Destiny's Endgame Raids Only Playable With Friends, Don't Tell You Where to Go

Bungie details the endgame content for its upcoming shooter, saying that the raids will require "things you've never even really been asked to do in a shooter before.”

Last week, we had the opportunity to play the Destiny beta test and check out some of the content that will be available in the game. Story missions, a Strike mission, and competitive multiplayer were all playable. But what we didn't get a glimpse of is what the game has in store for high-level players after they complete the story. What will developer Bungie do to keep these players coming back to its game?

Bungie has big plans for its endgame, and these include raids. Similar to MMO raids, these events in Destiny will be challenging and demand you to strategize and cooperate to complete them. They are for high-level players, and there will be very large rewards if you manage to complete them.

They are so difficult and complex, in fact, that Bungie isn't building matchmaking into raids. Talking to IGN, Bungie's Luke Smith explained that the developer wants players to form teams that have a desire to work together. It's hoping to accomplish this by taking the dangerous step of forcing players to team up with their friends, without matchmaking. "It's a bit of a risk," Smith said, "because the activity requires you to have a group of five other friends to play with. [But] if the worst thing that happens is you get your group together and you all have a great time? Wow, that's going to be awesome. I bet you'll want to come back. Hopefully the gear makes you want to come back."

"We don't adhere to any of the standard rules for the rest of the game."

But what exactly are these raids? Bungie's keeping the exact details a mystery, but the developer promises that they'll be unique. "We don't adhere to any of the standard rules for the rest of the game,” Smith described. “Like, raids don't have waypoints, they don't tell you where to go, they don't tell you what to do."

The enemies will be different from other games, as well. He explains, "They're still big monsters, much like what you're going to see, they're still scary, but they have a bunch of abilities that are unlike anything you've really experienced in a shooter before."

Recently, Bungie revealed that 4.6 million people had played the Destiny beta, making it the biggest beta for a new IP on consoles in history. Destiny launches on September 9 for Xbox One, Xbox 360, PlayStation 4, and PlayStation 3.

What do you think about Destiny's raids? Let us know in the comments.

Alex Newhouse is an editorial intern at GameSpot, and you can follow him on Twitter @alexbnewhouse
Got a news tip or want to contact us directly? Email news@gamespot.com

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343 comments
projectpat72988
projectpat72988

How can you possibly think this is the "right call" like some have said. If you dont want to play with randoms....DONT. Why is it a good thing that the rest of us are punished? With these terms...I will basically not get to play a raid because of scheduling and difference of level will make this not even worth it. Why should I not even have the ability to TRY playing with someone random? Whats funny is in Strikes....out of about 15 times I have had 2 of 30 people leave on us and that could be a connection error for all I know. Not one person ever "quit" the game. 

sevy78
sevy78

This is dumb, I'm 36 and I like to play vids when I feel like it, I don't plan game time with my buddy's and only 3 of them got this game anyways , I'm allready grinding strike missions (with matchmaking!!)while my other buddy is at lvl 10 , so my point is , our play times are random and each to his own goals , sure we play together ,but never all at the same time. Soo I need to find random people ? Like I said I'm 36 I don't feel like buddying up with a 12 year old just so I can play content that I paid for ,no offence . Maybe I'm teaming up with a 12 year old while matchmaking, but I don't feel the need To add em to my friends list or chatting with them ! Sometimes in matchmaking it goes smooth and other times it don't ,that's life! Why make it awkward for anyone even if it's a small percent, let people choose for themselves , mmmk

wheres_my_phone
wheres_my_phone

Why not just have match making? If you don't wanna use it, go get 5 friends and find each other online at the same time somehow. This way everyone wins. If the end game content isn't accessible because you can't get 5 friends together then you can't play it. Bungie is just trying to be different to be different with this one. From a practical standpoint it doesn't make a lot of sense and I hope they reconsider.

