So apparently there is an class action ciivl suit investigation going on against MicroSoft for their over reaching and way too heavy handed wave of bannings.

This is from the lawfirm doing the investigating...

http://www.abingtonlaw.com/Xbox-Live-class-action.html

Xbox Live Class Action Investigation

An investigation is currently being conducted regarding business practices of Microsoft with respect to its recent cancellation of certain modified Xbox consoles for use with Xbox Live.

As has been reported widely in the media, tens of thousands of Xbox owners have had their modified Xbox consoles banned from Microsoft's online gaming service Xbox Live. Although modification of Xbox consoles is *arguably* against the terms of use for Xbox/Xbox Live, Microsoft "conveniently" timed the Xbox console ban to coincide with the release of the new Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 game and less than two months after the release of the very popular Halo 3: ODST game. This "convenient" timing may have resulted in more Xbox Live subscription revenues for Microsoft than it would have generated had these Xbox console bans taken place at some time before the release of Halo 3: ODST and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. Additionally, sales of both Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (published by Activision) and Halo 3: ODST (published by Microsoft Game Studios) would likely have been greatly diminished had the Xbox console ban occurred prior to the release of these games.

Additional *reported* problems resulting from the bans include, but are not necessarily limited to:
* Disabling/altering Xbox functionality *NOT* associated with Xbox Live or piracy (HDD functionality for example);
* Disabling/altering Xbox functionality *NOT* associated with piracy (Netflix, game add-ons, music, and arcade games for example);
* Obtaining information from Xbox consoles without permission of the owner;
* Other problems/consequences associated with these bans have been reported here and elsewhere.

As an aside, PIRACY IS A LEGITIMATE CONCERN for Microsoft and other content producers. HOWEVER, (to use a poor analogy) Microsoft has chosen to use one of the most indiscriminate "weapons" in its arsenal in an effort to combat piracy -- as a result, use of this "weapon" has resulted in a great deal of collateral damage -- many people were affected who had nothing to do with piracy. Furthermore, Xbox console functions that have nothing to do with piracy were also affected or disabled. Details aside, Microsoft's bans could (and should) have been more measured.

wow... "*arguably* against the terms"? either it is or it isnt. pretty sure that M$ has always stated that they dont allow modded Xboxes on Live

Edit- i agree with the poster after me, poeple shouldnt be modding their consoles, and in doing so, are allowing M$ the opportunity to throw it back at them, and M$'s form of that is the ban! sometimes you get away with breaking hte rules, sometimes you don't. you got caught. stop complaining. plus, do you really think that you are going to beat M$ in court?

I wouldn't scoff too much at this. This firm is the one that forced Sony to abandon installing rootkits on their music CDs to track usage so they have experience taking on the big guys and winning.

I wouldn't scoff too much at this. This firm is the one that forced Sony to abandon installing rootkits on their music CDs to track usage so they have experience taking on the big guys and winning.

GOR_TAK

This is that same firm? hahahaha, I hope they get pummeled by M$.

if you mod your console in ANY way at all then you have voided your warrenty, rightfully so, and have created a new device which xbox live may or may not be able to properly function with. so to protect all of us who dont mod, who dont pirate, and who just buy the console and use it the way they wanted us to, this is a good thing, but for those who mod, thats your choice and you might get banned for it, dont go buying 1 yr gold cards is all i got to say. i personaly am all for people doing whatever they want to something they own, but microsoft owns xbl so they can say no you cant get in for what ever reason they see fit. its like if you go to mcdonalds and start demanding a free burger for buying a kids meal, they can refuse you service if they so choose due to your actions, i have been kicked out of a movie theater for a friends phone going off... why shouldnt i get kicked off xbl for breaking their rules as well? oh by the way, i have a modded xbox, its just a case mod, its a blueish clear with lots of cool blue leds, power to the people!!!

if you mod your console in ANY way at all then you have voided your warrenty, rightfully so, and have created a new device which xbox live may or may not be able to properly function with. so to protect all of us who dont mod, who dont pirate, and who just buy the console and use it the way they wanted us to, this is a good thing, but for those who mod, thats your choice and you might get banned for it, dont go buying 1 yr gold cards is all i got to say. i personaly am all for people doing whatever they want to something they own, but microsoft owns xbl so they can say no you cant get in for what ever reason they see fit. its like if you go to mcdonalds and start demanding a free burger for buying a kids meal, they can refuse you service if they so choose due to your actions, i have been kicked out of a movie theater for a friends phone going off... why shouldnt i get kicked off xbl for breaking their rules as well? oh by the way, i have a modded xbox, its just a case mod, its a blueish clear with lots of cool blue leds, power to the people!!!

