Why are there bibles in hotel rooms?

Not all hotels do (especially not after I've stayed in them!)

I think these people are largely to blame:

http://www.gideons.org/

I guess all the donations make for a lot of bibles.  

Not all hotels do (especially not after I've stayed in them!)

I think these people are largely to blame:

http://www.gideons.org/

I guess all the donations make for a lot of bibles.  

RationalAtheist

Maybe not all of them do, but I've yet to stay in a hotel that didn't. And I've been to quite a few hotels in just about every region of the country except Alaska and Hawaii. 

Anyway, it's interesting to see that an organization is behind this. I thought it was just some sort of custom that hotels in the US have.

I read a little about the gideons. I wonder why hotels allow this though. Very odd. I was tempted to throw the bible out because I found it offensive that I was subtley being targeted for conversion... but was afraid I would be charged by the hotel haha.

Perhaps I should start leaving copies of the Satanic bible in hotels to get some giggles? 

I read a little about the gideons. I wonder why hotels allow this though. Very odd. I was tempted to throw the bible out because I found it offensive that I was subtley being targeted for conversion... but was afraid I would be charged by the hotel haha.

Perhaps I should start leaving copies of the Satanic bible in hotels to get some giggles? 

lazyhoboguy

You should start leaving Darwin...at least then your offerings would be intellectually stimulating. 

They don't stop at hotels, or on land:

"Over the last year or so members of our Southampton branch have been busy stocking cruise ships with Bibles. They started by placing 1100 on each of the P&O cruise ships Adonia and Oceana, known as the White Sisters. These two ships made history last year by having the first ever simultaneous naming ceremony of cruise ships in the UK. Last Boxing Day, whilst the rest of us were getting over our Christmas dinners, they took over 2000 Bibles onto the new Queen Mary 2."

from here: http://www.gideons.org.uk/Gideons/recentnews.asp )

>They say they also "do" canal boats too.

As a regular canal boater, I have never seen one on-board anything I've rented, but I do tend to go out of season, when the bibles are "safely stored elsewhere".

Ah so it's the gideons who distribute those Bibles. Good to know.

I don't really have a problem with it because the hotel guest isn't forced to pick it up and read it nor to convert to Christianity. And besides that, everyone should have at least some contact with the Bible. Whether or not you believe the dogma behind it it's an important peice in the history of literature and culture and it deserves to be known about just as much (well maybe a little less than) the works of Homer.

I do kind of have a problem with the distribution of Bibles in hospital though. Last year my ex girlfriend attempted suicide and after it all she was carted off to the hospital in a very fragile state of mind. While she was in the hospital she was left with a Bible from one of the nurses telling her that there is hope and that she should start reading at the book of John. Now of course the Bible was given with nothing but kind intentions behind it and ultimately it was a very nice thing to do. It just seemed a little insidious to me that it was targeted at someone whose state of mind was less than normal at the time, as if her being vulnerable would increase the likelihodd that she'd accept what she read.

I probably wouldn't want people to stop distributing Bibles in hospitals but yeah, I can't shake off a bad vibe from it.

It just seemed a little insidious to me that it was targeted at someone whose state of mind was less than normal at the time, as if her being vulnerable would increase the likelihodd that she'd accept what she read.

domatron23

If you think that's insidious, you should know what potentially recovering alcoholics have to go through at the AA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program#Twelve_Steps

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

It just seemed a little insidious to me that it was targeted at someone whose state of mind was less than normal at the time, as if her being vulnerable would increase the likelihodd that she'd accept what she read.

RationalAtheist

If you think that's insidious, you should know what potentially recovering alcoholics have to go through at the AA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program#Twelve_Steps

What the ****! THOSE are the twelve steps?

Gee wiz I thought they were about... well something else other than submitting yourself to God.

I had to stay in a hotel last night and found a bible in the drawer. I have heard that all hotels have one. Umm... why?lazyhoboguy

I do kind of have a problem with the distribution of Bibles in hospital though. Last year my ex girlfriend attempted suicide and after it all she was carted off to the hospital in a very fragile state of mind. While she was in the hospital she was left with a Bible from one of the nurses telling her that there is hope and that she should start reading at the book of John. Now of course the Bible was given with nothing but kind intentions behind it and ultimately it was a very nice thing to do. It just seemed a little insidious to me that it was targeted at someone whose state of mind was less than normal at the time, as if her being vulnerable would increase the likelihodd that she'd accept what she read.

