Nostos: Dominion Calling

Nostos: Dominion Calling

Season 2

Having gained new allies and lost others, the crew of the gunship Nostos is shanghaied to a new galaxy three million light years away, shepherded by a smarmy, all-knowing AI. Thrust into the portentious wreckage of a toppled civilization, they are confronted with a new threat: an ancient empire in its death throes. It's a powder keg that must be handled with care, but the Coalition they left behind is hot on the heels of the Darkstar crew they've branded as rogue. Blunt-forced and indelicate, they vow to deliver war to Journey galaxy in order to bring the fugitives of the state to justice. 

With people hard at work on installments that line up with some semblance of scheduled releases, I figured I would join in the fray as well, if to keep me regular and in practice. This time around, against my better judgment, I'll try doing chapter releases rather than bi-annual episodes. Hope it reads okay, and here's to a productive summer for all of us.

-125

Wh-what. I still haven't finished season 1. Well shimps.

Post a summary of season 1 will you? I need to be part of pop culture at all times.

AT ALL. TIMES.

LOL hey man, how's it going. 

I'll do a rundown of each ep, and it'll be like a logline for TV programs except for major plot events.

Literally spoilers...

[spoiler] Homecoming; Pilot
The gunship Nostos makes a hasty jump to avoid the destruction of the Oasis space station. Crippled in space, they come up with a plan to salvage the other destroyed Darkstar vessels who went down with the Oasis. They contract the crew of the Nova Remnant to ferry them across the Rim, electing not to reveal their identities and true objectives. Tyrone, captain of the Nova, has his own issues: having kidnapped the infamous gunslinger India, he and his crew are on the run from a gangster and his criminal empire. Nostos comes under attack from pirates while the crew of the Nova deals with mercenaries; Sergeant West completes an op and acquires hardware to power Nostos' guns, the Nova crew survives the encounter, but not without loss. West releases a wounded pirate by the name of Mortan Desalya.

Radiant Darkness
Nostos is taken over by mercenaries who crash-landed during the previous space battle. Captain Sin Jackson is trapped inside the belly of the ship while West is dispatched to find her. The Nova crew run into a tyrant local sheriff. 

Trans Universum
A refugee taken on from Oasis is found dead, another attempts to suicide-bomb the chief engineer of Nostos. Although wounded from the last engagement, West is sent to play detective. His link to the tight-lipped refugees is a ten year old orphan named Max. The Nova crew travel to Capo, a gang-filled wasteland, and are accosted by a corporation. The corrupt station head is a Coalition Fleet veteran who strikes up a deal with Commander Arturo, employing India and Tyrone. Their plans go awry when the base is attacked by members of the cartel. After an attempted hit in the showers of Nostos, West is taken captive by a cultish sect of refugees and the marines are sent to rescue him. Impulsive action taken by Sin Jackson leaves innocent refugees dead in the crossfire--the orphan Max among them--and West catatonic. During an autopsy of the suicide-bomber, the ship doctor finds what the chief deduces is a long-ranged subspace transmitter.

Storm Is Threat'nin
An unknown ship finds its way to a neighbouring system; Sin and Aden are sent to investigate. West has a fever dream and hallucinations of his past during the Gemini war. The Nova crew reach the Oasis, but are found by the criminal lord Cheng's henchmen. They race against time to recover the hardware from the derelict Darkstar and fight for their lives. Sin and Aden and the chief discover that the vessel (Triton) is a Mergence ship and it carries dozens of passengers frozen in cryo-sleep. Tyrone is gravely wounded by India in an act of betrayal, and Arturo's ensign makes a call to jump directly to Nostos. West nearly overdoses on morphine.

Where I Went Left and You Went Right
Tyrone's pilot Haley clings to life after having her throat slit by Arturo's ensign in order to force them to surrender. They are taken to the ship's brig, and with the return of Arturo and a successful mission, the ship routine of Nostos settles into normalcy. Arturo and Tyrone quarrel about their conflicting views. A Coalition battle-group jumps in system led by Commodore Stone. Stone promises to expediate repairs to the vessel; he invites Nostos command staff to dinner aboard his vessel. Following dinner, Sin confronts West about his avoiding her; Arturo feels he is no longer the true CO of the vessel after being absent through so much. They wake one of the passengers on the Triton and West manages to speak to him, revealing that he was a Coalition marine who disappeared years ago; an event promptly covered up by Coalition intelligence. Lieutenant Locke and Ensign Frye uncover Stone's plans for the rest of the Triton passengers; they and West stage a coup for control of Nostos. Frye disappears with Tyrone's wounded pilot; West, Tyrone, and a number of refugees escape the system; Locke is arrested and executed by Stone; Arturo is relieved of command.

Complete Faith
The Nostos crew roster has been scrambled, and Aden is assigned to the frigate Inquisition. West and Tyrone contact the Patriarch, who is actually Mortan Desalya. He has been hiding out and licking his wounds since the space battle. Mortan exchanges favours with them and promises men and ships to help retake Nostos if they eliminate a dissenting former lieutenant. Aden snoops around Inquisition's computer system and finds references to something Stone is looking for called "Sleeping Beauty." Tyrone is captured by Cheng and India; they find out Cheng has ties to Commodore Stone, serving as his eyes and ears on the Rim. When Stone makes the first move against Nostos, Cheng's personal fleet is called in to assist. The Nostos bridge is shot up by one of Stone's men while the Nostos marines mount a rescue and exodus of the personnel on Stone's vessels, including the chief engineer. Once he is rescued, he is brought back to Nostos while Arturo is returned to command.

