BDOTM ~ Akatsuki vs. Espada ~ Cross Dimensional War!

Akatsuki vs. Espada

Current thread stage: DEBATE 1

This thread is a multi-stage thread. I will post when the stage changes, but you can also check first post to see current stage, as I will update it.

Stage 1: DISCUSSION. During this stage, you merely discuss their abilities and quallities. What kinds of things they have in their advantage or disadvantage, and how they might influence the fight, or the behaviour of the encounter. During this stage, you will discuss the abilities and quallities that will effect it. At this point, do not even try to talk about who would win or lose, that part is completely irrelevant at this time. We are only discussing the character, their personality, their strengths, their weaknesses. What abilities they have, that sort of thing.

Stage 2: DEBATE 1. This is the first debate stage. During this stage, you may debate over the traits we discussed during the Discussion stage. During this stage, you will logically debate how the quallities we discovered int he Discussion stage, will interact with each other, and against each other. Again, at this point, it does not matter who would win or lose, that doesnt apply here. Also, this is different than discussion stage because in the first stage, we are discussing what they have. In this stage, we are debating over how those quallities will interact with each other. How the quallities of one contestant will effect, influence, or react to, another contestants quallities. This includes how they interact with their own team mates, if applicable, as well as how they interact with their enemy.

Stage 3: Debate 2. During this stage, we will go through and decide how the battle would start, what kind of attacks they'd do, if they'd talk, what kind of conversation would happen, how they would interact. This time, instead of discussing how the quallities effect each other, we'r actually deciding how this battle went down, step by step. During this stage, a host will guide it step by step and everyone will input their thoughts how that part will go down.

Stage 4: Vote. At this stage, we will vote who will win and who will lose. Who will live, who will perish. Every time, a host will state what all is up to be voted on, and you will POST your vote, and your reason.

Rules: These rules will be obeyed at all times, in every single post in this thread.

1. Obey the gamespot TOS at all times.

2. Obey the gotei 13 laws at all times.

3. No arguements, there will be debates in here, but it will be logical.

4. Leave your fanism before you even enter this thread. You will debate or state your point logically and give a logical reason. This includes during the voting stage. I reserve the right to kick out a vote I can determine and prove was fanism. This is the reason why you are required to state your reason. I will be fair and logical when I decide if a vote was fanism. I should not have to kick a vote often if at all.

5. Have fun! This whole process is for the sake of fun in and of itself. So try not to ruin the fun of others, and of course, have fun yourself!

Hold up! Nooby Espada?

The biggest advantage for Team Esapda is Barragan. The rest of them can go take a nap if all I care. Barragan has his own orbit. 

both are elite in what they do each one having there own special abilities and techniques

but Akatsuki has the upper hand here they specialize in group missions which makes them create team based techniques and bonds are created within the teams and the other team mates while the espada have they have fraccion which is personal soldiers but dont really have a bond within the other espada members they sorta have grudges like ulquiorra and grimmjow or noitorra and nel 

unless they are able to fight with their fraccion , akatsuki has the upper hand in this battle 

1. Keep fanism and namecalling out of this thread, or you will be forbidden from further participation.

2. Pay attention to the rules posted above. You are all jumping the gun and trying to vote. Persist with "voting" and I will ban you from BDOTM. Read the rules, read what stage we'r on. Stick to the topic at hand.

3. This is Akatsuki vs. Espada. So no frasshion, to answer your question.

Ok, now that thats out of the way, lets try to resume a logical discussion of facts and debate. :)

This topic is a win

One main advantage i see for the akatsuki side it pain and his many forms. Having all of them out at once would be quite the advantage in my opinion.

P

Yes. Can anyone explain how anybody on the Akatsuki side can defeat Barragan? Please answer that. Let's remember that Naruto doesn't have the "same time of tools" to defeated Barragan. Plus, there's timing. Only person I can think of that stand a chance against Barragan is probably Itachi or Madara. However, Barragan not going let you fool him again. sfkm2

Pein , Madara , itachi , all have the abilities to crash barragan . Itachi alone will do that with his sharringan . He can do what aizen can do . Illusions . Both pein and madara . Barragan followed aizen because he couldn't beat his illusions right ? thats what pein and madara use

By the time espadas (mainly Szayel) figure out that sharringan is from the eyes, one of espada (Probably Grimmjow, Nnortia, or Ulquiorra) is crazy enough to jerk their eyes out. Plus. By the time they are trying to "release" the technique, Barragan or any espada would be right next to them. All Barragan have to do is touch them and it is all over.

