Destiny's Raids So Tough You May Need Help from the Internet

"By design, we don't provide much in the way of information to groups in Raids," Bungie says.

Destiny's six-player raid missions are going to be so tough that you'll likely need to access a walkthrough on the Internet to help get your squad through to the end. That's according to Bungie design lead Luke Smith, who says that the game's raid missions were purposefully designed to not give players much information or direction.

"For the majority of raid encounters, you're going to need to work as a group," Smith says in Bungie's latest Weekly Update blog post. "That group of six is trying to form a metaphorical key which opens a given encounter's lock."

"By design, we don't provide much in the way of information to groups in raids" -- Luke Smith

"By design, we don't provide much in the way of information to groups in raids," he adds. "There aren't waypoints to follow, or objectives explaining what to do in a given situation. Realistically, for many players, they'll be turning to the Internet for help on how to do a bunch of the raid."

This is a break in form for Bungie. "There's an old Bungie quote about not wanting players to go to the Internet to figure out solutions. That quote certainly wasn't about raiding in Destiny," Smith says. "We fully expect players to either publish strategy guides on the Internet or keep their group's secrets guarded close to the vest in an effort to keep their rewards even more exclusive."

There are two difficulty modes for Destiny raids: Normal and Hard. When you finish a raid on Normal, you'll have the opportunity to play the Hard version. Smith says Normal is all about learning mechanics, working together as a team, and building strategies. Hard mode dials up the intensity and challenge.

"Hard modes demand execution," Smith says. "In addition to deadlier combatants, tighter tuning windows for encounter mechanics, and a handful of targeted differences, Hard mode encounters leverage an even harsher death penalty than the Normal modes."

But how long will a raid in Destiny take to complete? Nowhere near 45 minutes, Smith says. If you want to take your time, however, you can jump out and your progress will be saved. But be warned that Bungie will wipe your progress on a weekly basis.

"Because we store your progress in a given week, you don't need to clear the activity in one go," Smith says. "Your group could simply make your way into the Vault and call it an evening, reconvene later in the week, and pick up where you left off. However, your progress for the week is reset each Tuesday at the Weekly Reset."

Destiny launches one week from today on September 9. The game is coming to Xbox 360, Xbox One, PlayStation 3, and PlayStation 4. Bungie has extensive post-release support plans for the game, including major expansions like The Dark Below, which launches in December. For more on Destiny, check out GameSpot's previous coverage.

Eddie Makuch is a news editor at GameSpot, and you can follow him on Twitter @EddieMakuch

Got a news tip or want to contact us directly? Email news@gamespot.com

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Eddie Makuch

Eddie Makuch is a news editor at GameSpot, and would like to see the Whalers return to Hartford.
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491 comments
Aaronp2k
Aaronp2k

the raid wasn't even that hard. the only part I had to read a guide for was the gorgon's maze. apart from that it was very easy, completed it in 2 hours first time and then within 1 hour 20 minutes the second time...


I guess a lot of ppl just suck.

aeluron1989
aeluron1989

Well if anyone is new to videogames in general or MMO like formats will have a hard time. Not a good idea IMO.

francisjairam16
francisjairam16

People are just mad because the game is not coming on PC

alexanian
alexanian

Im seriously surprised that Eddie "Flamebait" MaKuch didnt title this article "Bungie says destiny players so stupid they need internet for help". He must be working on his subtly

alexanian
alexanian

Its amazing how many people on these forums dont grasp the concept of playing a game without being told by the game exactly what to do? WT F are you guys playing? Even Super Mario brothers didnt tell you to jump on Koopas Head. Someone had to try it first. Grow a pair people and stop falling for flame bait gs articles. This was originally posted in full on the destiny site for destiny fans to read more about content. Bungie didnt ask GS to post this. They werent trying to hype you. dam...

Daian
Daian

This is terrible design, if there are neither guidelines nor an intuitive way to figure things out then you're a crappy designer that create false difficulty by essentially making it impossible to proceed without walkthroughs or dumb luck.


For example Dark Souls rewards perseverance and experience, this "toughness" on the other hand is just putting up a wall that cannot be passed without cheating.