India turns on Cheng, killing him swiftly as it is revealed she is the daughter of Mortan and Tyrone's goal was to reunite the two all along while taking Cheng out of the picture. Meanwhile, the Nova is tracked down by the rival pirate faction wanting to enact revenge for killing their leader, who actually doesn't have any ties to Mortan--he has manipulated his way into creating a distraction as he has no men or ships of his own. They flee Cheng's burning yacht and seek refuge aboard Nostos. The chief engineer fixes what is broken aboard Nostos and installs something extra... Sleeping Beauty is a codename for an AI that has been hiding within the architecture of the salvaged reactor (recovered from the Darkstar wreck near Oasis). The chief (McAvon), Locke, and Frye are part of a group whose goal was to protect the AI. Once she is unleashed, she takes over the vessel, and causes Nostos to travel to another galaxy (McAvon had secretly been modifying the FTL system with parts taken from the Triton). Although he attempts to rejoin Nostos, West is left behind. Stone is killed in the final space battle. The AI (Faith) explains to the baffled crew that she is Mergence by design. The historical expedition took the Mergence fleet to a new galaxy, where they encountered a hostile race and were nearly wiped out. Her purpose was to return and organize a resistance, and the crew of Nostos will help her. [/spoiler]

Whew, I'm exhausted. That is two years of history right there. But I'm definitely ready to start reading and writing fun stuff, so see you soon. 

As I'm reading, I got confused between Nostos and Nova several times. Maybe you should call the Nova Remnant the "Remnant" as a form of shorthand? Nostos here, and Remnant there.

Anyway, just based on that synopsis, the story for the first season sounded looong, and not in a good way. More like a, "I could really fall asleep while reading this" way. The major reason behind that impression? The pilot episode. No matter how many times I remember it, nothing stands out. I remember the image of the Oasis floating in space, but we never really got to explore it. I remember the wolverines racing back and forth, some fun dialogue between Sin, Slate?, and what's-his-name, but that was short-lived. The attack on the Oasis sort of just happened, though the culmination with Arturo manning the ship was a memorable one. The list goes on. The pilot episode was just looong, and for so little reason.

I think starting off the pilot with the Wolverine training, and hence jumping right to the part where the Oasis gets destroyed, would've probably made it more memorable.

Yeah I'll definitely try my best to keep things moving. From my travels, I've finally learnt the power of telling. Earlier I was under the mindset the scene HAD to have microcosmic unity and play out from beginning to end since you can't narrate on screen. But now I feel like this is getting much more novel-y than the previous thing so I can skip around a bit and hang out in characters' heads.

Part of the length in s1 was me stalling for time while I figured out what my actual story was lol. When I go back, I'll strip it down. In its defense, I've decided it's supposed to be a slower-paced character study and the actual story is the friction between everyone, so I can't tell you why there are so many explosions and action setpieces. I sound like a douche, but after taking a course on the French New Wave and seeing/reading Truffaut talk about character relationships on screen, it's hard for me to stick to pure genre writing. BUT, a lot of the first season was pretty self-indulgent I'll admit, though that's what first drafts are for, right? :P

I'll make an effort this time around.

Finally summer. Time to dive right in:

Read the Cautious Realist part. Just to be clear, those are new characters, right? I'm not supposed to remember ay of them? I thought it had goon tension building and character development. I don't have much more to say about it. 

Hey! I hope your exams went well?

Yeah some new blood in the mix. I think I was going to start with the old gang, but I thought since the whole season is getting a new coat of paint, might as well go with some of the new, major players. Which is a great segue into what I've been playing around with the last few weeks on my off hours... 

I've got about 10 more character sketches (of varying quality), and I guess I'll wheel them out when the time is right :P 

Those are some good sketches! Any plans to color them in?

What's with the latin name for the guy?

Thanks man, but unfortunately I don't know how to colour beyond paintbucket > fill xP. I did two scans of each drawing (B&W drawing/B&W photograph) and in many cases I liked the really dirty, grey pencil "photograph" version that is all smudged up by my palm. But I had to zoom in all the way on their faces for these posters, and I had to go with B&W drawing scans (sacrificing lighter details for harder lines).

BTW "Novus Homo" is a term used in Roman politics for a person who is the first of his family to serve in the Senate (he is usually without a powerful family name to give him prestige and sway, and has to become essentially a "self-made man"). 

Reading i), here are my thoughts:

Most days, Viviana said, not really affirming his words.

I'm probably making this mistake a lot myself, but this line kinda underestimates the reader. It is quite obvious by her choice of words that she isn't really affirming his statement and you don't need to point it out.

"some spoke of gratuitous torture, others said they could somehow get into your head like human lie-detectors that decided what was the truth and what wasnt."

The word decided leads to some confusion. I'm assuming you mean they could discover the truth, but it could also mean they brainwashed their victims and altered what they perceived as true.

I hope you don't get tired of me saying this, but excellent dialogue in this chapter. It also ends on a good, intriguing note. 

Reading i), here are my thoughts:

Most days, Viviana said, not really affirming his words.

I'm probably making this mistake a lot myself, but this line kinda underestimates the reader. It is quite obvious by her choice of words that she isn't really affirming his statement and you don't need to point it out.waZelda

I think I would agree with that if the conversation was straight up banter, but it just goes with the attempt at a more present character voice than the previous season where it just jumped all over the motherf**ker lol. The affirmation of not affirming isn't really for the reader's sake, but for Tenant himself, if that makes sense. The narration previously was more voyeuristic and dependent on overt body language and like you said, choice of words. But with very close third, he's putting his own mental red flag up over something she says. Their little verbal spar was nothing more than a game of chicken. The point is not that Viviana is being suspiciously dismissive, but it's that Tenant is testing her and decides that for himself. In the past, I think that little tag would have equated to Tenant shooting her a sharp look or something, but again with allowing myself to tell, it breaks up my overused phrases just a little bit. I'm hoping in your head you'll have imagined Tenant doing something that says, Hah, caught you in a lie!

"some spoke of gratuitous torture, others said they could somehow get into your head like human lie-detectors that decided what was the truth and what wasnt."

The word decided leads to some confusion. I'm assuming you mean they could discover the truth, but it could also mean they brainwashed their victims and altered what they perceived as true.

waZelda

Yeah I wasn't too happy with that line in particular. Feels kind of clumsy, but you're pretty on the mark. Imperators (previously named Inquisitors, but thanks to Warhammer, I can't do that) are sadistic, nasty people held together by outward manners and acting skills, and I'm excited to have a character like that in the grey this time, rather than at the end of the villain spectrum like last season. Keep an eye on Viviana, man, because I think the Tenant/Viviana plot is the one I want to tell the most (and the one that's making me sit down and write each day).  

Reading i), here are my thoughts:

Most days, Viviana said, not really affirming his words.