Bleach speed is totally different from Naruto Speed. 

Just think about it. Aizen's illusion have Yamamoto capture but you think that's going stop him? By the time Yamamoto got near Aizen, GAME OVER! (except WW jump in) Just because they have their illusions up doesn't mean anything. Plus, it takes alot to defeat the top 4 espadas. Oh yeah. 5. I forgot Yammy and his rage advantage. 

Pein and his nutz house brothers can get destroy by Yammy. 

Wait! Pein , Madara, Itach, all have ablities to crash Barragan??????????? Pein? Why would Pein pull or get near Barragan? To fight Barragan, it have to be long range. If I remember, all peins are all close combat fighters. To fool Barragan, you have to be smarter than Aizen. 

Kisame and Halibel cancel out each other. Water vs Water. 

Yammy can go all day with other members. 

I am not too familiar with Akatsuki but Espada gets my vote.

Akatsuki has some awesome abilities but Espada as a whole is unique.

I know some already said this but how can any of them beat Barragan.

Ulqoirra has two released forms which makes him quite deadly.

Grimmjow doesn't like being told that often do things that upsets Aizen.

Szayel is very intelligent that those ninjas better bring their A game to win.

Yammy can get stronger in his sleep and once he transforms the longer his angry the stronger he will become.

Itachi and Madara are deadly because of their eyes.

I will have to look up on the Akatsuki later but regarding on the tactical advantage of Sharigan vs. Respira it's a quintessential stalemate once it goes down. Sure Barragan will be trapped in an illusion BUT he's no idiot. Arrogant but not stupid. He could surround himself with Respira so that Itachi and Madara would have severe trouble having anyone get to him without rotting away.

Now I'll probably refine this later but from reading things above, unlike Aizen's hypnosis abilities of his zanpakuto I see no indication of how anyone could disrupt the Espada's sense of spiritual pressure since the anime physics behind it is completely alien to the Naruto universe. Sure the Akatsuki could try to lead the other Espada into the Respira but the emanation of the reiatsu given off will obviously be a big red alert to the other Espada. If anything Yammy MIGHT fall for it and end up almost hitting the Respira if goaded enough, but that doesn't prohibit Barragan from retracting it or moving out of the way so Yammy isn't rotted away.

Furthermore concerning the anime physics, any being with a strong reiatsu can almost literally handicap and crush those with much weaker or even no reiatsu if they channel and direct it as such. Chakra, as similar as it can be to reiatsu, is not the same. Sure it is much like the Shinigami reiryoku in which it is a reserve of the body's energy, and is replenished in the same ways as reiatsu, but isn't exuded from one's body like spiritual pressure is. As the Akatsuki have abilities that handicap, one could imagine what would happen if they all crushed the area around them at once by exuding spiritual pressure.

Also in regards to the teamwork capabilities the Akatsuki and Espada are both united within their organizations. Not completely as either side has a sort of "power-hungry" or "I'm dominant" point-of-view, with some exceptions to that rule, obviously. The Espada may not like having to take orders from each other but each one of them realizes that it's either them or the Akatsuki that go down. The Espadas will work much like a horde in essence.

As for the Akatsuki; what little I've seen of them anime-wise I've noticed that some, if not all, have a tendency to either want leadership over the others or to backstab/one-up each other in some shape or form. Still it's either them or the Espada so they'll work more like allies and combo probably better than the Espada, but they lack the similarity of abilities to blend them more effectively, unlike the Espada (this is referring to the powers of Hollows and Arrancar alike and not necessarily Zanpakuto).

I'm done for now and I hope I've been helpful. :D

marty, thats treading thin ice, dont say who you go for, this isnt in the poll stage, as I already warned once.

Other than that. This is much better. very well done, you all have very good points of view.

old man, you said something about one or tow of them being immortal. if so, that actually makes this an even more epic fight because they could go keep barrigan busy, and since they are immortal, simply aging them wont be enough to inflict any kind of actual change.

as for leading the espada into barrigan's aging ability so they kill each other accidentally, there is a chance that it might not work on uliquiorra, technically speaking, if he can infinately regenerate, (so long as his internal organs dont take too much damage at 1 time), then its possible that he might never age no matter what.

just a few quick theories to contribute. :) good job all, keep this up.

