Gallion-Beast: Fair enough. Valid points. We differ on what's important about unions. Really, I can't think of what more to say. I think PumpkinBoogie and Redders have the right idea towards this. GS could have got rid of unions and that would be it. They haven't, and met us half way - in what I think is the best they can do. I believe we should reciprocate this generosity with trying to make things work - compromise. That does mean changing what we do and how we do it, yes, while fundamentally staying true to what we ultimately want and aspire to. Reality hits hard. If you don't roll with change, you'll be rolled over by it.
Interesting insight Redders. While the appointment of mods is entirely up to the Community Manager, I don't think such a decision would be based on that criterion alone. However, as a user, I've always been passionate about unions - I like seeing them do well and growing. This is why I made this thread, and I'm very glad that at least something has been achieved in all my years of campaigning for unions since 2006. On closing/stickying topics in your union: I've had a look at your union and you have over 10 stickies. For me, stickies have always served the purpose of highlighting important threads. If you have too many, it kinda eliminates the point of them - like highlighting most of the text in a page, as then nothing is actually highlighted. So I think a reform on your end is possible. On our end: I can certainly promise to help out on closing/stickying topics. I'm sure something could be easily arranged, so I wouldn't make such a decision on that basis alone.
Okay, will generally address the points put forward. Will start with Gallion-Beast: Community policing: unions have always been subjected ultimately to the ToU. They had the option to be exclusive but most remained inclusive of anyone who wanted to contribute. Troublesome users will still be dealt with just like they always have been. Unions were never really given the powers to properly deal with them - there was nothing you could really do apart from relying on the mods to deal with them, formally speaking. Informally, a PM or social pressure was the most that could be done to get bad users to fall in line - this usually works, with extra formal steps being able to be taken if necessary. Not only that, but there is usually a mod or two at the bigger unions that can help in this regard - so unions could form a partnership with this mod to help out in keeping the peace. 2. Unions own rules: true, but believe me, from experience, you will have to draw up clear lines and if/when necessary, enforce them. GS has always taken care of this - doing it in a more insular and personal level can make things trickier. Certainly easier to rely on an outside independent and non-personal force to do this and make non-biased judgements. 3. Yes - but in another site, they'll be able to go much further than that. Actual moderating, suspensions and bannings. I don't think every union officer and leader would have the skills, experience or intuition to make such calls sensibly. Of course, this would be something they'd need to sort out and keep control of, but this time you won't be able to blame GS if something goes wrong. 4. That and things like blogs, levels, events etc. Also, again, unions were never really given that much control - that's really an illusion. The mods and ultimately, the admins control things around here. gunslinger024: Yes, you make an excellent point. I too agree the news was delivered poorly. It focused on the negative rather than the positive. People are psychologically prone to loss - so talk of taking things away heightens their awareness and the self-defence system boots in. So they become anxious and panicky that their safe secure communities they've been in for so long are going to disappear and everything's going to go wrong. GS could have told us what they're adding and improving to cushion the loss and even arrived at this compromise so it wouldn't be all that bad - maybe even had a consultation process for users to put forward their views, so they feel they've been listened to. The compromise: of course this isn't the ideal situation. We want unions to stay; they want unions to go. Two opposite sides. Can't please everyone or reconcile completely, but the compromise we have now is honestly the best we're going to get if you want your community to continue on GS. Let's not forget this is the first time ever really GS has acknowledged its done wrong and is at least trying to do something. I'd like to reciprocate that generosity of spirit by at least trying to make things work in the new GS. Remember, without GS in the first place, there wouldn't be any unions at all - so I'm always mindful not to bite the hand that feeds you. So ultimately, it's up to the communities themselves on what way they want to go. One thing that's sure though is the unions feature will be going - nothing can stop that. What won't be going now is the communities - essentially what they are. This is a victory - we've won this battle. I'd be happy with what we have instead of pushing our luck - as I don't think GS really have anything else in store for us.
We're very quick to focus on the negative. Here's the positive: we managed to get GS to rethink its position regarding unions. That's quite significant. One thing that is certain is the unions feature itself will be gone. However, the communities - the most important part - will be preserved in some shape or form. Sure, you may not be able to control the board anymore, but honestly, the only powers you had were closing and sticking topics. How often did you do that? And yes, you can and should rely on mods to help you out - that's what we're here for. So don't be afraid to ask one of us to stick or close a topic. Chances are, one of us may even be a regular at your board, and will help keep it clean. As for positions within the communities: you can still have an informal organisation. Create a topic detailing who is what and does what - that should provide recognition. The leader and officer positions in reality only gave you a tag and the power to close/stick topics - they weren't that great really and were all for show. You can still achieve that same effect of organisation. At the end of the day, we have been victorious here. We got GS to rethink what its doing. Instead of no unions, we've got a guarantee that they will be continued as regular boards (which is really what unions are for the most part). GS aren't obligate to do that and have been quite generous to us for doing that. You no longer have to move off site to continue your communities - which is a lot harder than it sounds. How will you get new recruits? What will be the ToU? Who will keep the leader and officers in check - can you trust them with a huge amount of control and power? What about other features - GS will have an entire site load of features - will you be able to keep up? Moving off site sounds attractive at first, but when you get into the details, it's actually harder than you'd think. GS has taken care of the stuff I've listed and more. You will miss its supporting structure if you were to go off site. With what we have achieved, I don't think any community needs to leave GS now - but of course, it's entirely up to them.
[QUOTE="LarkAnderson"]Hey all, thanks for putting this petition together! While we totally understand your frustrations and disappointment about Unions going away, we are unfortunately unable to keep them around. BUT, I've looked into things, and what we CAN do is offer Union leaders the ability to have their Unions converted into a regular forum on the new site so that nothing's lost. You can find more details about this in the original post, which has been updated. Thanks again! Excellent! Result! I'm very glad this campaign was successful. Thank you Lark! And thank you to all those who supported this campaign - your support brought this about! We're stronger together! :D
Indeed. It's been great serving as an officer and participating in discussions. We can still continue them in the future OT though, so I hope to still see you guys around. EDIT: Check the link again, everyone. ;) Union leaders will have the option now to transfer their union to a regular board in the new GS. I'd like to see AU continued in the new GS, in some shape or form. The high quality and respectful debate we have here is what makes AU great and unique. It's entirely up to our leader though. I trust he'll make the right decision for the union.
Uh yes, of course you should mourn the dead. As an atheist, I believe that death is the final stage of life. Even more so should you remember the life somebody had - as it's forever gone. The dead should indeed be rightfully respected.
Also, just a general response: if you think mods are somehow robots that don't have their own minds, then you won't believe how wrong you are. We're users too. We enjoy using this site. We want an input into the new GS as well. Feedback days are coming up, and I would encourage everyone willing to participate in them - GS want to know what you think. I for example would like to see active unions having a place in the new GS. I genuinely believe it's the right thing to do - and I'll do everything I can to bring that about. That fact alone proves those wrong who think mods are somehow mindless robots. We're not. I can assure you of that.
Don't mind the changes. Unions being removed is mostly a good thing, but the ones that are still active I think can be brought over with the new GS. I am optimistic and really looking forward to what else GS has in mind. :)
Believe me, if we can survive 2006, we can survive this. The changes here are nothing compared to back then. Unions being dismantled isn't a bad idea - it's what you do with the ones remaining active - I'd like to see continuity for them.
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