They could set up the system so that players who don't complete the raid all the way or die with their team together, get a mark against their name in the background. Those people who consistently bail out could be grouped together and may have trouble using match making when 5 other rage quitters aren't available at the same time.

GodNeos
GodNeos

This is going to comeback and bite Bungie.

Zombrex
Zombrex

Good call Bungie. I get tired of doing missions in any game with match-made players and they have no idea what they're doing. They run in lone wolf gun-a-blazing, die, rage-quit, and leave the rest of the players to either quit as well or play twice as long to complete the goal.

30k219
30k219

Matchmaking destroys games. Bungie made the right call.

hoosier_boi
hoosier_boi

its not an MMO, it just has mmo simularites like shared vault/bank and raids. but there is no role to play that will make a big difference like tank/healer/dps type. people think just cause it says RAIDS then its a mmo lol. thats like saying "a bird has wings and so does a plane, they must be the same thing"...

kujel
kujel

FU bungie for trying to sell us an MMO, I don't support that terrible genre and I wont be supporting destiny even though you guys made awesome games up Halo Reach and then you shat out destiny :(

Greyfox-101
Greyfox-101

It's ironic though because Bungie has been like "we don't want to call Destiny an MMO" and when people ask why the game is missing certain features that are common to one they say "destiny isn't an MMO".

Simultaneously they're adding these other features like raids common to MMOs and crafting how they work around the traditional notion of an MMO raid while learning from legit MMOs like Wow.

If Destiny is truly their own unique shared world shooter or whatever they're labeling it I don't see why they can't find a way to integrate matchmaking into the system.

They should have a mic option in matchmaking to only pair those with mics together. They should keep track of DNF% like sports games so you don't get matched with a person likely to quit on you. They should have a planning lobby to figure out gear.

What's the difference between being matched with strangers in matchmaking and me coming here finding 5 "friends" gamer tags and then playing? It's just manual matchmaking.

It sounds like we basically have to 6 way Internet speed date to experience the content.

draven_ev
draven_ev

Looking for like minded other players on PS4 (as this seems the only method to play endgame)... I'm a semi-goofy white guy (I don't say "dawg" or any of that and prefer to play with people who don't, yo).  Im 34 this year.  I work night shift 7pm to 7am (central time) with Saturday and Sunday off. Any takers?

PSN = draven_ev


p.s. - Feels like online dating or something 

ArchoNils2
ArchoNils2

lol, I barely know people who got a PS4 besides me. Now they need to get the game AND we need to find a time to play together? 

adrunk3nduck
adrunk3nduck

Bungie is making some bold moves with this game. It probably won't ruin the gameplay but it will certainly make people who prefer to go solo (me included) and the people with a varied number of friends no way to get past the evil entity we call...IRL. Oh well. Let's just all be friends guys, for the good of you and me. Woo! Friendship!

DarthLod
DarthLod

And, what if you don't have many friends, or any friends who have the game?
This is why the main hub needs a Gen Chat.

viking_63
viking_63

I don't really understand the complaints.  You can complete the story mode as a single player, the raids are just a bonus to keep high level players that want to keep going.   Even without the endgame raids you are getting more than $60 worth of gameplay.

tframp420
tframp420

I do think it's odd to not include matchmaking but...
Maybe they are doing that to enourage people hangin out at the tower to become friends.
Yes, should be an option though, kinda crazy.

Pyrosa
Pyrosa

Utterly ridiculous.  No matchmaking? How about "preorder canceled?"


rat5112
rat5112

Wow Bungie what an a-hole move. You are keeping a group of players out of a section of your game.

How about letting us decide whether or not these raids are enjoyable through matchmaking.

MagusShade
MagusShade

As long as there is an in-game friendlist I can add players to without needing to add them to my PSN Friend list, I'm okay with this. But im not going to clutter up my PSN friendlist with strangers just for 1 game.

akozz_888
akozz_888

then i am not buying destiny, simple as that.