I'm sorry ebbon but I have to point somethingo ut against you; he doesnt simply "cause old age", he accelerates the aging process. Period. The reason this infallibly works against all shinigami, arrancar, etc. is because they are saying that even the powerful shinigami age. even someonel ike old man yamma age, its just that the stronger ones slow down aging by a large ammount. although aizen is supposedly properly immortal now, we dont actually know, kisuke treated him like he couldnt die and sealed him anyway, probably because it was too risky to assume he'd stay "dead".

Anyway. Anything barrigan's power touches, accelerates in time. This means. If one were completely unaging, accelerating their time would do nothing.

Except from barragan , is there anyone else worthy to fight against akatsuki ? All i can see is barragan this and barragan that...Azaru32

I agree.. yam might able give few of them hard time.. 

He is too dumb to do anything right lolAzaru32

well that true but he got power... :/

I'm sorry ebbon but I have to point somethingo ut against you; he doesnt simply "cause old age", he accelerates the aging process. Period. The reason this infallibly works against all shinigami, arrancar, etc. is because they are saying that even the powerful shinigami age. even someonel ike old man yamma age, its just that the stronger ones slow down aging by a large ammount. although aizen is supposedly properly immortal now, we dont actually know, kisuke treated him like he couldnt die and sealed him anyway, probably because it was too risky to assume he'd stay "dead".

Anyway. Anything barrigan's power touches, accelerates in time. This means. If one were completely unaging, accelerating their time would do nothing.

daorack

True but I pointed it out for the sake of the descrepancy going on here.

As for Hidan I am doing some study of the Akatsuki at the moment. Whereas he cannot die via time aging his body and would seem impervious to Barragan's attacks, he is still subject to death via lack of nutrients. It's elaborate but Barragan's time age dilation could cause Hidan's cells to use up their nutrients faster. COULD; not WILL.

And agreed Barragan is being overexamined. We forget the competency of Szayel, even if he's #8 and isn't the strongest physical fighter. But he can still clone the Akatsuki as well as heal himself via his Fraccion. For the sake of this debate he'd bring them regardless, albiet altered into may capsules that he activates and have instant Fraccion for healing and cannon fodder. As for the cloning he can keep producing more and more clones. It is possible eventually he might catch Itachi or Madara by some surprise.

That is provided they maintain Guy's concept of "You can tell what an opponent will do by watching their feet."

grimmjow has insane speed in his resurrection, AND in his sealed state. can the akatsuki keep up with it?

nnoitora is cocky and will want to do one on one fight. who would he choose?

I have a feeling stark will want to go off somewhere and practically nap till he's needed...

what if Szayel also coppied the other arrancar?!

grimmjow has insane speed in his resurrection, AND in his sealed state. can the akatsuki keep up with it?

nnoitora is cocky and will want to do one on one fight. who would he choose?

I have a feeling stark will want to go off somewhere and practically nap till he's needed...

what if Szayel also coppied the other arrancar?!

daorack

In Grimmjow's case, as well as with other Espada, the Akatsuki might be forced to focus on one or two Espada at once. Grimmjow's speed will be a tough customer and not only that, but let's not forget his Desgarron ability too, which DOES somewhat have him stay in one place to improve his accuracy. During use of his Desgarron or even charging a Cero could leave him open to attack. That leaves chance for him to be singled out and incapacitated.

Nnoitora might attempt to go after someone like Hidan for the sheer fact that he wants to show off how tough he is by defeating the immortal ninja. Hopefully his Heirro is strong enough to withstand Hidan's attacks. However I suppose that if it isn't then Nnoitra will be put in a spot to use his extra arms.

Starrk will draw attention nonetheless, most likely from Madara who will follow him. I can't be sure how that will end but Starrk will suggest they take a nap or relax or the like and let the others fight as they wish. Madara might then try to coax Starrk to help the Akatsuki, to which Starrk will decline. The guy may be lax but he sticks to his friends and allies. Starrk will also probably suggest that they pretend to fight too. :lol:

Szayel cloning the other Espada is a dangerous concept indeed, to imagine multiple Barragan or Grimmjows. Hehehe or a ton of Yammys. What if he clones himself and focuses on cloning himself over and over and over again and then cloning the others exponentially?

