Xbox Treyarch vs Infinity Ward

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#1 Posted by cpt_stochastic (25 posts) -
I feel I'm going crazy. I played WaW to death but I never liked it much because there seemed to be this phenomenon where you round a corner and run into an enemy and *every time* I'd get outgunned. When watching the replay I'd see myself take a good 1/2 second to start firing which is a huge delay in this type of game. I'd kind of got used to being mediocre when MW2 came out and suddenly I was awesome! I enjoyed it so much I prestiged 6 times! I never saw the delay or felt cheated in a one on one. if I died I understood why. - Cut to Black Ops and it's back again. Basically if the enemy sees me at the same time or even a little after I'm going to lose the shootout. It's incredibly frustrating and I'm wondering if it's a Treyarch thing because I don't get it with the IW versions of the game. I don't experience abnormal amounts of lag or lost connections. I just want to know if anyone else experiences this.
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#2 Posted by Obliabo (275 posts) -

I've experienced these problems before, I sort of feel MW2 is a lot smoother... Maybe things will get better in Black Ops with patches etc., but it's possible it's a Treyarch thing.

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#3 Posted by willpd123 (970 posts) -

I feel I'm going crazy. I played WaW to death but I never liked it much because there seemed to be this phenomenon where you round a corner and run into an enemy and *every time* I'd get outgunned. When watching the replay I'd see myself take a good 1/2 second to start firing which is a huge delay in this type of game. I'd kind of got used to being mediocre when MW2 came out and suddenly I was awesome! I enjoyed it so much I prestiged 6 times! I never saw the delay or felt cheated in a one on one. if I died I understood why. - Cut to Black Ops and it's back again. Basically if the enemy sees me at the same time or even a little after I'm going to lose the shootout. It's incredibly frustrating and I'm wondering if it's a Treyarch thing because I don't get it with the IW versions of the game. I don't experience abnormal amounts of lag or lost connections. I just want to know if anyone else experiences this.cpt_stochastic
Yeh i agree! I think that infinity wards versions are more smooth and refined, in terms of controlling the character. I also see this problem you mention with the tryarch games when you don't even fire a bullet when you watch the killcam back. I also think infinity wards games are polished better graphically in comparison to tryarchs. Shame that a lot of infinity wards dev team have left.

EDIT: I also find enemies take more bullets to go down in blops compared to mw2, which i do not like. Although this is probably intentional and due to the lack of inclusion of stopping power.

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#4 Posted by Dredg11 (1266 posts) -

This is absolutely a Treyarch thing, and is something the hardcore COD fans have noticed for a long time. And by hardcore, I don't mind blind followers. I mean the guys who did the beta tests (myself for COD 4 and WaW) and can give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to the series. Some gamers are so blinded by the excitement of playing or whatever that they can't really analyze a game and find real flaws.

But if you pay close attention to Treyarch COD titles vs IW ones, you'll notice that the gun feel and framerates (or how "smooth" the game is) are much worse in Treyarch titles. The movement of your crosshairs feel a little bulkier, almost like it's at a lower dpi (for you PC gamers who understand that) that IW titles...The guns have a lot more recoil, and feel a lot more random in general. This is Treyarch vs IW coding at work. They use the same engine to run the game, but a lot of the coding is independent.

Another thing that seems to be faulting Treyarch's CODs is optimizing. This is another department where IW and Treyarch would do things completely differently. I think the guys at IW (which doesn't really exist anymore, BTW) knew had to optimize games better. In other words...they did the little things better.

Like many people have said, the killcams in WaW and Black Ops prove this. There is such a delay between what you saw happen in real time and what the killcam shows. There is also the hit detection issues, host migration...These are all connection and/or lag issues. I've noticed the hit detection is fine in the campaign (different coding all together, obviously) but in MP, the hit detection issues stem from lag...Not "make your framerate drop" laggy, but laggy enough to cause sync issues between users.

I said this in another Black Ops thread...It's going to be just like the COD 4 - WaW - MW2 progression all over again: People loved COD 4. WaW was released, a while a lot of people liked it, a lot of people didn't because it "didn't feel" as good as COD 4. Then MW2, another IW game was released, and people were back on board with IW, without even really knowing why...it was just the new game to play. But they knew it was better...Now it's the same deal with Black Ops. A lot of people like it because it "fixed the issues with MW2", but the core gameplay - the simple things - aren't nearly as good as they were in MW2.

