A Kinect-less Xbox One would be a "real shame" says Rare

"20 years ago, I'd have a team that would be going crazy if they had this kind of technology," says Kinect Sports Rivals executive producer.

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Kinect Sports Rivals developer Rare has said it would be a "real shame" if Microsoft was to release a version of the Xbox One hardware that did not include a Kinect.

The mandatory inclusion of the Kinect has attracted its fair share of criticism, with many believing that the inclusion of the peripheral is both a drain on system resources that could be used elsewhere and also one of the main contributors to the Xbox One's $100 higher price tag compared to the PlayStation 4. But speaking to GameSpot, Kinect Sports Rivals executive producer Danny Isaac has said it would be a shame to lose the device from the hardware as it helps make games development more diverse.

"I love that there's loads of services coming in," said Isaac. "Cloud-based services, and Xbox Live has done a fantastic job, and as we're getting more integrated with other systems as well. I think that's going to open stuff up. Obviously the controller is great, traditionally, but I think they've done a really good job on [Xbox One]. Second screen? I don't think we've got [SmartGlass] quite right yet, but again you can really start to see these things treading together and opening up opportunities, and now having a microphone and camera."

"20 years ago, I'd have a team that would be going crazy if they had this kind of technology, now we have it and people are like, well, I don't want it, I just want my controller and my screen. It would be a real shame if we lost items like that," he added.

But Kinect is certainly a divisive topic, and Microsoft itself hasn't done much to promote its inclusion with Xbox One--the launch of Kinect Sports Rivals on April 8 feels like the publisher's first real Kinect push for its fledgling console. What does Isaac have to say to detractors of the technology? "There will always be people who don't like what you do. I will always find these console wars really funny as well, personally I have a Wii U, a PS4, and an Xbox 360 and an Xbox One under my TV at home. If you are a real gamer, you get everything. You want to see everything, you want to experience all these different innovations. I just like to experience games. There's always something somewhere, whether it's on PC, mobile, or main console, which broadens my horizons and makes me a better game maker."

But there's also another consideration: how much processing power the Xbox One's Kinect takes up. Titanfall developer Respawn Entertainment, for instance, has said that ongoing optimisations to the cost of the Kinect on the Xbox One system resources might even allow the developer to increase the native resolution of the game. Just how much processing power does the Kinect take from the console? "Those things go down all the time, with every XDK," said Rare new technology development lead Nick Burton. "It gets less and less every time, I met with the guy that's in charge of the skeletal tracking last week, and he was like 'yeah, we've halved the cost of the skeletal tracking'. And that will continue to happen."

"If you look back at the Xbox 360, the dashboard got cheaper and better as the system went along," added Burton.

Meanwhile, Isaac insists that working on Kinect Sports Rivals has helped show him the broad appeal gaming can have. "My mother never really understood why I have the passion for games," he says, "and it's so rewarding to see other people, that I care about, to have the same passion for something that I love. And I think with Kinect Sports Rivals, at least with my family, that I've been able to do that. This is what I've put my heart and soul in for two years."

Many gamers have asked Microsoft to sell a Kinect-free Xbox One, but does Isaac think Microsoft will actually go ahead with the idea? "I can't say what Microsoft will do in the future. What I get frustrated about in our industry is, back in the old days, when I used to read Crash and Zzap!64, we used to have a score that was [a review score] for innovation. What Microsoft has tried to do with the previous Kinect, it was what I call 70% magical."

"It was magical 70% of the time, and 30% of the time it was like, okay, that didn't quite do what I wanted it to do. But it was pushing the boundaries. It was trying to do something new. I think as game developers we need to be looking at these things. We can't just keep putting out first-person shooters and sports simulations and those sorts of things."

"So we get this thing and then we get these naysayers who say 'well I don't want it, I just want to sit there with my headphones on and play first-person shooters.' Great, I get that. But come on guys, we're a highly creative industry, we really, really are. But I think movies are doing more than we are in some senses--when you look at things like Gravity and other stuff--and it's like, we've got to get out of that, and we've got to be doing some thing new things or people are going to go and find their entertainment elsewhere."