Wow ... an army of Yammys is simply OVERKILL , slightly possible , but cheating.

But here is an idea : What if Itachi will catch him with the Genjutsu "Tsukuyomi" to absolutely break the possibility of cloning . Seriously , spending years in a Genjutsu while in the world only 1(one) minute passes , perhaps even less can make you absolutely insane.

Itachi might get an opening while using the tehnique , even if it is just 1 min . Sombody ,doesn't really matter whom , can come and smack him , the tehnique is still more then enough to break 1 of the espada , but probably that will be it's limit. Also I think using the Sharingan and guessing the strenght of the espadas he would prefer getting rid of the cloning tehnique.

After that his chances of survival are small , he is after all weak already , using the Sharingan made him almost blind anyhow , perhaps in a last effort he uses Amaterasu to burn Yammy away . But I expect Yammy using Resurection at the right time and getting rid of the wounds.

Come to think of it ... Resurection is a good surprise and "healing" ability . Ulquiorra has and advantage of 2 Resurections , and Yammy aswell if he can get mad enough.

Pain will be a pain in the butt , using a lot of tehniques , even Summoning huge mobs . That big dog thing that can clone himself and has many heads will be a problem . I actually forgot how it was beaten :P ... but Szayel Aporro might get a solution for everything .

Edit: If Szayel gets killed/incapacitated/whatever from Itachi at the start , it will be difficult for the other Espada

Ok , Debate . I think my previous post was mostly debate , so I'm sory if I did it wrong .

---

Here is the idea .

Yammy starts fighting with Madara , but he will act more like TOBI . Yammy will fight him pretty much seriously and start using cero , but not using resurection yet. Tobi will dodge , as expected , most of the atacks , than reply with some funny things ,for expample : " My hair grows quicker than you can punch " or " Was that ball thing you called Cero actually a healing orb? Cuz the flowers seem to like it. " And so on untill Yammy gets angry . Perhaps after Yammy gets angry enough and has the size of the planet Madara will use Sharingan and will start fighting .

I didn;t saw ( but i might have missed it) posts regarding Deidara ( I'm really sorry if I didn't notice it and it was there ). He will probably look at Madara playing with Yammy and start shouting at him . In the meantime Grimmjow appears and atacks Deidara , but gets trapped in a (disgusting) clay trap , that will explode. He will get angry and will start fighting Deidara , but I expect Grimmjow to win because he is fast . Regarding the tehnique with nano clay explosives , Deidara might turn the fight to his favor .

I expect a fair fight ( more or less ) between Hidan and Baragan . Two "invincible" antagonists fight eachother might be fun. I really don't know how Baragan might age Hidan , or Hidan be able to aproach Baragan. This might just be an EPIC fight. But I would expect in some moment that Baragan cuts Hidan's head of , and think it is over. I expect also that somehow Hidan can reach Baragan's core with his "scythe" and then let himself be aged.

--

That is all for today ^.^

Wow ... an army of Yammys is simply OVERKILL , slightly possible , but cheating.

But here is an idea : What if Itachi will catch him with the Genjutsu "Tsukuyomi" to absolutely break the possibility of cloning . Seriously , spending years in a Genjutsu while in the world only 1(one) minute passes , perhaps even less can make you absolutely insane.

Itachi might get an opening while using the tehnique , even if it is just 1 min . Sombody ,doesn't really matter whom , can come and smack him , the tehnique is still more then enough to break 1 of the espada , but probably that will be it's limit. Also I think using the Sharingan and guessing the strenght of the espadas he would prefer getting rid of the cloning tehnique.

After that his chances of survival are small , he is after all weak already , using the Sharingan made him almost blind anyhow , perhaps in a last effort he uses Amaterasu to burn Yammy away . But I expect Yammy using Resurection at the right time and getting rid of the wounds.

Come to think of it ... Resurection is a good surprise and "healing" ability . Ulquiorra has and advantage of 2 Resurections , and Yammy aswell if he can get mad enough.

Pain will be a pain in the butt , using a lot of tehniques , even Summoning huge mobs . That big dog thing that can clone himself and has many heads will be a problem . I actually forgot how it was beaten :P ... but Szayel Aporro might get a solution for everything .

