PSN outages could last for days

Sony's online network goes dark, "may be a full day or two" before all features of service are back up and running.

The PlayStation Network is experiencing extended outages for the second time this month. In a post on the PlayStation Blog, the company acknowledged "certain functions of PlayStation Network are down," and that they might not be restored for a while.

In a case of unfortunate timing, online-enabled PS3 games like Portal 2, Mortal Kombat, and SOCOM 4 launched this week.

"While we are investigating the cause of the Network outage, we wanted to alert you that it may be a full day or two before we're able to get the service completely back up and running," according to Sony. "Thank you very much for your patience while we work to resolve this matter."

As for which features are down, GameSpot editors were unable to log in to the service, effectively making all of the features inaccessible.

Earlier this month, the "hacktivist" group Anonymous launched distributed denial of service attacks on the PlayStation Network, intermittently bringing down the PlayStation 3's online functions. The attacks were directed at Sony in response to the company's since-settled legal fight with George Hotz, a hacker who distributed the PS3 master key online. However, on a website used as a mouthpiece for the loose-knit group of hackers, the attacks were called off because of the negative impact they were having on Sony's customers rather than the company itself.

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Discussion

1646 comments
johneese
johneese

lol i didnt kno the psn when down on 420! damn. i love my xbox, if i couldnt game on the holiest of days i would have surely had a bad 420.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin What happened to ending the argument?