Twisted-Ice-God

I agree. Pirates should be banned but shame on Microsoft for disabling features that are inherent to the Xbox and not Xbox LIVE such as installing games to a hard drive. M$ should get sued as they are on one HUGE ego trip. M$ should have no right to disable a feature on my Xbox that I legally own. If a company holds more power than the government they should be shot down a notch.

I say more power than the government because not even my government can touch my Xbox 360. Well, legally a tleast :P

[QUOTE="Twisted-Ice-God"]

if you mod your console in ANY way at all then you have voided your warrenty, rightfully so, and have created a new device which xbox live may or may not be able to properly function with. so to protect all of us who dont mod, who dont pirate, and who just buy the console and use it the way they wanted us to, this is a good thing, but for those who mod, thats your choice and you might get banned for it, dont go buying 1 yr gold cards is all i got to say. i personaly am all for people doing whatever they want to something they own, but microsoft owns xbl so they can say no you cant get in for what ever reason they see fit. its like if you go to mcdonalds and start demanding a free burger for buying a kids meal, they can refuse you service if they so choose due to your actions, i have been kicked out of a movie theater for a friends phone going off... why shouldnt i get kicked off xbl for breaking their rules as well? oh by the way, i have a modded xbox, its just a case mod, its a blueish clear with lots of cool blue leds, power to the people!!!

DvnDrgnXD

I agree. Pirates should be banned but shame on Microsoft for disabling features that are inherent to the Xbox and not Xbox LIVE such as installing games to a hard drive. M$ should get sued as they are on one HUGE ego trip. M$ should have no right to disable a feature on my Xbox that I legally own. If a company holds more power than the government they should be shot down a notch.

I say more power than the government because not even my government can touch my Xbox 360. Well, legally a tleast :P

HA! I was wondeirng when someone would kick up something like this. What do all those feature have to do with pirating? ... WHO CARES! fact is if you mod the console chances are you did it to pirate and if you pirate then you break the end user agreement and are no longer allowed to use the console. Simple

I mean the terms and condition with the console dont say "well if you break this rule, you lose this feature and if you break this rule and that rule you loose these two features" if you break any of the agreement you break the whole agreement and thus all your xbox's funtionality goes bye bye ... i dont see how thats complex

HA! I was wondeirng when someone would kick up something like this. What do all those feature have to do with pirating? ... WHO CARES! fact is if you mod the console chances are you did it to pirate and if you pirate then you break the end user agreement and are no longer allowed to use the console. Simple

I mean the terms and condition with the console dont say "well if you break this rule, you lose this feature and if you break this rule and that rule you loose these two features" if you break any of the agreement you break the whole agreement and thus all your xbox's funtionality goes bye bye ... i dont see how thats complex

penpusher

There are no Terms of Use when using your console, ONLY when accessing the Xbox LIVE service which M$ does own. I do not have to sign a Terms of Use for anything I buy. It's mine. I get to do with it whatever I want as long as I do not commit a crime (more or less). M$ is not a law enforcement agency and has no rights to enforce laws.

Once again, I agree that Xbox LIVE bans are right. Only though for accessing Xbox LIVE as it is a service owned and operated by M$, not the console owner, however, M$ DOES NOT OWN MY CONSOLE, I DO!

P.S. I am not biased as I have never had a banned console, unlike the poster before me I choose to use common sense.

[QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

[QUOTE="Twisted-Ice-God"]

if you mod your console in ANY way at all then you have voided your warrenty, rightfully so, and have created a new device which xbox live may or may not be able to properly function with. so to protect all of us who dont mod, who dont pirate, and who just buy the console and use it the way they wanted us to, this is a good thing, but for those who mod, thats your choice and you might get banned for it, dont go buying 1 yr gold cards is all i got to say. i personaly am all for people doing whatever they want to something they own, but microsoft owns xbl so they can say no you cant get in for what ever reason they see fit. its like if you go to mcdonalds and start demanding a free burger for buying a kids meal, they can refuse you service if they so choose due to your actions, i have been kicked out of a movie theater for a friends phone going off... why shouldnt i get kicked off xbl for breaking their rules as well? oh by the way, i have a modded xbox, its just a case mod, its a blueish clear with lots of cool blue leds, power to the people!!!

creeping-deth87

I agree. Pirates should be banned but shame on Microsoft for disabling features that are inherent to the Xbox and not Xbox LIVE such as installing games to a hard drive. M$ should get sued as they are on one HUGE ego trip. M$ should have no right to disable a feature on my Xbox that I legally own. If a company holds more power than the government they should be shot down a notch.

I say more power than the government because not even my government can touch my Xbox 360. Well, legally a tleast :P

Because the Terms of Use does not ever grant M$ ownership over my console or functionality, it only covers Xbox LIVE which is owned and operated by M$.

I'm not a lawyer but I would bet that Microsoft does own the rights to the software on the Xbox 360 and the fact that the pirates used that software, and allowed for firmware updates to be processed gave Microsoft the right to revoke usage of said software, and turn it off.

Disabling the hard drives could be more of a problem but since it is Microsoft software that allows the hard drives to work they probably can legally turn that off too. I doubt they would have done any of this without consulting their lawyers. This is not the same situation as Sony hiding a virus in their CDs and installing it without user knowledge. Microsoft just turned off the right to use their software.

The only thing I think class action claimants will get out of this is some kind of reimbursements for the downloaded games. Of course applying for a claim could allow Microsoft to prosecute for pirating games. Sort of like drug dealers calling cops to say someone stole their stash. The only people that really have a case is people that can prove their consoles were not modded. That's probably a very small group, and the only people that will really benefit will be the class action lawyers as always.

I'm not a lawyer but I would bet that Microsoft does own the rights to the software on the Xbox360 and the fact that the pirates used that software, and allowed for firware updates to be processed gave Microsoft the right to revoke usage of said software.

coasterguy65

Show me. Show me where it says that for no reason (because they do not have to give one) that says M$ can disable my console. And also, M$ cannot prove that anyone is a pirate. They actually say "if we suspect". I am glad I am not going to jail automatically for commiting a crime (allegidly) but get an oppourtunity to show my innocense. M$ is just like Mexico, guilty until proven innocent, oh wait, with M$ you do not get an oppourtunity to prove my innosense.

HA! I was wondeirng when someone would kick up something like this. What do all those feature have to do with pirating? ... WHO CARES! fact is if you mod the console chances are you did it to pirate and if you pirate then you break the end user agreement and are no longer allowed to use the console. Simple

I mean the terms and condition with the console dont say "well if you break this rule, you lose this feature and if you break this rule and that rule you loose these two features" if you break any of the agreement you break the whole agreement and thus all your xbox's funtionality goes bye bye ... i dont see how thats complex

penpusher

And please, show me where in the ELUA that says M$ can disable ANY of my Xbox 360 features (again, not Xbox LIVE because I am on the same train with them on that issue).

[QUOTE="creeping-deth87"][QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

Because the Terms of Use does not ever grant M$ ownership over my console or functionality, it only covers Xbox LIVE which is owned and operated by M$.

DvnDrgnXD

[QUOTE="coasterguy65"]

I'm not a lawyer but I would bet that Microsoft does own the rights to the software on the Xbox360 and the fact that the pirates used that software, and allowed for firware updates to be processed gave Microsoft the right to revoke usage of said software.

DvnDrgnXD

Show me. Show me where it says that for no reason (because they do not have to give one) that says M$ can disable my console. And also, M$ cannot prove that anyone is a pirate. They actually say "if we suspect". I am glad I am not going to jail automatically for commiting a crime (allegidly) but get an oppourtunity to show my innocense. M$ is just like Mexico, guilty until proven innocent, oh wait, with M$ you do not get an oppourtunity to prove my innosense.

Bottom line is they are doing illegal things. People that got banned should be happy that's all that happen because I am sure Microsoft could take it a step further since these people were playing illegal copies of video games.

[QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

[QUOTE="creeping-deth87"] [QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

[QUOTE="coasterguy65"]

I'm not a lawyer but I would bet that Microsoft does own the rights to the software on the Xbox360 and the fact that the pirates used that software, and allowed for firware updates to be processed gave Microsoft the right to revoke usage of said software.

chaoscougar1

Show me. Show me where it says that for no reason (because they do not have to give one) that says M$ can disable my console. And also, M$ cannot prove that anyone is a pirate. They actually say "if we suspect". I am glad I am not going to jail automatically for commiting a crime (allegidly) but get an oppourtunity to show my innocense. M$ is just like Mexico, guilty until proven innocent, oh wait, with M$ you do not get an oppourtunity to prove my innosense.

There is one difference. M$ is not a law enforcement agency. There is no user agreement for using your Xbox (as far as I know), only Xbox LIVE, and under the EULA nothing is mentioned about disabling a console, only the banning of Xbox LIVE or a suspension if you violate the Code of Conduct.

Also, when my car is impounded because of my irresponcible acts (which usually the police can prove, M$ cannot and/or will not) I have the option to get my car back WITH ITS ORIGINAL FUNCTIONALITY (as long as I can cough up the dough). Another difference is that what if you were thrown in jail for murder, no if's, and's, but's about it all because they suspect you murdered someone though in fact you might have evidence to suggest otherwise which would prove your innosence but they nope, sorry, we do not care.

[QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

[QUOTE="creeping-deth87"] [QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

[QUOTE="coasterguy65"]

I'm not a lawyer but I would bet that Microsoft does own the rights to the software on the Xbox360 and the fact that the pirates used that software, and allowed for firware updates to be processed gave Microsoft the right to revoke usage of said software.

chaoscougar1

Show me. Show me where it says that for no reason (because they do not have to give one) that says M$ can disable my console. And also, M$ cannot prove that anyone is a pirate. They actually say "if we suspect". I am glad I am not going to jail automatically for commiting a crime (allegidly) but get an oppourtunity to show my innocense. M$ is just like Mexico, guilty until proven innocent, oh wait, with M$ you do not get an oppourtunity to prove my innosense.

Im guessing that not many people know that the xbox didnt start off with the install feature and has only recently acquired it. So what makes people think that by taking the install feature away MS is breaking the law. The put it there and can take it away and the xbox still functions properly so whats the big deal.

Bottom line is they are doing illegal things. People that got banned should be happy that's all that happen because I am sure Microsoft could take it a step further since these people were playing illegal copies of video games.

rp108

Criminals still have rights.

And don't you think that if M$ had sufficient evidence they would sue the pirates? It's all speculation on M$'s part. M$=China part II.

There is a forum on Xbox.com of a list of gamertags who have challenged M$, they admit they pirate games yet M$ still does not do anything.

M$ Employee: Oh, Mr. Bill Gates, this guy who logged onto Xbox LIVE has a different firmware update than what we have put out.

Mr Bill Gates: Must be a pirate though we cannot prove it, ban him. You know what, ban everyone that tinkers with their Xbox and disable certain features, we can't be to sure!

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

Show me. Show me where it says that for no reason (because they do not have to give one) that says M$ can disable my console. And also, M$ cannot prove that anyone is a pirate. They actually say "if we suspect". I am glad I am not going to jail automatically for commiting a crime (allegidly) but get an oppourtunity to show my innocense. M$ is just like Mexico, guilty until proven innocent, oh wait, with M$ you do not get an oppourtunity to prove my innosense.

Gen007

Im guessing that not many people know that the xbox didnt start off with the install feature and has only recently acquired it. So what makes people think that by taking the install feature away MS is breaking the law. The put it there and can take it away and the xbox still functions properly so whats the big deal.

Wasn't the firmware update mandatory. Even if you bought a new game it required you to install the NXE from the game disk (UFC is one of those games). Seems like people had no choice.

[QUOTE="rp108"]

Bottom line is they are doing illegal things. People that got banned should be happy that's all that happen because I am sure Microsoft could take it a step further since these people were playing illegal copies of video games.

DvnDrgnXD

Criminals still have rights.

And don't you think that if M$ had sufficient evidence they would sue the pirates? It's all speculation on M$'s part. M$=China part II.