Kinect Sports Rivals will be released for Xbox One on April 8.

Discussion

711 comments
frankboltzmann
frankboltzmann

I'm confused. Xbox One has already been released, yet Kinect 2.0 hasn't but there's news all over the internet about MS not selling Xbox One without the Kinect. So has the Xbox One been sold with Kinect 1.0? Or without Kinect? Or will people who bought it receive a Kinect 2.0 once it's been released?

glacius_x
glacius_x

It would be a real shame only to Rare. Since the only games they know how to make are ones where you flap your self around your living room. Once a great developer, but that time has long gone.

TheWatcher000
TheWatcher000

"It's a shame" what Rare has become.


Once a great developer, now a shell of itself and vomiting out PR nonsense about a peripheral that is forced on everyone, whether they want it or not, and putting out Sports games for said peripheral.

It's hard to believe these are the guys who once gave us Donkey Kong Country and Goldeneye.

Now they just shovel bullshit for the company line.

How the mighty have fallen.



YukoAsho
YukoAsho

Why is this an article?

Seriously, the guy works for MS, what the hell is he GOING to say?  "Yeah, the Kinect sucks, it needs to go"?  OF COURSE he'd push the damned company line.


And let's be honest here, Rare hasn't made anything targeted at gamers since Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts.  Even Killer Instinct for Xbone was developed by someone else.

ulquiorracifer4
ulquiorracifer4

Kinect is about as integral to the X1 experience as toilet paper is to my shitting process.

nintendians
nintendians

I stopped listen to rareware when they started making Kinect sports.

jshipley01eb
jshipley01eb

As an Xbox One owner .. I could give a flying fart about the Kinect.  I would rather they ditched the damn thing, put better RAM in there, and stayed competitive with PS4 on a capability standpoint. I really like my 360 but man has it been hard for me to continue to love my Xbox.  They are lucky they have an exclusive on Titanfall which really is a great game.  But running at 794p I could have just gotten it on my 360 and saved 500 bucks.  Or I could have waited until now and gotten the game for free with my 500 bucks.  Microsoft, my ass hurts and I'd like to be able to sit back down now please.

shinjuki
shinjuki

For those of you that don't understand:


Technology/innovation like this needs to be heavily backed up in order to prosper. Developers don't want to spend millions of dollars on a peripheral that people can choose to have or not, that's not a secure investment you see? The fact that every single Xbox One player has the Kinect means that developers are free to put money and resources into the development of games that implement the technology, confidently, knowing that every Xbox One owner will be able to experience it.


Wii for example. If the Wii just had a Gamecube 2.0 controller and had the option of buying the Wii Wand, Developers would have been hesitant, if not completely pass up the opportunity, to develop games that implement the control scheme. This is the same happening with the Kinect 1.0.

pedrovnone
pedrovnone

The two articles about Rare games finished me... Rare now is ridiculous... im so sad, the great days are gone. 


Okay, Killer instinct is a good game and im happy for that, well it could be much much better.


The other classic games i want from rare... well, its not the same rare, anymore... the minds behind the great games we played in the past moved out. ...  .... .... .....


.... .... .... .....


Im decided... i quit xbox, im going to buy a playstation 4 and try something diferent and better. why am i going to keep xbox if it is less powerfull? even if real great games come to xbox one i still want a ps4 cause i wish  play all the multiplatforms games and its exclusives on the best hardware, then im sure i'll have the best experience.

shingui5
shingui5

"So we get this thing and then we get these naysayers who say 'well I don't want it, I just want to sit there with my headphones on and play first-person shooters.' "

Oh, how pleasant. If you dislike the kinect, you are a mindless shooter player. 

Thanks Rare, you've done wonders to help better my opinion of the kinect.... 

jakerscythe
jakerscythe

Well said, Rare puppy! Now run along to your M$ master and get a treat.

nightsinner
nightsinner

Well build a time machine and go back to 20 years ago because kinect games suck. Eventually I will own both new consoles but I bought a PS4 first because I'm not paying for a kinect.