Edit: If Szayel gets killed/incapacitated/whatever from Itachi at the start , it will be difficult for the other Espada

optimuserik

If I may carry on from this discussion and add to the first-phase debate:

OVERKILL
(SQUISHEE SQUEAKIE?!)

1 - Yammy isn't even the one to be afraid of for overkill. Again try an army of Szayel's who clone each other and clone the other Espada and their clones at the same time? Or better yet: an army of other Espadas, although it's likely Barragan wouldn't let himself be cloned without a confirmation from Szayel that the clones would disappear or be destroyed at the end of it all.

GENJUTSU BAD JUJU
(I HAVE THE CURE TO WHAT AILS YOU)

2- If you haven't noticed, Szayel (As well as some of the other Espada) is somewhat insane, but more so vain and deluded. And the Genjutsu relies most on the strength of an opponent's will as well as some with huge physical strength can use that to break through the jutsu as well. The question is, instead of restraining Szayel himself, can the Tsukiyomi completely inhibit his abilities? Genjutsu deals with illusion, if I remember correctly, and as such if the jutsu can't keep Szayel from cloning himself so that he can be broken from the Genjutsu and who can still continue their work then it's a temporary, individual stall as well as a strain on the one who used the jutsu.

Also I thought the Sharingan gauges the extent of another's ability, not discern what techniques and powers they have. Plus if by "getting rid of the cloning technique" you mean eliminating Szayel; don't forget the "Gabriel" ability either. Szayel could very likely have implanted an embryo of reiatsu in anyone he clones as well as the clones and perhaps even other Akatsuki if he gets ahold of one of them. Of course that all depends on whether or not Szayel can be inhibited enough to prevent him from cloning anyone.

SHARINGAN DISCREPANCY
(IT CAN'T SEE US IF WE DON'T MOVE!!!)

3- Itachi does get weaker, but that doesn't mean he's helpless. The possibility to counter as well as trap multiple people in illusions. Therefore while enemies are trapped in illusions he may rest up some. But again unless he can somehow stop Szayel from cloning himself and freeing others from the illusions then it's mainly stalling. However as stated previously Yammy would be an easy target to manipulate with the Sharingan and use against the Espada, or in the case of Szayel, ONE Yammy would throw a monkey wrench into things. However I have misgivings about Barragan being able to fall victim to the Sharingan, as in Resurrection he's just bones and sees without eyes. Sharingan rely mostly on eye contact. I'm not sure about the Rinnegan but the Sharingan has a challenge in Barragan.

RESURRECTION & REGENERATION
( IS HE DEAD YET? )
(NO!!!)
( IS HE DEAD YET? )
(NO!!!)

4- Resurrection has that tendency to regenerate wounds, although it's not stated whether or not this FULLY regenerates wounds. Ulquiorra is the only Espada with quick regeneration as he really doesn't need strength when his body is the most compact of the Espada, despite Barragan appearing to be the shortest. Those muscles may be EFFICIENT and not need to be uber-Yammy-powerful. Plus the guy plays mind games and has speed on his side. And who knows? Maybe the switch from normal to Resurrection could break the hold of Sharingan and Rinnegan abilities?

PEIN'S PUPPY VS. SZAYEL CLONING
(THAT MADMAN IS EVERYWHERE)

5. Now Pein actually would pose a problem, from what I hear. He may be a very physical melee fighter, but if he can keep his techniques going then he could pose as much of a problem as Szayel. But then what happens if Szayel gets ahold of one and clones the dog? The Espada have the cunning to work together and do it, as long as Nnoitra doesn't have to work with Halibel ( :lol: ). But Barragan could still sweep the mobs away with his Respira, if needed. Plus I'm still not clear on the Rinnegan's abilities.

VOODOO DOLL VS. SHARINGAN
(HE'LL POKE YOUR EYES OUT, KID!!!)

6. It's hit or miss with Szayel vs. Itachi, proposing they do actually fight each other. However Szayel's cloning isn't the only problem. OOOOOHHH NO!!! We've got his Voodoo Doll technique too. Cloning Akatsuki? Take a voodoo doll and start breaking legs. Hell if Szayel clones Itachi the poor ninja might have his eyes stabbed out by a couple of Szayel Aporro fingers. Cloning Espada? Take a giant Yammy and crumble it down on top of one or two Akatsuki. Ninja's rely on mobility and a perhaps...10,000-pound man-ape-thing crushing down on top of you? Possible win for gravity, as I have found physics beats ninjas half the time. :lol:

HEIRRO VS. HIDAN
(WHERE'S THE KETCHUP?)

