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#1 Posted by dcps210go (313 posts) -

Breakdown Specs

1.DS +4 mb +67 mhz & 33mhz 120,000 pps(both 32-bit Arms working at ?32-16-bits?)

2.PsOne R3000A 32bit bus -2mb -33mhz 360 pps 1mb gpu 360,000 pps

3.Dreamcast 128bit bus(+100mhz PowerVR NEC graphics gpu & 200mhz 32bit SH-4 cpu) 26mb(+8 video 16 system 2 sound 64bit sdram running at 800 100mhz) +360 MIPs 1.4 Gigaflops PFR(pixel fill rate 100 m +rgb16.78m) windows ce and sega os 7 million pps

4.PSP 128bit bus(-2 R4000 32bit cpu+1 gpu single chip) 32mb interface -2ram 4 32bit dram total at 166mhz 1-333 mhz@1.2 volts(max 222mhz before firmware) 2.6 Gigaflops -166mhz Pixel Bus ?24bit rgb texture compression? -low res;P(PFR - +664m rgb 16.77) linux firmware os est 10 million texturized pps

-256bit bus at 166 all due to amount of voltage can deter performance with power given to the screen. I have my theories...it is a portable afterall.

*Definitions: Psp, DS, Psone and DC are all homebrew, emulation, hacking systems but DC is proven best at all of it with GLquake and easily pirating (downgraded 2xreads) copied cdr imgs. Arm is used for sound in Dreamcast and DS graphics, the MIP@1.4 pipelines is possibly faster than an amd athlon processor. Pcs, Xbox 360/Ps3 uses MIPs (Millions instructions per second). In addition:it has a parallel vector point unit @32-bits with a 64-bit instruction set while psp only has one vector point unit and one floating point @32bits. Hence 128 bit graphics. Keynote:The r4000 of the PSP is an n64 psone processor (in the same family as) with only 100 MIPS used aka 'R4200' instead of the 360 MIPS of the dreamcast. Both chips r by NEC as is the PowerVR, a arcade board manufacturer (collaborated with Sega's Naomi or more commonly known as Sega Model3) making cpus...to copy its design and make it cheaper. Evident in the transition between Psone and its System11 arcade board. NEC basically dumbs down company CPUs on consoles except for its PowerVR and Sega's SH4 Arcade equivalents. So why exactly did the more powerful sega SH4 arcade board become defunct?! Possibly manufacturing costs from Sega because Sega's Genesis put it on the map. Saturn selling well over 17.5 million died in 2000 and this alone would not kill the console so quickly. Who knows really, Dreamcast's release had come out one year earlier than expected to counter Sony's Ps2.

key :)++ means excels in -- :(is behind

PSOne vs DS First, in the following comparisons spec data will be drawn. The point made now will be DS. DS is better than Psone, its processor is at 67 mhz + a sub processor at 33mhz (as compared to n64's 99 and 67 cpu gpu ratio). Psone is only at 33. DS is glitch free and most games on the DS don't mimic Japanime RPG effects except for a few. First the best rated games on DS are Nintendogs, Final Fantasy and Metroid have full polygonal structures while Psone has games like Final Fantasy 7 that do not. This is mostly due to artistic development. DS is like N64 where it draws around 120 instead of 360 pps this is countered with its smooth games@4mb of ram instead of 3. Thus making it a faster 2d app and at the same time making it more powerful in 3d. DS also dominates in 3d shooters. Psone is horrible at doom-like games plagued with slowdown, glitches and a plethora of problems on non-PC and PC ports. Psone has the advantages of a big screen but the low resolution of the DS displayed on a tv can be the same and the advantages of color/explosion effects in the psone is a preference over capability via emu. The CDRom and RGB colors are naturally better on PSone making this a close call. I personally give it to DS because of the capability to render graphics(not movies) and emulators fix most of the color depth issues. Only thing that saves Psone is the 3d fighting games where all the polys are condensed in one small area and effects. DS has what is called texture mapping or in simple terms a way to make big environments nice. Mario and Spyro are some keen examples. Spyro has no large areas and pop-up! DS games never have enough polys, they excel in never having problems with fps and glitches. DS lacks vram which is why its worst actually though.

Screens

Ridge Racer 4Need for Speed

Psone/DS

Gran turismof355

PSP/Dreamcast

Metal Gear SolidAce Combat x

PSP

headhunterAerowings 2

Dreamcast

  • Above are some actual pixel-size racing/sim game samples to show which excels in the system's primary function hence speed or power. DS excels in speed, Dreamcast in power. Although Psp and Psone has the disadvantage of being slower as well. ((Warning)) Comparisons still vary in output rendering, age, resolution and emulation of captures.

Note:The photos alone are a nail in the coffin in terms of capability and power of the Dreamcast, and DS compared to the psone and psp. Perfect examples on the Sega and Nintendo consoles are lacking in Sonys. DS wins hands down. Even proving my theories wrong where color and space dominate. Notice in the last row psp's late 333mhz game, mgs, show nice models with poly warping, yet still lack shadow, AA, large navigatable environment, and smooth textures. Only Dreamcast has readable sigma in its graphics as well. Psp gives the illusion of good effects without the latter done well.