There is a forum on Xbox.com of a list of gamertags who have challenged M$, they admit they pirate games yet M$ still does not do anything.

M$ Employee: Oh, Mr. Bill Gates, this guy who logged onto Xbox LIVE has a different firmware update than what we have put out.

Mr Bill Gates: Must be a pirate though we cannot prove it, ban him. You know what, ban everyone that tinkers with their Xbox and disable certain features, we can't be to sure!

Look, I am not defending pirates. I am defending against M$'s ego trip. Even people who fix their own Xbox (which is perfectly in their right) get banned. Thankfully, the bad stuff has happened on my warranty period but would you pay $100 for a $30 fix? Which was due to the faulty Xboxs knowing sent out to consumers JUST to beat the PS3 by a year. Seems like M$ is the criminal to me.

RRoD

The E64 or 69 code or whatever it is.

Faulty DVD drives.

What about the fact that people get some games a few days early due to a store breaking the street date? I understand a lot of the games were pirated but a good chunk were also broken street dates. It's not illegal to purchase a game with a broken street date nor is it in the EULA yet M$ insists they are in the right. Or the fact they provide no explination for the bans is also fishy.

I understand the need to ban consoles which have shown to have played pirated games, but M$ cannot show it. If they could, great, developers would start to get the hard earned money they sometimes deserve.

Miracle at St. Anna was a movie where the Nazi's had shot everyone in the village because they suspected someone knew of a resistor, M$ is not different.

[QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

[QUOTE="rp108"]

Bottom line is they are doing illegal things. People that got banned should be happy that's all that happen because I am sure Microsoft could take it a step further since these people were playing illegal copies of video games.

chaoscougar1

Criminals still have rights.

And don't you think that if M$ had sufficient evidence they would sue the pirates? It's all speculation on M$'s part. M$=China part II.

There is a forum on Xbox.com of a list of gamertags who have challenged M$, they admit they pirate games yet M$ still does not do anything.

M$ Employee: Oh, Mr. Bill Gates, this guy who logged onto Xbox LIVE has a different firmware update than what we have put out.

Mr Bill Gates: Must be a pirate though we cannot prove it, ban him. You know what, ban everyone that tinkers with their Xbox and disable certain features, we can't be to sure!

Because they did not neccesarily break the law. Fixing your own console is apparently grounds for a ban (and a disabling of certain Xbox features).

Look, I am not defending pirates. I am defending against M$'s ego trip. Even people who fix their own Xbox (which is perfectly in their right) get banned. Thankfully, the bad stuff has happened on my warranty period but would you pay $100 for a $30 fix? Which was due to the faulty Xboxs knowing sent out to consumers JUST to beat the PS3 by a year. Seems like M$ is the criminal to me.

RRoD

The E64 or 69 code or whatever it is.

Faulty DVD drives.

What about the fact that people get some games a few days early due to a store breaking the street date? I understand a lot of the games were pirated but a good chunk were also broken street dates. It's not illegal to purchase a game with a broken street date nor is it in the EULA yet M$ insists they are in the right. Or the fact they provide no explination for the bans is also fishy.

I understand the need to ban consoles which have shown to have played pirated games, but M$ cannot show it. If they could, great, developers would start to get the hard earned money they sometimes deserve.

Miracle at St. Anna was a movie where the Nazi's had shot everyone in the village because they suspected someone knew of a resistor, M$ is not different.

DvnDrgnXD

[QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

[QUOTE="rp108"]

Bottom line is they are doing illegal things. People that got banned should be happy that's all that happen because I am sure Microsoft could take it a step further since these people were playing illegal copies of video games.

chaoscougar1

Criminals still have rights.

And don't you think that if M$ had sufficient evidence they would sue the pirates? It's all speculation on M$'s part. M$=China part II.

There is a forum on Xbox.com of a list of gamertags who have challenged M$, they admit they pirate games yet M$ still does not do anything.

M$ Employee: Oh, Mr. Bill Gates, this guy who logged onto Xbox LIVE has a different firmware update than what we have put out.

Mr Bill Gates: Must be a pirate though we cannot prove it, ban him. You know what, ban everyone that tinkers with their Xbox and disable certain features, we can't be to sure!

