Metal Gear Solid V's torture scene to be non-playable

"As the expressiveness of video games goes up, if you want to go beyond that it's not something you can avoid," says Kojima on whether violent scenes such as torture are necessary.

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Metal Gear Solid creator Hideo Kojima has said that a torture scene in the upcoming Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain will not be controllable by the player.

At the Tokyo Game Show, and speaking to Eurogamer, Kojima discussed whether such scenes were necessary.

"It's something that needs to be done," said Kojima.

Kojima reemphasized that one of the main topics of Metal Gear Solid V is revenge, and that violence in a game narrative is something he wanted to put in if it "will give new emotions that are important to the game."

"As the expressiveness of video games goes up, if you want to go beyond that it's not something you can avoid. Of course not all video games have to do this, and in my case it's not something that I want to go through. If the violence will give new emotions that are important to the game, I want to put it in there, especially with this game where one of the main topics is revenge. I don't want to walk around that."

However, Kojima didn't want to go so far as to make the player take control over the scene. "I didn't want to go as far as having playable torture," he said. "The part of Metal Gear Solid 5 that has torture is non-playable."

The Metal Gear Solid series has often featured Snake being tortured as part of their plot, including notable scenes in the original Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater.

"So far the player's been tortured by Ocelot so much that I'm thinking that I might be the one that introduced torture to games," Kojima quipped. "So I'm sorry about that!"

Discussion

185 comments
brainiac1988
brainiac1988

"Make me feel it. Make me feel alive again..."

toyo75
toyo75

Doesn't Kojima trust his fans' level of intelligence that he changed a few aspects of his game just to please the demands of his critics? Or did he make this move in order to not get a Mature rating?

Splinter Cell: Conviction had certain parts in the game wherein you had to beat the answers out of some of the characters in order get info and move on. There was also a scene wherein you choose to either terminate or spare your opponent's life. I guess the producer of that game had more faith in the intelligence and maturity of their players than Kojima. 


BranKetra
BranKetra moderator

I am okay with not being able to play through torture sequences. My first experience with a torture sequence was Metal Gear Solid on the PSX in 1999, if I recall correctly, and as a pre-teen, I did not only perceive that event as an a human being was getting tortured. A large part of my experience was actually focusing on pushing a button fast enough to keep Snake's life bar (an impersonal an fake game feature) from depleting. My first experience with Metal Gear Solid 3 was different because my full attention was on the scene. That is more of an explicit experience in my opinion. Kojima-san might be working to make another experience like MGS3. I wonder if MGSV will get a AO rating, honestly.

hystavito
hystavito

"So far the player's been tortured by Ocelot so much that I'm thinking that I might be the one that introduced torture to games," 

Ah, no, not really :).  There were some games that featured torture waaaay back, I believe as far back as the Commodore 64.  There was one in particular, I can't remember the title, but it raised some controversy.  Although back then gaming didn't get much coverage in the mainstream press, nor was there much in the way of gaming specific press at all.

ChaosUndivided
ChaosUndivided

Ah. The button mashing to keep alive sequences. MGS4 had the worst one, while it wasn't a torture scene the crawling through the microwave room at the end was torture enough. 

bjvill
bjvill

THAT'S GOOD KOJIMA. HURT ME MORE!

DeadlyMaster
DeadlyMaster

Who the hell asked him that question?  I don't want to know anything about MGS V.  I want to enjoy the game with no spoilers.  The gaming industry is becoming like comics where the covers are spoilers and even the robin death reaches CNN before the issue is released...

BradBurns
BradBurns

I like the fact that he makes those scenes unplayable.


A lot of Western games fall into that trap of thinking that making those scenes playable is a good idea. In my opinion it never works.

Most people playing just sort of feel awkward because there is no stealthy or marksman shooting style challenge to what they're doing. They're just torturing someone. 

I don't care what politicians would have you believe, most people aren't really interested in playing that out. It makes for good drama in a cut scene, though.

Dawg9000
Dawg9000

People actually found GTA's torture scene over the top? The worst one was the waterboarding, and they don't even do it the full on torture way. Game's not for kids, grow a stomach. MGS had plenty of torture scenes, you were just the tortured.

Fia1
Fia1

way to drop the ball, kojima could have pulled a better torture scene not like what rockstar did on gta... ughhh

variable21
variable21

i very much agree to a lot of postings here, suggesting that if such a torture scene would make sense within the gameworld and within the storyline, it will make sense and will work in the end.i  have nothing but respect for kojimas work. i wish i could say the same for the guys at rockstar. when kojima talks a bout torture it feels as if he is able the add depth and meaning to the already wide spektrum of video games. if you watch the gta series, it feels like if rockstar just wants to add disturbing stuff to maintain their brand. to make gta more violent, so more poeple will buy it. they are not able to craft meaningful stories that may deliver a message , despite(!) having a tortue scene in it.

I_ArCh0n_I
I_ArCh0n_I

good, because the torture scene in GTA is just stupid and ridiculous.

It goes from being an open world silly non realistic game (which is fun) to forcing the player to do disturbing shit to 1 guy for 20 mins like you are now in a saw movie.

LoganDaDestroya
LoganDaDestroya

So long as he's doing it out of his own design decision and its not because he's afraid of media criticism, then I'm fine with that and respect his decision.

adward22
adward22

this game is running by 30 frame rate not 60...but it looks like the graphic really impressive like its real next gen game:)

Wula_
Wula_

Thank fucking god. I hated how I was unable to pass torture sequences on the harder difficulties because I can't mash the button quick enough. So even if I could do everything else on extreme. I could never beat it and forced myself to the easier difficulties. Thank god I don't have to mash Triangle this time and enjoy a difficult play through.

