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drumjod

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#1 drumjod
Member since 2005 • 855 Posts

This is still happening very often. Lately, it seems to happen every time that I return to an article I have already posted on. If someone has up-voted or responded to my comment, I seem to get the invalid token error every time. No amount of refreshing the page fixes it.

It's pretty annoying because this completely destroys my ability to have a discussion with anyone, and sometimes it makes me feel like a jerk for not being able to respond after someone initially responded to my comment.

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#2 drumjod
Member since 2005 • 855 Posts

Thanks for posting this topic, I'm seeing a lot of thought provoking responses. There seems to be a lot of backlash from people who have never played this game, so I created a new forum topic titled, "Undertale Review Controversy - How could this game earn a 9 in a professional Gamespot review?"

For those of you who actually played the game and genuinely didn't enjoy it, I completely respect that opinion and admit that this game is not for everyone. Hopefully that comes through in my post. It is a really interesting topic and it's explored in depth. To read the article, go to http://www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/undertale-review-controversy-how-could-this-game-e-32781985/

Feel free to post a response whether you enjoyed it or not or have any thoughts about what is said in the article.

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#3 drumjod
Member since 2005 • 855 Posts

Only a few months after its official release, Undertale is being called a classic title by modern gamers and has already received a lot of buzz from professional gaming journalists. At the same time, the game is receiving considerable backlash from gamers who have never played the game. A large number of comments in the forums and review page on Gamespot demonstrate that the game is being judged as "objectively worse" than triple A titles such as Bloodborne, The Witcher 3, Fallout 4, Metal Gear Solid V, and Black Ops 3 by a number of Gamespot users.

This post is dedicated to my gamer friends who are having a difficult time accepting the fact that such a simple, brief, and graphically limited game actually deserves the praise it's been receiving. It can be hard to comprehend why a game like this can earn as high or higher scores than state-of-the-art large budget titles, but I'll try to explain this in depth without boring you if that's possible. As you read on, keep in mind that these words are simply my own opinion.

This essay was partially inspired from a post on the Gamespot review page for Undertale where a user said, "So this piece of shit gets a 9 and say a game like black ops 3 takes a 7 ? why ?! even if black ops 3 is broken it deserves better score than this shit. I dont understand how those ppl rate games. hell even a mobile game is better than this." The following words are primarily in response to anyone who is under the same impression or who feels confused like this user appeared to be.

Advanced or high end graphics, physics, and mechanics might be an essential part of the experience for you, but there are a lot of gamers out here who don't require them for a game to be fun, even though they can add to the experience as I'm sure you've noticed.

In addition to that fact, there is a large population of gamers who have massive backlogs containing dozens if not more than a hundred great games we want to play, but we'll never have enough time in our life to complete them all. We make enough money to buy whatever games we want, but there will never be enough time to play through all of them. This is partially due to work, school, dating, family, and life in general being a higher priority than the games, even though we are passionate about them. It's also a result of our gaming economy where video games have become so popular that there are more good games being created now then there are hours in a persons life to play all of them. This is the state of the world that developed over time as we became adults and gaming became more mainstream. Because of those things, this demographic of gamers often appreciate a simple game that can be played through once in a few sittings such as Undertale. Even though I love games like Bloodborne, The Witcher 3, and Fallout 4, it's a breath of fresh air to play something as unique and ambiguously straight to the point as Undertale.

Some of us remember a time where we were considered nerds or outcasts for being passionate about video games. Fortunately for the newer generations of gamers, we held on to our love of video games, passed them down to our younger siblings, children, and relatives, and the negative perception of gaming has changed over time.

I've put in dozens, if not over a hundred hours into the first 2 triple A games that I mentioned and they were great experiences. That doesn't mean that those types of gameplay are the only experiences I can enjoy. It's true that AAA games require a lot more effort, development time, and money put into them, but that isn't going to guarantee the experience will be more enjoyable for every gamer. That's one of the big reasons why professional review scores are subjective and points are usually not added or subtracted for effort, game length of one play-through, development time, or budget. Music, gameplay, and story can be the biggest factors in creating an enjoyable experience for some of us, and Undertale exceeds in all three categories. This is a game that actually leaves a lasting impression on most of the people who play through it, and I can attest to that.

Another thing it does right, is that it does not waste the players time with "filler" content. The game only presents the best of its ideas and does not encourage the player to dick around with content designed to extend the experience through boring generic scenarios. Think of your entire experience with a game like Fallout 4, Skyrim, or Metal Gear Solid V. How often did you feel like, "this is repetitive / boring, but it will be worth it when I get to the really good content."? I feel that filler content is a waste of my personal gaming time, and it's only valuable to players who currently have a limited budget and can only play a few games per year. I used to be in that situation, and trust me, it gets better as you start to appreciate different things in games when you can afford to play any game you want.