7. And despite anything do not forget the Espada have heirro, which makes their skin more akin to steel in hardness, as well as claws and such. Hidan's prized ability relies on him being able to get some flesh or a bit of the opponent in order to share the pain. What does he do if he can't cut their skin? He may HAVE to rely on jutsu or hope that he can get enough of a brief break to grab a bit of flesh from another battle. And if he were to grab Ulquiorra? The Espada's heart is dead. For lack of a better phrase, it might as well not exist. God then imagine Szayel running around with a mob of heartless Ulquiorra's with regeneration and psychological banter and all that. Depressing, but deadly.

ZOMMARI'S AMOR
(THERE'S A BAD JOKE IN HERE SOMEWHERE...)

8. By the way I'm amazed not even myself realized Zommari's part in all this. He's got his Brujeria with its Amor technique. He could try taking control of Akatsuki in his usual tactics and if he goes into Resurreccion and catches someone's head with an eye then he controls their whole body.

(The parts that came after this will be discussed later)

Sorry for the double-post, but THAT right there is why I'm the Text Wall God. :lol:

EDIT: However I will be breaking it up by suggestion so that it doesn't swallow anyone up or chase them away. *Facepalms* Sorry people got excited today.

Well , I honestly didn't expect anybody to be able to make such a huge post , you must really take all ideas out and I respect that .

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About the Genjutsu and eye-contact : In an early episode there was once when they tried not to watch the eyes . For explanation I must use a character that does not take part of the debate , I'm sorry . It is Naruto , who got cought by the genjustsu without eye-contact with Itachi . This can be used to confuse the whole Genjutsu theory , somebody WILL get traped in it without eye-contact from Itachi and do stupid things , there is Madara also , so there could be 2 victims ( not fatal , just temporal ilusions or who knows )

About the hard skin thing : Yes , their skin is hard to cut and everything , but the Shinigami ( captains + Ichigo +Ishida+Sado) managed to kill them . Conclusion 'not imposible to cut'. I know you didn't mean that it's imposible .

Furthermore , the espada really don't have a 'heart' , they are basically thoundands of Hollows that muched eachoter etc. and so they made one entity , but is still mostly a 'spirit' . BUT they can feel pain , in a not really important way , they feels it , too many explanations make everything just confusing . So the -pain sharing- skill might work . It needs to be tweaked so that it works for spirits too . Here is a dilema : does it work on spirits , or only on humans ?

The rinegan is a messed up eye tehnique that has too many functions . The most important one is what he uses with his clones : 'sharing the vision' , Every clone can see every clone's sight of vision + his own at the same time . Huge tactical advantage and such . The other thing is probably that he can learn and use MANY MANY Jutsu , to increase the eficiency he made the clones that he controls from a far away place with his 'Chakra' . I might have forgotten some aspects of rinegan , but these are the basic ones .

I came to a revelation while writing the rinegan explanation : HE CONTROLS THEM . Which means that he is hidden somewhere , but takes part of the fight . So there is a chance that somebody may find him during the batle and take him out , eliminating the ( more or less ) top enemy .

Regarding the catching and cloning of "the puppy" , those summons can be "canceled" at any time , with another scroll or whatever , so something like that can be prevented .

I still like Baragan vs Hidan :P

--

Note: I think Hidan needs blood , not flesh , that is how he got killed in he story ;-)

Note 2: There is a tehnique that Madara can use to quickly get all Akatsuki away from a 10,000 tons monster faling on them , it is caled something like "Body Flicker Tehnique" , he teleports in an instant without leaving a trace .

Observation: I didn't see Zetsu around the fight/discusion/debate ... that " Aloe Vera Bastard " might just hide somewhere and enjoy the show XD .

Observation 2 : Konan should also take part in the fight , those little paper things might not look like a big deal , but they are there . At least we should mention that she was killed in a humiliating way .

Annoyed observation: Pain (ペイン, Pein) , Pain = normal , 'literary' name , Pein = PHONETIC writing NOT HIS NAME . The Japanese have a nice way of speaking english (which I totaly like ) but the literary name should be kept .