Someguy1212
Someguy1212

Rare hasn't been the same since it got bought out by M$

michyeosseo
michyeosseo

Well, 20 years ago I'd go crazy over slamming some finger paint onto unused wallpaper and going to the petting zoo (ok, I still get excited over that last one). But these days I seriously don't trust the rabbits at the petting zoo... They just stare at me... like they're spying on me and sending my information to the government.

XNEXUS666X
XNEXUS666X

The only thing stopping me from throwing that stupid thing out the window is Skype (and a lesser trade-in value).

mattsaroni
mattsaroni

"20 years ago, I'd have a team that would be going crazy if they had this kind of technology"


Does he even know what's wrong with this sentence??

rarson
rarson

I actually agree with everything he said, and anyone who knows a damn thing about Rare knows that his opinions embody the spirit of the company, whether or not they have as a whole lost their way a bit since Microsoft came into the picture.


I'm glad that people still think like this. Otherwise the industry would be even more cookie-cutter than it already is.

deadpen
deadpen

Hey rare........................shut the f#ck up. 1993-1994 would have been a great year for motion control (cause graphics were sh!t). Now you need graphics and story lines, not gimmicks. I don't want to play fable and whip the reins to make the horse go. If I wanted to do that I'd hop the fence behind the house and take one of those horses out for a spin.

chuckles471
chuckles471

20 years ago, I would've have been excited.


But I have learnt that motion controls are only god for dance and exercise games.  


I say this as someone who has played the whole of killzone 3 with motion controls, sure you have god-like precision when aiming but you can't put your gun down or you will just look at your feet.  I like to think I'm a fit person but holding a gun up in a aiming postion for hours causes hell with your back.

TERMINATOR-SSD
TERMINATOR-SSD

Even the developers dont like the bloody thing. Microsoft, your customers don't like it and nore does your developers, heres a hint, KILL THE DAMN THING.

BamaGoatt
BamaGoatt

20 years ago Kinect probably would appeal to me and my 16 year old brain but today my 36 year old brain says no to Kinect and Xbox one until they are sold separately to consumers.

ahpuck
ahpuck

exactly, 20 years ago.

HowlPendragon
HowlPendragon

"If you are a real gamer, you get everything. "

Translates to: If you don't buy every piece of gaming hardware available, you don't deserve to call yourself a gamer.

Was this really supposed to help convince people to buy an Xbone?

McGregor
McGregor

20 years ago I'd have loved this too. But the tech came out, and it was sort of, "meh". Not the awesome experiences that they were showcasing (but don't actually exist).

IndremaLover
IndremaLover

Even though i was a fan of Kinect 1.0, i'm skipping it this round and switched to the PS4 because i don't think that the latency improvement (90ms to 60ms) is enough to make the Kinect viable yet.  When it drops to around 30ms it'll be usable for all but the most twitch-intensive applications.


Also, as i get older and slower the latency won't matter as much.

---Cipher---
---Cipher---

20 years ago I would have been excited too! However, the reason I personally don't want a glorified TV remote is because it was SUPPOSED to be for gaming.....and where are the "good" Kinect games? XB1 launched with a "great" kinect fighting game if I'm not mistaken. The game was SOOOOOO good, the Kinect couldn't read your motions half the time.


I want this technology WHEN IT'S READY. This technology isn't ready though. Either the commands can't be read properly, or the game can't tell the Kinect what the commands mean. That and, even if it's unlikely (and stupid, which means the NSA is probably already doing it...), the Kinect being forced could not have come at a worse time. Even if MS doesn't mean to, the NSA may very well see the potential of creating a nice back door and that has a lot of people concerned.


So please, give me the Kinect when you can deliver the games and the performance it requires. I'm sure a lot of Cavemen would have LOVED a microwave but that doesn't mean it would have been a great idea since they didn't have electricity to run it.

panaicman66
panaicman66

why don't they give people the choice? like PS4.... I've been saying from the start....sell it with out the spy camera and i will buy it!