Renoo27
Renoo27

@Daian You're not understanding it properly. You're meant to figure out what to do. Those who can't be bothered to do that will have look up guides online. And speaking of guides, how do you expect the first guides to be written if it's impossible to progress without them? Obviously it isn't. 

okamilvl75rdm
okamilvl75rdm

@Renoo27 @Daian i'll have to agree with Renoo27. its like a detective game. you see a door and you see a console you need a keycard. get to looking. (simplest way to put it since i was playing metal gear solid earlier xD) no waypoints or icons. thats perfect. let me do the exploring and solve this mystery! watch out scooby and co!

greekgod41
greekgod41

@Daian I agree...........Game DEV's are getting totally lazy with these pathetic, and stupid game designs that arbitrarily raise the difficulty to absurd levels, because they are desperate for players to keep playing their sh***ty games so they raise the difficulty which forces players to keep playing for longer in order to find a solution to beat them


The only way we can stop this rot that has infested the gaming industry for some time now is to hit them where it hurts and NOT purchase their games any more, or 2: just cheat and smile at the DEVs while you do it

svaubel
svaubel

Watch this game be one of the biggest flops of the year. Gets harder to live up to expectations the more it is hyped.

seanwil545
seanwil545

@svaubel 

I'm not buying Destiny...at least not right away. I have a 360, PS3 & PS4, but I'm going to hold out for PC. Maybe they'll port it, maybe they won't.

I hope the game does well, but if it does fall flat, it'll have company in at least 2 other titles that failed to live up to the hype this year.

eze_sl89
eze_sl89

If a game needs to be understood by asking the internet, then, you are doing it all wrong.


This game is just a hyped generic FPS. It will be a solid 8 in the best scenario.


cut the crap already

ferna1234
ferna1234

QUIT THE HYPE!!!!!! It's been enough already. Shut up, finish your game and realease it, and see how it might get a 7 or 8 out of 10. its not going to be a 9 or 10 just because you force the context with these rumors.

kargion
kargion

Wow what a stupid idea.  No one should have to go to the internet to play your game.  Just bad.

RobDev
RobDev

@kargion they will already be there reading the grimoire cards. Makes sense.

howiex89
howiex89

thats a bad thing not a good thing Bungie

willman61
willman61

Everything else aside, I think it's presumptuous and shortsighted to convince yourself that your level design will assuredly defeat 6 seasoned gamers in a raid mission.  I can't help but laugh when game designers hold themselves out as revolutionaries or wunderkinds, when at least half of the folks playing are smarter than them.

SerJohnnyMenace
SerJohnnyMenace

Anyone interested in joining our Destiny Community Group ? A community for like minded gamers to share cool finds, tips, create fire-teams, and much, much more.On facebook, type " The True Destiny Community. "

jameshubert12
jameshubert12

again over hyped...i only like one part... when you die as last one in mp, then team come and t bag you...becomes dance central...

digitm64
digitm64

Going to wait for release and see reviews and what the community says.  Feel this game has had to much hype, and we all know how games with too much hype turn out, however I hope I'm wrong.  Been burnt too many times on preorders.

uncompetative
uncompetative

@digitm64

The increasing emphasis on early PvP ranking, "zero day" double XP editions, pre-order bonus content and a "johnny no mates" social shaming aspect are all tactics publishers now rely upon to ensure we don't wait for embargoed reviews, check it out at a mate's house before committing ourselves to an £80+ purchase, or wait a month and pick it up second-hand from GameStop - from which the creators can't get any money.

mekentosh
mekentosh

OMG SO HARD!! Seriously Bungie, let us decide if it's hard or not.

RhythmAndBlues
RhythmAndBlues

@mekentosh That's a fair point, though back in 2004 I remember Bungie forewarning that Halo 2's Legendary setting would be, if I recall the quote correctly, a "sick twist", and it was - so much so that playing the game on Legendary was a miserable f*cking slog that I very nearly didn't bother with.


It's a fine balance, Bungie. I hope you got it right.


idunno88
idunno88

oh wow....it seems bungie is insecure as hell about destiny.....just let the game do the talking yeah......or we'll have another watch dogs like situation on our hands.....where you've already seen and heard so much of the game it feels like there's nothing new when you actually play it.

remember the ps2 era when you literally knew nothing about some games when you picked them up in stores.....me neither.

jameshubert12
jameshubert12

@idunno88 they want people to stick to this like glue like how they made the halo series people stuck to it like glue... hence why the hype in declaring its bs "HARD"...
I think they know it wont last as long just like titanfall...

Forzum
Forzum

"But how long will a raid in Destiny take to complete? Nowhere near 45 minutes, Smith says. If you want to take your time, however, you can jump out and your progress will be saved. But be warned that Bungie will wipe your progress on a weekly basis."


You got that statement wrong, that was not about the raid in it's length, that was about figuring out how to open the door, aka form the metaphorical key. The group of 6 tried to solve it for 45 minutes, and when asked it it will take that long bungie said it would not take anywhere near 45 minutes. The raid itself will be a lot longer. 