PSYCHOV3N0M
PSYCHOV3N0M

I have 3 personal friends of mine who will be playing this with me on PS4. However, I don't like when a developer doesn't give players the OPTION to use matchmaking if they don't have friends to rely on etc.


OPTIONS are key to getting potential customers to like your product.

NX75
NX75

World of Warcraft had some problems in this area, and it looks like the folks at Bungie might have been paying attention. As we learned especially from the heroic dungeons at the launch of Cataclysm, challenging content requires coordination, and you can't get that from matchmade groups. This means as a developer you have a few options: For one, you keep the difficulty high for coordinated groups, but allow random matchmaking and enjoy a disastrously high rate of failure that frustrates everyone. Another option is you don't allow random matchmaking, which would force all players to coordinate in order to play the content, even though not everyone interested in the endgame wants to organize their playtime or is necessarily up to the challenge. Or finally, you could keep the challenging mode without matchmaking for the organized players, but also create an easy mode designed for uncoordinated, random groups that rewards less-powerful endgame gear. That's the way I'd like for them to do it, because then everyone wins. Except for the elitist snobs who hate that noobs will get to play all the content in the game they bought, of course, but no one understands that logic.

NetBiosError
NetBiosError

Lots of people complaining about the lack of matchmaking, here. Seems like a lot of people haven't played MMO's before. Fact is, World of Warcraft has already proven that matchmaking for extremely difficult end-game content only creates awful, terrible, horrible groups that are a complete waste of time, and the content itself needs to be nerfed to account for that collective stupidity.


If you want the content to be challenging and require cooperation, you can't matchmake for it. It just doesn't work.

denverdood
denverdood

Hopefully there will be guilds, clans or orgs. Like most mmos. Even defiance has them.

Instant groups if you are in an active one.

Sl4cka
Sl4cka

Read: we already spent all of those hundreds of millions of dollars on PR, so now we have no money to make a proper matchmaking system.

21dazz
21dazz

If no matchmaking for raids, can you's do some (LFG) looking for group like in World Of Warcraft. I don't have any friends online that have xbox ones so it will be hard for me to find people or groups for raids, because I've read that chat will only be available for fireteams. Please do some sort of matchmaking or something.

21dazz
21dazz

Please have some sort of matchmaking or Looking For Group (LFG) similar to world of Warcraft please! As I don't have any online friends that have xbox ones!

hector530
hector530

ummmm destiny level design is linear? why would they have to tell you where to go if its a straight line?


also no world PVP is a joke

pxballaxpatrick
pxballaxpatrick

Add raid matchmaking! For the community. For us all. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

scorpion1394
scorpion1394

I for one can't wait to raid with my friends old and new that I made playing the beta. They never said you could only get great loot from raids. Pvp will also have great loot.

PixelAddict
PixelAddict

Not a fan of forcing me to do anything. Especially when I spend over 50% of my co-op time in games like this flying solo.

Somewhat related (by concept, not by genre) is the Assassin's Creed Unity co-op pitch. I always played that solo, and now there's going to be co-op, and I suspect there will be some required co-op on some missions.

NOT. A. FAN.

GodNeos
GodNeos

@Zombrex Do you know how many people have thought that same thing about you.

Zombrex
Zombrex

@Greyfox-101 You're missing the point. The likelihood that you'll find a full team of cooperative individuals in random matchmaking is pretty slim. They're doing it this way because if they are people on your friends list, you likely know them and trust them to help you tackle the games most intense bosses. That last thing you want in an endgame raid is some squeaker who power-leveled his way to endgame and whose idea of "strategy" is to waste his inventory in the first few seconds of the raid, to rage-quit when he gets destroyed.

I do agree that they need to stop denying it's an MMO with it's own identity.

scumbag_slu
scumbag_slu

@draven_ev When I get my PS4, I'll be there.  29 y/o, work 5pm to 5am (EST), off Saturdays, Mondays, and Tuesdays. 