I'm probably making this mistake a lot myself, but this line kinda underestimates the reader. It is quite obvious by her choice of words that she isn't really affirming his statement and you don't need to point it out.

waZelda

It's actually (supposedly) bad practice to leave adverbs and extra descriptions lying around lines of dialogue. The reason is that the dialogue is supposed to explain the character's feelings by itself or something. I interpret it as "telling" the dialogue after "showing" the dialogue, and of course, only "showing" counts in active scenes.

Even if the extra description is introspection for another character, it's not the character who's reading the story--it's the reader. The extra line is redundant to the reader.

I'll take it into consideration. I've heard the leave dialogue tags simple rule as well, but mostly on the AW forums full of punks and bloggers, and there you get a slew of good advice and bad. While show don't tell is a good rule of thumb in extreme cases (even I tell my students) it's just so high school English. That's definitely not the case with litfic, which is allll about introspection. Although no doubt it should be written better prosaically than it is, and that's on me.

But it's almost shocking how little relevance dialogue has in a scene. I got chewed up in workshops for having dialogue interactions that don't at the end offer any insight on the character or story (because dialogue, while entertaining, can be so so so badly misconstrued, so if possible I look at it and try to answer: why does POV character say this, how does POV character interpret this?). I guess it's my personal belief it's not redundant if there's a chance dialogue could be misinterpreted (I've done my fair share of totally "getting it wrong" sometimes) and it's all about the POV character's voice. Viviana doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve, and just by association, Tenant will always be second guessing her, just as his own self doubts come up--or will come up.

But anyway, thanks you two. Ever vigilant. I'll be on the lookout if it pops up again.

Finally reading, will leave my thoughts as I go along.

A length of chain upturned the tapered and packed dirt as it trailed behind its charge.

I take immediate issue with this! First sentences are usually the hardest to write, aren't they? However, the longer you are allowed to edit, the more adjectives manage to creep in there and ruin everything.

How does this sound:

A length of chain upturned the dirt as it trailed behind its charge.

"Upturned" still sounds odd, but that's just a personal iff. Overall this sentence has more of a flow to it than before, no? And nothing of consequence was lost.

Edit: Oh hell, the entire first paragraph reads like it was over-edited!

Edit2: WHAT IN THE HECK AM I READING

Sparticus-speak.

Here let me help you with that sparticus-speak.

Does this not sting you? His eyes flitted over to his followers. Like the rest of your kind?

Should be: "Like rest of your kind?"

Omit the "the".

and so shall you ever remain a defeated people.

remain defeated people.

Omit the "a".

but she is the prize of our efforts here.

"--but she is prize of efforts here."

Omit "the". Omit "our" since it be implied already.

Separate the men from the womenfrom there, the aggressive from the passive. Use sense, Athus. Know what you condemn them toor save them from.

"Separate men from women--from there, aggressive from passive. Use sense, Athus. Know what condemn them to--or save from."

Omit "the". Omit "you" since it be implied already he refers to Athus. Omit "them" since also be implied.

 I understand. Ill still clumsy tongue with dire hopes to join you at honourable front.

"Understand. Still clumsy tongue with dire hopes to join honourable front."

Omit "I" since already speaks makes sense. Omit "you" since honourable front already implies belongs.

I mean really, how am I supposed to take anything these guys say seriously? :P

Modified-Sparty speak because it stopped being fun when John Hannah was no longer around to exclaim "Jupiter's cock !" :lol:.

But for real, I need the I's, you's,  just the main thing is the bastard Latin dropping of possessives (my/your/his) but even then it's too hard or confusing in some instances. You're right that "ours" and "the's" can go, though, but there's parts where I made the call to add possessives because I myself get confused at the sentence. If I drop the references to self, to be honest, I don't really get some of the "obvious" implications... for example, that one pull out sounds as if Venaris is ordering his superior to shut up, which made me laugh. 

You'll take 'em seriously when heads start to roll, son. 

Dude I was trolling. :lol:

And how did you sneak the word cock past Gamespot's vulgarity sensors?

Oh my.

I got chills when you typed "Kill them all."

Not sure if like whole "Roman people in advanced space civ" thing. Remind me of Imperium of Man, except that nobody take them seriously. How would original colonists of the planet even regress so far and why would Dominion let them? Because they easy to control?

Seems kind of weird that those two want this guy to hunt down the Nostos specifically because he knows their commander. There would have to be a huge competence gap between him and all the other candidates, because the fact that he is associated with Arturo and already disillusioned with the Coalition should set off some huge reliability red flags to someone experienced in handling potential rebels, a.k.a. Imperator Rose. 

with the secretary of defense, am I

door of the secretary of defenses office

The first letters should be capitalized because it's highly unlikely that there would be many Secretaries of Defense running around. It's not exactly a duplicable government office.

BDUand its a nice one, very sharpand a combat vest can only do so much.

I am trying to picture an old dude wearing this thing around a wasteland hellhole. Nope, it wouldn't protect him against things like toxins or particulates, which can actually be a lot more dangerous than just bullets.

Though he shouldn't be worried too much about the bulletproof vest, the guns your characters use are hardly more dangerous than modern ones. 

Not sure if like whole "Roman people in advanced space civ" thing. Remind me of Imperium of Man, except that nobody take them seriously. How would original colonists of the planet even regress so far and why would Dominion let them? Because they easy to control? Barbariser

This is a big talking point, and I'll get to this at the end.

Seems kind of weird that those two want this guy to hunt down the Nostos specifically because he knows their commander. There would have to be a huge competence gap between him and all the other candidates, because the fact that he is associated with Arturo and already disillusioned with the Coalition should set off some huge reliability red flags to someone experienced in handling potential rebels, a.k.a. Imperator Rose. Barbariser

Good question to ask. I *think* the next chapter should answer or at least raise the same doubt you have, or you can see where it might potentially be heading.

The first letters should be capitalized because it's highly unlikely that there would be many Secretaries of Defense running around. It's not exactly a duplicable government office. Barb

You're right. And that actually makes a lot of sense now :P.

I am trying to picture an old dude wearing this thing around a wasteland hellhole. Nope, it wouldn't protect him against things like toxins or particulates, which can actually be a lot more dangerous than just bullets. Barb

Might we assume futuristic BDUs include protection + gas masks? Lol you're right though, this might be addressed next chapter. 