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 OK bro, you keep believing that. I wonder if you even read half my comments.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin Yeah, your totally not a 360 fanboy. Your comments were just as biased as mine. You should buy a PS3 before you make conclusions about which console is better. The reason I am a Sony fanboy is because my PS3 has never broken and my Xbox broke after 3 months.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 The thing is I'm not saying the PS3 is crap, so I don't understand where you're getting at. For example, Sony had guaranteed a hackproof, secure network for a unique online experience. However, PSN is nearing it's 9th week of being down due to external intrusion. Just because Sony had stated we will be getting a strong service, it doesn't mean it will be. Likewise, a dev is gonna make his money from Sony, so to be on the good side, it's quite evident that their comment is biased. Note how they also said that it wasn't impossible to bring the same experience to the 360. No where in it did they say that. They had pointed out shortcuts would have been took to bring Killzone 3 if the 360s also were gonna have the game. So I may not be a developer, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out the limitations of a device when there is proof. I'm gonna end it here because you seem to have nothing to say, and we keep circling back to the start. I'll let you carry on being a gullible Sony fanboy. Have a nice day.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin Killzone 3's version of the Havok engine was heavily modified. If it wasn't heavily modified I would accept your argument. Again the developers claim it cannot run on the Xbox and it goes back to the fact that I will believe people who actually make games, not people who think they know more than developers. I'm wondering if you own any other platform besides Xbox.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 Regardless of whether the port was lazily done or not, they were still bad. Mass Effect 2 may be one case where there could be a slight improvement (although I had no problem running it on a 360 whatsoever, and saw no graphical difference nor experienced any frame rate issues). The difference is minimal so I don't understand why you're making such a huge deal about it. If anything, the 360 is running the same content on an outdated hardware in comparison to the PS3, which shows that it's much more capable than people think. And we don't get Killzone 3 quality games every day, as people are always trying to find ways to save on the money so the current performance of the 360 is more than enough to pay high quality games. Once again, it's not an opinion but pure facts based on the performance of previous games. And Killzone's Havok system has been used in games like Dead Space, Assassin's Creed, Saints Row and Far Cry 2 (which was a total ***** to run), so again, not particularly difficult to make a Killzone 3 when the 360 ran all the games stated perfectly fine. People buy consoles for the experience, not for the marginal performance difference.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin Some PS3 ports are bad because the developers are too lazy to take the effort to port it correctly to the PS3. It is also cheaper to make games on the 360 and port them to the PS3. The PS3's CPU is more powerful than the 360's. You can also use the PS3's CPU to handle graphics processing which enables the PS3 to move beyond the limitations of the GPU. Mass Effect 2 was built on the UR 3.5 engine. The PS3 version uses an improved version of that, it looks better, and has the same FPS.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 And yes, as of right now, the PS3 is brimming with many exclusives. I accept that. But that's not to say that the 360 is that much behind cause it's getting a fair share of exclusives too. HOWEVER, I completely disagree about PS3s dominating the 360 hardware just cause a few devs working for Sony say so. And just cause Crytek said Crysis 2 runs better on the PS3, you need to realise, thats one case. In the past, many games have had worked better on the 360 as opposed to the PS3. Like I said, and I repeat this, games don't work like the way you think they do. The PS3s graphics card is that extra bit more recent than the 360, but otherwise, the two are exactly the same. Blu-Ray or not, that has minimal effect on the running of the game.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 And you think the developers are the only ones on the planet who have access to such software. Go give a search on Google, anyone can download the non-commercial version of the Unreal Engine physics engine for personal use. You seem to be following what others are telling you to believe. If you actually go and do a bit of research, you would understand that what I'm saying is valid, regardless of whether I'm a dev or not. As a gamer, you'd expect me to know about such things because I review games too. Unreal Engine 3.5 was specifically created so games like Gears 3 would be possible. Killzone 3 on the other hand is running the same engine Killzone 2 had, with few improvements. You don't need to be a dev to know that. You have a very one-sided view of how games work. The disk size and graphical quality doesn't make the game run slower or w/e. It's the actual hardware. Likewise, the way a game operates depends on the physics engine, and so if the PS3 is using a engine like Havok, then the 360 is using some more recent which proves that it can handle more than you think it does. I'm really getting sick of this man, you clearly don't understand how games work, so I don't think you're in a position to argue when the facts are available on the internet.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin Again you are acting like you develop games when you clearly don't. How exactly do you know that the engine Gears of War is using is more advanced than Killzone 3 is using? For whatever reason you think you know more than the developers who actually make video games.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 Even after 15-20 comments passed between us, we don't seem to have reached any sort of agreement so there is very little use in me trying to prove my point. I can conclude that Gears 3 will be much more advanced than Killzone 3 as it runs on Unreal Engine 3.5, opposed to the Havok physics engine which Killzone uses. A game being a Blu-Ray disc doesn't make it any better in terms of performance. Sure, more space on the disk, but the console is what makes the game run well. Crysis 2 MAY run better on a PS3, but that's not like the 360 is lagging and having constant issues and troubles running the game. It runs perfectly, and I doubt the casual gamer is gonna enter a state of rage when there is only a minimal difference. Like I said before, you are underestimating the 360, which is effectively using a slightly better graphics card than the ordinary xbox, which shows how such an old hardware is capable of running games on par with the PS3s slightly more recent hardware.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin Gears of War, Mass Effect, and Assassin's Creed, and The Darkness aren't Killzone. You are claiming that certain PS3 exclusives can run on the Xbox when the developers say they can't. I would assume that the developers would be somewhat biased, but they are NOT going to make a BS statement because that would hurt the developer's and possibly Sony's reputation. I would rather believe a developer because he makes the games and knows the console's limits. You on the other hand are NOT a developer. The 360 and PS3 are both capable, but the Blue-Ray disc makes the PS3 more capable than the 360. Crytek (A MULTIplatform developer) even said that Crysis 2 runs better on PS3. Since they develop for multiple platforms they aren't biased.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 Fine, keep listening to the developers. I suppose Gears of War, Crysis 2, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, The Darkness and all those other games just happen to work magically on a 360 which sports a graphics card dating back all the way from 2005 perfectly. At the end of the day, you just come across as an ignorant Sony fanboy. I'm not gonna justify the power of a 360 when certain games on it speak for themselves. As I AM involved in hardware engineering, I am aware of the pros and cons of a system like a 360, and there IS evidence of what the 360 is capable. So I'd rather do my research then follow crap a dev is gonna say (who is clearly gonna be biased seeing as he develops for Sony exclusively).