Dreamcast vs PSP Dreamcast can achieve more graphical functions and its gdroms hold as much such is the case with le mans, sega gt, f355, speed devils and daytona vs Burnout etc. PSP has blur but dreamcast already implemented its own blur effects before that. Everyone knows anti-aliasing and textures is what sony cant do. Psp just looks good because its a market brand with big budgets inturn making movies into games, so what, dreamcast has already been there and done that with res evil and more. Sony is good at one thing; realistic environments (ex/tekken collision grass poly effects) but in the case of dreamcast shenmue, sonic environments destroys it (depends really if you like realtime, lighting, etc). Both being able to do reflections, glare, and blur effectively. If you want to compare Japanese anime 'hit' effects to a PSP just look at Grandia II, virtual on, soa and so on.

Differences between Sony hardware and Sega's:Sony's System 11 board can do more polygons but it cant create lighting and bumpmapping the way Sega's board can. Sony's board can't make everything because it's chips are based on Vector graphics (based on the Riva Tnt 2 before 3dfx was even out). Thats why you see that Bump-mapping is superior on the Dreamcast and you can even notice this on Gamecube (8 layers) and Xbox (4 layers). Because its graphics chip is able to layer the cpus Fat pipeline's polygons fluidly with two layers @ a standard 30 fps - 60 fps (at least 30 fps standard - sonic adventure, lemans, Soa or the 60 fps - Grandia II) depending on the amount of data on screen. Sony does do the lighting sparks blurs environments and transparencies well though given ram and poly data advantages. Sony's idea of a high processor speed with lots of ram is good for multi-apps but its a customized computer nothing more. These things dont matter in this generation because the PCs and Consoles are being designed and built like game machines with fast equalized pipelines. Plus Dreamcast is capable of trilinear filtering, z-buffering, anti-aliasing, per-pixel translucency which is why you can see lighting around the edges of shaded objects. Its better to have 8mb of video-ram instead of 2. Particle effects are done via the GPU on Psone and PSP using polys. Contrary to popular belief, Sony has ONLY ONE processor (the other cpu is for media) for that to make those dazzling graphics yet they dont have what makes graphics nice, an overlapping texturing bump-mapping rendering engine. Dreamcast balances this completely with perfect needs for the developer. Just enough polys for no popups + high res bumpmapping! Lighting effects, flat textures with a big budget lots of space and polys with peripherals wont save you! Just make your library bigger.

The specs of Ps2 vs DC is more fair. Both systems have 800 mb/s ram (dc having an advantage as 64bit SDram to psp/ps2's 32-bit Dram). Dram is slower@that time and implemented as a bandwagon n64 psone cheap 'videogame' console ram (just like the NEC cpus). Another interesting fact is Dreamcast has more videoram and has a close 100mhz to 150mhz and 360 mips range factor (amd athlons alone being 1.2 gflops soyos are extremely fast with wide pipelines DC being 1.4 alone is a HUGE proven accomplishment). Both are = in sound and cpus have 64bit instructions. SDram is also custom for PCs with the smaller amount of Sdram actually being better! well making the pc run faster and more stable. Thats about all though. The superior Ps2 has 6.4glops@450 MIPS giving it the edge.

Comparison conclusion: PSP and Psone have a bigger variety of games and PSone is a console-based system but in no way is it technically better than DC in capability.

History

Psp is a well designed console which ran all the way back in the early 1990s from Sony's System 11 board. Sony's first design for ps2 is based on one ps2 customized chip design called the 'emotion engine' it originated from the psone single board chipset to the two equivalent cpu chips you see in the psp where Sony intended on using one cpu processor. The GPU & CPUs processors decrease in performance and power (30 fps) when at a low battery saving frequency. This 'Super Computer' from the future design was mainly marketed as a ploy. PSP like the Ps2 and Psone before it works best with secondary GPU chips.

Debunking this Thread

To Quote Ps2_rocks "Dreamcast: 200MHz clock rate 16 MB main RAM 8 MB video RAM 800+MBytes/second bus bandwidth 1.4 GFLops 3 million polygons/second peak rendering rate PSP: 333MHz Main Memory: 32MB Embedded DRAM:4MB Bus Bandwidth is 2.6GB per second 2.6GFlops 33M polygon per second (T&L) So PSP>Dreamcast technically."

Answer: You are wrong, ive researched that its processor runs at 100 MIPS, the specs are for you at the top of this post. Consoles are more powerful than portables in terms of power and function. Psp is a Powerful portable. DS as well but it cant do everything consoles can do, making these factors...and age a competitive choice. Researched info and tests so yes Dreamcast is faster.