I probably wouldn't want people to stop distributing Bibles in hospitals but yeah, I can't shake off a bad vibe from it.

domatron23

The reality of atheism is a much darker one and I think it requires a more stronger character to still want to live in times of despair.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

I do kind of have a problem with the distribution of Bibles in hospital though. Last year my ex girlfriend attempted suicide and after it all she was carted off to the hospital in a very fragile state of mind. While she was in the hospital she was left with a Bible from one of the nurses telling her that there is hope and that she should start reading at the book of John. Now of course the Bible was given with nothing but kind intentions behind it and ultimately it was a very nice thing to do. It just seemed a little insidious to me that it was targeted at someone whose state of mind was less than normal at the time, as if her being vulnerable would increase the likelihodd that she'd accept what she read.

I probably wouldn't want people to stop distributing Bibles in hospitals but yeah, I can't shake off a bad vibe from it.

Gambler_3

The reality of atheism is a much darker one and I think it requires a more stronger character to still want to live in times of despair.

I personally don't see how the reality of atheism is so dark and depressing. I've been an atheist for around ten years now,  and I have never woke up in the morning thinking to myself that I'd be a much happier person if I started believing in a higher power. My lack of religeous beliefs has been very enlightening in fact. As far as I know, even Christians(example) get depressed and try to kill themselves. The worst part is that they have become depressed to the point that the threat of eternal damnation(the punishment for suicide) is not enough to keep them from killing themselves. If Christians can become that depressed, where is their faith then? How has their faith been uplifting? Religion is a very dark subject matter itself. Two of the members of the Satanic metal band Marduk are obsessed with the bible, to the point that they named one of their Cd's Rom 5:12, refering to Romans chapter 5, verse 12. ("Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.") They read the bible with the intention of finding the most horrible and dark things contained within. There is darkness all around, faith doesn't abate it, it just serves as an outlet if you use it correctly. 

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

I do kind of have a problem with the distribution of Bibles in hospital though. Last year my ex girlfriend attempted suicide and after it all she was carted off to the hospital in a very fragile state of mind. While she was in the hospital she was left with a Bible from one of the nurses telling her that there is hope and that she should start reading at the book of John. Now of course the Bible was given with nothing but kind intentions behind it and ultimately it was a very nice thing to do. It just seemed a little insidious to me that it was targeted at someone whose state of mind was less than normal at the time, as if her being vulnerable would increase the likelihodd that she'd accept what she read.

I probably wouldn't want people to stop distributing Bibles in hospitals but yeah, I can't shake off a bad vibe from it.

Mtngranek

The reality of atheism is a much darker one and I think it requires a more stronger character to still want to live in times of despair.

I personally don't see how the reality of atheism is so dark and depressing. I've been an atheist for around ten years now,  and I have never woke up in the morning thinking to myself that I'd be a much happier person if I started believing in a higher power. My lack of religeous beliefs has been very enlightening in fact. As far as I know, even Christians(example) get depressed and try to kill themselves. The worst part is that they have become depressed to the point that the threat of eternal damnation(the punishment for suicide) is not enough to keep them from killing themselves. If Christians can become that depressed, where is their faith then? How has their faith been uplifting? Religion is a very dark subject matter itself. Two of the members of the Satanic metal band Marduk are obsessed with the bible, to the point that they named one of their Cd's Rom 5:12, refering to Romans chapter 5, verse 12. ("Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.") They read the bible with the intention of finding the most horrible and dark things contained within. There is darkness all around, faith doesn't abate it, it just serves as an outlet if you use it correctly. 

I was simply taking the belief in an eternal soul to be the base here. Also a promise of heaven can be very comforting indeed. The problem that comes is that practically it is very difficult to strongly believe in these things especially in times of extreme despair when you only see tha pain and god doesnt show up.

It is far better that she accepts what she read if that makes her not commit suicide....

The reality of atheism is a much darker one and I think it requires a more stronger character to still want to live in times of despair.

Gambler_3

I do agree with you Gambler, that's why I wouldn't want people to stop distributing Bibles in hospitals. As for the reality of Atheism, yes I can fully understand why people would find it darker than the percieved reality of theism. That, ultimately, is why I find religion to be a good thing on the whole.

I think I remember Dawkins saying something in the God Delusion about how that kind of view (oh the poor unwashed masses need their religion and false hope, but I'm okay to sit here in my superior bubble of rationality and truth) is a load of condescending rubbish. It actually brings up a good point. You might ask a religious person "If you could know that God was not real would you want to?" but you can just as easily ask an atheist "If you could prove to others that God was not real would you want to?"

For myself I value the truth no matter how ugly it might be but I'm not sure if I would push that kind of thinking on everyone else. What does everyone else think on that matter?