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin The kinect motion controls are still unresponsive. A developer of Killzone 2 comment: "If you're not willing to make that investment then you're going to lose out on some options. To make it simple, the Xbox 360 doesn't have SixAxis or Blu-ray. PlayStation 3 does. And for us, that's a really big thing. The level you've just seen is 2GB. We really need Blu-ray to make the game. I don't know how you could fit it on Xbox 360 without taking some shortcuts." Again I will be listening to actual developers and not someone who thinks he knows more.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 It can be considered revolutionary if people start to build on the ideas of the Kinect. And comparing EyeToy with Kinect is a bit stupid seeing as the EyeToy is restricted towards minigames and the motion controls were just unresponsive which is understandable seeing as motion controls weren't so big back then. The graphics and performance of Killzone wouldn't have had any problem. You're really underestimating the power of an X360. Graphically, there could be minimal issues such as grainy visuals but apart from that, very little differences. I say this because plenty of games which are very demanding on performance HAVE been successfully ported over to the 360, so obviously this shows that the 360 can handle those sort of high-performance games. I don't think you understand how performance and disk space are different and affect the game in different ways.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin Killzone would NOT be the same on an 8gb disc. The graphics would be terrible and so would the performance. And if what your saying is true why don't they put Killzone on a 256mb disc? Or why not an N64 cartridge? The kinect is not `revolutionary`. Ever heard of the EyeToy?

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 Dude, we don't really seem to be reaching any sort of conclusion. We've circled back to the start. I'm saying, if Killzone was to come to the 360, the SAME experience could've been offered by the 360 even with the 8GB disc. Also notice that certain files on discs take up much space but don't affect the game. I disagree with you about the Kinect because: 1) It's selling really well and 2) It's a pretty revolutionary product, in a couple of years time, we can probably have game systems which uses motion and also vision (i.e. being able to be part of actual game). Even if it's not a major step forward, it still is pushing other companies to think and offer something better. I'd like to ask you this, how many people actually use PS Move to play Killzone etc? The motion controls just gives a diluted experience whereas the controller offers the full thing. Like I said, it's a matter of opinion. I agree that more exclusives are popping up on the PS3, but whether they are good or not purely depends on the gamer.

RavenXavier
RavenXavier

It's a bad time to be a Playstation Multiplayer user I think. Good thing I own a PC, a 360, and a Wii. (they can all still play online btw) This "outage" is only just beginning people. It'll be months before the PSN is back up. Even if they fix the problems all the legal cases will have to be resolved before they can go active again. Hell, that might take YEARS.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin I also really hope motion controls die out. I think it is a big mistake on M$ part to focus so much on Kinect, because a majority of gamers play with a regular controller. Sony seems to have included PS Move in some games (e.g. Killzone 3, Socom 4, MAG), but they do not focus as much attention on their motion controller because they know that the majority of their gamers play with a regular controller. I also believe MAG was a commercial failure because Sony really did not advertise it. I love MAG and it is my favorite FPS of all time, but I know a lot of people who have never heard of it because Sony really failed at advertising.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin "The SPUs on the PS3 allow us to animate and render and do the ray casts, physics processing and all the things that have to happen for all these different players. So we definitely couldn't have done it without that. It was a big help," said Klee. "We couldn't take our code base and make it run on 360. There's no way that would work." That was said by MAG's developers and I would trust game developers more than some guy on the internet. The reason the PC games take up more space is because they are much better than their console counter parts. They look better and perform better. Back in the Atari and NES days, games that were made did not take up much space. Over time games started to include more features, look better, and perform a lot better. The more space a developer has to work with, the better the game can be. They can still make great games with 8 gb of space, but they could make much better games with 20+ gb of space.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 Obviously, Killzone 3 was created specifically for the PS3, and so to make a game directly to the PS3, it's gonna take up space. Many games like Gears of War, GTA IV, Mass Effect, Crysis 2 took up quite a lot of space on the PC, but the same experience was delivered on the consoles right? So no, it doesn't matter. If Killzone 3 arrived on the 360s, a simple port to the PS3 and done, it wouldn't have took up as much space. Yes, I accept that the PS3 has a wide variety of exclusives, but so does the 360. Just cause very few are releasing this year, it doesn't make the console any worse. And you're argument of the Kinect only attracting kids is invalid, as Kinect was primarily designed for usage generally among minors, and the more serious gamers would be delivered with ordinary games. MAG, RE5 and Killzone 3 are the only games in my mind which supports PS Move, the rest are once again games aimed at younger ones so I would've accepted your Kinect argument if the PS3 sported many serious titles for the PS Move, but it doesn't so like I said, it's an invalid argument.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 I don't understand how it's not possible for a 360 to simultaneously run so many players on a server. Games like MAG have dedicated servers. Any game with dedicated servers can host several players. For example, Gears of War 3 will be having dedicated servers. Instead of relying on one server, there are multiple servers across many parts of the world so people can have a good online experience. And I believe MAG was a commercial failure. I don't even remember seeing it being sold in stores. Killzone 3 may have took up 40GB, but take games like Gears for example again. That game on the PC easily took around 25GB, but that same game managed to fit on a single 8GB disc for the 360, right?