So we can assume:

1.Gaming PC (preference on everything)

2.Ps3/Xbox360 (memory/texture) Nvidia & Ati preference HDtv

3.Wii (Nvidia textures, faster) HDtv

4.Xbox (4x Nvidia textures ram) RGB Component

5.Gamecube (8x Ati textures) RGB Component

6.Ps2 (lighting, Polys, Memory, TNT2 ATI textures) S-Video

7.Dreamcast (lighting, AM2 ARM NEC Naomi arcade based textures, 2x AA bumpmapping) Component/VGA/HDtv

9.N64 (AA, 3dfx Blurred textures 3D first 62mhz GPU/cartridge, no slowdown) S-Video

11.PS1 (Lighting, Polys, 3D, colors, effects) Composite

12.Saturn (2D, Glitch-free 3D, ram) Composite

Handheld consoles: A major factor or lack of capabilities due to hardware limitations

1.PsP (lighting, polys, ram) Portable/VGA/Emu/RGB (preference on everything)
2.NDS (Textures, 2d-3d Pixels, Fun apps, no slowdown) Portable/VGA/Emu/RGB (preference on everything)

Finally, some adventure games to compare:
*Spryo, Super Mario Advanced, Sonic Adventure, God of War

Special Note: Spyro has good effects yet it loses to super mario because of environments. Gow loses to sonic adventure because of size of environments. Gow, the best graphical game on psp, has visible aa problems flat textures on the buildings as well as smaller characters (it is artfully crafted but everything is fixed, not moving 2d ala tekken+real time). Sword of Beserk has the same features. The polys are less, but its faster with better textures. As for realtime shenmue 1&2 is almost cgi quality in vga so theres no way dreamcast cant make this game even if its not built for it.

Technically and visually speaking of course and with screen resolution captures only accepted and judging upon the amount of capabilities the graphics can achieve and why next to the names. Like when Psone became a suitable candidate against the more powerful Sega Saturn (Psone's System 11 board having a close technical edge against Saturn's in rendering effects and videoram both equally matched in power at least in America). Saturn being just a smarter, more stable system, more so than genesis was and the playstation brand now is. I did not include storage but did include best devices to display the consoles on because movies arent what make a console. The new visual unique achievements (leading technological Graphics manufacturer at that time) of which the console excelled in are included of course.

Sony's Advantages

Overall preferences on this board compare games like GOW to Shenmue, two games using 2 different engines without pointing the lack of AA, res and flat textures for you. Besides, the difference of hardware, function and portability, make the psp hard to compare ds. Such is examples are: Porsche Challenge in car passengers with polys or psone lighting explosion effects in say..Loaded gives the slower psone a quality ds does not have in 3d games. The opposite goes for the faster Dreamcast against PSP with its better at lighting textures bumpmapping and poly functions. Both Psp and Psone show more similarities in poly warping and textures than ps2. Dreamcast has graphics in racing games that psp lacks to do best in missing car models, reflections, physics and textures. Although irrelevant when it comes to gameplay, Sony's brand is known for great cutscenes in cgi or realtime (AI controlled using all of the cpus capability) making space for discs like dvd/blue ray and big budget prevalent. Sony has an advantage in colors and vectors(polys) for details of characters and environments but the other systems have an advantage in speed and textures in multi-functional environments. If you notice the portables dont have multifunctions. Thats because they cant create multiple vector based environment with its tiny pipelines and the cpus are 'simple.'

So why does Sony keep their ram so low? The Sony brand saves costs, except maybe that the fact is, every console needs a faster GPU with more ram. Like in computers the video card is what makes the graphics. It is essential. Instead its Power against Graphics. Psone started with 1meg more, faster ram, against Saturn. So why so little vgram now? Noone knows, but it could be because of the unique graphics and untapped knowledge the Japanese are capable of doing. Eg the realism of GranTurismo or Metalgear simply cant be mimiced and takes lots of cpu power instead vying for the latter. In future consoles this will be problematic, which already is evident in third party ps3 games being hard to program and not being able to function at a full fluid frame rate (fps jumps in gameplay with overhauled graphics) like 360 can (save the idea of 'hard' development problems for ps3 and pther consoles like saturn). Saving function and knowing how to use it puts their exclusive games years ahead of the competition against the best PCs with the most realistic graphics.

Conclusion

In my closing argument, the specs for Dreamcast are 7 million pps, and psp has 2 mb videoram 100 mips@2.6 while dreamcast is 360@1.4. This creates a much smoother and better experience for fighting and racing games. Dreamcast has little if no side scroller adventure games that you see in PSP, God of War being one example. DC is to adventure 3d sidescrollers like the 99 mhz N64 is to 3d/2d fighting&racing games, Ps1 to n64 games/PC ports, Psp/ps2 to ports/arcade games, Gamecube-to-rpgs and DS to 3d/fighting games in that it has been done sucessfully but are very rare (with the exception of Sword of Beserk). All consoles excel in their own field. So basically Psp is not a portable ps2, ps2 cannot power missiles and Dreamcast IS 4 times faster than a Pentium II (or at least equivalent to an AMD athlon!). PSP, ps2 and psone have its advantages, not in shear strength of the systems but in power and speed. Only Dreamcast are stronger systems making PSP an overpowered Psone if anything (Ds lacks in power). It looks like Sega's Dreamcast may just be way too ahead of its time afterall having owned and researched both systems my tests and experiences came to be conclusive.