Based on the content of that users comments I mentioned, I can tell that person is a young gamer, probably in the late teens at most. I don't mean that as an insult in any way, and we've all been gamers of that age at one time. I remember being baffled when short and simple games were given high scores when I was younger as well, so I think I understand where some young gamers are coming from in this regard. Undertale is the type of game you might enjoy when you're a bit older. Maybe in 10-20 years, after you've had kids, nieces and nephews, or found an appreciation for the value in the moral behind a story that pleasantly defies you're expectations at every corner. As deceptively basic as the game may look on the outside, it is very capable of drawing players in and making them feel things that they haven't felt since they were little kids. That can only happen to people who give it an honest chance and let go of whatever preconceived notions they previously had. At the same time, it won't have that effect on everyone.

It's unfortunate if you feel like people ganged up on you in response to your original comment that called Undertale a "piece of shit." I'm guessing that you already know that's how it usually goes when you demonstrate a strong opinionated stance through a comment in most forums. Just in case you didn't already know that, welcome to the internet.

Regardless of your age, it's perfectly fine if you prefer high budget triple A games and dislike simple, retro, or short games like Undertale. Just don't expect everyone else to agree with you because we all have different preferences, experiences, and life situations that influence the way we enjoy games. Game journalists and reviewers are all entitled to their own opinion and that won't always agree with your preferences. This is one of those things you'll have to get used to if you continue to spend time on video game websites and read the reviews. Just remember, a review is a single persons opinion, not much more. If you want a review to be more than that, you can simply go to metacritic.com , read a variety of reviews, and make your own judgement through collective opinions. Hopefully you don't need to be reminded repeatedly that each individual review is only a single persons opinion.

If you want to start off on the right foot in the gamer community, start by making the effort to understand the difference between complaining and constructive criticism. The forums on this site would be the perfect starting point to observe and demonstrate that since both types of comments are pretty common. Google is a good place to look for answers and advice for subjects like that.

There are some games that change peoples lives or at least influence them in some small way and become unforgettable. There is something about Undertale that makes it stand out among other games that may appear to be so much greater on the surface. Most reviewers and users have hinted at the underlying reason for this but to give it away would lessen your experience compared to taking the journey on your own. Will you ignore these strong recommendations in your search for knowledge and chalk it up to yourself as the only opinion that matters? Or will you dig deeper and concede that understanding is the greatest power we are capable of utilizing?

You can find all the spoilers you want on YouTube, but if you are intrigued at all by the hype surrounding this game, I suggest you spend the 10 dollars and buy it on Steam. If this all sounds like BS to you, then by all means, skim through some YouTube videos and try to understand what the emotional attachment to this game is all about. It wouldn't be nearly as meaningful or have the same emotional impact as getting engrossed in the game and experiencing it first hand, but as I alluded to earlier, this type of game is not for everyone.

It's been said many times in the past and it bears repeating, "never judge a book by it's cover."

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drumjod

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#4 drumjod
Member since 2005 • 855 Posts

Is there still a comment limit on this site? I'm now getting an "invalid token error" when trying to reply to a comment that was asking me a question. I've posted around a dozen comments total in the last few days, which is more than usual, but not excessive at all in my opinion.

This new comment system has been extremely disappointing. The previous system worked great, the upvotes worked properly, you were actually directed to the comment when clicking the link in an email or the notification on Gamespot, and we weren't restricted to a limited number of comments. Why did Gamespot change commenting systems in the first place?

If users are actually this limited in the number if comments we can make, it's likely that the community will fall apart as people go somewhere else to have less restricted discussions.

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#6  Edited By drumjod
Member since 2005 • 855 Posts

@Thanatos2k: I haven't noticed any of these problems and I go back to look at previous comments (based on what's been sent to my email) fairly often. I'm not saying you're wrong in any way because you do have a valid point, just that very few users might experience this, so it's probably a low priority for the Gamespot forum moderators.

At the same time, your 3 suggestions are right on point and I think the original response from the moderator, @edgework, could have been better by at least saying, "we are trying to resolve these issues", instead of, "Sorry, there's little we can do about this." and "We have no control over that."

I've noticed that my Galaxy Note 3 phone shows nothing from the comment section, but using Chrome on my PC has been very consistent for Gamespot discussion forums.

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#7 drumjod
Member since 2005 • 855 Posts

Yes, I think that situation should warrant a refund. If a company is going to sell you something that only works ocasionally, then you have every right to get your money back.

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#8 drumjod
Member since 2005 • 855 Posts

Middle Earth,

The Xbox 360 is much less durable than you imply. Just because yours hasn't failed yet does not guarantee that it is a dependable system. If you do some research online you will notice that, statisticly, the majority of xbox 360 systems malfunction. I do not suggest that you leave it on for extended periods of time or any other measure that would promote it's incompetence. Just keep playing it as you normally do, and it will most likely fail at some point. Cheers to Microsoft : " that they will from now on deliver ADEQUATE products that do not disappoint the users or make Microsoft look incompetent!"

I'm rooting for you microsoft - despite the agony and frustration you have put me through!

-Jon