Carthage Empire all Wrong.....

Avatar image for Vintage0218
#1 Posted by Vintage0218 (25 posts) -
I boycotting this one Because in the last Civilization V game that I played Hannibal was portrayed as White which is totally inaccurate. Now they are saying he is an Arab lol what nonsense. Carthage was an ancient BLack civilization. Carthegian general Hannibal was a BLack man. A Black General. From Africa/Carthage that almost defeated mighty Rome. Now they are saying he is an Arab lol what? Rome messed up and so did Civ V or was it 4. They really drew attention to this subject when they made him white lol..... Ever seen the temptations the movie about the black musicians in the 60's yea, Hollywood wanted them to release an album cover with not their picture but a photo of some white kids playing at the beach lol same thing here. Another attempt to white wash history. Well sry you can do your own research and find out that this guy was Black not white and certainly not Arabic they don't even claim him lol. Arabs don't even claim this guy he was not Semetic lol.. Ever heard of Black man who is still white yea they come up with all sorts of crazyniss to deny Blacks any moral or self resepcet that their ancestor achieved greatness in antiquity.. Ever heard of the """"Hamitic""" Black man look it up lol... You will find out this phrase was coined by a guy named Segliman. Much like this and Hannibal look it up...
Avatar image for Vintage0218
#3 Posted by Vintage0218 (25 posts) -
We have always been led to believe that Carthage was a white or Semitic enclave in North Africa, and that it's people were very different from the indigenous Africans. Wayne Chandler,therefore, first addresses himself to this question. I shall not go over this matter which has been dealt with at length in other journals. Suffice it to say, that the Phoenicians were not homogeneous. Whatever their early beginnings (which Diop calls Africoid) and whatever their close connections, as brothers and allies of the Dynastic Egyptians, their racial composition became rather complex in certain periods. At the time of Hannibal, however, there is no question that they had so intermixed with the African people in Carthage that the African element had become the dominant strain, not in Phonecian city-states of Tyre and Sidon but in Carthage itself. This contention is proven by skeletal remains, by inconography, by many cultural elements found in the historical strata associated with Hannibal. The works of Pittard and Gsell , in particulae establish this." - Dr. Ivan Van Sertima This was taken from the late great Dr. Ivan Van Sertima "Hannibal was Black" "Carthage was Black" ancient Africa was "Black" "Rome's greatest nemesis was a Black man" Mainstream society keeps him buried though..... Remember Gladiator with Russel Crowe, in the beginning of the movie where he was being carried in a cart and it was a black man pushing him in the cart to go into being a gladiator slave...well yea both of them had been caught and forced to fight but Russel asked the black man where he was from and he said "Im from Carthage" and yea he proved to be a awesome warrior.
Avatar image for Vintage0218
#5 Posted by Vintage0218 (25 posts) -
"When they explain their own historical past or study their languages, that seems normal. Yet , when an African does likewise to help reconstruct the national tempermant of his people, distorted by colonialism, that is considered backward or alarming." "Our investigations have convinced us that the West has not been calm enough and objective enough to teach us our history correctly, without crude falsifications" "Only a loyal determined struggle to destroy *cultural aggression* and bring out the truth , whatever it may be, is revolutionary and consonant with real progress; it is the only approach which opens to the universal. Humantarian declarations, are not called for and add nothing to real progress"
Avatar image for thorn3000
#6 Posted by thorn3000 (326 posts) -
You do know you sound racist right? Why would it matter what color his skin was? The important thing are his achievements
Avatar image for Vintage0218
#7 Posted by Vintage0218 (25 posts) -
The point of this is not about racism this is about a restoration of the records. This is to set the record straight. A restoration of a consciousness of the African people and the reconquering of a Promethean one.... It's clich'e that Africans/Blacks have no History. and it's not going to work for long. I can see if I was lying about this, that this stuff has not been summoned up already, that it hasn't already been debated/proven right to enlightened minds but it's out here, this is not esoteric knowledge, this stuff is out here. This stuff is old. Most people are just scared or are content with the way things are but, their lying. How can you support a liar?
Avatar image for millbro
#8 Posted by millbro (151 posts) -

Well Carthage was Phoenician, they settled there becuase it was a great place central for trade and had great land for producing food. So the majority of the carthaginian people were middle eastern in apperence. They do think Hannibal was black since the numidians were mostly african. But the problem i have with hannibal is he had a shot of winning the whole war but didnt take it. Then again scipio was the winner and what would make you look better? Beating a military mastermind or just a average joe? Some historians think hannibal wasnt as good as everyone thinks..