Kurushio
Kurushio

To be fair, most of MGS isnt really playable anyways, but i still enjoy watching the slightly interactive cut scenes and crazy story.

Hydra270
Hydra270

Kojima make it optional hell even have it account locked(18+) online for MGS i would even put my PS4 on net for this game.

Dakota Harrison
Dakota Harrison

^--- The big M on the box DOES mean something, it shouldn't be up to Rockstar to censor their product, just because parents don't know how to teach their kids right from wrong, or take the necessary actions to keep violent media out of their kids hands. Now maybe their should've been a skip button, or other ways of doing that particular mission, but the point was to cause awareness and controversy, which it has done JUST THAT. But back on point, this all comes down to the people who think violent video games somehow corrupt the kids minds of today, opposed to the (i'm sorry, this might be biased) rational thinkers who can understand and realize that MAYBE, just MAYBE, that kid/adult was already screwed up before playing/watching said violent media.

Stephen Eastep
Stephen Eastep

The same format.... 45 mins of gameplay...12 hours of cutscenes.

Thanatos2k
Thanatos2k

The torture in MGS was fine because you could resist it, but resisting got progressively more difficult so it felt good when you succeeded.

As opposed to being horrified because you were watching torture.

Hidir Armande Rahman
Hidir Armande Rahman

what how come??it happenend in snake eater the torture scene cmon konami got to do better then this.^_^_^_^^_^_

Justin Strunk
Justin Strunk

All these games cutting torture scenes or keeping them from being interactive, like MGS and Splinter Cell Blacklist. I think it makes the game, fits in the game world, and we the player can differentiate between right and wrong as usual. Stripping out things to cater to the faint of heart or haters just ruins the atmosphere and intention/view of the games atmosphere... It just makes it feel watered down. Torturing someone in a game doesn't mean I approve of it or will run out and do it in the real world. But it does make the experience far more intriguing in game.

Keith Jarrell
Keith Jarrell

Just give me the game in a PS4 bundle soon please!

ModestDude
ModestDude

The bitchtivity of us Americans wouldn't allow that.

Gravity_Slave
Gravity_Slave

I wish Gearbox would have followed suit before we were all tortured while playing Duke Nukem Forever and Aliens: Colonial Marines.

Articuno76
Articuno76

Depending on how much control you give the player you change the level of empathy the player feels.  How much distance does Kojima want us to feel from the protagonists?  That is something he has probably thought about; after all, you are the aggressor this time so the emotions at play are a little more complicated.

Garm31
Garm31

60fps on next gen consoles. In the footage from TGS, it was only 30fps. lets hope they don't scale back the visuals to achieve this.

eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-20-metal-gear-solid-5-ground-zeroes-60-fps-on-ps4-and-xbox-one.

stealthyninja81
stealthyninja81

@BranKetra unless there is a scene where you kill children or rape a women I don't think it will get AO

BlazingSpeed
BlazingSpeed

@ChaosUndivided My god the way my index finger felt at the end of that sequence I'm actually thankful that Kojima will allow us to focus on the scene this time around I hope that the player will get to choose the questions asked though.

stealthyninja81
stealthyninja81

@DeadlyMaster Movies are the worst offenders of that! if they don't blatantly say it you can usually piece together the major plot points by seeing where the characters are and what they are doing in the trailers.

stealthyninja81
stealthyninja81

@BradBurns If its a button mash thing, I agree. If you can choose to not torture them for moral or other reasons I think its kind of cool.

BradBurns
BradBurns

@Fia1 

I don't think anyone really wants to do that in a game. It simply isn't fun. 


It's best left as a plot device during cut scenes.

BradBurns
BradBurns

@variable21 


lol.


Well said.

Yes, the folks at RockStar tend to come off as attention whores a lot of the time. Kind of how South Park tries to  "shock" by doing tasteless things for publicity.

Which isn't necessarily wrong, just not very meaningful (aside from getting you a lot of attention and in turn money, of course).

FKlepackiFTW
FKlepackiFTW

Kojima's the last one to add interactive torture scene in anything he has control over.

jonny_dutch
jonny_dutch

@AggrandizedUser Yay! So glad GTA opened the doorway to a entire genre of torture simulators! Rockstar owned that boundary, so damn innovative, games can only get better now that gamers can be forced to participate in torture to progress in a game!

torbonator
torbonator

@AggrandizedUser The GTA scene had no relevance what so ever it wasn't needed, if you going to push boundaries do it in a way that makes sense to the story and setting rather than just putting it in there for the sake of being over the top.

jonny_dutch
jonny_dutch

@Hidirazmi N Rahman In MGS3 you are resisting torture (which you can't see happening), in GTA you are forced to do the torturing yourself, you can't view it as a cutscene or cut to a different character. Its basically a psychopath breeding engine.

FKlepackiFTW
FKlepackiFTW

I don't know what you mean. You had no control over it in MGS3.

FKlepackiFTW
FKlepackiFTW

Duke Nukem Forever was great. It was GameSpot's fault for getting 3/10.

DeadlyMaster
DeadlyMaster

I remember the scene from the avengers where hulk saves a falling ironman, they showed that in the trailers so i was expecting it to happen in the movie.

variable21
variable21

@BradBurns attention whores hehe, sounds about right :D but i agree with the money part, rockstar/take two are huge, the need to make money, thats what they do, and they do it well.