UK Muslim schools teach anti-Jewish lessons and stoning g-y men

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RationalAtheist

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#1 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

An episode of Panorama (a flagship current affairs program) is being screened tonight on BBC1 (at 2030GMT - and on BBC iPlayer where available, then probably YouTube, etc.)

Panorama 

The program exposes more than 40 Islamic schools and clubs in Britain that are funded by the Saudi government. These education centres teach 5000 students and use the official Saudi national curriculum and resources as their basis for study. There have been problems with this organisation in the UK before (three years ago) for teaching the same sort of things to British Muslim school children.

This program was the result of an under-cover operation to retrieve text books used at the schools. Extracts from the BBC article I linked to explain how Islamic text books teach children the following stuff:  

"One of the text books asks children to list the "reprehensible" qualities of Jewish people. A text for younger children asks what happens to someone who dies who is not a believer in Islam - the answer given in the text book is "hellfire".

Another text describes the punishment for gay sex as death and states a difference of opinion about whether it should be carried out by stoning, burning with fire or throwing the person over a cliff.

In a book for 14-year-olds, Sharia law and its punishment for theft are explained, including detailed diagrams about how hands and feet of thieves are amputated."

I hope people get to see it.

 

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michaelP4

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#2 michaelP4
Member since 2004 • 16681 Posts
Yes, I plan to watch this tonight. The things you have listed there are really not a surprise to me. The issue of the educational material being used by some of these Islamic faith schools has been brought into question many times, such as in Richard Dawkins' Faith School Menace?, that was shown on More 4 a few months ago. I think it's unbelievable that the excuse, "taken out of context", is used to justify teaching hatred to the children of these schools. The children will undoubtedly develop anti-Western and Islamist values later on in their lives, which will only further isolate Muslims from mainstream society. However, that is all I'll say for now. I will probably be back later to post my thoughts on this programme after watching it. I just hope that it will show moderate Muslims condemning everything that is wrong with the educational material, including the homophobia expressed in it, as I've noticed that quite a number of moderate Muslims often like to sidestep the issue of homosexuality. While it may be not be discussed much in their own communities, to truly live in a peaceful society, every reasonable group must be included in it and are able to get along with each other.
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gameguy6700

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#3 gameguy6700
Member since 2004 • 12197 Posts

What's up with the BBC's obsession as of late in running these exposes on the British muslim community? I know that Dispatches alone has had at least three shows on such topics in the past two years (one on how Muslims are secretly trying to take over parliament, one on muslim faith schools, and one on how muslims are threatening ex-muslims who converted to Christianity), and that's just what I could find with a quick youtube search.

Then again, this anti-Islamic sentiment seems to be really common in all of Western Europe, far more so than even in America which is really saying something considering that it's America that's been taking the brunt of most terrorist attacks (attempted and successful) for the past few decades.

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fat_rob

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#4 fat_rob
Member since 2003 • 22624 Posts
Is it really "anti-Islamic" if the accusations levied by BBC are accurate? Like, if the schools are truly teaching this stuff in the manner BBC says they are, then I don't see a problem with the program ...
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RationalAtheist

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#5 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

What's up with the BBC's obsession as of late in running these exposes on the British muslim community? I know that Dispatches alone has had at least three shows on such topics in the past two years (one on how Muslims are secretly trying to take over parliament, one on muslim faith schools, and one on how muslims are threatening ex-muslims who converted to Christianity), and that's just what I could find with a quick youtube search.

Then again, this anti-Islamic sentiment seems to be really common in all of Western Europe, far more so than even in America which is really saying something considering that it's America that's been taking the brunt of most terrorist attacks (attempted and successful) for the past few decades.

gameguy6700

So rather than debate the accusations, you prefer to shout "obsession" and complain about being picked on? Why can't the Muslim community integrate more with the British community? I think the interest in Islamic beliefs is healthy and it is correct to question some of the dodgier beliefs in that faith openly.