People need to stop giving Treyarch credit for "fixing IW's mistakes" because it happened by default. It was simply their turn to make a COD game. If IW would have been up to bat, they would have made an even better game than Black Ops. They knew they screwed up and essentially overpowered everything in MW2. So while I think Treyarch did a decent job of balancing perks and killstreaks, I think IW would have done an even better job. They also would have made a game that can do everything else right too.

So just wait for the next COD made by IW. With any hope, they still have enough of the core guys to make another good COD game.

On a side note: I do think it's hilarious how everybody was drinking the Black Ops kool-aid at launch, and now, a few weeks later, a lot of people are already bored.

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#5 Posted by cpt_stochastic (25 posts) -
Thanks for your replies. I want to reiterate that it's not a complaint about gameplay per se. I don't mind if the guns recoil more or less, are over powered, etc. I'm purely disenchanted with the (to me) very obvious disparity between what seems to be happening and what the actual result is. For all I know, the other guys I do kill might be experiencing he same "What the- !" thing but it's not good for anyone. A possible reason might be a bias towards US hosts I guess as I am a Brit living in Australia. In WaW at least there was the option to choose Local and Locale hosts, which I think has disappeared in this version and still, there was no problem with IW games. Unfortunately I left it too late to return the game otherwise I would have done so for a refund. When Cata comes out I won't look back and I definitely won't buy a Treyarch version again.
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#6 Posted by Dredg11 (1266 posts) -

For all I know, the other guys I do kill might be experiencing he same "What the- !"cpt_stochastic

He is experiencing that. Everyone is, really. The people that say it's not like that, just don't know any better lol. They don't notice for whatever reason. I guess they don't know what an actual good game plays like.

It's like when I get spawn killed and say "aww, that's bs..." then I respawn directly behind an opposing player and I, myself, get a "free" kill, as my crosshairs are basically on him when I spawn. That's when I say "aww, that was bs for him..." So it definitely goes both ways in COD. Seems like a lot of the time you're getting screwed, but sometimes you're doing the screwing ;)

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#7 Posted by willpd123 (970 posts) -

This is absolutely a Treyarch thing, and is something the hardcore COD fans have noticed for a long time. And by hardcore, I don't mind blind followers. I mean the guys who did the beta tests (myself for COD 4 and WaW) and can give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to the series. Some gamers are so blinded by the excitement of playing or whatever that they can't really analyze a game and find real flaws.

But if you pay close attention to Treyarch COD titles vs IW ones, you'll notice that the gun feel and framerates (or how "smooth" the game is) are much worse in Treyarch titles. The movement of your crosshairs feel a little bulkier, almost like it's at a lower dpi (for you PC gamers who understand that) that IW titles...The guns have a lot more recoil, and feel a lot more random in general. This is Treyarch vs IW coding at work. They use the same engine to run the game, but a lot of the coding is independent.

Another thing that seems to be faulting Treyarch's CODs is optimizing. This is another department where IW and Treyarch would do things completely differently. I think the guys at IW (which doesn't really exist anymore, BTW) knew had to optimize games better. In other words...they did the little things better.

Like many people have said, the killcams in WaW and Black Ops prove this. There is such a delay between what you saw happen in real time and what the killcam shows. There is also the hit detection issues, host migration...These are all connection and/or lag issues. I've noticed the hit detection is fine in the campaign (different coding all together, obviously) but in MP, the hit detection issues stem from lag...Not "make your framerate drop" laggy, but laggy enough to cause sync issues between users.

I said this in another Black Ops thread...It's going to be just like the COD 4 - WaW - MW2 progression all over again: People loved COD 4. WaW was released, a while a lot of people liked it, a lot of people didn't because it "didn't feel" as good as COD 4. Then MW2, another IW game was released, and people were back on board with IW, without even really knowing why...it was just the new game to play. But they knew it was better...Now it's the same deal with Black Ops. A lot of people like it because it "fixed the issues with MW2", but the core gameplay - the simple things - aren't nearly as good as they were in MW2.