Avatar image for Vintage0218
#9 Posted by Vintage0218 (25 posts) -

Well Carthage was Phoenician, they settled there becuase it was a great place central for trade and had great land for producing food. So the majority of the carthaginian people were middle eastern in apperence. They do think Hannibal was black since the numidians were mostly african. But the problem i have with hannibal is he had a shot of winning the whole war but didnt take it. Then again scipio was the winner and what would make you look better? Beating a military mastermind or just a average joe? Some historians think hannibal wasnt as good as everyone thinks..

millbro
The Priestess of Tanit, in Carthage, and in this game, Father Delattre found her Sarcophagus(found her tomb) her cadaver was found inside (her corpse was found), she was a woman, a Negro/Black woman, they studied her remains and concluded that she belonged to the Negro race. This Priestess was part of the elite in Carthage/ a highly religious position was held by a Negro/Black woman. This civilization is Negro /Black/ African. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&gt>>>>>>>; "Among the various races in Carthage, the most highly placed socially, the most resepected, the one that held the levers of political command, the one whom they owed that civilization , if we are to judge by the material proofs presented instead of interpreting them in line with prejudices we have been taught, was the Negro race." -- Diop
Avatar image for sabbs1000
#10 Posted by sabbs1000 (25 posts) -
of all the small issues to gripe over lol.. You take that stance TAKE IT HARD!!! no one but you cares...
Avatar image for AllHailTheSith
#11 Posted by AllHailTheSith (296 posts) -

HA HA HA!!!  Ok!  Black Power!  Whatever...  Black, White, Red, or Yellow... they all died upon the cross like the slaves they were!  

Avatar image for ThatAmazingGuy
#13 Posted by ThatAmazingGuy (25 posts) -
This is ridiculous, Hannibal was not black he was of Semitic origin. We know this to be true because of similarities between Carthage's beliefs, language and culture which much resembled that of the Arabs, Hebrews, and Akkadians,etc. We know the Southern African (black) people have nothing to do with the northern African empires, because they lacked many of the technologies as their neighboring empires or peoples. The Hamatic man, was created in the 19th century as an application of scientific racism. The Hamatic man is backed up by no evidence at all, and therefor should not be believed. The The notion that the northern African empires( Carthage, Egypt,etc) where predominantly black is a ridiculous claim backed by no evidence what so ever. Also, race is not biological; If you Judge a man by race then why do you not judge him by height and eye color?
Avatar image for ThatAmazingGuy
#14 Posted by ThatAmazingGuy (25 posts) -
[QUOTE="Vintage0218"]We have always been led to believe that Carthage was a white or Semitic enclave in North Africa, and that it's people were very different from the indigenous Africans. Wayne Chandler,therefore, first addresses himself to this question. I shall not go over this matter which has been dealt with at length in other journals. Suffice it to say, that the Phoenicians were not homogeneous. Whatever their early beginnings (which Diop calls Africoid) and whatever their close connections, as brothers and allies of the Dynastic Egyptians, their racial composition became rather complex in certain periods. At the time of Hannibal, however, there is no question that they had so intermixed with the African people in Carthage that the African element had become the dominant strain, not in Phonecian city-states of Tyre and Sidon but in Carthage itself. This contention is proven by skeletal remains, by inconography, by many cultural elements found in the historical strata associated with Hannibal. The works of Pittard and Gsell , in particulae establish this." - Dr. Ivan Van Sertima This was taken from the late great Dr. Ivan Van Sertima "Hannibal was Black" "Carthage was Black" ancient Africa was "Black" "Rome's greatest nemesis was a Black man" Mainstream society keeps him buried though..... Remember Gladiator with Russel Crowe, in the beginning of the movie where he was being carried in a cart and it was a black man pushing him in the cart to go into being a gladiator slave...well yea both of them had been caught and forced to fight but Russel asked the black man where he was from and he said "Im from Carthage" and yea he proved to be a awesome warrior.