Ok, to you big wall posters, a little request. This is a discussion. No need for writing a whole article in one post. I'm glad you have alot of ideas, but hang onto a few, make notes for yourself if you need to in order to remember them, but save some for later, to talk about. I want this to move forward, but I dont want you to burn out everything you'v got in one post.

Plus its harder on everyone else reading it. :P

I'm sorry , I use "quick reply" and the post 'seems' shorter than it actually is .

I prefer the inspiration coming on the way while I post , saving than rewriting will make me overthink it and decide to totally contradict myself in a certain moment .

But I think many many other , COMPLETELY unrelated options to our posts remain . After all , it is a fight between more or less 2 teams of 10 people/monsters/weirdos each .

We actually feel like pupet masters .................. Which reminds me .... ( the curse of inspiration XD )

Sasori with his pupets might do a few surprises along the batlefield. Especialy with the 'Iron Sand' tehnique . Not sure how much damage it will make on an espada , but a spear of iron-sand might pearce BIG Yammy without many chances of dodging .... he is HUGE in resurection , but maybe Sasori will not be alive until that resurection .

* Forces his post to end ....

*See you tomorow my inspiration... *I SAID STOP .... sight...

Yes I know about the romanized and phoenetic names and such but that's not the focus of the discussion. As long as you know WHO is being described and such there shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the clarifications I know I've slipped out of Naruto, which is interesting but I've torn my anime schedule apart.

As for the concept of heirro, the main reason Shinigami can cut it is because they're souls with attributes and abilities BEYOND the physical human capacity, whereas as shown in the storyline the strength of one's reiatsu can make or break the attempt at cutting a Hollow or Arrancar, as well as the fact that their Zanpakuto grow and develop with them which is why they require very synchronized training.

I realize that Ichigo is going to come up in this, but you have to remember he is descended from a Shinigami as well as is a Substitue Soul Reaper who has achieved Bankai. He may be young BUT he is basically the equivalent of a Captain in the Seireitei. To furthermore express that, the battle between him and Kenpachi also shows how the heirro can be circumvented by attuning yourself to an Arrancar's reiatsu and then adjusting your own to be "sharper."

I don't remember anyone being able to channel chakra in a similar way to be "sharper" although one particular ninja used his chakra to form around his blades and subtly extend his striking area. In the matter with cancelling a summoning; cancelling it may require that Pein does so before Szayel can get any DNA from it.

Plus with Arrancar anatomy wasn't there some spoof Mayuri did after an episode where he described it?

Those explanations from Mayuri are pretty much details , probably important , but mostly forgotten .

I do agree on the heirro concept , but since Chad could also kill a 'former' espada , I think it is posible also for ninja.

The problem in this all is the 'compatibility' of the 'power source' from the two anime/manga , chakra ls basicaly used for more or less 'spells' aka Justsu and it is limited and will not necesarly 'sharpen' the weapon ( except wind-type ), reiatsu on the other hand is not always used for 'spells' aka Kidou , it is mostly used to define the strenght of a character . The more/bigger it is , the more powerful an oponent is . Chakra doesn't make one powerful if it is big/much , it only makes them able to perform higher level and maintain more Jutsu . Often many persons with huge amount of chakra get beaten by ones with lower .

Edit: By this I mean that the ninja basicaly have NO reiatsu or absolutely minimum , so they would have no chances of fighting the arancar. Also , all ninja can die if a knife is thrown from a little kid and stabs them , but arancar would not even feel it

Anyhow it may be , if we think about it like this : Both are the source of powers . Then we can make the fight more fair .

But if we debate the absolute posibility and take into consideration all the compatibility isues than akatsuki will have little chances .

On the other hand if both are considered 'normal' human(like) beings , but they can keep their tehniques , the fight will take place as it should , with absolute equal chances of wining at the start of the battle . After that the strategy , oponent choosing , interference and such things will determine the POSIBLE ( they are MANY ) ways for the fight to end .

Edit 2 : So I say we should debate it like before , each atack has a chance to injure the oponent .

Chad is by standards human, but his powers are similar to that of a Hollow's. Not only that but his energy is more raw than focused, as explained and displayed by Shunsui in the Soul Society Arc. Not only that but in Hueco Mundo, Nnoitra even allowed Chad to hit him with as much as he could. With BOTH his El Directo and El Diablo activated, although I'm not sure which he struck Nnoitra with.