ZERO_X02
ZERO_X02

This sounds awesome. I want to go on an adventure for once, not an amusement park ride. Modern games love walking you through an environment and calling it an adventure. An adventure without discovery is lame and barely even qualifies as one. It's more of an experience or show.


Yay for oldschool RPG adventures!

ferna1234
ferna1234

@ZERO_X02 baldur's gate was adventurous! now days adventure games are like sliding down the railing you stair case.

ArchoNils2
ArchoNils2

This is actually a bad thing...
Well another reason to be happy I cancelled my preorder

jonzilla_basic
jonzilla_basic

@DeFiLeDTitan @ArchoNils2 Welcome to Old School Gaming. The way it was and still should be. Games are way to easy now. We spend 70 bucks on a game and beat it quickly and then move on. This will require all players in the raids to be mindful of everything which makes for great team play and full immersion because you have to be aware of everything. This is a win!

ArchoNils2
ArchoNils2

Well if they create a game where you NEED a walkthrough it is bad. It is one thing if a game is hard but gives you a chance to learn and master it by yourself. It is a totally different thing if it is build to only work in some abstract way that onky a walkthrough can tell you. If this is anything like "duck at the wall and a tornado brings you to the next level" it is just a bad game.

Also this isn't the only stupid thing. Like releasing exclusive DLC with CoD, a skin you don't see in first person and something that contradicts the "we want you to have a cool story behind each item" stuff they said. No, they were just to lazy to implement trade or how is "I preordered CoD" a cool story?

jonzilla_basic
jonzilla_basic

@ArchoNils2 Ok, I respect your opinion. It may not be as bad as its sounding. Best to wait for the game to come out and give it a try. I am a zero Halo fan but I really liked the Beta for Destiny. 

AncientDozer
AncientDozer

@jonzilla_basic @DeFiLeDTitan @ArchoNils2 If that is how it should be, Jonzilla, then it would've remained as such.

As it turns out, the people that like torturing themselves are in fact a minority.

Difficulty is not inherently fun; it's masochism. It's work. Games shouldn't feel like work because they exist expressly for entertainment.

It's why games aren't like they were in the 90s. Those weren't popular because they put people off. They were also largely due to design flaws and clumsy controls than actual challenge. 

ArchoNils2
ArchoNils2

Weird, I love Halo (at least with local mp) and thought the Destiny Beta was boring ^^ Well Bungie said you will need a walkthrough, hope they were exaggerating (was that right? Overreacting ^^) withthat statement. I personally canceled the game, too many games around I look forward to much more :)

jonzilla_basic
jonzilla_basic

@AncientDozer Well thats according to you. I dont have an issue with Hard Games but I do have an issue with Hand Holding games. "Games Weren't popular in the 90's"....wow you are way off on that.  


I respect what your saying but there are some incredible games from the 80's and 90's.

jonzilla_basic
jonzilla_basic

@ArchoNils2 I hear that. I am debating still whether to pick it up. I want to get Diablo 3 and now Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate for the Xbox One even though I Played them already. I am also getting NHL 15 on the 9th as well.

DeFiLeDTitan
DeFiLeDTitan

@jonzilla_basic @ArchoNils2 because sitting around for a half hour trying to figure out one little thing you might have missed is not only boring, it can be a cheap cop out for actual immersion. I'd rather have mind numbing repetitiveness, and I hate monotony. backwards puzzles are a great example. Finding a locked door and then having to go back and find the key type situations. Those are frustrating, boring, and complete time wasters that probably mean the story isn't very interesting. 

Trinitarian
Trinitarian

First it's we will never finish the game cause if we haven't killed every person who plays versus. I thought that was the stupidest reason that should buy this game. But oh no, they come out with another reason that sounds just as stupid. Oh boy go online and figure out how to pass this level. Are these guys serious? These guys are not even doing a good job building up the hype! Why should I buy your game? The only reason this game is getting all this attention is cause they made halo. And after the first one all others were shet. And destiny looks just like halo lmao.

ArchoNils2
ArchoNils2

@Trinitarian Totally agree with you. I have no idea how anyone can hype the game after the boring beta

BlackBaldwin
BlackBaldwin

@Trinitarian ^The ignorance is strong with this one..

uncompetative
uncompetative

@Trinitarian

Their latest trailer is a parody of Google Earth, only zooming in from space to the surface of Mars, etc - this will mislead anyone not clued-up about the game that you can actually travel to any point on any planet, or moon, in the solar system - rather than a few bounded areas.