Been on xbox live since the bloody start, now play more on the ps4.....


I heard a few weeks back that MS are thinking about selling the Xbone without the Kinect and choice of memory 500GB, 1T and 2T 


wilkos
wilkos

Personally kinect can be a usefull tool at times and when havin a few beers with mates can liven up a party, but it is a tool , a toy that rarely get's used and should be optional . i would like to see it utilized better and intergrated into games better but as it stands its that thing on top of my TV the NSA watch me with . I am hoping with X1 and kinect MS push the limits and prove its worth but i doubt that will happen and as it stands i am with the majority why should we be forced to pay for it when they clearly are doing it for the money 

dubamf
dubamf

The ONLY reason Kinect isn't a total failure is because MS and the NSA forces it on you. Otherwise it would have been scraped by now. Your body is the controller. How's the COD drop shot working out for ya via Kinect?

snake3rules
snake3rules

@ulquiorracifer4  That sounds saracastic at first read, but isn't TP a pretty important part of the process??


Personally, I just think its amusing to hear this sort of propaganda... And I love his statement that the dashboard "just got cheaper" ... what does that even mean? "Cheaper" sounds worse, not better, and moreover, every person with a 360 that I know complained endlessly about the ads that plagued the dashboard as time went on.

TheWatcher000
TheWatcher000

@shinjuki

Blah, Blah, Blah.....

As usual, people like you miss the point.

From what I have seen, the majority could care less about the Kinect.  The whole point is that gamers AREN'T BEING GIVEN A CHOICE whether they want it or not.  The rest of your blather is the same kind of PR crap we would expect to hear from someone who works for the sompany.

Look, I get it, you're in love the technology, and you want your little Kinect utopian world.  Almost masturbatory in your reverence. But people should e given a choice whether they want it or not.  

Please.  Just stop.



hystavito
hystavito

@rarson  Well maybe not "If you are a real gamer, you get everything." ?  :)


I have lots of consoles, but a lot of people can really only afford one here and there.  He probably didn't mean it the way he said it, but he did say it :).

NathanRav
NathanRav

@deadpen  Well you obviously didn't play fable. Cause it had good graphics and storyline and if you could get over the hurdle of motion controls (or your irrational hatred) you would know it was an AMAZING game. True story. People like you are why innovation is rare in video games nowadays.

hystavito
hystavito

@deadpen  It's true that motion stuff has yielded a lot of gimmicky things, and will continue to.

Starry_Notion
Starry_Notion

@koutb8  Will you ban this guy please? "Great show?" What's he on about?!?! And the tidbit that may look like gibberish to you, it's Arabic. He's advertising a cleaning company in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia!! End him before this becomes a thing.

HowlPendragon
HowlPendragon

@BamaGoatt  My 2-year-old brain would probably want to chew on the Kinect

rarson
rarson

@HowlPendragon  

More like translation: "If you spend all day on internet forums bitching about the consoles you don't own because you can't afford more than one, then you're a fanboy, not a real gamer."

rarson
rarson

@dubamf  

The "NSA/Kinect" people are really starting to sound like the dumbasses who put tape over their webcam because they're too stupid to realize that the LED light right next to it turns on when the webcam is being used.

brgsteven
brgsteven

@dubamf  Really? The NSA? Show us some real proof of this MS and NSA conspiracy theory you speak of. Not gonna see you on the next espisode of Doomsday Prepers showing everyone the bunker under your trailer that lets you hide from all the Kinects on the block are we?

GinsuVictim
GinsuVictim

@dubamf I did a spinning jump, threw my controller across the room, landed prone....and can't see the TV.

shinjuki
shinjuki

@TheWatcher000 @shinjuki



>The whole point is that gamers AREN'T BEING GIVEN A CHOICE whether they want it or not


No one is forcing you to buy and Xbox One.