I think these are valid opinions and would find them hard to defend if I were Muslim, since they are clearly stated many times in the Quran. One thing about this particular BBC documentary was the secrecy over the text books and denial from their source about their distribution. 

I also think you are wrong about the "most" terrorist attacks. Perhaps you should do some research on the terrorism in the UK and Ireland - that reached a peak of attacks in the 1970s and 1980s. That one had some religious motivation too.

Why can't everyone be taught the same things in school - and leave religious piety out of it? That way, individual families can decide on how to indoctrinate their own children, while school would give all children a broad-spectrum delivery of all the faiths and beliefs of the world - past and present.

 

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gameguy6700

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#6 gameguy6700
Member since 2004 • 12197 Posts
[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

What's up with the BBC's obsession as of late in running these exposes on the British muslim community? I know that Dispatches alone has had at least three shows on such topics in the past two years (one on how Muslims are secretly trying to take over parliament, one on muslim faith schools, and one on how muslims are threatening ex-muslims who converted to Christianity), and that's just what I could find with a quick youtube search.

Then again, this anti-Islamic sentiment seems to be really common in all of Western Europe, far more so than even in America which is really saying something considering that it's America that's been taking the brunt of most terrorist attacks (attempted and successful) for the past few decades.

RationalAtheist

So rather than debate the accusations, you prefer to shout "obsession" and complain about being picked on? Why can't the Muslim community integrate more with the British community? I think the interest in Islamic beliefs is healthy and it is correct to question some of the dodgier beliefs in that faith openly.

I think these are valid opinions and would find them hard to defend if I were Muslim, since they are clearly stated many times in the Quran. One thing about this particular BBC documentary was the secrecy over the text books and denial from their source about their distribution.

I also think you are wrong about the "most" terrorist attacks. Perhaps you should do some research on the terrorism in the UK and Ireland - that reached a peak of attacks in the 1970s and 1980s. That one had some religious motivation too.

Why can't everyone be taught the same things in school - and leave religious piety out of it? That way, individual families can decide on how to indoctrinate their own children, while school would give all children a broad-spectrum delivery of all the faiths and beliefs of the world - past and present.

I should have been more clear when I said "terrorist attacks". I mean terror attacks by Islamic fundamentalist groups like Al Qaeda, not terrorist attacks in general which would include things like The Troubles. Also, I'm not saying I condone what's being stated in this program. I'm not a fan of faith schools (especially Britain's particular form of state-funded faith schools) nor am I a fan of religious indoctrination, but I think this program is a symptom of a larger problem.

There's a difference between making accusations with an intent to bring up debate and making accusations in an attempt to demonize a group of people. I'm not saying that this program in particular is the issue. Rather, it's the general sentiment held in Europe that Muslim immigrants are in their countries in an attempt to subvert Western civillization, implement Sharia law, and force everyone to convert to Islam. While this documentary isn't so bad, I've seen others where the accusations made could have been made about any group of people and yet the documentaries in question acted as if these were things that only Muslims did.

For example, there was one documentary (from Dispatches I believe) that investigated how Muslims were trying to get more Muslims into parliament and influence other politicians. While I have no doubt that it was true, that's because EVERY GROUP (especially religious groups) does that. That's how politics works. In another documentary, this time from Germany, it talked about how Muslim students are disrupting classes and bringing down Aryan students with their lazy work ethic and hostility towards authority.

What's next, a Western European country with a far right wing political party whose main platform is the restoration of their country to it's former Imperial glory by means of getting rid of all non-natives and "undesirables" through force, with a particular emphasis on a single religious ethnic minority?

Oh wait...nevermind.

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RationalAtheist

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#7 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

I should have been more clear when I said "terrorist attacks". I mean terror attacks by Islamic fundamentalist groups like Al Qaeda, not terrorist attacks in general which would include things like The Troubles. Also, I'm not saying I condone what's being stated in this program. I'm not a fan of faith schools (especially Britain's particular form of state-funded faith schools) nor am I a fan of religious indoctrination, but I think this program is a symptom of a larger problem.