People need to stop giving Treyarch credit for "fixing IW's mistakes" because it happened by default. It was simply their turn to make a COD game. If IW would have been up to bat, they would have made an even better game than Black Ops. They knew they screwed up and essentially overpowered everything in MW2. So while I think Treyarch did a decent job of balancing perks and killstreaks, I think IW would have done an even better job. They also would have made a game that can do everything else right too.

So just wait for the next COD made by IW. With any hope, they still have enough of the core guys to make another good COD game.

On a side note: I do think it's hilarious how everybody was drinking the Black Ops kool-aid at launch, and now, a few weeks later, a lot of people are already bored.

Dredg11
Cheers i found this pretty useful
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#8 Posted by EzekyleAbadon (1390 posts) -

Thanks for your replies. I want to reiterate that it's not a complaint about gameplay per se. I don't mind if the guns recoil more or less, are over powered, etc. I'm purely disenchanted with the (to me) very obvious disparity between what seems to be happening and what the actual result is. For all I know, the other guys I do kill might be experiencing he same "What the- !" thing but it's not good for anyone. A possible reason might be a bias towards US hosts I guess as I am a Brit living in Australia. In WaW at least there was the option to choose Local and Locale hosts, which I think has disappeared in this version and still, there was no problem with IW games. Unfortunately I left it too late to return the game otherwise I would have done so for a refund. When Cata comes out I won't look back and I definitely won't buy a Treyarch version again.cpt_stochastic

You shouldn't buy an Infinity Ward version either, seeing that most of the staff left and formed Respawn Entertainment. So if you liked CoD 1,2,4,6 you shouldn't support the new Infinity Ward team but Respawn Entertainment. As for the IW vs. Treyarch debate I think IW was infinately better, since the only thing Treyarch does is create a game that uses the engine created by IW and somehow manage to get worse results

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#9 Posted by Wakanoid (4468 posts) -

This is absolutely a Treyarch thing, and is something the hardcore COD fans have noticed for a long time. And by hardcore, I don't mind blind followers. I mean the guys who did the beta tests (myself for COD 4 and WaW) and can give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to the series. Some gamers are so blinded by the excitement of playing or whatever that they can't really analyze a game and find real flaws.

But if you pay close attention to Treyarch COD titles vs IW ones, you'll notice that the gun feel and framerates (or how "smooth" the game is) are much worse in Treyarch titles. The movement of your crosshairs feel a little bulkier, almost like it's at a lower dpi (for you PC gamers who understand that) that IW titles...The guns have a lot more recoil, and feel a lot more random in general. This is Treyarch vs IW coding at work. They use the same engine to run the game, but a lot of the coding is independent.

Another thing that seems to be faulting Treyarch's CODs is optimizing. This is another department where IW and Treyarch would do things completely differently. I think the guys at IW (which doesn't really exist anymore, BTW) knew had to optimize games better. In other words...they did the little things better.

Like many people have said, the killcams in WaW and Black Ops prove this. There is such a delay between what you saw happen in real time and what the killcam shows. There is also the hit detection issues, host migration...These are all connection and/or lag issues. I've noticed the hit detection is fine in the campaign (different coding all together, obviously) but in MP, the hit detection issues stem from lag...Not "make your framerate drop" laggy, but laggy enough to cause sync issues between users.

I said this in another Black Ops thread...It's going to be just like the COD 4 - WaW - MW2 progression all over again: People loved COD 4. WaW was released, a while a lot of people liked it, a lot of people didn't because it "didn't feel" as good as COD 4. Then MW2, another IW game was released, and people were back on board with IW, without even really knowing why...it was just the new game to play. But they knew it was better...Now it's the same deal with Black Ops. A lot of people like it because it "fixed the issues with MW2", but the core gameplay - the simple things - aren't nearly as good as they were in MW2.

People need to stop giving Treyarch credit for "fixing IW's mistakes" because it happened by default. It was simply their turn to make a COD game. If IW would have been up to bat, they would have made an even better game than Black Ops. They knew they screwed up and essentially overpowered everything in MW2. So while I think Treyarch did a decent job of balancing perks and killstreaks, I think IW would have done an even better job. They also would have made a game that can do everything else right too.

So just wait for the next COD made by IW. With any hope, they still have enough of the core guys to make another good COD game.