Zombrex
Zombrex

@draven_ev Sometimes that's the only way to find decent players. Play much Battlefield?

adrunk3nduck
adrunk3nduck

@DarthLod I think a gen chat, though probably necessary, is not a good idea. Consider the fact that this is a T rated game... 

draven_ev
draven_ev

@viking_63 It's all relative to opinion, sir.  Yours is obviously different than theirs. 

under28ker
under28ker

@Pyrosa lol, I say preorder continued!! Till Sept!  see you out there!

jbhnc11
jbhnc11

@PSYCHOV3N0M You can't say the game doesn't have options though, it's just that this one mode requires coordination, something you rarely get with random matchmaking.

jbhnc11
jbhnc11

@NX75 I agree with your assessment and I'm with Bungie's decision to force people who want to raid to run dedicated groups. Nothing is more frustrating than getting grouped up for cooperative content, only to have someone leave the first second things get hairy.


I'm on the downside of my gaming career, so I just have to accept the fact that raids may not be for me. Still, there's plenty of fun (from the looks of it) for those of us who can't commit to raiding.

Greyfox-101
Greyfox-101

It's ironic though because Bungie has been like "we don't want to call Destiny an MMO" and when people ask why the game is missing certain features that are common to one they say "destiny isn't an MMO".

Simultaneously they're adding these other features like raids common to MMOs and crafting how they work around the traditional notion of an MMO raid while learning from legit MMOs like Wow.

If Destiny is truly their own unique shared world shooter or whatever they're labeling it I don't see why they can't find a way to integrate matchmaking into the system.

They should have a mic option in matchmaking to only pair those with mics together. They should keep track of DNF% like sports games so you don't get matched with a person likely to quit on you. They should have a planning lobby to figure out gear.

unreal849
unreal849

@PixelAddict  It's the new trend of this generation. Force multiplayer into everything, regardless of whether it should be there or not. I am similarly not too happy about this.

Pyrosa
Pyrosa

@jbhnc11 @PSYCHOV3N0M Paying $60+ for a game that won't let you see its endgame because you & your friends have careers & lives to attend to is NOT innovative -- it's inconvenient at BEST.

Pyrosa
Pyrosa

@jbhnc11 @NX75 I hear you, but there's a huge difference between "Raids are not for me" and "I'm not going to be able to play against the end-game bosses." The latter idea is utter horsesh1t.

PixelAddict
PixelAddict

@unreal849 I know. It's.. disturbing. Yet there are two things that may change my view on this subject for this game in particular.

I may end up being a fan of this game so much that I recruit known friends and unknown friends alike into these scenarios.

This game may sell to so many people that all of my friends are actually playing it, and playing it a lot, allowing such raids to happen.


I have a hard time believing both of these things are going to happen. If only because my friends and I are at the point of our lives where life does, indeed, get in the way of gaming.

We still game plenty, don't get me wrong. But not always at the same time. It is a challenge, and will continue to be a challenge as we move through our 40's (gasp!).

viking_63
viking_63

@Pyrosa @jbhnc11 @PSYCHOV3N0M The raids are just an additional challenge for high level players that have beaten the story missions.  The story can be completed by a single player...why complain about a developer giving you more game modes?

unreal849
unreal849

@PixelAddict @unreal849  My actual friends definitely won't be playing it. I have one friend with a PS4, and he's not too interested.

My gf may get her own ps4 and get in on it, but unfortunately she is not five people, lol.


Definitely going to have to go out and make internet friends if it turns out the game is worth it.

Pyrosa
Pyrosa

@viking_63 @Pyrosa @jbhnc11 @PSYCHOV3N0M Borderlands 2 utterly squashes this theory -- Every raid boss was reachable with match-making, and if you got a crappy crew you could just try again later with a different crew.  But frankly I rarely had to do that -- most folks at that level have SOME clue how to play a game by that point.

PixelAddict
PixelAddict

@unreal849 I've got three friends who will be playing this game on the Xbox One, but it may be a challenge to get everyone online at the same time.

Looking forward to seeing if this game is worth the effort of expanding the group, too.