Similar with Ichigo and Kenpachi. They constantly exude reiatsu which is similar to heirro in essence. Ichigo found that he could cut Kenpachi after focusing the reiatsu. The question is: are some of the Akatsuki, like Hidan and Deidara, able to maintain focus with chakra in a similar manner to overcome the heirro?

Against Edit 2: I wasn't saying that chakra wouldn't affect the Arrancar because of reiatsu vs. chakra. For example taijutsu could be just as effective means of implementing and focusing one's chakra as would a Shinigami adjusting their reiatsu. In fact aside from that the other jutsus would really act much like Kido spells in actuality. There's a lot of potential for chakra to inflict damage but the main issue this sprung from was Hidan's strategy of hack-n-slash and try to cut the opponent, but having to resort to a very different strategy.

The idea of "absolutely equal" chances of winning are as about as non-existant as Barragan's "absolute" power in his Resurreccion. Every little thing tosses and turns the scales in either side's favor. So honestly there will rarely be a time where the scales are not tipped one way or the other.

Very wel said.

There's alot here that could tip the scales in the battle.

I'm interested in that multi-headed scyth. Who would fight that in a melee hack-and-slash situation?

Very wel said.

There's alot here that could tip the scales in the battle.

I'm interested in that multi-headed scyth. Who would fight that in a melee hack-and-slash situation?

daorack

The better question is, who wouldn't pin that out as a good target and go after it? Grimmjow? Nnoitra? Zommari? Yammy? Aaroniero?

Take your pick. :|

Sure Szayel, Halibel, Barragan and Starrk are MUCH more likely to hang back and watch things go on but those others are respectfully more likely to step up to Hidan with positive thoughts in mind.

Well yes . Hidan doesn't look like much from a distance . But they could be surprised about the imortality .

Regarding my 'everyone with equal chances' : I do know that baragan 'cheats' but it wasn't the point. My 'chances' was more like'Jutsu is enough against espada' .

And I think Grimmjow would jump on Hidan because he might be annoyedof his talking . If I remember corectly he was pretty annoying with his 'rituals' .

Perhaps Zetsu and Stark can take it easy an not fight ?

Then Baragan would see them , be annoyed and kill both ....

--

But seriously , Konan and Halibel could fight eachother . I think Halibel's water atacks might have the advantage . But Konan didn't fight much so I don't really know how powerful she may be .

Hmm . Also a posibility . And Kisame might use his special sword to absorb the strenght of Halibel's atacks ... IF it can absorb the reiatsu... but let's not think about it too much.

If you think about it , eachoters atacks can be re-used against the other. That wouuld make a pretty interesting fight. I think they would change the whole terrain into an 'ocean' after a while .

Hmm . Also a posibility . And Kisame might use his special sword to absorb the strenght of Halibel's atacks ... IF it can absorb the reiatsu... but let's not think about it too much.

If you think about it , eachoters atacks can be re-used against the other. That wouuld make a pretty interesting fight. I think they would change the whole terrain into an 'ocean' after a while .

optimuserik

Exactly! Although I think Kisame's sword would have quite a chance of absorbing reiatsu, he'd have to get past Halibel's Tiburon. On top of that her Projectil Azure is an energy attack instead of a water attack, so Kisame can't redirect it or take control of it. Btw exactly how does Kisame's sword steal energy? I think it was from actually striking the opponent or maybe it was through their chakra too. Not sure though. :|

wow, very good job so far you two. keep it up.

anyone else have anything to add to this? :P

I pretty much forgot the detailed way of Kisame's sword . But here is what I remember:

The spikes can basically cut CHAKRA ( here is the problem that annoys me ) and also absorb it . So if he blocks an atack (chakra/reiatsu/whatever based ) it SHOULD be absorbed . Plus if it cuts the oponent , theyre 'energy' , actually just part of it will be absorbed and they will be weaker.

Regarding the re-using of water : I'm sure Halibel will be able to re-use all of Kisame's jutsu , but perhaps Kisame is at the disadvantage of needing hand signs and not all atacks he receives might be water style . ( exactly as you said before )

Anybody else that might have a nice fight with a decent oponent ?( that was not mentioned ... or at least with somebody else ? )