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin Killzone 3 took up 83% gb of the a Blue-Ray disc space. That is about 41.5 gb of space. Killzone 3 would fit on 5 DVDs. The size of the disc matters. MAG was definitely not a failure. 256 gamers playing simultaneously on one server is not a failure. The Xbox 360 is not capable of that. Like I said before the PS3 has a wide variety of exclusive games.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 The one Blu-Ray idea is just a myth. You don't require more than 8GB to create a game for a console, and even if it did require larger space, the XBOX has a large hard drive, so the game can be divided into 2 discs, so the extra stuff can be installed on to the hard drive. It's pretty simple, just cause it's Blu-Ray, it doesn't neccessarilly mean it's more powerful. All the games you mentioned aren't that great. SOCOM has is a franchise which is really out-dated now, not many people find it that fun. I thought MAG was a failure. Resistance and Killzone are good games, but doesn't mean the PS3 should be purchased just for them. Whether the 360 has better exclusives or not once again depends on the player. The market is over saturated with shooters. 360 users aren't gonna miss out on anything great because the 360 market is also flooded with typical shooting games. It depends on your taste in games.

Mawy_Golomb
Mawy_Golomb

I must agree with LTB29. Look at the list of studios owned by Sony Computer Entertainment and compare it with Microsoft Game Studios. Most of Microsoft's owned game franchises (i.e. Blinx, Midtown Madness, MechAssault, etc.) aren't even be fully executed, whereas Sony is continually placing a greater emphasis on its game franchises and studios. This most likely means that the PS3 will win in terms of having the best exclusives by the end of this console generation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Game_Studios#Owned_franchises _and_properties The PS3 has a greater variety of different genres for its exclusives and has much greater support for Japanese games, so it's a really good investment. I don't think that we'll be seeing a Microsoft console with nearly as many Japanese game franchises for a long time. ON-TOPIC: It is a shame that something like this had to happen, but it could happen to Microsoft, too. You never know. But I guess that this means that Sony is going to work that much harder in the future to not make the same mistake again. This won't effect my decision about playing games online on the PS3. As soon as this clears up, and the PS3 sees a price drop, which will happen, due to the Wii's recent price cut, I will buy a PS3.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin The 360 is going to be low on exclusives for many years to come. The PS3 is a far more powerful console and developers can include more content on a Blue-ray disc than a DVD. People who buy a PS3 will have a larger variety of exclusives. You can buy great shooters like Resistance, Killzone, MAG, Socom, Warhawk, or MGS4. Great car/racing games like GT, Motorstorm, Burnout, Twisted Metal, Wipeout or Pixel Junk Racing. Amazing action/adventure games GoW, Uncharted, Rachet and Clank, LBP,or InFamous. Do you even own a PS3? If you owned both consoles and have played each consoles exclusives, you would realize that the PS3 has better exclusives.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 The thing is that it doesn't though. The 360 offers more, and I'm not sure from where you're getting 360s and PS3s for the same price at. 360 is low on exclusives this year, but in the previous years, there have been countless exclusives, and in the upcoming years there should be too. Uncharted and Killzone isn't everyone's cup of tea. They might prefer Gears of War or they might be interested in a better online gaming experience. Killzone and Resistance ARE generic shooters. There is nothing special about the two. They are all flash, no substance. They also offer minimal replay value. If you think people will buy a whole console for these two FPS titles, then you must be wrong cause there are plenty of other successful games on the market which are FPS shooters.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin Why would you buy something that offers less than something else for the same exact price? Killzone 3 and Resistance 3 are not generic shooters. Tomb Raider and PoP do not offer the same amazing experience as Uncharted. The PS3 also receives exclusive PSN games and exclusive content.