Actually, you are right. I have never heard of an incorrectly banned console. You know why? Because M$'s policy is not to discuss it nor even to attempt to remedy the problem. Yes, I guess suppression does work.

[QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

Look, I am not defending pirates. I am defending against M$'s ego trip. Even people who fix their own Xbox (which is perfectly in their right) get banned. Thankfully, the bad stuff has happened on my warranty period but would you pay $100 for a $30 fix? Which was due to the faulty Xboxs knowing sent out to consumers JUST to beat the PS3 by a year. Seems like M$ is the criminal to me.

RRoD

The E64 or 69 code or whatever it is.

Faulty DVD drives.

What about the fact that people get some games a few days early due to a store breaking the street date? I understand a lot of the games were pirated but a good chunk were also broken street dates. It's not illegal to purchase a game with a broken street date nor is it in the EULA yet M$ insists they are in the right. Or the fact they provide no explination for the bans is also fishy.

I understand the need to ban consoles which have shown to have played pirated games, but M$ cannot show it. If they could, great, developers would start to get the hard earned money they sometimes deserve.

Miracle at St. Anna was a movie where the Nazi's had shot everyone in the village because they suspected someone knew of a resistor, M$ is not different.

chaoscougar1

Are you aware it is not just mods they can detect? What about the consumer who changes a fan due to his Xbox overheating? M$ can detect ANY change to the Xbox's Hardware and Software and any "unauthorized" fix is grounds for a ban. Do cell phone company's disable my phone for fixing it myself? No, they do not. Heck! Sony does not turn off my Bravia for fixing the power cord.

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="DvnDrgnXD"]

Look, I am not defending pirates. I am defending against M$'s ego trip. Even people who fix their own Xbox (which is perfectly in their right) get banned. Thankfully, the bad stuff has happened on my warranty period but would you pay $100 for a $30 fix? Which was due to the faulty Xboxs knowing sent out to consumers JUST to beat the PS3 by a year. Seems like M$ is the criminal to me.

RRoD

The E64 or 69 code or whatever it is.

Faulty DVD drives.

What about the fact that people get some games a few days early due to a store breaking the street date? I understand a lot of the games were pirated but a good chunk were also broken street dates. It's not illegal to purchase a game with a broken street date nor is it in the EULA yet M$ insists they are in the right. Or the fact they provide no explination for the bans is also fishy.

I understand the need to ban consoles which have shown to have played pirated games, but M$ cannot show it. If they could, great, developers would start to get the hard earned money they sometimes deserve.

Miracle at St. Anna was a movie where the Nazi's had shot everyone in the village because they suspected someone knew of a resistor, M$ is not different.

DvnDrgnXD

Are you aware it is not just mods they can detect? What about the consumer who changes a fan due to his Xbox overheating? M$ can detect ANY change to the Xbox's Hardware and Software and any "unauthorized" fix is grounds for a ban. Do cell phone company's disable my phone for fixing it myself? No, they do not. Heck! Sony does not turn off my Bravia for fixing the power cord.

[QUOTE="rp108"]

Bottom line is they are doing illegal things. People that got banned should be happy that's all that happen because I am sure Microsoft could take it a step further since these people were playing illegal copies of video games.

DvnDrgnXD

Criminals still have rights.

And don't you think that if M$ had sufficient evidence they would sue the pirates? It's all speculation on M$'s part. M$=China part II.

There is a forum on Xbox.com of a list of gamertags who have challenged M$, they admit they pirate games yet M$ still does not do anything.

M$ Employee: Oh, Mr. Bill Gates, this guy who logged onto Xbox LIVE has a different firmware update than what we have put out.

Mr Bill Gates: Must be a pirate though we cannot prove it, ban him. You know what, ban everyone that tinkers with their Xbox and disable certain features, we can't be to sure!

It's not speculation at all. They can identify if the game you are playing is legit or not. Also, it's not Microsoft's copyrights its the game developers. The game developers however can bring up lawsuits and try to fine these people some amount of money for breaking copyright laws. It has been done with people downloading songs online through file sharing so it's very possible since Microsoft has information that would easily identify these people. Not only that but if these people actually sign their names with this law firm they are basically saying "yeah, we download illegal copies of games, got caught and now trying to receive some compensation". This whole thing is ridiculous and I do not understand how ANY one would defend people unless you are one of them.