[QUOTE="Pirate700"]I don't see this lasting long. :lol:7guns

People don't respect their LCD anymore!:(

LCD? liquid crystal display?

oooohhh I see what you did there. :)

you're a good candidate for religon. here is a video to wet your apetite: http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=muslim%20christian%20debates&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv#

if you don't like it then you can always google any muslim vs christian videos on the internet.

I wish all websites are this welcoming. :)

I am going to get breakfast.

The_Ish

The_Ish

Are you aware of the concept of Bid'a in Islam? If not then read this: http://www.albalagh.net/general/bidah.shtml

"Bid'ah means adding or changing articles of faith or religious practices. It can take many forms. One may change the occasion of a prescribed act, thereby extending it to occasions for which it was not meant. One may add restrictions on a desired act that the Shariah had not imposed. One may change the styyl or form of such an act. One may start doing something collectively that was to be performed individually. Or one may change the Shariah status of an act from permissible to mandatory. Of course, one may also add a ritual where none existed. These are all forms of bid'ah. They are all forbidden."

reading the Quran in another language other than Arabic during prayer falls under the concept of Bid'a (inovation in Islam).

[QUOTE="crude_darkness"]

Let me put it in simple terms:

1. The Quran was sent in Arabic. As I showed you in the top quote God has sent it down in Arabic.

The_Ish

Coincidence perhaps? You're own verse says that the only reason it's in Arabic is because it makes sense since it's being presented through an Arab man, and what other language should he present it, other than the one he knows best?

2. Translation of the Quran is not the true Quran.

crude_darkness

And why not? Because other languages can't percieve every word or phrase in Arabic? Simply untrue - especially when you compare Arabic with languages with more words with more meanings than it.You cannot make that statement unless it is clearly supported by a verse.

3. Muslims are required to recite the Quran during prayer.

4. thus this leads us to conclude that you have to recite the verses that where sent by God and not the verses that where translated by man.

crude_darkness

Again, you're just saying something without proof. There are no verses saying that one must pray in Arabic.

1. what, you want more?

here you asked for it

"Yusuf [12:2] We have sent it down as an arabic Qur'an in order that ye may learn wisdom.
Ar-Rad [13:37] Thus have We revealed it to be a judgment of authority in arabic. Wert thou to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither protector nor defender against Allah.
An-Nahl [16:103] We know indeed that they say "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is arabic pure and clear.
Taha [20:113] Thus have we sent this down― arabic Qur'an and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
Ash-Shuara [26:195] In the perspicuous arabic tongue.
Az-Zumar [39:28] (It is) a Qur'an in arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
Fussilat [41:3] A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail― a Qur'an in arabic, for people who understand―
Fussilat [41:44] Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in a language) other than arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a guide and a healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes); they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"
Ash-Shura [42:7] Thus have We sent by inspiration to thee an arabic Qur'an: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities and all around her― and warn (them) of the Day of Assembly, of which there is no doubt: (when) some will be in the Garden, and some in the Blazing Fire.
Az-Zukhruf [43:3] We have made it a Qur'an in arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
Al-Ahqaf [46:12] And before this, was the Book of Moses as a Guide and a Mercy; and this Book confirms (it) in the arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right."

2. Different languages have different meaning for each word. For example the word "pair" is used for example to talk about two identical things or about a husband and wife. Sometimes you have the intention of using the word so that it means two things at the same time, which would be hard to translate without using multiple words.

3. One must use the Quran during prayer, and as we established before, a translation of the Quran is not the true Quran. So logicaly a translation shouldn't be used during prayer.

Then Arabic should never be used in business contracts, programming, literature... or anything except for the Quran, if there cannot be some kind of direct translation. All Arabic programs are actually written in English. Arabic writers don't really know what they are writing, and Arabic contracts are illegal.

See what the problem is? You are claiming that Arabic has words with meanings that only God understands. Nothing in the Quran says anything like that, and by the very nature of language itself, everything can be percieved and translated in another language. The English and Chinese languages have more words with more meanings than Arabic has. Any language can be translated - and if you can't, then you are being lazy.

The_Ish

contracts are a completly different story. If you translate a contract, you have to have the original contract creator's approval for it. In the Quran's case you don't have that luxery of approving a different translation from God.

[QUOTE="crude_darkness"]

here is a verse from the Quran about the arabic language:

Fussilat [41:44] Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in a language) other than arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a guide and a healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes); they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"

The_Ish

So... where is the part where it says that one must pray in Arabic from there on? I can't help but think this is quote mining without context, either. :|

In fact, the verse says nothing about anything having to be in Arabic, save for the fact that it would be ridiculous for an Arab man to reveal the word of God in a language that he does not know as well as his own.

Let me put it in simple terms:

1. The Quran was sent in Arabic. As I showed you in the top quote God has sent it down in Arabic.

2. Translation of the Quran is not the true Quran.

3. Muslims are required to recite the Quran during prayer.

4. thus this leads us to conclude that you have to recite the verses that where sent by God and not the verses that where translated by man.

here is a verse from the Quran about the arabic language:

Fussilat [41:44] Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in a language) other than arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a guide and a healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes); they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"