure Alonso has atleast a 2 year contract. Nico Rosberg is 1st driver at Williams atm Barrichello is 1st driver at Honda

KimisApprentice

Correct, but may walk out on it, Ron has said he can, Correct, and wrong. Button is atm, but they, like Toyota, decide their no. 1 driver by who scored more points the previous season. I dunno if every team does this, but I'm guessing they would.

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mjk1

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#35 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts

Do one of you guys know who's gonna cash in those 100 000 000$? If it's Bernie, I won't watch another F1 race again. Max Mosley will start his own championship...jsaudy

He did say at the press conference that $50m was going to come from the sponsers for the points they have recieved till now and that the company has a annual turnover of roughly $600m, so money wise their are in a good position

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#36 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts

Q & A from Press Conference

Q: Do you feel you're the only team in Formula One who deserve to be punished for this sort of incident?

Martin Whitmarsh: "The starting point is, we do not believe that we should have been punished in this way. And I think today we should just concentrate on this situation, not what's happening to other teams."

Q: Do you think FIA president Max Mosley's attitude has changed from the last World Motor Sport Council meeting (in July)?

Ron Dennis: "I have no comment on that."

Q: What was the new evidence submitted in today's hearing?

Dennis: "The evidence today was primarily email traffic between our drivers. And in one instance - Mike Coughlan."

Whitmarsh: "As we've said earlier, these were a few emails, and the drivers have stated categorically that no information was passed to the team."

Dennis: "And of course the team had no knowledge of this email traffic at any stage."

Q: How damaging financially is the punishment to McLaren?

Dennis: "Firstly, effectively, we will still have as an offset the revenue from the points earned to date. That will effectively half the size of the cheque we have to sign, if we ultimately accept this fine.

"But as you can see if you read our accounts, we turn over roughly $450-500 million USD a year, and we are debt-free, so obviously we are a very strong company with phenomenal growth.

"I jokingly asked [Mercedes motorsport director] Norbert [Haug] if he was going to chip in half, but we haven't really come to a conclusion on that negotiation."

Q: And does today's verdict make you consider your own future?

Dennis: "My personal future was never in question as far as I was concerned. I'm very committed to this company, I'm very passionate about motor racing, and I have absolutely no intention of retiring.

"I've made a firm commitment to Martin (Whitmarsh) to succeed me as CEO, and that decision - whenever it's taken - will not have any bearing on today's affair or any other issues this year."

Q: How is this going to affect the future of your drivers?

Dennis: "We have multi-year contracts with both of our drivers, and there has been no discussion about varying them.

"We have two of the best drivers in the world, and our commitment to winning races is undiminished. That's what we exist to do - to win races.

"And if there is any variation to those contracts, it will be by mutual agreements."

Q: Do you have a feeling that the FIA has held double standards in this decision?

Dennis: "I'm not going to make any comment as to the FIA's findings other than the fact that we are firmly of the opinion that we definitely do not concur with their findings.

"But until we have all the details from the FIA, it is impossible for me to have a position on it.

"They've issued [a statement about] the penalties but they haven't issued the actual findings, and it would be wholly inappropriate for me to make any comment until we have those findings."

SOURCE: AUTOSPORT

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jsaudy

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#37 jsaudy
Member since 2004 • 240 Posts
That I know, but the cheque will be made to WHO? FIA? Bernie? They should distribute this money to the others teams... (except Ferrari)
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#38 Khoo1992
Member since 2005 • 2472 Posts

FIA reveals evidence that led to penalty

The FIA has published accounts of "systematic" contact between McLaren chief designer Mike Coughlan and Ferrari's Nigel Stepney - evidence that led the governing body to severly penalise the Woking-based team.



In a 14-page document issued at the Belgian Grand Prix, the FIA details how the World Motor Sport Council reached its verdict at its hearing on Thursday.