Microsoft says: "Here's our console. The, pretty much center of it, Kinect comes with it (for the reasons I said and why ever else they wanted to.) Some, Childish, people are making some ridiculousness about it saying that they're being "forced into getting it." That they don't want it so why does it come with the Xbox? Do you get what's wrong with that sentiment? This console is their creation, whatever they wanted to put out, and your demanding, very childishly, that they pander to you and whoever agrees with you, anything else is unfair.


What I said was perfectly on point. The only way that developers are going to feel comfortable spending resources to create GOOD things for this technology is if it comes with the console. If every person that owns and Xbox One, at least, has the ability to experience their creations.


I don't get where people like you come from. Ok, their hasn't been very many games or effort put towards it thus far, and even fewer good games, but like I clearly pointed out, this is because the Kinect was never reached a wide audience. The only way that developers are going to want to put the time into the technology and eventually get it down to be able to create really cool things is if it has a wide audience and it comes with the console. Do you just have such little faith that these awesome game developers won't ever be able to do something with this technology that has literally endless possibilities?


PS: I was considering just letting you fester over there, what your saying is very rude and unpleasant. I don't much care to talk with you, but thought I'd give an intelligent conversation a try.

HowlPendragon
HowlPendragon

@rarson So being able to afford only one console = fanboy?

Get that logic away from me, lol

tom2750
tom2750

@rarson @dubamf  not all webcams have an led light plus if the NSA want's to they could make the webcam watch you without the light turning on

tom2750
tom2750

@brgsteven @dubamf  look it up you moron Microsoft has been working with the NSA for like 20 years to let them spy on us

l3igl3oss
l3igl3oss

@TheWatcher000 @shinjukiHe is right though. For every add-on there is, the library gets fractured as many times. Remember the Genesis, SEGA CD and 32X? It made developers anxious to develop for these when they weren't part of a unified system, while Super Nintendo had all of those extras (more colors, Mode 7, polygons through special chips), except for CD sound. Even the Dreamcast lacked an unified control system for most of its games, resorting to peripherals that were better realized on the Wii. You know why? Because it wasn't a choice for Nintendo consumers, they knew what games they were getting with the Wii, while with the Dreamcast you never knew if the game you bought would be experienced better with extra investment on peripherals. The key word is "unified", for both consumers and developers.
Though I still don't know how normal games will benefit from Kinect's extra features...

TheWatcher000
TheWatcher000

@shinjuki @TheWatcher000 

Typical childish retort.

You read the whole thing, and have no response, because outside of your own tunnel vision logic, you have nothing to say.

And I am SO disappointed you don't want to converse with me anymore.  Really, my life has no meaning now.

Please kid, get past your own ego.  No one cares what you think.

Go play, now. .

TheWatcher000
TheWatcher000

@shinjuki @TheWatcher000

Believe me, I don't care to talk with you either, because you are so rigid and tone deaf and married to the bullshit logic in your head that it's useless to try and reach you.

I wasn't festering, I said what I had to say, and could care less if you responded or not.  I merely pointed out the point that you seem to be completely baffled by.  The fact that most people want a CHOICE whether they have this thing or not

So now it is "childish" to not want to be forced to buy something, in this case a peripheral that the majority clearly either do not want or will rarely use. 


PERHAPS "there" will be a time when technology will reach the point where it is embraced by the masses, but even if it does, you simply do not take away choice from the people who are buying your product.  You can't advance innovation by forcing it on people.


It isn't good business sense, marketing sense, or common sense.


And your point of view is nonsense.


And if The Kinect STILL doesn't have anymore to offer than being a creepy spybox masquerading as the most expensive TV remote ever in the next few years, I hope that you will have broken out of your trance.  Kinect Master Race isn't happening, kid.  #dealwithit.


You don't get where people like me come from, because you have this authoritarian mind set that wants to impose everything on people whether they want it or not.


I'm perfectly capable of making my own choices of what is right for me.  


Now, you "fester" over that one, cupcake.