There's a difference between making accusations with an intent to bring up debate and making accusations in an attempt to demonize a group of people. I'm not saying that this program in particular is the issue. Rather, it's the general sentiment held in Europe that Muslim immigrants are in their countries in an attempt to subvert Western civillization, implement Sharia law, and force everyone to convert to Islam. While this documentary isn't so bad, I've seen others where the accusations made could have been made about any group of people and yet the documentaries in question acted as if these were things that only Muslims did.

gameguy6700

I agree with your statement of difference. But I'd say that the accusations are fair. The demonisation occurs because there is no real response from a moderate Islamic community in the UK. The great thing about this country is that we are allowed to use fair criticism and open debate. I think the problem is the lack of suitable response here. I feel I know why this is, with representative organisations such as the Islamic Sharia Council of Britain (condoning rape within marriage), or the MCB. Is there an argument that these teachings are wrong, or is it that they should be allowed?

 

For example, there was one documentary (from Dispatches I believe) that investigated how Muslims were trying to get more Muslims into parliament and influence other politicians. While I have no doubt that it was true, that's because EVERY GROUP (especially religious groups) does that. That's how politics works. In another documentary, this time from Germany, it talked about how Muslim students are disrupting ****s and bringing down Aryan students with their lazy work ethic and hostility towards authority.

gameguy6700

There was another one about student radicalisation at the UCL and the consequent cover-up. The problem with Islam and politics is the conflict between democracy and Sharia. 

 

What's next, a Western European country with a far right wing political party whose main platform is the restoration of their country to it's former Imperial glory by means of getting rid of all non-natives and "undesirables" through force, with a particular emphasis on a single religious ethnic minority?

Oh wait...nevermind.

gameguy6700

What about these poppy-burning Islamists from a few days ago?

poppy burning idiots 

Where does your paranoia about imperialism come from? 

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ghoklebutter

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#8 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
I can't even begin to express my hatred for this kind of indoctrination.
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#9 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30051 Posts

What's up with the BBC's obsession as of late in running these exposes on the British muslim community? I know that Dispatches alone has had at least three shows on such topics in the past two years (one on how Muslims are secretly trying to take over parliament, one on muslim faith schools, and one on how muslims are threatening ex-muslims who converted to Christianity), and that's just what I could find with a quick youtube search.

Then again, this anti-Islamic sentiment seems to be really common in all of Western Europe, far more so than even in America which is really saying something considering that it's America that's been taking the brunt of most terrorist attacks (attempted and successful) for the past few decades.

gameguy6700
What's wrong with pointing these things out?
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michaelP4

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#10 michaelP4
Member since 2004 • 16681 Posts
I watched the programme last night, and it was as I expected: the claims made were indeed true (as an Islamic professor confirmed what was said in the textbooks used to teach the children in the Islamic faith schools), the response to them from the schools were not helpful as they refused to acknowledge there was even an issue and there was no response to these comments from moderate Muslims... I live in Northern Ireland. I live in a segregated society divided by meaningless sectarianism. Although now days are no where near what it was like back years ago, any tourist in the country would tell you that they can feel the lasting divisions between the two main communities, evidenced by the existing murals, peace walls, armoured security vehicles, patrolling police men/women possessing firearms, occasional security checkpoints (as there are still groups of people that want to continue the violence) etc. and it would be disastrous if these sectarian divisions were to be secured in parts of the UK, or even in Europe and the USA. If the clearly inappropriate text in the textbooks are not addressed and are allowed to continue to be used, all it will result in is violence and isolation of communities in the Western world, which would be very dangerous considering just how poor international relations are with Islamic countries such as Iran. I think the BBC and Channel 4 have done a good job exposing the provocative text. The only question is whether the government will do anything about it or not, in which, I don't have much confidence in, seeing as how this is not a newly discovered issue...