As was expected, the evidence revolves around an email exchange between McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa and world champion Fernando Alonso, plus logs of calls and SMS messages between Coughlan and Stepney.



In the emails, extracts of which have been published, de la Rosa talks about information coming from Stepney.



On March 21 de la Rosa wrote an email to Coughlan stating: "Hi Mike, do you know the Red Car's Weight Distribution? It would be important for us to know so that we could try it in the simulator. Thanks in advance, Pedro.



"P.S. I will be in the simulator tomorrow."



Coughlan replied to that email with a text message with the details that were required, although in the end those settings were not tried out.



On March 25 de la Rosa then sent an email to Alonso setting out Ferrari's weight distribution to two decimal places on each of Ferrari's cars for the Australian Grand Prix.



Alonso then replied under a section headed Ferrari: "Its weight distribution surprises me; I don't know either if it's 100 percent reliable, but at least it draws attention."



De la Rosa then replied: "All the information from Ferrari is very reliable. It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I don't know what post he holds now. He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi was stopping in lap 18. He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our Chief Designer, and he told him that."



The evidence then details emails from de la Rosa discussing a flexible wing, aero balance, tyre gas, Ferrari's braking system and the team's stopping strategy.



Furthermore, the FIA examined reports from the Italian police of call logs between Coughlan and Stepney.



The evidence said: "In total, at least 288 SMS messages and 35 telephone calls appear to have passed between Coughlan and Stepney between 11 March 2007 and 3 July 2007."



The World Motor Sport Council found that:



"- Coughlan had more information than previously appreciated and was receiving information in a systematic manner over a period of months;



"- the information has been disseminated, at least to some degree (e.g. to Mr. De la Rosa and Mr. Alonso), within the McLaren team;



"- the information being disseminated within the McLaren team included not only highly sensitive technical information but also secret information regarding Ferrari's sporting strategy;



"- Mr de la Rosa, in the performance of his functions at McLaren, requested and received secret Ferrari information from a source which he knew to be illegitimate and expressly stated that the purpose of his request was to run tests in the simulator;



"- the secret information in question was shared with Mr. Alonso;



"- there was a clear intention on the part of a number of McLaren personnel to use some of the Ferrari confident information in its own testing. If this was not in fact carried into effect it was only because there were technical reasons not to do so;



"- Coughlan's role within McLaren (as now understood by the WMSC) put him in a position in which his knowledge of the secret Ferrari information would have influenced him in the performance of his duties."

-autosport.com

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Redders1989

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#39 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts
It's a shame that really only three men ruined it for McLaren - Coughlan, de la Rosa and (to a lesser extent I guess as he doesn't physically ask for the information in the details above) Alonso. Even though I think de la Rosa will go to Prodrive next year anyways, I would be suprised to still see him in a McLaren should he not get a race seat next year. Still unsure as to what will happen to Alonso/what he'll decide to do.
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#40 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

DENNIS WAS SOURCE OF NEW EVIDENCE:

McLaren boss Ron Dennis has revealed that he was the source of the new evidence that prompted the FIA to revisit the spying case.

The governing body reconvened the World Motor Sport Council after additional evidence came to light, the core of which was an exchange of emails between McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa and world champion Fernando Alonso.

As a result, McLaren was thrown out of the 2007 constructors' championship and hit with a record fine.

Dennis said at Spa on Friday that he approached the FIA as soon as he became aware of the existence of the emails.

"Once I became aware that new evidence might exist which I did on the morning of the Hungarian GP (5 August), I immediately phoned the FIA to keep them informed," he said.

Dennis added that McLaren is still considering whether to appeal Thursday's WMSC verdict.

"We now have seven days to appeal and are carefully considering the company's position once we have a full understanding of the FIA's findings," he said.