Now, on the subject of Space Romans, I know this was a point of contention that was holding me up when we spoke about it last year. The main point I was looking for was the inclusion of melee combat in such a way, 'cause I wasn't too thrilled by laser guns and energy weapons. I actually played some Dawn of War II over the summer, and it's what pushed me over the edge to hit the ground running and just go with it. I don't actually know anything about the Warhammer lore, but when I started using some space marines to bash some skulls with a massive hammer while explosions and stuff were going off, I was pretty inspired.

But the thing I'm mostly gonna crib from the Romans is their politics and values. To address the technology gap, I think my opening chapter was a little misleading (though I'm still making last minute changes). Projectile energy weapons to an extent do exist, but they're extremely limited and I see them assigned one to each "platoon" in the heavy-weapon capacity, used for taking out fortifications or dispersing formations. But these things are mostly deployed in times of actual war, not when dealing with "barbarians" akin to pests. They want slaves, not charred bodies. When you mention "original colonists," that's who you're referring to right? There is some lore there to explain the regression that will be explored in the coming chapters.

I sat down one day a couple of months back and typed up a document going over the history of the Dominion that I think addresses a lot of the issues I had in terms of factions and characters. It's still extremely character-driven, I believe there's ample sympathetic character motivations to allow for this environment. If I can ask, what are some of your biggest reservations about the concept of the Dominion?

Thanks for asking the hard questions. Somebody's gotta do it.

Now, on the subject of Space Romans, I know this was a point of contention that was holding me up when we spoke about it last year. The main point I was looking for was the inclusion of melee combat in such a way, 'cause I wasn't too thrilled by laser guns and energy weapons. I actually played some Dawn of War II over the summer, and it's what pushed me over the edge to hit the ground running and just go with it. I don't actually know anything about the Warhammer lore, but when I started using some space marines to bash some skulls with a massive hammer while explosions and stuff were going off, I was pretty inspired.

But the thing I'm mostly gonna crib from the Romans is their politics and values. To address the technology gap, I think my opening chapter was a little misleading (though I'm still making last minute changes). Projectile energy weapons to an extent do exist, but they're extremely limited and I see them assigned one to each "platoon" in the heavy-weapon capacity, used for taking out fortifications or dispersing formations. But these things are mostly deployed in times of actual war, not when dealing with "barbarians" akin to pests. They want slaves, not charred bodies. When you mention "original colonists," that's who you're referring to right? There is some lore there to explain the regression that will be explored in the coming chapters.

I sat down one day a couple of months back and typed up a document going over the history of the Dominion that I think addresses a lot of the issues I had in terms of factions and characters. It's still extremely character-driven, I believe there's ample sympathetic character motivations to allow for this environment. If I can ask, what are some of your biggest reservations about the concept of the Dominion?

Thanks for asking the hard questions. Somebody's gotta do it.

Sharpie125

In Warhamer, Space Marines, Orks, Eldar and other melee warriors can do that because they are either superhumanly strong, superhumanly fast, have technologically advanced swords/hammers/axes or some combination of these. Also the ultimate reason they wrote it that way is because, like you, their writers thought it was cool. 

Here's the problem with primitive cultures having sophisticated tech, the problem is not just that it's rare, is that the quantity and quality of them diminishes over time. We have to clean and oil our guns all the time and the more powerful (and complicated) they are the more maintenance they need. Bullets and batteries will also definitely be finite resources.

Since space Romans probably can't get decent soap or lubrication, their "projectile energy weapons" are going to be gradually becoming useless over years if not months. Although I actually see that this can be worked into the story somehow, maybe with the central tech-hoarding society losing its military advantages and dominance over other groups of regressed humans on the planet? That is a similar situation to the slow decay of the Roman Empire, after all.

I don't know what the Dominion really is other than a few details. There may be reasons for them to leave regressed humans lying around and enslave some of them, so that part isn't necessarily problematic. So no reservations about it yet. 

In Warhamer, Space Marines, Orks, Eldar and other melee warriors can do that because they are either superhumanly strong, superhumanly fast, have technologically advanced swords/hammers/axes or some combination of these. Also the ultimate reason they wrote it that way is because, like you, their writers thought it was cool. 

Here's the problem with primitive cultures having sophisticated tech, the problem is not just that it's rare, is that the quantity and quality of them diminishes over time. We have to clean and oil our guns all the time and the more powerful (and complicated) they are the more maintenance they need. Bullets and batteries will also definitely be finite resources.

Since space Romans probably can't get decent soap or lubrication, their "projectile energy weapons" are going to be gradually becoming useless over years if not months. Although I actually see that this can be worked into the story somehow, maybe with the central tech-hoarding society losing its military advantages and dominance over other groups of regressed humans on the planet? That is a similar situation to the slow decay of the Roman Empire, after all.

I don't know what the Dominion really is other than a few details. There may be reasons for them to leave regressed humans lying around and enslave some of them, so that part isn't necessarily problematic. So no reservations about it yet. 

Barbariser

Okay, I see your concerns. They're definitely more than fair and I'm struggling between practicality vs aesthetic as well. Why put them in tents when they could probably build really snazzy field housing? There are some conventions where I have my own qualms with as well, but we'll see if it gets so bad I have to iron them out. 

When you say "primitive culture," that's my stumbling block. What makes a culture primitive (even if they possess decent if not better technology in some regards)? Was it what we talked about ages ago, the morality of the collective people? I'm really curious because while the Dominion is kind of backwards, there's this parallel between them and the Coalition when it comes to politics... this is just a huge coincidence, but I was hanging out with my friends last week and Gladiator came on, the part where Commodus rides into Rome. I remember reading that Ridley Scott was hugely inspired by Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will (1935), modeling the legionaire formation after the Nazi rally, the Reichseagle and Roman eagle, etc; Hitler adored the Romans, to little surprise. Just some of my thoughts, but I'd definitely like to see your take on the question of culture.