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 You can build a good gaming rig but most people don't have the knowledge nor the time, and why would they pay $1000 just to run games on it when gaming consoles are specifically made to do just that? On top of that, there are issues such as video cards, hard drive space, installation etc. As you pointed out, a good alternative to InFamous would be Prototype (yes, PS3 owners have the game too), Resistance and Killzone are generic FPS games. The market is full of them, you don't need a further exclusive of such a title when practically everything out now is a war-based first-person shooter. Motorstorm? We got Forza. And yes, there are plenty of racing titles too such as Test Drive Unlimited, Burnout, Need for Speed which does everything Motostorm does, so why the console for a game which doesn't offer anything new? Twisted Metal. I don't know what the HELL that is, and I doubt many others don't either. You should consider the popularity of an exclusive. Uncharted, sure, is a great game. But once again, 360 users are fine with Tomb Raider and Prince of Persia, which both offer the same sort of adventure type gameplay. Just cause the 360 has few exclusives releasing this year, it doesn't make it a crap console cause what about previous years? (around 97 games). Above that, there are tonnes of indie games and exclusives content on the Xbox Live Arcade. As you can see, the 360 has this or that to make up for something the PS3 exclusively has.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin I'm not sure why someone would not buy exclusives. The PS3 and Xbox are the same price (not counting XBL subscription fees), but the PS3 has more serious exclusives. The exclusives expand the game library of a console and there are a lot of good exclusives on PS3 and PC. Your are paying the same price if you buy a PS3 and you get a larger game library. If you buy an Xbox to play more serious games, you probably will be disappointed that the PS3 has exclusive games like InFamous 2, Resistance 3, Socom 4, Killzone 3, Uncharted 3, Motorstorm, and Twisted Metal. And you can build a good gaming rig for under $1000.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 You're forgetting the point though. Not everyone buys exclusives. You don't get people just waiting for an exclusive to pop up in the market. They're obviously gonna buy games such as L.A. Noire, MGS etc etc which is available on all platforms so the fact that only one serious exclusive is releasing isn't much of a big deal seeing as people play for enjoyment and not to boast about the exclusivity of the title. I don't think PS3s are gonna be popular for a few months judging by current circumstances regarding PSN and how user information has been compromised, and most PC games are very demanding - rather than purchasing a $3000 rig to play games smoothly, you might as well play on a console so it really isn't gonna affect the 360 sales in any sort of way. Sure, fewer exclusive titles aimed at adults, but there are plenty of multiplatform games releasing which people are more interested in.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin The harm is that the more serious gamers cannot play as many serious exclusives. There are some serious multiplatform game, but the Xbox only has one serious exclusive coming out this year (Gears of War 3). The consumers might start buying different platforms (being PC, or PS3) because those platforms offer more serious exclusives. I would see no harm if there was still a good amount of serious Xbox exclusives, but there is only one good looking serious exclusive.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 Which is a good thing cause now kids instead of buying a Wii will buy a 360, which means both adults and kids can play. Don't you see the benefits of it? After all, gaming is generally aimed at minors. With hundreds of titles releasing for adult gamers, there is no harm in making a peripheral which will entertain kids too.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin They are turning the Xbox into a system for little kids.

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 Well, seeing as the Kinect seems to be more of a success than the PlayStation Move, why not?

SIDEFX1
SIDEFX1

Well.. I am spewin about this and it is annoying, Sick of it even.. But in the end it is free and i am sure it will not be long until it is back on. Good luck sony..

MAJOR_TUFFY
MAJOR_TUFFY

It's a pain to be sure, but the world hasn't ended. there are plenty of games offline and if it means better security for the psn, i'm all for it. A bit concerned that all personal info, address, credit card numbers, etc. might be accessed.