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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#41 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

FIA PRESS STATEMENT RELEASE

Here is the document that the FIA have released to the public, explaining the reasons for the decision that they made. I would've posted it all here but it's 14 pages, so would've gone on ages, so I'll just give you the link :P

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mjk1

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#42 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts
De La Rosa's future looks bleak at Mclaren, not sure about Alonso's but looking at the evidence its clear Mclaren deserved a penalty
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#43 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts

De La Rosa's future looks bleak at Mclaren, not sure about Alonso's but looking at the evidence its clear Mclaren deserved a penaltymjk1

Indeed. It's reassuring to see that this is as far as the spying went; if they started making major changes to their car which put them at an advantage to Ferarri, then obviously the drivers would need to be penalised. What is worth noting is that this is the kind of information that can be carried to another team when technical staff are hired by another team, so it's not like this information doesn't move around every year anyway. What I mean is, if Stepney had moved to McLaren, then this amount of information would be transferred anyway. But the fact that McLaren obtained so much information in a secretive way is the reason for their penalty, not because they cheated, because if what was presented at the hearing could be considered cheating, then technical staff transfers would need to be banned from the sport.

But really, this whole case needs to be looked at in context. Things like this:

Former Ferrari driver Mika Salo said the scandal was nothing new.

"When I was driving for Ferrari we always spied on McLaren, listening their radio traffic. After every practice session I had in front of me, on paper, all the discussions Mika Hakkinen had had with his engineer,"

autosport

.. just make it seem like these kind of tactics have been used for a long time in this sport.

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#44 KimisApprentice
Member since 2006 • 2425 Posts
The radio frequencies are given to the FIA and because of that if we wanna hear them during footage they cant be encripted. Thus anyone at the circuit if they had the right frequency could jam out to Heidfeld having a chat with his engineer, theres not much stopping you.
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#45 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

WMSC TRANSCRIPTS

The Transcripts hav been released to the public, and this is the link to both July 26th 2007, and September 13th 2007. Both are Adobe files to open/download, whichever you wish to do.

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mjk1

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#46 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts
i was going to read the sep 13th hearings but its 115 pages long :shock:
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#47 kalais91
Member since 2006 • 146 Posts

But really, this whole case needs to be looked at in context. Things like this:

[quote="autosport"]

Former Ferrari driver Mika Salo said the scandal was nothing new.

"When I was driving for Ferrari we always spied on McLaren, listening their radio traffic. After every practice session I had in front of me, on paper, all the discussions Mika Hakkinen had had with his engineer,"

cjek

.. just make it seem like these kind of tactics have been used for a long time in this sport.

yeh because that is the exact same as having 780 pages of car designs, telementary, tyre/fuel info and other intellectual property isnt it? :roll:

also: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61190

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Redders1989

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#48 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

JYS STILL HIGHLY CRITICAL OF McLAREN PENALTY:

Three-time world champion Sir Jackie Stewart has not softened his criticism of Formula 1's governing body over the 'spygate' affair despite the evidence it has since published as the basis for the World Motor Sport Council's decision to punish McLaren.

Stewart continues to believe that the $100 million fine was disproportionate and says nothing that has been published over the last week constitutes proof that McLaren cheated.

"I do not think it was a justifiable amount of money; I still don't today," he said in an interview with ITV-F1.com.

"Max Mosley tried to justify it by telling us that it was a small proportion of McLaren's turnover or their sponsorship or the wealth of the company.

"Would our governing body have fined a team like Spyker the same amount of money? Just because McLaren are a rich team doesn't change any crime that there may have been.

"What I was worried about is that I never saw anything that categorically said that a crime had occurred. I didn't see any conclusive proof.

"I didn't think in any civil court it would have stood up, because even in the FIA's report they didn't actually come out and say that anyone was actually found guilty.

"There has been a transfer of information going on for many years - which doesn't mean to say it's right or wrong, but the governing body has always been there and there has never been this kind of punishment in the past.

"There are few examples, certainly in the world of sport, where such a fine would be imposed.

"And even in the corporate world it would be a very, very large amount of money."