When we say "space Romans," are you saying these people aren't advanced enough to wield futuristic weaponry? I'm hesitant to bring this up lol but when I envision the Dominion, I do it to the point of alien races in something like the Marvel universe's Asgard (but not totally OP) or John Carter's sky people (not a baaaad film). Their motivations are totally medieval, but they have badass weapons and fly ships and stuff. For example, in my case, the Dominion's sarissae/blades aren't just straight up wood and metal. The cop out answer (and one I might be going with lol) is alien metal that is extremely dense and can melt through weaker armour. Is that still too advanced for your perception of the Dominion, or is that a little more grounded? The tech-hoarding thing is interesting, and I'll put some thought into that.

Thanks, and there's a new chapter up (has nothing to do with the above sadly lol). At your convenience.

Major confusion with these two pieces of dialogue:

Mareus was blunt with the chieftain: Your conscripts would see better life in this garrisoneven cities of great removed far from mindthan stuck in squalor with you and your own. He looked him straight in the eye. Its familiar knowledge, how you treat your slaves.

The chieftains face was impassive, not indignant at Mareus claim. He said, No different than those of your own.

sharpie

"even cities of great removed far from mind" -- is he trying to say "cities long forgotten"? Because what's wrong with just saying "cities long forgotten"?

"No different than those of your own" -- is the chief saying that it's familiar knowledge that his tribe treats its own slaves "no different than [we treat] those of your own", or that it's familiar knowledge his tribe treats its own slaves "no different than [you treat] those of your own"? The implication is [we treat] by default, given the context, but that would be wrong.

Finally crawled to the end of the prologue (I assume it's the prologue; it's the opening part before "i") and I'll just be blunt: I'm bored.

I don't mean to be harsh. Your writing is good, if a bit "purply with it" (shut up Barb), but there's just a lot of excess bloat to wade through to get to the meaningful parts, and I'm STILL struggling to figure out what I'm reading here. This is most likely a personal thing, since I had a similar issue with the previous season. But then again, I have to ask: do you need to spend so many sentences introducing backstories and discussing side facts about Mareus and his legion? I feel like most of the exposition did nothing but damage what could have otherwise been a smooth-flowing scene. And again, despite all of it, I'm STILL struggling to figure out what I'm reading here.

I'm curious to see how this chapter might look if you cut out everything except the main plot. You know, the story of a tribe of Hikari getting captured because of a blonde woman, then getting released. It'll be shorter, more focused, and I think better off for it overall.

Edit: Something about these two seasons of Nostos seemed very familiar to me while I was reading them, and I just remembered what it is they reminded me of: The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. I also feel like I mentioned that before.

Dunno if you read it, but basically, TWoT is a 14-book series (iirc), and the quality of the story decreases with almost failproof certainty past book four. Why? Because absolutely nothing happens in all the middle books' hundreds of pages. The current politics get detailed. You learn about farm crops and new clothing trends. Characters brood over romantic relationships left to right. It's similar to Nostos in that it has a massive cast, but it's different in that the series starts off by giving us the main conflict right away: someone's going to become the next "Dragon" and battle Shai-Tan. Boom. In book four all Shai-Tan's generals start coming back and our young, unprepared protagonists get thrust into impossible battles against them. But afterward, in book five and on, the generals just basically lounge about. Just like in Nostos, dialogue dialoge, exposition exposition. Who's plotting what against who. Ohhh, look how perfectly my plan is coming along.

Read the reviews for it on Amazon. The stars just go down past book 4 because the middle books have very little of the first four books' progressive pace.

All this is to say, perhaps the issue I'm having with this series is the same issue I and all the other readers of TWoT had with TWoT, which is that it just doesn't progress fast enough, and that the main conflict that will eventually develop is buried in a lot of mundane trivia. Unfortunately Nostos doesn't have a strong opening that pinpoints the main plot in either season, so I can't even start off being interested in it. What I should also mention, though, is that this is common practice of literary fiction, which I despise with a pretty big passion, but isn't by any means a bad genre. I actually think it would be a pretty interesting experiment for a sci-fi story to be written in lit fic format, even if I'll probably never read/finish reading it. Whether that's your intention or not, that's what this story feels like.

So I'll try to read the next chapter, but if there's any of the previous chapter's meandering in it, don't be surprised if I just fall off the thread.

Yeah what foolz3h said. :P

No, wait, I meant "lit fic" in the sense that it focuses on the quality of the prose, rather than the story. It's a term I've been throwing around these days, perhaps in ignorance.

No, blunt is good! I like it blunt. Thanks for persevering. Your thoughts are very on point in many regards.

I thought about cutting out exposition. I definitely feel like I'm going to have to scale back and keep the bare necessities and work on flow (but only once I get words down on paper because staring at blank page isn't fun). I can think of a couple of areas where it's kind of obvious padding that can be cut, but there are other areas I think are hugely important for setup. Now maybe I'm completely off but I see two levels of suspense... without exposition, a lot of the action becomes "what are they doing?" With a lot of background info, my aim was always to make someone ask "Why are doing they that?" But yes, it doesn't always make for smooth reading and that's what I need to work on. I think my fear is that I'm being too vague, but maybe that is, like waz said, underestimating the reader.

That said, with pacing issues and all, this is my interpretation of space opera as a genre. My "mission statement" has always been about characters and their affiliations first. However, I'm getting into some stabby action now and shooty action soon. I don't know why I do this, but I remember a long time ago reading the blog of some agent and she wasn't too fond of battle-as-opening-scenes mainly because she didn't have a sympathetic character to root for at that point in the book. That notion stuck with me, so I always want to make my characters a little bit human before I send them off to kill one another. In the same way that I actually think the beach landing scene in Saving Private Ryan is overrated... the first time I watched it, I couldn't tell apart any of the characters except for Tom Hanks because Tom Hanks. All I knew was to root for the US Army because Nazis r bad and just look how they're massacring us ahh. It's mostly big, loud and shocking, and while that does wonders for the crowd they're marketing to, that kind of filmmaking is the main reason why I prefer The Thin Red Line to just about every other WW2 movie, and Terrence Malick to a ton of contemporary directors.