For myself I value the truth no matter how ugly it might be but I'm not sure if I would push that kind of thinking on everyone else. What does everyone else think on that matter?

domatron23

Normally I feel very strongly that truth is much better than fiction, however nice the fiction might be, because to do otherwise basically requires one to strain oneself mentally in a rather unhealthy manner whenever one is confronted with the truth.

With the topic of God and an afterlife and all that, though?  I don't know if that's true in that case, for the simple reason that if those things don't exist, then one will basically never be truly confronted with the truth, since they will be dead.

[QUOTE="lazyhoboguy"]I had to stay in a hotel last night and found a bible in the drawer. I have heard that all hotels have one. Umm... why?Gambler_3

Well, I wanted to know why. What is wrong with that. They don't magically appear in hotels by themselves. Hotels are not churches.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

For myself I value the truth no matter how ugly it might be but I'm not sure if I would push that kind of thinking on everyone else. What does everyone else think on that matter?

GabuEx

Normally I feel very strongly that truth is much better than fiction, however nice the fiction might be, because to do otherwise basically requires one to strain oneself mentally in a rather unhealthy manner whenever one is confronted with the truth.

With the topic of God and an afterlife and all that, though?  I don't know if that's true in that case, for the simple reason that if those things don't exist, then one will basically never be truly confronted with the truth, since they will be dead.

The way I see it, none of us really know the truth about the existence of a god or afterlife, so we cannot claim to know the truth and ram our beliefs down others throats. Sure, we may really think we are right, but there is the small chance that we aren't. So personally, I don't bring up religion or my atheism to people unless they bring it up first. I feel no need to try converting people to my belief system.

You might ask a religious person "If you could know that God was not real would you want to?" but you can just as easily ask an atheist "If you could prove to others that God was not real would you want to?"

For myself I value the truth no matter how ugly it might be but I'm not sure if I would push that kind of thinking on everyone else. What does everyone else think on that matter?

domatron23

The reverse of those questions about God is the current reality though: i.e. "If you could know that God is real, would you want to?" and "if you could prove to others that God is real...?" seem like evangelical mission callings.

I think I push my own atheist agenda here, since religion does tend to be forced on us and their religious truths do seem "ugly" to me. I'm not sure how many unwashed masses stay in hotel rooms - typically, they are the domain of educated execs. My own remit here is as a responder to religious threads. If there was no discussion on religion, I wouldn't respond here anymore as RA. I don't expect others to believe my opinion, but do hope that some people may try further defining their opinions, based on rational evidence I present. Rejecting it out of hand is enough for me; as long as they know it exists, hopefully gnawing away in the back of their minds.

Not that I am saying I can prove anything - I'm saying religion offers no proof when religion claims to do so. The reluctance of many strict religious adherents to debate over their beliefs is evidence enough of thought suppression for me. Their arguments that support scripture's morals, origins, promises and threats are old ideas they cling to.

Personally, I do find religious conversion PMs (I've had a few), threads expounding the glory of religion, bibles placed conveniently, and AA "cures" quite offensive. And I have every right to be offended, just as they have every right to cause offence (within GS limits). I'm offended, since I believe there are far better ways to help the sick and needy, aside from faith alone.

In answer to the question "If you could prove to others that God was not real would you want to?", I would have to answer yes. Similarly, if in my quest for the truth(that's what I'm looking for here) if I found that I could prove to others that god was real(using rationality and science) I would do so also. I'm not an atheist because I hate god or think that religion is evil(however evil it may be) or what have you. I'm an atheist because I'm searching for the truth. In my eyes, the truth of the universe is that god does not exist, but because of the laws of nature, certain things are predetermined. If I throw a rock up in the air, will it not come back down and hit me in the face? This is predetermined by gravity. The same way that creation was predetermined by the laws of nature. I read an excellent peice by Asimov about the creation of the universe...I wish I could remember what I did with it so I could reccomend it.

I can see how proof of the non-existance of god would cause turmoil on a grand scale, but I have two answers to this.

1. The believers are so deluded in their beliefs that even with unequivocal proof, they will still claim that you are wrong.(this is what they've been doing for years anyway)

2. Darwin challenged one of the most holy of ideas, the creation. In his day people flat out refused to believe him, and his ideas caused an upheval in the church. However, Evolution is the most commonly believed idea for creation now.  Sure there are still some who do not believe, but it is the most accredited now. 

I believe that most people would come to see the truth, whatever that may be, but it will take a long time, and at first people will refuse.