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nepu7supastar7

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#1  Edited By nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@hardwenzen said:

Its a thread that shoud've been made in 2009. By now, nobody gives a damn about Halo. Even lems are only defending it because its their flagship, but in reality, when you look at the numbers, nobody is playing that mess. By Reach launch, the IP wasn't exciting anymore, and with Halo 4, it died. Everything that came after it was just trolling the franchise.

That's very true and I think the show just shows how dated even the story is told in the games. It needs a complete remake from the ground up because people need to find a reason to care again. Those who do are mostly stuck in the past where they truly believe older and slower was better. No sprint, no extra abilities, etc. If we're going to get it back to where it was: we need to let go of the past.

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#2 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

If you don't know, I'm a HUGE fan of Halo and I've been following it since Combat Evolved first hit Xbox. So you can imagine how excited I was to finally see the tv show, right?

Well...... things were said and things were done and we all know how the fans reacted to it. "Trash, garbage, disgrace" the show was called just about every insult an angry fan base could think of and I admit: MOST of the complaints are warranted. But there are some points in certain criticisms where I'm just left scratching my head...

The videogame story is vast and is told through multiple forms of media like books and short movies. But are we really willing to believe that it was constructed perfectly in the state it was made? We have a main character named John who happens to be the main character and the face of the player with zero emotions, zero personality and not even a face. This was good for the time because the player would basically fill the shoes of the Chief and it added a much needed sense of immersion to the game. But that doesn't work in a media that focuses its attention on the story and the protagonist. Master Chief needs a face and a deeper backstory and I see the show trying to remedy that. Maybe they got carried away on some aspects but they actually tried to make John feel like a person. I know plenty of critics in favor of the show say this in its defense but I think it *is* true that the effort made still deserves praise in itself.

Then we get to the changes in the story.. The Spartan II's are ripped right from their homes and are forced to become perfect soldiers and save humanity. And in Bungie's version, they're all just ok with that? How do you expect someone to save something they don't know the meaning of or find any value in? The Spartan II's are emotionally broken people and taking away any sort of conflict they could've had in their upbringing just eliminates any sense of humanity in them. This is yet another thing that the Halo show addresses, and John actually fights Dr. Halsey's indoctrination, something the videogame John would never do. Instead, videogame Chief is a perfect character who never questions his orders, never fights his upbringing and plays gopher boy for the UNSC.

"Secure the LZ, Chief!" "Defend this station, Master Chief!" "The Master Chief and I need to see if we can save some soldiers."

Generally speaking, it feels like all of the complaints about the story changes are from folks mindlessly defending a narratively flawed universe. The show is basically everything told in reverse with the biggest plot holes in mind that the writers found that needed to be changed then they just slapped the "alternate timeline" label on it so that the fans wouldn't have to worry about those changes being canon. To be honest, a part of me kinda wishes it was canon because Bungie danced around some events that could've led to some interesting plot and character development.

Maybe it's something I've missed in the other universe (and I *did* miss every book and graphic novel) but I just don't see a reason to defend the original universe with an unbelievably perfect leading character and very little conflict among the main cast. And that kinda hurts because I actually love that universe in itself. If anyone has a more informed viewpoint in defense of the og Halo story, I'd like to hear it. What makes the story good? How could the show have worked if Paramount kept Master Chief's helmet on the entire time? Is it even possible to make a good show about Halo with the Master Chief as the main character?

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#3 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

Watch? lol There's not much else to do with a cutscene, especially when I wanna know what's going on in the story. Maybe drink something but that's about it.

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#4  Edited By nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@nod_calypse: Huh. The intention to be a rail shooter actually makes sense. Come to think of it, there's a Silent Hill arcade somewhere (extremely rare) that's a rail shooter. I played it once a year ago and I did notice that a good chunk of it had levels from SH3. That was pretty weird. The Lurkers were very common and so were the split-headed dogs. I guess mystery solved! The arcade sucked though... got repetitive too fast and they just shoved Pyramid Head in there for some reason. The giant worm boss made an appearance too.

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#5  Edited By nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts
@vl4d_l3nin said:
@nod_calypse said:

@vl4d_l3nin: Uh, have you played SH3? Cheryl/Heather is anything but subtle. The ENTIRE game is an explain-athon, lol. Don't get me wrong, I love it, but to claim that old school SH was always subtle is ludicrous.

wtf are you talking about? The plot of SH3 doesn't even really start until about halfway through the game, you're just trying to get Heather home up until that point. Where in the mall, subway, or sewers is anything being explained? I'd say a lack of explanation is what the first act of that game suffers from.

The first part has Heather meeting Claudia and Douglas. Claudia tells Heather that the monsters have come to witness the rebirth of Paradise and tells Heather to remember her true self and also that which she must become. Then Heather goes to the other world side of the mall and Douglas tries to talk to her twice and she just brushes him off as she takes the subway home. From there, it's basic game stuff until you get to her apartment but while the goal IS to go home: you already get an idea that Heather is tied to everything that's been happening around her.