I know this has to be my problem lol but what you described about Wheel of Time sounds glorious. I've heard conflicting things though. My sister's ex loved the entirety of TWoT mostly because it was pretty lore heavy and intricate and he's a sucker for that, but a friend of mine says the same thing as you: TWoT gets full of itself and stops moving, etc. When I was younger, I watched LoTR and was all for killing Uruk Hai and stuff, but *recently* watching the extended edition of Fellowship and Towers, I was really intrigued the politics of Middle Earth and backstory. Changing of tastes, I suppose. Thank you, Game of Thrones :P

On the writing front, I watched some people online get into a drag-out brawl over the definition of literary fiction. The main thing is, yes, the focus on prose (which I suck at and don't try or try too hard... then bam! Purple.), tone, themes, and characters. A lot of straight up lit fic is really subdued, slice-of-life in many ways. When you have literary sci fi, it's commercial ideas written in a literary way; I just checked out what wiki has to say about all this, and for the most part, those are the major things that come up during a workshop. 

At its core, I've always intended for Nostos to be a character study, so I find the amount of explosions and shooting in the first season surprisingly too much. I don't know if you watch Mad Men, but the characterization in that show is amazing. There is so much drama to be mined from the smallest of gestures, the things characters say, and the power each character has over one another, then on top of that, they explain why the characters are the way they are. Even though Don Draper's the protag, he is a despicable person, yet we get glimpses into his childhood to explain why he's so screwed up. His subordinates loathe him, but respect his creative genius. He's been losing his grip over six seasons, and yet, I'd be hard pressed to tell you exactly what the show is about.

Welp, thanks again. Your opinion means a lot to me, and I'll keep working on moving my people. Even though my characters are tortured and angsty sometimes, I mean for it to be fun to read. 

On the topic of character study, the prologue has two winners: Athus, and the chieftain. Athus is the one character I was really interested in, as the chieftain to a lesser extent, but dear Lord, do not ask me why. What I just noticed as I said that is that those two characters receive no exposition.

That's all the constructive crit I can give in regards to how well you've succeeded at making this a character study. :P

@flash - Nah, just read how you want to read it. I consider all views important so I need the critical voice that proclaims "this isn't fun enough... more fun could be had here." I was gonna say Athus and the chieftain shouldn't be paid any attention to, but I realized that would be lying. edit: Also Athus says like two things! Why latch onto him?!

@foolz - Wellll, yeah, wiki, but it's general enough for me to reference without digging up handbooks. My fiction prof had his own acronym but he was more about imagery and other poetic stuff.

Well, it is true that your writing style is significantly less "focused" than the other works I've read here. I don't mind because I have a good attention span and like to bathe in detail. It's always a good idea to cut "filler" though. I've noticed recently that a lot of your episodes repeat the "higher ups of the Coalition suck and are corrupt and totalitarian" theme and it's getting on my nerves. This might be because so many main characters seem to be downtrodden underdogs of some variety or the other. 

The main exception seems to be Mareus himself, but he's no Coalition guy. :P Also clearly not very ambitious, unquestioningly loyal, rigid and rules-abiding yet doesn't hestitate to act casual and friendly with people of higher social stations or nice and generous to those of lower stations... obviously based off Maximus from Gladiator. Though I suspect the similarities will end after he goes to meet this very important Dominion figure for an unusual occasion. *cough*

How does Crash and co recognize the Coalition so quickly and act so casual when they confirm who they are? If he grew up as a child in Mergence ruins you'd think that he would see the Coalition as being a lot more "legendary" and dangerous considering what all of the people he grew up with would have told him. The only other foreign faction they would have encountered are the Dominion who put them down there in the first place. How exactly would Crash develop a personality that allowed him to trust complete strangers so quickly?

Okay, I see your concerns. They're definitely more than fair and I'm struggling between practicality vs aesthetic as well. Why put them in tents when they could probably build really snazzy field housing? There are some conventions where I have my own qualms with as well, but we'll see if it gets so bad I have to iron them out. 

When you say "primitive culture," that's my stumbling block. What makes a culture primitive (even if they possess decent if not better technology in some regards)? Was it what we talked about ages ago, the morality of the collective people? I'm really curious because while the Dominion is kind of backwards, there's this parallel between them and the Coalition when it comes to politics... this is just a huge coincidence, but I was hanging out with my friends last week and Gladiator came on, the part where Commodus rides into Rome. I remember reading that Ridley Scott was hugely inspired by Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will (1935), modeling the legionaire formation after the Nazi rally, the Reichseagle and Roman eagle, etc; Hitler adored the Romans, to little surprise. Just some of my thoughts, but I'd definitely like to see your take on the question of culture.

When we say "space Romans," are you saying these people aren't advanced enough to wield futuristic weaponry? I'm hesitant to bring this up lol but when I envision the Dominion, I do it to the point of alien races in something like the Marvel universe's Asgard (but not totally OP) or John Carter's sky people (not a baaaad film). Their motivations are totally medieval, but they have badass weapons and fly ships and stuff. For example, in my case, the Dominion's sarissae/blades aren't just straight up wood and metal. The cop out answer (and one I might be going with lol) is alien metal that is extremely dense and can melt through weaker armour. Is that still too advanced for your perception of the Dominion, or is that a little more grounded? The tech-hoarding thing is interesting, and I'll put some thought into that.

Thanks, and there's a new chapter up (has nothing to do with the above sadly lol). At your convenience.

Sharpie125

That changes things a bit. I was actually getting the impression that they were using ol' iron and bronze stuff. Well, even if the material of their blades is hella strong, the ability of the blade (I assume that you mean "melt through" figuratively) to pierce things depends on how sharp it is, how tough the target is and how much momentum it has. Making a blade sharper makes it more likely to dull/break, but I guess their super metal (btw typing this reminded me of Brutal Legend) should mitigate this problem.

If these guys are also way stronger and tougher than humans, the whole "fighting with spears and sword" thing could actually work. It just isn't rational for them to keep using that style of combat because being stronger and tougher also allows you to just use bigger, heavier, better guns. But if you are modelling them after those kinds of civs, then "rationality" kind of goes out the window anyway. They are written for fantasy rather than science fiction.

How do I identify a primitive culture? Even with spaceships and super metal these guys take slaves, appear to have a very unequal and hierarchical society, are very militaristic, .etc. Normally, the nations that are culturally advanced are technologically advanced and vice versa. I'm just going to refer to what modern people use to classify nations as "advanced" and "primitive".

We usually think of advanced cultures as those that are strongly meritocratic yet socially equitable, democratic, prioritize peace, stability, low levels of violence and high standards of living for as many people as possible, have decent and well-balanced education systems.... so the Dominion probably doesn't qualify to us even if they are far beyond us technologically.