Dr. Ivan Van Sertima sounds like someone who need to be more educated with archaeology and science. The claim that the Carthaginians are black because of found bone remains Is false. You cant tell a persons race by their bone remains 100%. Because not all all races are a hundred percent pure. I'm sure that the Carthaginians themselves might have mated with blacks, but the claim of them being completely black is insane and backed by no evidence.
Avatar image for boruta01
#15 Posted by boruta01 (191 posts) -

pics or it didnt happen,

also who cares about bunch of loosers from ancient africa? Romans stomped them to dust, salted their lands and almost removed them from history, those left alive have become slaves for rest of their days. We know that they rided elephants to battle and were having big fleet. But who cares? Play game, reverse history, have fun, and dont bring racism to computer game.

 

PS: trolling is an art.

 

 

Avatar image for Razgovory_basic
#16 Posted by Razgovory_basic (25 posts) -

Hello, I don't post here often, but I saw this and had to weigh in.  I fear Mr. Vintage is badly misinformed.  First off, the makers of Civilization V and Rome Total War II are not the same people, so boycotting one to harm the other is unlikely to do much damage to the  the intended target.

 

Secondly, Africa is a geographic expression not an ethnic or "racial" one.  Africa is a very large place, with diverse peoples who have often been divided by difficult terrain.  Simply because someone is from Africa, does not mean you would automatically consider them "black".  Race is a can of worms, that most anthropologists would rather not get into.  It's inexact, full of political pitfalls, and nationalist pride.  I don't know what Hannibal looked like.   There is no uncontested image of him surviving in the modern day.  His appearance and race was probably similar to his countrymen and those people probably appeared similar to the ones that live in Tunisia today.  Terms like "Hamitic" and "Semetic" are outdated and no longer used much outside of loopy race scientists.  In fact the "Hamatic" and "Semetic" languages now considered the same language group, Afro-Asiatic.

 

We know the Carthagenians spoke an Afro-Asiatic language like the rest of the people of North Africa.  Language is not a good indicator of race though.  Afro-Asiatic is spoken by people living in such far away places as Mali, Somalia, Israel, Iraq, Malta, and Morrocco and there is a wide range of morphology in these people.  Still, I would say that most people of North Africa 2300 years ago looked like the people of North Africa today.

Dr. Ivan Van Sertima is to put it bluntly, a crank.  He is similar to the race scientists of the early 20th century and has made bizzare claims such the Mesoamerican peoples being African immigrants.  He is in the same league as those who tried to prove that an Aryan race founded civilization and thus can be safely ignored.

 

Lastly, I would like to point out that trying to find empowerment and racial pride in the civilizations of North Africa (Carthage, Egypt, etc) is a quiotixic endevor at best for African Americans.  Most African Americans are decended from subsaharan West Africans (along with a healthy dose of European blood.)  North Africans did occasionally cross the Sahara into West Africa, but mostly to buy slaves, thus creating the great slave markets that Europeans would later exploit in the colonization of the New World.  Your Average African American might have some ancestors who were North Africans, but he's more likely to have Viking blood then that of a Pharoh.  An African American taking pride in the works of Ancient Egypt is like an Swede taking pride in the building of the Great Wall of China.  It's possible that some of his ancestors worked on it, but not very likely.  Simply because Sweden and China are on the same landmass (Eurasia), doesn't mean they had a lot of contact in the pre-modern world.  The same goes for Africa, which has some of the harshest enviroments in the world and travel was noriously difficult.

 

Avatar image for quikstrike98
#17 Posted by quikstrike98 (29 posts) -

Why would you care what race Hannibal was? The Romans certainly didn't. They thought everyone non-Roman--black, white, brown, whatever--to be inferior to them and barbarians. They were equal opportunity enslavers of defeated peoples. Ask Spartacus, a Thracian from what is now the Balkans.

Avatar image for dawnofme
#18 Posted by dawnofme (26 posts) -
Most of this information your basing your opinions on such as the body and sarcophagus, I don't know where you are getting them because I cant find any references to any of it anywhere. At the end of the day basing people on their race and colour didn't exist two thousand yeas ago and is only a modern creation (last few hundred years). Basing your opinion of a game based on the ideas as race of a person is never going to achieve anything