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#1 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts
@Pedro said:

There are many factors that are considered when cooling any device. However, it is not as simple as stating space = cooling. That is inaccurate. Cooling is all about the movement of heat out of a specific area. You can have a large case but if your mechanism for cooling is insufficient, your system is going to overheat regardless of the available space. I guess I could plug the "it is just physics" line. What is important is the mechanisms that are used for cooling. If we were to use your claims then laptops would not last greater than 3 years. But we both know that is not true because the cooling systems are design for the form factor. The efficiency of the cooling systems dictates how hot a system would run. If there are size constraints then cooling system would need to adjust for these constraints. As someone who prefers smaller systems and a person who builds their own small form factor systems, I am very aware of the constraints of smaller cases and the cooling systems that are needed for these constraints.

Yeah it really is that simple.

Movement of heat out of a specific area still has higher ambient temperatures to deal with because of the simple physics of more energy within a smaller confined space means more heat. You cannot get around that. You're arguing against physics there and that's just not smart.

The mechanisms don't really matter unless it involves introducing lower temperatures into the mix. I don't even mean liquid cooling I mean something more like liquid nitrogen. Otherwise the simple formula of the same amount of heat being generated and funneled through a smaller space = less efficient. You cannot get around this no matter how hard you try and anybody designing electronics knows that.

When there are size constraints the cooling cannot physically be increased in sized. That's nearly impossible unless you want to talk about different metals which have different properties when it comes to heat diffusion, which I'll touch upon later. Radiators operate on a very simple principle of energy transfer. The smaller the radiator, the less amount of energy transferred. You can try to blow more air on the radiator to dissipate that heat into air, but air is a terrible conductor for heat and smaller fans universally move less air. So now you're running smaller fans at higher RPMs to move less air and you now have a hotter and louder console. Exactly what everybody wants.

So you bring up laptops and that's hilarious and undermines your point. A laptop runs at lower voltages and thus lower clocks speeds than desktops. This is done simply because their cooling solutions are compact and cannot move nearly as much heat. Thus a 4070 in a laptop is significantly less powerful than its desktop counterpart. Kind of directly contradicts what you're trying to say.

I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty upset if I bought a $299 Slim PS5 and found was about 75% as powerful as the fat PS5s. I'm being generous with that 75%. If you think Sony or Microsoft is going to commission AMD to build a whole new chip that has the same architecture of their last one but smaller in size just for a slimmer console, then you also probably believe the moon is made of cheese. That's never happened and simply never will.

Even more so, you want to talk about cooling solutions designed around smaller cooling solutions for smaller systems and there is a bit of a caveat I haven't brought up. Various metals can conduct heat better than others. However, the notion of a slim PS5 that's cheaper than the fatter one before it kind of insinuates that it'd also be a lower price. You're now on the line for outfitting a smaller console with smaller parts (historically more expensive) with a more expensive cooling solution, yet gonna release the thing at $100 lower than the digital fat PS5?

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. Everybody who builds PCs knows it too. You build an ITX or Micro ATX PC you'll just expect not only higher priced components, but higher ambient temperatures. You're generally not slotting in full sized GPUs like a 4070 because the platform isn't built to sustain that. Again, common knowledge. I've spent endless hours on various PC forums throughout the years trying to optimize the hell out of CPU temps by under volting systems. That can only work so well. Physics ultimately drives it all.

Console components have already been heavily optimized for their smaller form factor. Historically, which you've also avoided in your response, this has led to short lifespan consoles. Slim PS2, PS3, and even slim PS4s simple run hotter and last less time.

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#2  Edited By Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts
@Pedro said:
@Wasdie said:

I can imagine a Slim PS5 lasting 2-3 years before it burns itself out. Slim PS2, slim PS3, and even the smaller PS4, none have longevity.

Space = cooling. Cooling is incredibly important. Your ITX PC will die a lot faster than a full sized tower, ATX mobo, PC with proper cooling. It's just physics.

Seems more like you are talking about poor cooling. Space does not equal cooling, the removal of heat equal cooling.

Yeah and smaller space means less room for radiators and fans. We've seen it time and time again. Slim consoles burn out because, ultimately, the same amount of power is being pushed through smaller cooling with less airflow. Every damn time.

There's not a long lasting slim version of a console. They also are notorious for cutting corners to get that MSRP down.

And really think of it too. A smaller tunnel with hot air flowing through it will always have a higher ambient temp than a larger one. It's literally basic physics. To push more air through a smaller tunnel you need higher RPMs which means a louder console, but even then, there's less room for saturation, and there will always be higher ambient temps.

Any experienced PC builder can tell you that more room = lower temps. Always and forever.

I look at the PS5's design and see a form factor built specifically around temp. Same with the Series X. They are wind tunnels with enough space for the heat to dissipate and be blown out with ample cooling.

Shink the design and you're going to have higher temps. Simple fact.

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#3 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

I need that DCS F4 Phantom.

I crave it.

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#4 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

I can imagine a Slim PS5 lasting 2-3 years before it burns itself out. Slim PS2, slim PS3, and even the smaller PS4, none have longevity.

Space = cooling. Cooling is incredibly important. Your ITX PC will die a lot faster than a full sized tower, ATX mobo, PC with proper cooling. It's just physics.

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#5 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

@davillain: I like the looks, but you should really consider getting some sort of mount for that GPU. It's sagging bad. My 4090 came with one thankfully.

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#6 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

I don't know how this place operates anymore.

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#8  Edited By Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

@last_lap: Forgive me if I don't remember what counts as trolling here anymore, but while you may stick with consoles, here's my PS5.

And my PS2 I guess.

The PS5 is hooked up to an LGB8 65" OLED with a 5.1 surround sound system. Albeit, a bit of an older one.

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#9 Wasdie  Moderator
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@last_lap: That's the whole PC. There's no SATA drives so the 4x m.2 harddrives are underneath the titanic GPU and that's about it. Everything it needs is right there. Open and free for the massive amount of air that's blowing over it.

The real bummer was the 4x8pin power cables from the PSU that were required for the 4090. You can see it in the picture above the GPU and being connected to it. That's the biggest mess. Otherwise this case allowed for amazing cable management and the lack of SATA drives cleaned it up.

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#10 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

Alright it's time for me to come clean.

I built a new PC and, while I don't have the best picture, here it is.

And here's the spec:

  • AMD Ryzen 7 7800x3D
  • MSI GeForce RTX 4090 24GB DDR6X
  • 64GB G.Skill 6000 DDR5 RAM
  • 6TB of NVMe m.2 storage with a 1TB Samsung 990, 2x2TB Samsung 980, and 1TB Samsung 980

Packed in a Fractal Design Define 7XL case with quite a bit of cooling

So yeah. This basically makes me better than all of you.