Of course, if you asked the actual Romans who were militaristic, anti-intellectual, brutal and elitist to the extreme (probably why Hitler liked them as you said), modern humanity would be culturally regressed and the Dominion would be at the height of sophistication and achievement.

Tyrone said, beside her, on which where youre referring to. Some of us come from two very different walks of life.Sharpie125

A man was already sitting at the counter with a bottle of beer in between his palms, and he was dressed in a naval uniform that matched Tenants.Sharpie125

They wear their navies when they have grubby dinners down in slums?

He realized that ___ never wanted to feel satisfied in being here, never wanted to settle for this place.Sharpie125

he clutched his helmet underneath his arm and did his best to ignore what was clearly as personal conversationSharpie125

Well, it is true that your writing style is significantly less "focused" than the other works I've read here. I don't mind because I have a good attention span and like to bathe in detail. It's always a good idea to cut "filler" though. I've noticed recently that a lot of your episodes repeat the "higher ups of the Coalition suck and are corrupt and totalitarian" theme and it's getting on my nerves. This might be because so many main characters seem to be downtrodden underdogs of some variety or the other. Barbariser

Villainous yes, corrupt maybe not so. I think what's so interesting (to myself again lol) about writing the Tenant/Viviana plot is that I can give the Coalition a better image and give them a more human side (compared to Stone's minions). As my intention stands, most or all characters will undergo some sort of transformation over a period of time and redemption is not out of the question. On that same note, those who you might find most virtuous, well, there's no way to go but down.

The aforementioned theme is prevalent I think because while I was sometimes struggling to come up with a universal theme for the series, I realized towards the end, that's the idea that kind of drove all the flashbacks and whatnot. Everyone wants nothing more than to go home (nostoi), but over the course of the season, you pick up that home isn't really desirable and actually kind of sucks. When I was considering having season 1 standalone (leaving out the entirety of the muddy, bloated setup for the rest of the series) it was supposed to end on Arturo's last order to take them home, and the rest is silence.

This time around, there's a huge influence from listening to hours of Dan Carlin's history podcast. That's why I asked you about primitive cultures and whatnot. I know it's kind of taking a long time to get to, but when I sit down to plan and outline, there's decidedly a The New World, age of exploration vibe going on with everything. Guns, Germs, and Steel + indigenous issues meets the fall of Rome? Maybe.

The main exception seems to be Mareus himself, but he's no Coalition guy. :P Also clearly not very ambitious, unquestioningly loyal, rigid and rules-abiding yet doesn't hestitate to act casual and friendly with people of higher social stations or nice and generous to those of lower stations... obviously based off Maximus from Gladiator. Though I suspect the similarities will end after he goes to meet this very important Dominion figure for an unusual occasion. *cough* Barb

Hey, maybe they're just a bunch of cool guys and they're going to get together to have a party and hang out and be friends and stuff. 

 

How does Crash and co recognize the Coalition so quickly and act so casual when they confirm who they are? If he grew up as a child in Mergence ruins you'd think that he would see the Coalition as being a lot more "legendary" and dangerous considering what all of the people he grew up with would have told him. The only other foreign faction they would have encountered are the Dominion who put them down there in the first place. How exactly would Crash develop a personality that allowed him to trust complete strangers so quickly? Barb

Not quiiite spoiler territory, but I said there are different resistance groups with conflicting endgames. And so Regina Frye and Locke's group including Faith (it's not a surprise they are Mergence operatives, I hope) would have their own plans that wouldn't include Crash's group and vice versa. I almost see it like having different bands of survivors in The Walking Dead. But I do not think Mergence view Coalition too poorly, as you'll see later on what led to their downfall (the Dwarves delved too deep in the mines of Moria, yadda), and they're actually counting on Coalie support. But here's where the manipulation game begins.

That changes things a bit. I was actually getting the impression that they were using ol' iron and bronze stuff. Well, even if the material of their blades is hella strong, the ability of the blade (I assume that you mean "melt through" figuratively) to pierce things depends on how sharp it is, how tough the target is and how much momentum it has. Making a blade sharper makes it more likely to dull/break, but I guess their super metal (btw typing this reminded me of Brutal Legend) should mitigate this problem.

If these guys are also way stronger and tougher than humans, the whole "fighting with spears and sword" thing could actually work. It just isn't rational for them to keep using that style of combat because being stronger and tougher also allows you to just use bigger, heavier, better guns. But if you are modelling them after those kinds of civs, then "rationality" kind of goes out the window anyway. They are written for fantasy rather than science fiction. Barb

Right, that's my fault lol. Though I write "steel," the one convention I needed to keep reminding myself was that you need to take it on a whim that this, like other fantasy stuff, is more like a translation. Steel refers to whatever resource I just don't want to name because it'll probably end up sounding stupid. And on the subject of projectile weaponry, that's kind of my thought process as well. It's still combustion like firearms, just different alien elements to create a harder hitting reaction. But it's still up in the air--whatever serves the plot lol.

The gun issue is pretty fascinating to me. I'm not totally opposed to having the Dominion use big power weapons like in District 9 (brzzzap-head-like-a-watermelon-splat) but there's something oddly compelling about them favouring blades and hand weaponry. I was playing Napoleon Total War a couple of months back and it's just astounding that you have people charging at each other with bayonets while dudes are lined up and shooting at you. You pretty much have to win skirmishes by being able to break their lines and rout their formation. That's more or less the mindset behind the soldiers of the Dominion, in my mind. The only difference is, their armour and shields are super effective. We'll leave mechanized warfare and aerial support out of the equation for the time being...

How do I identify a primitive culture? Even with spaceships and super metal these guys take slaves, appear to have a very unequal and hierarchical society, are very militaristic, .etc. Normally, the nations that are culturally advanced are technologically advanced and vice versa. I'm just going to refer to what modern people use to classify nations as "advanced" and "primitive".

We usually think of advanced cultures as those that are strongly meritocratic yet socially equitable, democratic, prioritize peace, stability, low levels of violence and high standards of living for as many people as possible, have decent and well-balanced education systems.... so the Dominion probably doesn't qualify to us even if they are far beyond us technologically.