Stewart also condemned the handling of the affair, criticising leaks of information to the media and arguing that the case should have been investigated in a more low-profile way.

"I thought that it was handled very poorly," he said.

"I thought it was overly publicised - the number of leaks that were intentionally put out was abysmal - and I just did not approve of the whole action.

"It could have been dealt within behind closed doors, it could have been dealt with in a different way - and if something had been proven to be absolutely black and white, then I think any crime must be punished. But the punishment must fit the crime.

"And for somebody to start having to justify why this team is rich, and therefore should be more heavily penalised financially...I didn't understand."

He added that the decision to penalise McLaren through the loss of all its constructors' points while leaving the drivers' tallies unaffected may have suited the commercial imperatives of the sport but was fundamentally illogical.

"I thought it was terrible that the sentence was announced before the verdict," he said.

"That was difficult for any layman to understand.

"I also didn't understand the fact that if information was transferred, and it was therefore it was to benefit the team as a whole, they should be stripped of the chance of winning the constructors' world championship while the drivers' championship was not put at risk - when it was the cars being driven for the same team.

"I just couldn't make head nor tail of that, and I don't think that could have happened in a civil court.

"Of course [excluding Hamilton and Alonso from the drivers' championship] would have seriously affected the commercial value of Formula 1, and that just didn't happen.

"I'm very pleased that the drivers' championship is still being fought over, but I think the whole thing was unnecessary in the level that it reached."

Stewart believes the episode will inevitably have damaging consequences for Formula 1 as a whole.

"I'm sad because I do think some people who are already big investors in the sport will pay attention to it, and more importantly perhaps, some who may be considering investing in the sport," he said.

"I believe we shot ourselves in both feet.

"This wasn't just an error, this was a major error of judgement in my mind, and I think it was blown out of all proportion."

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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Redders1989

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#49 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

DE LA ROSA INTERVIEWED BY ITALIAN MAGISTRATE:

McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa has became the second driver from the team to meet with the Italian magistrate leading the ongoing legal investigation into the spying controversy.

The Spaniard was interviewed by Modena public prosecutor Giuseppe Tibis at his offices on Tuesday, reports Reuters.

De la Rosa's countryman Fernando Alonso also met with Tibis as a witness with knowledge relevant to the case earlier this month.

It was email conversations between the McLaren pair that made up part of the Wold Motor Sport's evidence in the second 'Spygate' hearing, which resulted in the Woking squad being stripped of its 2007 constructors' points and hit with a record fine.

Ferrari had already initiated separate legal proceedings in Italy against its former chief mechanic Nigel Stpeney, who is alleged to have leaked the confidential technincial documents thatwere found in McLaren's suspended chief designer Mike Coughlan's possession.

Tibis is leading the enquiry into the allegations and informed several McLaren officials at the Italian Grand Prix that they were under investigation in the case - although the notification may not necessarily lead to charges being brought.

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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#50 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

STEPNEY SENTENCED OVER SPY AFFAIR

Nigel Stepney, the former Ferrari engineer at the centre of the 2007 spying scandal, has been sentenced to 20 months in prison for his part in the affair according to the Reuters news agency - but under the Italian legal system it is thought highly unlikely that he will serve the sentence.

Ferrari originally launched criminal proceedings against Stepney in June '07, shortly before the scandal broke. Stepney was accused of plotting to sabotage Ferrari's cars, and of passing confidential data to the team's main rival McLaren.

McLaren was subsequently fined $100 million and excluded from that season's constructors' championship, while the FIA encouraged teams to avoid working with Stepney and McLaren's Mike Coughlan, the other main figure in the scandal, although this was later lifted and Stepney went on to work in GT racing.

Although the FIA and the teams involved considered the matter closed, the criminal proceedings against Stepney continued. Reuters cites local media reports that Stepney's legal team entered into a plea bargain in a court in Sassuolo, and that today the jail sentence was passed along with a 600 euro fine.

SOURCE: Autosport