LTB29
LTB29

@TxtBin Yes because a vast majority of xbox gamers love kinectamals.

MEDzZ3RO
MEDzZ3RO

@Gelugon_baat No, I won't read the terms for I do not care how often I get moderated or not. There's something called freedom of speech; racism, sexism and general insults are all taken too seriously because people are too sensitive. Fact is, everyone is NOT "equal". If people get offended by any of my comments it generally means it's controversial and that I'm not voicing an opinion considered to be the norm. I like to break away from the rest of the sheep, it's good to think for yourself. Tell you what, I'm more then happy to let you flag me for this off-topic post aslong as you do it for every other person that has in this thread (including yourself with your last comment).

TxtBin
TxtBin

@LTB29 You may think there are only 2 good exclusives, but to others, it could be 3, 4, 5 .... or even none. It depends on your personal taste. Yes, I understand that MGS is coming out on all systems but now people can't say we don't have MGS cause now we will be. Likewise, there are sayings that Halo is coming to the PS3, which I doubt because I think Microsoft own the rights to it and so Bungie technically use it, although they can make something similar to it. What you consider to be a bad exclusives might be a game some others might think is good so it all depends on you.

SkidRow18
SkidRow18

just when u thought five years later, console war will be over....

s_emi_xxxxx
s_emi_xxxxx

I feel Microsoft paid some guys to pull this off.. hahaha

Claytonicus
Claytonicus

It always amuses me to see the long winded rants posted on the comments board by people who have nothing better to do than to try to get a rise out of others with their clearly biased, and often entirely innaccurate statements. This article is about the PS3 network being down, and not about the superiority of one gaming medium over another. Your arguments remind me of the scene in Billy Madison, where Billy (the supposed adult) has an argument with a school kid about whether mortal kombat or donkey kong is better. If you like the PS3, stick with the PS3. If you like XBOX, stick with the XBOX. It's called autonomy, you morons.

Proorizo
Proorizo

15 pennies, 3 nickels, or a dime and a nickle. Is the price I choose pay per day for online gaming.....So basically for the price of a brand new game you too can play 365 days a year without interruption. Are you kids too young to work or are you just too stubborn to upgrade?

Proorizo
Proorizo

Just an update for everyone....Xbox live is still going strong. Tomorrows monday and for all you PS3 owners out there, that means Pawn shops will be open bright and early....I hope you guys can somehow, someway scrap up $50 for the years worth of reliable service and lag free gaming minus all the ridiculous load times and the 30 min updates.

itheemperor80
itheemperor80

this is really mind boggling n disturbing for me that why so many ppl who do not even use psn are posting here? are u guys bunch of wannabes or what!! we r already not in a comfort zone with this psn outage n u guys are not helping by sayin this is good that is bad, etc. etc so please go n live ur happy life with xbl or whatever u guys do, or find another topic n only come here if u have some useful intel about psn. thanks a lot, i hope u got my point....live n let live, peace.

CHAMPION6171994
CHAMPION6171994

[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]

rbop
rbop

@DragonRift Hahaha. Did you just make the same exact argument that I used? Too funny. It took me so long to respond b/c while I love gaming, I don't spend my days checking every few minutes to see if someone replies to something I may have posted. I like your "typing real hard comment" though. While it doesn't have much use here, I will have to back pocket that one. BTW, since that incident in 2008 I have not experienced a single problem with XBL. I do go weeks without logging on though, so I may have missed all of these outages that you speak of. I don't know what your preferred platform is (if you have one), but I can say with 100% honesty that I sold both my Wii and PS3 (along with about 10 games a piece and a bunch of other swag) on my work bulletin board due to the fact that the 360 did everything I needed, and I never really used the other consoles. If that makes me a fanboy by your definition then so be it. I hate to point out (again) that you are missing the point that I was making... which I am not going to waste time with typing yet again. Have fun gaming on whatever you game on, but I would recommend some sort of comprehension class because it seems like you get what you want out of reading rather than what is there... Post again if you still care enough about this to carry on, but I'm done. Peace.