Of course, if you asked the actual Romans who were militaristic, anti-intellectual, brutal and elitist to the extreme (probably why Hitler liked them as you said), modern humanity would be culturally regressed and the Dominion would be at the height of sophistication and achievement. Barb

Interesting. I think it's gonna be cool to see how this might unfold because if we go by extreme allegory, the Dominion seems like it should be worshipped by the Coalition. That would certainly shake things up, eh?

They wear their navies when they have grubby dinners down in slums? Barb

Daiga enjoys his stature as a reminder for how far he's come; Tenant does not share that view. But it's not too different than seeing a member of the armed forces in uniform now, even in the crappiest hoods. I'd say opinion is generally favourable towards active or former servicemen, unless you're in an extremely anti-war left-wing town in America.

Villainous yes, corrupt maybe not so. I think what's so interesting (to myself again lol) about writing the Tenant/Viviana plot is that I can give the Coalition a better image and give them a more human side (compared to Stone's minions). As my intention stands, most or all characters will undergo some sort of transformation over a period of time and redemption is not out of the question. On that same note, those who you might find most virtuous, well, there's no way to go but down.

The aforementioned theme is prevalent I think because while I was sometimes struggling to come up with a universal theme for the series, I realized towards the end, that's the idea that kind of drove all the flashbacks and whatnot. Everyone wants nothing more than to go home (nostoi), but over the course of the season, you pick up that home isn't really desirable and actually kind of sucks. When I was considering having season 1 standalone (leaving out the entirety of the muddy, bloated setup for the rest of the series) it was supposed to end on Arturo's last order to take them home, and the rest is silence.

This time around, there's a huge influence from listening to hours of Dan Carlin's history podcast. That's why I asked you about primitive cultures and whatnot. I know it's kind of taking a long time to get to, but when I sit down to plan and outline, there's decidedly a The New World, age of exploration vibe going on with everything. Guns, Germs, and Steel + indigenous issues meets the fall of Rome? Maybe.Sharpie125

Nah, there's definitely corruption around. This society's political leadership is masked by a veil of secrecy that is held up by a class of political officers whose powers can only be likened to commissars or stasi, there is a maniacal dictator in charge, capitalists rely on mercenary groups to defend their interests, cronyism seems to be practically everywhere, .etc. Make Imperators "human" or not, they're still instruments of political suppression.

The problem with this theme is that it is rather overbearing, and also doesn't come with a side dose of good aspects to balance it out. Maybe with Daiga there is a hint of that, but he's looking to be a one episode character. Why do characters want to go home? Because it's better than being shot at in a half functioning ship by space pirates?

Adding a colonialism aspect to it adds spice, but as far as I see there aren't any primitive natives in vast foreign lands to enslave and exploit, unless you count the ones with energy weapons who completely invert the balance of technology and firepower that colonists had over their conquests.

Not quiiite spoiler territory, but I said there are different resistance groups with conflicting endgames. And so Regina Frye and Locke's group including Faith (it's not a surprise they are Mergence operatives, I hope) would have their own plans that wouldn't include Crash's group and vice versa. I almost see it like having different bands of survivors in The Walking Dead. But I do not think Mergence view Coalition too poorly, as you'll see later on what led to their downfall (the Dwarves delved too deep in the mines of Moria, yadda), and they're actually counting on Coalie support. But here's where the manipulation game begins.Sharpie125

Seems odd to "rely" on a plan that requires an old enemy or rival to travel to a place that hardly anyone has ever been. But given that they don't seem to have many options and yet they're capable of going back to the Milky Way, I suppose that they've got just the right mix of desperation and ability to pull it off. Although the first reaction of the Coalition was to try and wipe out all traces of their team, so it almost failed.

Right, that's my fault lol. Though I write "steel," the one convention I needed to keep reminding myself was that you need to take it on a whim that this, like other fantasy stuff, is more like a translation. Steel refers to whatever resource I just don't want to name because it'll probably end up sounding stupid. And on the subject of projectile weaponry, that's kind of my thought process as well. It's still combustion like firearms, just different alien elements to create a harder hitting reaction. But it's still up in the air--whatever serves the plot lol.

The gun issue is pretty fascinating to me. I'm not totally opposed to having the Dominion use big power weapons like in District 9 (brzzzap-head-like-a-watermelon-splat) but there's something oddly compelling about them favouring blades and hand weaponry. I was playing Napoleon Total War a couple of months back and it's just astounding that you have people charging at each other with bayonets while dudes are lined up and shooting at you. You pretty much have to win skirmishes by being able to break their lines and rout their formation. That's more or less the mindset behind the soldiers of the Dominion, in my mind. The only difference is, their armour and shields are super effective. We'll leave mechanized warfare and aerial support out of the equation for the time being...Sharpie125

The difference is that Napoleonic muskets have lousy fire rates and are about as accurate as a pistol (the game actually makes them more dangerous than they really were). To defeat armour that is proof to bullets (which they would need) you need very sharp blades and/or very physically strong users, exotic weapons or more powerful guns. I suppose that the Dominion's style of breaking isn't reliant on lining up into a few ranks, walking till they're a few dozen feet away and charging the enemy?

Interesting. I think it's gonna be cool to see how this might unfold because if we go by extreme allegory, the Dominion seems like it should be worshipped by the Coalition. That would certainly shake things up, eh?Sharpie125

Well, the whole "admiring cultures that are even more extreme and hardcore than you" doesn't extend to cultures that are actually in conflict with you. After all, Hitler didn't admire and respect the Soviets until they were literally at Berlin's gates, at which point he actually believed that Slavs were the true master race and Nords were not. :P

Daiga enjoys his stature as a reminder for how far he's come; Tenant does not share that view. But it's not too different than seeing a member of the armed forces in uniform now, even in the crappiest hoods. I'd say opinion is generally favourable towards active or former servicemen, unless you're in an extremely anti-war left-wing town in AmericaSharpie125

I'm not American so I have no idea about how they perceive uniformed men. I have never seen anyone in uniform outside of their actual duties in Malaysia. I was more commenting about the fact that this hood has a reputation for being rather hostile, especially to people of higher social status, and in their society I would expect that wearing the uniforms of high-level navy offices would make them seem relatively "established".