On a side note: I do think it's hilarious how everybody was drinking the Black Ops kool-aid at launch, and now, a few weeks later, a lot of people are already bored.

Dredg11
True, but I think Treyarch is more community friendly. Might just be me though, anyway well said.
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#10 Posted by JayQproductions (1806 posts) -

Infinity Ward is by far the better of the two, you can't use MW2 as reference because if Activision wouldnt of screwed them over, all the problems of MW2 would have been resolved but instead Activision fired the heads and the rest followed because they know first hand how Activision screws their talent. which left nobody at infinity ward to update the game, but even with it's flaws, MW2 was a better looking and smoother playing game. also, Treyarch's work had always been done for them, they just took what IW made and changed it a little, just look at W@W, how can you take COD4 (one of the greatest FPS to date) and screw it up so much that the end result is W@W.

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#11 Posted by Dredg11 (1266 posts) -

True, but I think Treyarch is more community friendly. Might just be me though, anyway well said.Wakanoid

Meh...I couldn't know for 100% because I never really bothered to become part of the Treyarch community. But I've been a member at Infinity Ward for a long time now. I beta tested COD 4 and WaW, and in my experiences, IW handled it a lot better.

You guys would be surprised how nearly perfect even the beta of COD 4 was. And what little complaints and feedback we had as testers, they communicated back and forth with us on certain things via PM or even on the forums...When I did the WaW beta, those "under the map" glitches were in there, and I, as well as a bunch of other testers told them about this repeatedly...needless to say, those glitches made the retail version...

So again, I don't know for 100% sure. But in my experience, IW was great with the community, while the WaW beta with Treyarch was basically nothing but a demo. They didn't listen to feedback...

IW really isn't to blame for the collapse of MW2. That was Activision's fault. How can IW fix the game when the IW staff isn't there anymore, right?

This is why I'm not holding my breath for the next IW COD title, because odds are, it won't be the same IW I know and love. That's now Respawn Studios...

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#12 Posted by MassiveKaos (3876 posts) -

I have talked about this many times. In Waw and black ops a guy would come around the corner and you start firing but he kills you. On his killcam apparently you didnt even fire a shot.

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#13 Posted by darth-pyschosis (9322 posts) -

It just sounds like you're playing against better opponents, not the fault of the game

Also, MW2 weapons had less recoil and you generally took less damage to die in MW2 than BO, although BO takes about 4-6 shots to take someone down.

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#14 Posted by Dredg11 (1266 posts) -

It just sounds like you're playing against better opponents, not the fault of the game

darth-pyschosis

lol...read the thread. There are plenty of legit problems with Black Ops. Go check out the callofduty forums, check youtube for "Black Ops Hit Detection", then come back here and say there's no problems.

It's funny how many people respond to legit criticism with things like "You just suck at the game."...You guys are just easily pleased, and wouldn't recognize quality if it bit you in the face.

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#15 Posted by F0urTwenty (1842 posts) -
I played Black Ops the other day at a buddies house to see how it was. It was pretty good and always nice to see a fresh game and new environments. Later that day i went home and played some MW2 hardcore. MW2 is such a better game and it took me to play Black Ops to realize this. MW2 is staying in my library :D.
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#16 Posted by Dredg11 (1266 posts) -

I played Black Ops the other day at a buddies house to see how it was. It was pretty good and always nice to see a fresh game and new environments. Later that day i went home and played some MW2 hardcore. MW2 is such a better game and it took me to play Black Ops to realize this. MW2 is staying in my library :D. F0urTwenty

Yeah, one isn't really much better than the other...MW2 has a bunch of overpowered stuff, but at least it can get things like hit detection right...

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#17 Posted by cpt_stochastic (25 posts) -

It just sounds like you're playing against better opponents, not the fault of the game

Also, MW2 weapons had less recoil and you generally took less damage to die in MW2 than BO, although BO takes about 4-6 shots to take someone down.

darth-pyschosis
Then you haven't really read or t least understood the points being made. When you start firing a split second after you see someone and then in the replay you're standing around for half a second before firing, and it doesn't happen in IW's games, something's different. In a bad way. Even if it's just the mechanics changing your perception of what's going on it's frustrating and ultimately not as fun.