Claudia literally tells Heather that she needs to become something to rebirth paradise. There's no insinuation to that, it's thrown right at your face. And Douglas tells Heather that he needs to talk to her about her birth. Again, throwing it at your face that Heather has something off about herself. I don't know what more explanation you need to know what's going on but Team Silent was very transparent with their storytelling. SH2 had similar issues too.

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#6  Edited By nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@nod_calypse: Played but I haven't finished it yet. I like how it feels like a return to form in terms of atmosphere but I REALLY don't like the use of live-action cinematics and its obsession to hold your hand every step of the way through the narrative. Even though I haven't finished it yet, I already have a good idea what the ending is going to be and that's definitely NOT a good thing. I also don't like this new story device "Silent Hill" phenomenon. It ruins the magic of the mystery the old games had and it offers a simple cop-out explanation to something that should've been left to the individual's interpretation.

But........... it was free-ninety-nine so who am I to complain? I'm just glad Silent Hill is getting more attention.

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#7 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@R4gn4r0k:

I'll get it when it gets cheaper and when more characters come out. I'm just tired of getting fighting games day one and having to buy more characters piece by piece.

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#8 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@warm_gun said:

@nepu7supastar7: What does the land have to do with tone? It's about attitude. The reboot felt more like some Marvel type shit than Norse mythology, including dialogue and some of the designs. The villain looked and talked like white trash rather than a god. Through the heavy dialogue, they made it too real, thereby the idea of these gods interacting dumber. The old games were more effective at feeling like Greek epics thanks to their simplicity.

Joel's change and Kratos' aren't even in the same ball park.

I disagree, the land has everything to do with the tone, we're basically talking about level design and it wouldn't make sense if the Norse realm felt the same as the Greek islands. I do see what you mean about the bizarre designs they went with for the new villains, especially with Baldur and a fat Thor. But really, even the Greek pantheon wasn't properly characterized either. They just spoke formally but no one even faked an Italian accent. Viking warriors were more brutal and vulgar so white trash is actually pretty on par with what to expect from the Gods.

I wouldn't say that the change with Joel and Kratos is 1x1 identical but they're close enough for a comparison. Last of Us did a better job with the characterization and growth of Joel and his development was more apparent through the end of part one whereas Kratos' development was mainly insinuated in newer GoW games. And that's because the old GoW games were a little too centered on action. Old Kratos felt very flat with mainly one emotion and while it was fun to watch him rage on his enemies: there wasn't much to him beyond revenge. Is it bad that Kratos became more of a person? I personally don't think so.

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#9 nepu7supastar7
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@warm_gun said:

@nepu7supastar7: There was no farther to take the character. The new one is a different person and the game he occupies is totally different in tone. If they cared about developing the old character, they would have modelled the face more like the old. The right way forward for this series was a completely new protagonist in a new pantheon with the "fixed" cinematic camera angles and same brutality, but different control scheme and mechanics.

There was actually plenty of room for growth in Kratos. He finally finished his quest for vengeance and he saw that it still brought no closure. The new Kratos is more seasoned and mature and that makes perfect sense after he finally got rid of all his frustration in the previous games. And of course it's still the same person since he literally has the same design and backstory. I see this as no different than what happened to Joel in Last of Us part 2. He grew as a person and learned to open his heart again - thanks to the adventure he had with Ellie. It's the same thing with Kratos. Sure, the character can grow any other direction and maybe you'll disagree with the direction they went with Kratos but it's still a reasonable direction he could've gone.

As for the tone, he basically went to a completely different land so it should be expected that it would have a different tone. It's a new culture, new system of beliefs and new pantheon. Also, his face is just a less exaggerated version of Kratos' original face when you look at him. I think that has more to do with the more realistic art style they went with for the new GoW and less about not caring how he looks like the original Kratos. There's a mod where you can give him the old goatee and he actually looks almost exactly the same as he did in the old games.

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#10  Edited By nepu7supastar7
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@Mozelleple112:

Jumping can be good when done right, as long as there's more to the gameplay. Even the new Mario games have more intuitive mechanics to jumping that include vaulting, flipping forwards, backwards, twirling, skipping, jumping wall-to-wall, belly bouncing and sliding and even a big 'ol butt stomp.

-Bayonetta fights circles around Dante because she can actually perform various forms of dodging with added Witch Time. I think her fighting mechanics are the ultimate version of DMC combat. She also has a targeting point when in the air so platforming is much easier.

I think jumping can still be a useful mechanic these days - depending on the genre and game. Jumping doesn't serve GoW4 or even Batman Arkham but it still serves games like Mario, Tomb Raider and DMC because it's an extension of the character's prowess and the developers make full use of it in their level design. Honestly, Kratos jumping never felt or looked right in the old games. He's not a jumping kind of guy and it doesn't really add much to his fighting style that couldn't be done on the ground. But even so, that's not to say that it's a useless mechanic, in general.